Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

So to stand on its own 2 feet that would mean the BBC advertising and an end to programming that doesn't make a profit?? It would just become ITV/Sky or any of the other rubbish channels, of which we have hundreds. More down market reality TV, less quality drama and documentaries.
It's not just 2 channels either it's several channels, plus it's radio, local and national, and the website. All provided without advertising, it would be hard to totally avoid using it. It comes out at about £12 a month, compared to Sky/VM it's a bargain, many of their channels are just repeating BBC content.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Sorry Dave.:td::td::td::td:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

BBC already has far too much reality tv - so changing to an ITV type model shouldn't have any effect on that. Take your point re adverts, however as I always watch recordings of programs they don't bother me that much - just FF through them.

Point re £12 pm - even if you only watch sky which you pay for, you still have to pay the license fee - I am seriously surprised this hasn't been changed as it basically means BBC is state subsidised (is that legal within the EU?)

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

State subsidy isn't allowed within the EU, but that doesn't mean the BBC is breaking the law, it means that you're wrong to describe the Licence Fee as a state subsidy. There is no law against incorporating a body by royal charter and granting it legal authority to collect fees from all citizens who meet set criteria. Local government works in a not dissimilar way.

I wouldn't be totally averse to adverts on the BBC per se, so long as there was a strict cap on advertising minutes per hour. The problem as I see it is that there is a finite amount of advertising spend among the UK's consumer brands and if the BBC starts hoovering it up, it will put a lot of smaller channels out of business.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I just don't believe people realise how much they use the BBC. Do they never use the BBC website, apps, iPlayer, sport, weather, radio? All these have licence fee funding.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Its a bit more complicated than that. An article from 2015 but worth a read:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony...b_6790818.html

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Although I would not consider myself a big watcher of the BBC, I still consider the monthly fee good value for money.
IMO their Drama series are step ahead of most of the competition and most are worth a watch subject to taste.
I use a lot of BBC websites and sport coverage is very good considering they are priced out of many top sports.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Personally we think the licence fee represents good value when you look at the scope of what the BBC actually does but alas quite a few others disagree and that is their prerogative.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I was intrigued by the Telegraph's comment that VM was basically going to pirate a feed of ITV's channels into its cable network. Allegedly, of course.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

No, the argument is for a subscription rather than a licence fee.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

In theory wouldn't disagree with that as long as non subscribers are stopped from using any BBC services - TV, radio, website, apps, catch up -not sure how practical that is.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I do think that the vast majority of the public would subscribe voluntarily to the BBC for that very reason. A small minority would not pay because they did not wish to make use of any of the Beeb's services, but that is how it should be.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

And you think that will be cheaper? because its likely to be dearer IMO.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

It should be possible to prevent non subscribers from accessing TV, the web site and apps in 10 years' time. Not sure how that would work on the radio stations, though, but I'm sure they will find a way!

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

I didn't say it would be cheaper. However it needn't be more expensive, given that the Corporation would be competing in the market place, and this would also ensure that they paid more attention to efficiences that could be made to cut unnecessary costs.

Being released from the current straight jacket that prevents them from undertaking bold innovative revenue generation schemes under the current arrangements means that they would be able to pursue other income streams to bolster revenues.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

There is no such argument from anyone in a position to influence the decision. The BBC is a public service broadcaster; in the UK, and across Europe and much of the world, public service broadcasters are funded by advertising. The BBC is a very rare exception in having all of a licence fee and being forbidden to advertise.

If the BBC loses its right to receive the licence fee, it will follow the same model as ITV, Channel 4 and Five. This will be the case regardless of how often ill-informed commenters on the internet assert otherwise.

You can’t pass a law compelling the BBC to go behind a paywall. Even Sky isn’t subject to such restrictions. It encrypts by choice.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Who's saying a law needs to be passed to put the BBC behind a paywall.

All that needs to be done is scrap the license fee. How the BBC then raises revenue is then up to them.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Only dearer for those that want to use the BBC services via a subscription. For those like me who do not want to use there services it means i would not have to pay the the BBC tax

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Because most people who argue against the licence fee, on this forum at least, lack the imagination to see beyond the subscription model. They perceive the licence fee as, in effect, a compulsory subscription, and therefore their argument boils down to “change the compulsory subscription into a voluntary one”. Voluntary subscription tv services require, by their very nature, encryption and a paywall.

