Re: Brexit (New).
 

It’s an interpretation of Brexit, one of only two on the table, and one I can live with just to move the whole sorry show onto the next phase.

However, if parliament still refuse to back it, god knows what’ll happen.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Since her speech This petition has grown by over 350,000 signatures. It was only started a month ago.

Re: Brexit(New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It won’t be considered for debate for 6 months, so ...

Re: Brexit (New).
 

This is actually quite a good stance. While nobody voted for the May deal it’s a reasonable compromise nobody is truly happy with but it’s not remaining and not leaving on WTO terms. It moves things forwards and reduces uncertainty.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

And I remember a petition the day after June 23rd, 2016, to stop Brexit, that one reached 4 million, it was rightfully ignored.

And there is going to be a completely pointless, Million march Sat in the London bubble yet agai, yawn, to oppose Brexit. When will people learn, marches don’t work. NHS, Miners strike, Iraq war, they don’t work?!?!?!

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Over 1/2 a million now ..

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It’s not my fault, or that of anyone who voted remain, that Cameron’s arrogance in not believing he would lose has left no clear Brexit option.

There should have been a second question or referendum the week after to clarify which is the preferred model.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

This is nor Brexit, it's the Withdrawal Agreement now. Leavers should save their energy for the trade agreement not the warm up gig

Re: Brexit (New).
 

This is a part of Brexit, i think you're splitting hairs here.

People wanting to remain will do what they can within the legal limits* at every point in the process.

*Obviously there may be one or two idiots, the above is not attempting to paint all remainers as angels

Re: Brexit (New).
 

They don't work.

I do think they allow people to vent their frustration though. The Iraq War one is an example because 15 years on people still remember that march. It won't change the result next week but they'll hope it's big enough for it to be remembered and noted when people look back on this time.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Just seen this remark on Twitter, sums up this petition/march farce quite nicely:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Whether one agrees with them or not they are entitled to march as this is a free country at the end of the day..

Re: Brexit (New).
 

That kind of inflammatory language from the Twitter poster is not conducive to constructive debate.

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 ----------

Depends what their objectives are. In the case of the Iraq War, it was successful in showing to the rest of the World that a lot of the country did not support the Government's position.
In the case of the People's Vote, it will act as reminder to the Government that there's more out there to placate than just the ERG and DUP. And if they're well organized and strong on PR then even more so.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Never said they were not entitled, it’s just a pointless foot stamping process, last chance saloon for Remainers to get their voices heard and I don’t doubt it will probably be over a million, it’s just not a way we measure true democracy, that is done at the ballot box.

Anyway, in just 8 days... we are either going to accept May’s deal and leave EU after short extension...(very unlikely) or...

...Reject May’s deal and leave EU on 29th, no deal. (Highly likely)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The argument for Brexit has been won and the Withdrawal Agreement reflects this. The argument for the form of Brexit has not. That's why the ERG and DUP need to support this agreement and then make their case during trade negotiations. If they supported it, most Tory MPs would too. They are the log jam through an obsession with s clean Brexit, not Remainers.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I think the People's Vote campaign should pivot into what comes next instead. There is still the withdrawal agreement and the transition period that comes with it to influence, we leave the EU but then comes the battle to decide what the future relationship with the EU will actually be. Obviously they'll have to change the name....

Re: Brexit (New).
 

These remainers do like a good day out waving bits of cardboard around.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

A touch antagonistic i think.

Must be the lack of pies in the diet you're not normally like this ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Lost 1 stone in two weeks;)

I think i was just as acerbic about the last cardboard waving day ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I keep wondering why the EU insists on a NI backstop, when the reverse situation will exist even with the Withdrawal Agreement. EG Turkey is in a Customs Union with the EU, once we leave the EU, we are no longer in a customs union with Turkey. We have to apply tariffs to Turkish goods. How do we do that?

EU-Turkey Customs Union
And of course under the Withdrawal Agreement we can't come to an agreement with Turkey or anybody else until the EU gives us permission.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I don't think Turkish trade is something to get all fretful over:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Unfortunately, i don't think it will change anything but

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47652071

being signed by 40,000 people an hour is some going and it crashed the site too :D

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Interestingly, I’ve just seen claims other Countries are able to sign that petition, thought this wasn’t possible.

