Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

l think the answer to that is perfectly clear as to why nothing will come from the baseless media speculation over here on this side of the pond MM.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Because most of them are tied up with existing rights, I suppose. Amazon have only recently ventured into the arena of streamed sports, so the big question is what will they go for as those rights expire.

Here is a neat analysis of whether Amazon might go for the premiership bidding.

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/analysi...-/2434.article

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

An interesting article, although I disagree on one point it raises,
Amazon or any other potential new bidder would not have to set up a full production operation, they could do what the likes of NBC and many overseas broadcasters do and take the Premier League feed and commentary.
I doubt if most fans would care if the get the Premier League feed (I find it better than Sky or BT's offerings) of a full on production.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Agree with this also love how on FOXsports and NBCsports you can get the full atmosphere by selecting one of the bonus streams with no commentary or even a fixed camera stream so you see it from a fans point of view.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Well, that's what I thought, too, but I'm glad you said it! People always seem to want to complicate things!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

On another US sports service I also like ESPN's multicast feature, if you want two or more games on at a time it looks very handy.
I personally have one game on my main TV and another on with the sound down on my Microsoft Surface in the background, but if I didn't have this option I'd make use of multicast quite frequently.

When you use US streaming services it makes you realise how inept our offerings are!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yes absolutely i forgot about ESPN and yet i watch the EFL on it lol, i do the same have the main match i wish to watch on my big tv and another match on my windows tablet.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

This can be very handy at times, the weekend before last I had some friends round for a Chelsea game that wasn't on British TV,
one who is a rugby fan too and was a little ungrateful complained he was missing the England-Australia game, I plonked my Surface in front of him showing that game via Now TV and as he's also quite IT illiterate he was amazed he could watch both at once.
Last Saturday it proved useful again, I got in from work and put the Liverpool-Chelsea game on via BT Sports on my TV and had my second sporting love The Ohio State Buckeyes big game of the season playing on the Surface :) (As college football takes so damn long to complete I actually managed to watch the whole second half on the TV after the Liverpool-Chelsea game ended lol).

P.S. don't hate me for being born into a Chelsea supporting family, trust me we've seen more bad times than good times!

P.P.S. Let me publicly thank theone2k10 for some information he PM'd me several months ago, this has been invaluable to keep my services running, since Windows updated itself and for reasons probably only known to Bill Gates my virtual router stopped working, but a part of the info supplied has let me continue using the US services my very good friend across the pond has shared with me.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I know very well about more bad times than good times being a Wolves fan.

You are most welcome, glad i could help :)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Although this sounds exciting, I wonder if, in reality, this is a last ditch attempt to save broadcast linear TV? If so, it looks to me as if the broadcasters are going all out to preserve the existing balance for as long as possible.

Of course, the BBC, with their more successful i-Player and no need to rely on advertising, are not involved with this and no doubt will be concentrating on developing their player into a Netflix-like service and launching UHD.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...g-tv-festival/

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...tmas-box-sets/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I know exactly what you mean however let's hope this season's good time lasts until at least May!!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Juniper research predicts that Amazon will win a package of Premiership football rights in the next bidding round.

http://www.digitaltveurope.com/2017/...sports-rights/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I'm surprised OB has missed this in Sky's latest update.

Read under the PlayReady heading

http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Q/Sk...2761095/page/2

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Wish my landlord would allow SKY to upgrade the system so we can get SKYQ, it looks like a great piece of kit.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Thanks, muppetman. Glad to see Sky biting the bullet at last.

I think Virgin need to speed up the process of adding Amazon and others to their V6s before Sky overtakes them yet again.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

To be fair Sky already has a huge On Demand library this update just enables them to add competitors On Demand offerings/apps should they strike future deals going forward.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I know they do, and adding apps from their competitors is the right thing to do as well. I believe that this is the key to drawing many more people in and it will also tend to deter cord cutting if everything is on one box.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Source

Pretty dismal perfomance by what are supposed to be the main channels but shows the audience is fragmenting.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

But there is also very little that a family can gather round and watch together. The halcyon days of the likes of Morcombe and Wise and similar don't happen and the old "blockbuster" films aren't first seen on the small screen at Christmas on the BBC/ITV.