Yet there is absolutely no way the BBC would adopt a subscription model without being compelled to do so. It simply isn’t the way public service broadcasting works, anywhere in the world, and it could not sustain an operation of the BBC’s size and present reach.

The only possible outcome of abolishing the licence fee would be a BBC that looked and acted much the same as ITV presently does. Free to air, funded by advertising and overseas sales. And the problem with that is that it would cause a massive devaluing of ad breaks on British TV, quite possibly putting a lot of smaller channels out of business.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I think you miss the point Chris. I think you'll find most on this forum objecting to the license fee don't give a damn about the BBC.

It could close down tomorrow for all I care. I object to paying for something I do not use in any form whatsoever. I think most others do as well.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

And the vast majority would sadly have to pay more because if you look at viewing figures BBC get audiences for their programmes and services that many others can only simply only dream about

---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

This forum does not in no way represent the main populace view regarding the BBC.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I have to pay over £12 a month for the BBC, the only things I've watched in the last 3 months are Blue Planet and Detectorists.

If the BBC was a subscription service i would have stopped paying long ago, certainly at that price a month.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I in no way stated nor inferred that.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Wow! What an entrenched point of view you do have!

It’s not a question of what ‘anyone in a position to influence the decision’ want to do, it’s a question of what the public demand.

Whatever is going on in other countries, this doesn’t mean we have to follow. A BBC funded by subscription only could work. No need for advertising at all, although there’s nothing to prevent a future BBC from operating a subscription free advertising option.

Whatever you or any other bureaucrats want to do, ultimately you have to bow to the demands of the public. There is a growing resistance to the licence fee, and in a democracy, people have to be listened to.

---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

Absolutely true, but it is a fool who disregards the way the wind is blowing. By the way, you used two negatives in one sentence there, Den!

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 23:18 ----------

Agreed! :clap:

---------- Post added at 23:24 ---------- Previous post was at 23:22 ----------

However, it doesn't have to be more expensive! Even with recent cuts, the BBC is very, very wasteful.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

£12 a month to produce mostly original content, advert free plus all the extra service s the BBC provides is a steal.
Sky/VM charge 3 times plus that amount, for advert infested and imported crap. The little content they do produce is usually of inferior quality.
We need a state broadcaster, it's output is unique as its not influenced by profit/advertisers, it really would be a case of you'd miss it when its gone.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Well put Mr K

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Sky basic package which includes sports mix (more sport in a week than BBC show in a month) is £22 pm - when I went to school this was less than 2 times 12 not more than 3 times.

It may be a steal in your opinion, I think what people are saying is that they should be able to choose whether to pay or not as they have with sky or virgin.

Personally, I am unsure if I would or not, there are a few things I watch on BBC but would it justify £12pm - that is the question.

Anyway, getting back on topic is there a definitive answer to the ITV blackout on virgin?

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

No I wouldn't. I don't use it now so won't miss it if it goes. If it is so superior to anything else as you are inferring then there is no reason it cannot stand on it's own and turn a profit.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I agree that Sky does not represent good value for money but that is not a reason to rubbish the idea of a subscription to replace the licence fee. Netflix is a much better example, with a wealth of good viewing at your fingertips and a couple or so complete new original series coming out every week all year round. They don't have advertisements either.

I'm not quite sure why you are pointing out that we'd miss the BBC if it was gone. Nobody has suggested the Corporation should disappear and I am certainly not advocating that.

---------- Post added at 13:36 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

The definitive answer is for ITV to back down on their ridiculous demand for Virgin to stump up the money they seem to think they have a right to.

If ITV want to make more money from Virgin, maybe they should think more along the lines of what additional services they can offer. Their catch up offering is crap, for example. Why don't they think more along the lines of a bespoke Netflix type platform with 30 day catch up of all their scheduled offerings, plus whole series of ITV original dramas, shows and other material for which they have the rights, uncluttered by adverts. ITV must have a huge archive of programming that many people would appreciate having easy access to. With a bit of imagination, they should be able to come up with some ideas like this that Virgin would be prepared to pay them for as an additional service to VM customers.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

It was posted earlier in the thread before it exploded with talk of the BBC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...es-war-virgin/

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Let's hope something good comes of this to the benefit of Virgin customers.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I think I’ll just let this rest here for its ironic value.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Please take away ITV then I won't have to sit in a room with people who love Dancing on ice.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Surely, you don't have to have ITV removed to extricate your self from watching that rubbish.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Comedy gold. :)

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

:D:D

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I've noted a spelling mistake here, Chris. In your penultimate word, the 'r' should have been a 'c'. :rofl:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Yep, agreed. I know that BBC bashing is quite fashionable these days, and there's a lot more competition - but take away everything they provide and I suspect a few people would be rather surprised.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Not at all, if i don't use it how can i be surprised.