The map of counties that have signed looks very odd.

I sense foul play with it, if all you need is a UK address and an email address to verify.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Is it Russian interference ?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I suspect that there's probably a small percentage of foul play (as there would be with most high profile petitions of this nature) but not widespread.


I was about to say that i'm fairly sure they would have mechanisms in place to detect abuse but really, who knows !! :)

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------


Surely that would take it too minus votes ? :D

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Well from what I saw in the claim, various folk in Russia, have actually signed it. Many in Saudi Arabia.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Wouldn't surprise me if the Kremlin had funded the march as well as influenced the petition.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Such wild conspiracy theories...;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Nothing new about Russia [old soviet union] trying to subvert western democracy.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

You actually see a breakdown by country in the JSON code it's sending down to the map.

UK: 804,469
USA: 2,408
Russia: 15

at the time of writing the total signed is: 838,456 so 33,987 have signed it from outside the UK, or 4%.

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

16 in Saudi Arabia

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Let's not forget how clever these Russian hackers are at manipulating figures to make themselves look innocent.

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Leader of the house says if petition reaches 17 million someone may take notice.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

no only thing kremlin founded was the leave campaign hope that helps

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Thank's for that comrade.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

They may have funded something else too; investigation continues across the pond ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

yes ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

She's off to Brussels now with the begging bowl.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1553174860

Probably get as much as Oliver did. :erm:

Attachment 27798

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Oh yes the one started by a leaver who thought the referendum would go the other way and couldn't accept the result, much like uncle Nigel who thought it reasonable to go again if it finished 48-52

Re: Brexit (New).
 

there's nothing as bitter as an ex UKIP activist .

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Emmanuel Macron: "In the case of a negative vote in the British Parliament, we will be going to a no-deal, we all know that.

"It is absolutely essential to be clear in these days and these moments, because it is a matter of the good functioning of the EU.

"We cannot have what I would call an excessive extension which would harm our capacity to decision and to act.”

Reported here at 2.30pm: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-47614151

Just in case anyone still thinks they can see a hint of anyone failing to rule out a long delay. Unanimity is required for any extension to be granted. Macron will agree to a short technical extension to allow the WA to be implemented, but if Parliament rejects it again, there will be a No Deal Brexit.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Time to start panic buying those pot noodles ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Probably. I think at least one EU leader would veto it for domestic reasons. Although Remainers will be banking, hoping, they will reconsider if it was between that and no deal. After all ideally the EU want May's deal to pass.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Enough!!! - sick of silly accusations like this - it did no such thing to the extent that there there is any evidence it actually manipulated people's influence to vote leave - people in UK do have their own minds you know, you will do anything to invalidate a decision you do not agree with it - it's pathetic.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

You are so wrong, Andrew. None of the other ideas put forward actually amount to leaving the EU, a point which remainers continually don't get. The 'red lines' Corbyn wants to dismantle relate to the very reasons leavers voted to leave (not accepting free movement, etc). There is only one form of Brexit ( a no-deal) or Withdrawal Agreement first, then Brexit.

It is, in the end, a binary choice, much as remainers don't like it.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I think their primary objective is to get May’s deal to pass. However their secondary objective is clearly to get Brexit over with. All this talk of lengthy extensions is absurd. It isn’t going to happen. The EU wants this over and done with and over the last 36 hours they really couldn’t have been any clearer.

Whether or not the WA is debated, and passed, next week now depends on whether remainer MPs still want to believe they are being bluffed. If they think the threat of No Deal occurring next week is real, they will either support the WA or abstain. If they think it’s a bluff they will vote it down again. If they do that, I am convinced they will bring about No Deal and I further believe that this will be weaponised against them come the next election. Interesting times ahead.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

What if we switched the national language to French in exchange for zero-tariff trade with France?

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:01 ----------

I agree it's just that I absolutely think the Remainer MPs believe they are bluffing and there is just about enough ambiguity in some of the statements to allow them to believe even if they're looking too much into it.