In fact the schedules on the main channels look very similar now to any other day except for the funny jumpers and decorations.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I've said before the terrestrial channels need to work together on a joint On Demand service that's made available across all pay tv services and connected devices.

Two tiers

One free for those with a TV license including 30 day catch up

The other catch up including Box Sets and complete back catalogue for small fee around £5

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I agree with you. Unfortunately, their last attempt (Project Kangaroo, I think it was called) was scuppered by the government for some odd reason.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Probably an anti-competition thing from the EU.:D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Hopefully, now the Government realises that the BBC and ITV are dwarfed and challenged by the likes of Netflix and Amazon they will allow such a service. Even Rupert Murdoch threw in the towel so you know it must be tough out there!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The highest rating programme was The Queens Speech, the people who collate the data said that there was a notable spike in people switching on their televisions just before 3pm on Christmas day.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Originals drive UKTV to record ratings.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Good to see UKTV doing well, but I think this is at the expense of the main terrestrials. It does not disguise the shift taking place towards the streaming services.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It's an interesting prediction. The Premier League have made 42 additional games available with the smallest packages being 20 and 24 games. If Amazon win 1 package it looks like SKY and BT will end up with more live games than they currently broadcast. If Amazon win 2 packages SKY and BT will be left with the same amount of games they currently hold.

Interestingly there are a couple of packages for midweek only games that might not be so desirable for SKY or BT due to their existing commitments to show Football League, The League Cup, Champions League and Europa League now those nights.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

These packages has BT written all over it as you're not allowed to play Premier League games on UEFA competition nights.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

l doubt Amazon will win any Chad as l doubt they will even bid for any of the packages IMO.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

If there is to be a third rights holder Eurosport would be perfect especially if it was included on the current Eurosport channels.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Have they got the money though?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Isn't Eurosport either owned or part owned by Discovery Communications ?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

You may be correct, however I would point out that Eurosport channels are currently freely available on sky/virgin

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yes they are http://variety.com/2015/tv/global/di...t-1201545640/]
I have always been a big fan of Eurosport, they cover a lot of the sports I enjoy.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I am sure that Amazon would win if they put in a serious bid. They have more money to spend than Sky and BT put together, and then some.

However, as discussed elsewhere, given the current state of our broadband infrastructure, it is more likely to be the next bidding round rather than the current one that a serious bid from them would be forthcoming.

However, in the meantime it is certainly worth watching what Discovery/Eurosport do next.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I'm glad I went linear yesterday to watch Rick Stein, as my TIVO lost BBC2 HD so it would not have recorded.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

IMO Facebook and Twitter are two to keep an eye on too they have serious funds behind them too.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

If they win the rights to broadcast a package of Premier League games, there are the following questions that need answers:-

1. How will they film the matches?

2. How will the streaming model work - individual match purchase or monthly sub?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

1. same way as others do there is also a international feed i think i think NBCsports use a international link up with their own commentary team.
2. Very good question they may follow NBCsports with their nbcsports gold which is a monthly or annual fee, if i remember right SKY once did a season ticket thing too from premier plus.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Ok so not so difficult to get the pictures.

Will need a lot of subscribers to get near to breaking even.

Premier Plus, as I remember was 50 matches for £50. I cannot see many people paying more than £1.50 -£2 a game for a streamed match, especially with more football than ever on BT and Sky

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Premier Plus was a major flop for SKY that lasted for a few seasons. A combination of poor games, unfavourable broadcast times and customers not willing to pay more killed off the concept.

It's these same factors that could make it a tough sell for Amazon if they win a package. It's likely SKY and BT would exercise their first, second and third match day picks to snap up each week's top fixtures leaving Amazon with some utter dross on a Tuesday or Wednesday day night. Subscribers who already have a subscription to both BT Sport and Sky Sports would be thinking "Do I really want to add a 3rd subscription to a service I can't even watch on my TV through my SKY / Virgin box for C and D level matches?"