Anyway my point is i should have a choice and not be forced to pay because i own a TV. If i only watch SKY sports for instance and none of the BBC's products why should i have to pay a tax to the BBC when they had no input in the making of Sky's sports programs ???

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Same reason you’re forced to pay for services you don’t use via your council tax. Parliament has ruled that the BBC services, provided in the way that they are, are useful and desirable to the national life.

You may choose to use a private school or a private health club but you still pay council tax, which funds the local leisure centre and the local school.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

No, Chris, it's not the same. It is important for the economy and the services we expect to receive that the whole population is educated, just as you could say it is in the public interest that facilities are provided to encourage the population to be active and healthy. And so on.

But the BBC - this is just entertainment! Why should I be required to fund your entertainment?

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Totally wrong to compare the way you have. Useful and desirable to national life? How???

Spending by any council can and has been challenged and changed by the local community the council serves.

The BBC is a service provider. Unlike any other service provider you are forced to pay for it. You cannot be cut off for not paying for the service you use but you still have to pay.

Again unlike any other service provider you cannot move to another if you can get a better deal.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

This thread is not about the BBC, or its licence, get back to the topic please.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Do you use any BBC apps on your phone? Listen to any BBC radio? Use the BBC website at all? Follow any of its weather or news reports? . Watch any of the many cable channels that are repeating BBC output ?

Maybe you don't, but the vast majority do use the BBC in some way.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

None all.

BTW any channel showing showing any content licensed by the BBC has to pay for it.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I think that what this thread shows is that people are much more fired up about the BBC and its financing than whether ITV will disappear from our Virgin Media platform!

ITV should be worried!

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

ITV is an irrelevance. The BBC would go down market and the same way if the licence fee went.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

:sleep:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

No, it wouldn’t, or they would lose a lot of potential subscribers. To hold on to as many as possible, they could not dumb down from where they are now.

I don’t agree that ITV is an irrelevance, but I don’t support their push to make VM pay for carrying the channel. I would miss it if it went, but not that much.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

BBC local radio was awful in the main, it's why they done away with most of its output apart from breakfast and drive shows and their national stations have been overtaken imo, I don't even listen to radio 4 anymore

That's two things more than me, I only watch tv on a Wednesday and that is purely so I get some value from having to pay the tax and it's never the BBC I watch, I used to like BBC3 but they did away with that

I prefer to look at it as the BBC is stealing from me

Yes I'd be pleasantly surprised by the extra 12 quid a month

---------- Post added at 08:45 ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 ----------

Those are essential services, the BBC is not, you could make an argument that it used to be but that argument was lost about 10 years ago at the latest, probably even earlier

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

The BBC probably have to pay for the rights to broadcast sports programs - especially live events - as do others like Sky & BT etc.
They also have to pay writers, producers, actors, cameramen, sound engineers etc etc to make the programs they air, and that's not even touching upon the research, travel, accommodation needed for those rather excellent nature programs they provide.
You may watch the news for 30 minutes, but there's a lot more than 30 minutes of work goes into it.

The BBC don't 'do' adverts so rely on their income from the license fee or by selling their programs to other companies.

ITV have the same costs, but generated by advertising and selling their programs to other broadcasters.

If I made something (or had the rights to something) and another company wanted to use it, I'd be a fool to let them have it for nothing. I would either sell or hire that product to others . . . and if they didn't like that arrangement, well feel free to make your own :p:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I'm sure they pay for content, although sport can't cost much because Wimbledon apart there is very little on.

They could make a lot of savings - paying 1.5 million for Lineker to front football highlights is a massive waste as is paying a fortune to have 2 newsreaders plus a weather person, a sports person and a business person on breakfast news. Why so many? Because they don't care how much they spend as it is given to them rather than earns.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

The point everyone is missing is simple. If ITV pulled out of VM. there are other platforms that ITV is shown on.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

What about the loss of revenue for ITV, which relies heavily on advertising and thus needs audience share to be set at maximum?

It's true that ITV can be viewed through an aerial but not everyone has one, and also many who do have no means of recording these programmes.

There is always TV Player, but who can be bothered with that?