If I had to bet. We're leaving next Friday.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Surely it’s more cost effective to give them some fish?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

As long as it's after my skiing holiday in hell;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I agree.

There have been too many twists and turns and Teresa May has given herself a reputation for indecision that historians will marvel at a century from now. Add to that the huge remain majority in the Commons, the Westminster Bubble effect and a dash of wishful thinking and it isn’t hard to see how they could be about to make a serious miscalculation.

As Papa Smurf says, if you’re partial to a Pot Noodle, now might be a good time to make sure your cupboard is stocked ...

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I think we can make that work. You see, we're finally finding a Brexit consensus in the country.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I'm late to the party again . . too much work, not enough play :D

anyway, returning to this for a minute

It has now reached over 1 million signatures, which sounds quite impressive until you look closely at the map that goes with it: https://petitionmap.unboxedconsultin...etition=241584 and then you see that even in the areas with the highest concentration of signatures (Bristol West for example) there are almost 7,000 signatures . . a whopping 5.33% of the 130,187 constituents. The vast majority of the map has signatures from between 1% & 2% of the constituents.

I think there's a fair way to go before the signatures reach anywhere near the 52% mark ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The Revoke Art 50 Petition has surpassed a million signatories in very short time thanks to the Media helping it go viral. (I also suspect dubious processes are in play here also).

As usual, London bubble very heavy in favour of revoking according to the map, not that my response would be, when it passes 17.4 Million, we should care but should it ever do (very unlikely), perhaps we should demand a second petition, fair is fair right? :rofl:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Dunno you come close, tbh I've never had a problem with uncle nige, it was the rest of them and it still is the rest of them, I see the leader of the new party he's associated with has had to stand down for being rather unpleasant. One thing I did I want to ask him though is if he was aware what his name meant in Latin

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Well why wait until then? You can have as many petitions as you want on the site. :tu:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

We can call it the peoples petition.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I have lots of wine stocked up so all good.

By the way when I was talking about the Tories getting the blame largely for this this poll suggests that's currently what'll happen:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/loc...03/1.png:small

Labour will come out better than the Tories but The Liberal Democrats and the SNP will largely be unharmed IMO. Obviously how people perceive the actual vote might changes things but I don't think radically so. This is why I think no deal = Corbyn (and why he is letting it happen essentially).

Re: Brexit (New).
 

So not only can people who don't live in UK sign it, it can be signed multiple times

https://twitter.com/Latinogar/status...46898968588290

:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

That attribution of blame table is why rescinding (via 2nd ref) is in the long term more likely than no deal.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I was always under the impression that the 'blame culture' was a thing of the past, however when things start to look a little sticky I presume finger pointing is the way forward :rolleyes:

I don't mind if everyone wants to blame me, just give me £200,000 and I'll take the hit for whoever needs a scapegoat :D

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Anyone after a second referendum (as long as remain wins). This way Government/Parliament/(insert party) can spread the blame with the electorate.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

BREAKING: EU summit draft conclusions say the European Union can agree an extension to Article 50 until 22 May on the condition that Theresa May's withdrawal agreement is approved by Parliament next week. Source: Sky News.

No deal Brexit it is then.

They better get their skates on then, they have a week to get it all set up.

But No - not anyone, Article 50 can only be revoked by Royal Prerogative Powers and that can only be done via the Prime Minister and in some cases, members of Cabinet, I doubt they will do so without the consent of the PM or Her Majesty, the Queen. They could hold a vote in Parliament next week, but the PM is within her right to ignore the request, if they vote to do so.

We already had a referendum in 2016, leave won. There will not be another second referendum and Parliament rejected that last week.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It only got rejected once, which is once less than May's deal so far.

You seem to be assuming things will remain at present, and ignore the possibility circumstances and events will intervene. Once the panic sets in next week it'll all change. We've played our cards, the EU didn't blink as expected. We did. We don't have the required legislation in place for no deal on March 29th, and the EU aren't going to force us out unnecessarily if it's in their interests. Remember, they've £39bn at stake as the Brexiteers like to remind us.

Politicians don't want the blame for this, they'll take the easy way out as always. If the Farage march is anything to go by the numbers that'll be upset will be infinitesimally small.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The legislation is already legislated and passed in to law, what part of that do you not understand?

The law states, we leave the EU on 29th March, deal or no deal.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

No it doesn't. That's your interpretation of the law. However the EU Withdrawal Act would only leave us in the EU, and in breach of treaty obligations, if there's an extension and it's not amended.

It's a virtual certainty we will be in the European Union on the 30th March either way.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

At present there is no extention and no need for amendment. As it stands we leave on 29th as per A50.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Yet we need an extension to facilitate the Government's deal to pass the necessary legislation. If May's deal get's voted down we are still in the same position - with gaps in legislation.

I agree - if literally nobody took any action between now and 29th March - we would leave the EU. There's zero chance of that happening because politicians will not want to live with the consequences.

No deal will leave us with a long extension. The EU are only avoiding saying this to help May get her deal passed so we can get the deal they want backstop and all.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

May's deal will not pass - she pretty much sealed it's fate last night when she attacked and blamed them (MPs), rather than herself.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The EU are not interested in the UK government not having legislation in place.
It is not in their remit nor any of their business and will not permit an extention on that basis.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

They're interested in the £350m a week we pay in though?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Now you believe in the £350,000,000 -that bus has driven off;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Because the politicians dithered and dallied about, trying to play mind games with each other to avoid having to make a decision . . which leads us to

No matter what the eventual outcome, politicians will be blamed for it . . and I doubt that any one of them will escape some kind of backlash from Joe public.

From the top to the bottom, they've all played a part to some degree

Re: Brexit (New).
 

BREAKING: UK military has activated team in a nuclear bunker under the @DefenceHQ main building to step up preparations for a no-deal Brexit, @SkyNews can reveal.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Nice of the UK Government to finally prepare.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Are they really expecting nuclear war? I know the EU are rightly upset with us, but that's a bit harsh of them ! :D

Re: Brexit (New).
 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-mi...-deal-11671941


Brexit: Military steps up no-deal planning from Whitehall bunker
Operation Redfold will direct some 3,500 military personnel who have been put on standby for a no-deal scenario.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Just need rationing, powdered egg, return of the Home Guard, a few songs by Vera Lynn and Brexiteers will be in dreamland !

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Cough... and an empire.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Get on that allotment and dig for victory:)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

BREAKING: Financial Times now reporting, Theresa May is willing to accept a No Deal Brexit:

https://www.ft.com/content/c1bb68fa-...9-6917dce3dc62

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Cue remainers:- "But parliament voted against no deal".

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Indeed, but the vote was not legally binding, what's in the Statute Book is. :)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Embarrassing.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I do know that Mick.;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

We are all forgetting the golden rule if Theresa says something the opposite is equally as likely to be true.

“One Eurosceptic Conservative MP seeking an honour at New Year said”.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Good choice of reading material. :)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

We'll all know in 8 days.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

LATEST FROM BRUSSELS: EU27 leaders are now discussing a #Brexit extension that ends on 7th May, whether the deal passes or not. Macron playing a big role, apparently.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Bloomberg reporting EU to push for 9 month extension if deal fails.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-brexit-update

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Interesting.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

That said Twitter is offering 27 different opinions from the summit. This is it boys the hegemonic perfidious European Union are blinking!

Re: Brexit (New).
 

And watch this be with conditions attached, like an extra £5 Billion added to divorce bill. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The sunlit uplands are in sight...

Re: Brexit (New).
 

But Chris, Parliament voted against a “no deal” Brexit, so i’m Sure we’ll be fine.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The EU are now backtracking on prior draft extension conditions that they attached earlier today. We have them spooked on no deal.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Well it is because we wouldn’t be able to enact the legislation to leave in time now. But if the WA is agreed we will be in the EU in name only.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It requires the Government to exercise it’s Royal Perogative too. If they ask for an extension the fact our law would be full of holes is irrelevant. We’d be in until Government and the EU agree otherwise.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Good, every other MP should get ready to accept it too, because if they don’t vote for the WA it’s out of their hands and that’s probably what they’ll get.

Re: Brexit (New).