How would Amazon even go about getting their games onto screens in pubs and other commercial premises? Kit them out with Fire TV and fast reliable broadband?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Fire TV shouldn't be a problem, but at the moment, fast, reliable broadband may be. This is why I think they may also create their own broadcast linear channels if they were to win this time around.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

That's a strange thought given your consistent long term stance on Linear channels.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yeah I could see them doing that for commercial premises. At the moment streaming servic are very much geared towards home use.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Personal view but I'm still not sold on these streaming services taking Premier League football , I do wonder if some of these stories have been floated from those with a vested interest. Wasn't one of the sources a Premier League Chairman ?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

There is no conflict here, Den. If our broadband infrastructure is not yet up to scratch and so many homes would not be able to stream football as a result, it makes sense to supplement the streaming service with broadcast linear channels pro tem.

Incidentally, it could even be that Amazon piggy back onto existing sports channels to maximise their audience share. There are lots of possibilities I can see here to overcome the existing problems that we have.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

That was one of the many thoughts l had MM.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Exactly my feelings, it will be a difficult sell for 4th or 5th rate matches when you already have better games to watch - maybe a few punters who want to watch their favourite team but cannot see it being a big earner.

I know the companies mentioned can afford to run at a loss, but surely their goal is to make money off streaming after a couple of loss-leading years?

---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

Yes and Scudamore (CEO Premier League) plus OB of course

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Of course one has to listen and learn from others and take in their great pearls of wisdom.:)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I agree, what i think might happen is the big two SKY/BT will get all packs but someone like Amazon may get a highlights pack, this will enable Amazon to keep costs down or even possibly include it in prime video.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

An interesting little article here about what to expect in 2018 and the growing interrelationships between the media giants.

http://www.seenit.co.uk/mcmedia-new-...rn-old-tricks/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Interesting point in that article (amongst others)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

This is an interesting development from the BBC.

http://www.a516digital.com/2018/02/b...onditions.html

The documentation relating to the future distribution of content states:

'The BBC expects that over the course of the Charter period it will continue to deliver value to audiences through broadcast services – which still make up the majority of BBC consumption – while preparing for a future where all content experiences are delivered over the internet. Given the increasing pace of change, the BBC needs to prepare for that future to arrive early in the next Charter period. The transition to internet delivery of BBC services creates opportunities for the BBC to offer richer, more targeted experiences for audiences (see below) and new ways of bringing the nation and communities together, while also avoiding the duplicative costs of broadcast. However, it also comes with additional strategic challenges, above all, ensuring the BBC’s public service mission can still be effectively delivered on new connected platforms.'

This appears to lend credence to the theory I have promoted on my linear tv threads that broadcast channels are likely to be a thing of the past within the next couple of decades. If the BBC expects delivery of its programmes by internet only within the next 20 years, this gives me much more confidence in championing that opinion. My thinking until now was that the BBC would be the last to stop broadcasting in the conventional way.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Freeview broadcasting IMO has a limited life span , the air waves are already being cleared for 5G.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Looks like sports streaming is starting to take off.

https://advanced-television.com/2018...aming-records/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Minority sports though (and presumably free)- time to crow when premier league or similar is being streamed.

If subscribing costs as much as the NRL streaming, starting next week (£22pm) I cannot see there being that many takers.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

£22 for that they are indeed having a laugh.:td:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I continue to be amazed at the sums of money people are willing to pay to watch sport. And yet they do!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I continue to be amazed by people that tell us there's nothing worth watching on the pay TV channels and it's all about streaming but who continue to subscribe and pay for Virgin TV.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yes l wonder who springs to mind.:D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Well, I've never said that, and yet again, what I have said is either deliberately twisted, misremembered or not understood.

What I have said is that pay tv is poor value for money when you compare what's on there with terrestrial TV and streaming services.

As I have said more than once, I pay for the Sky channels to ensure that my wife and I don't miss out on the small number of shows that are worth watching. With the subscriptions pitched as high as they are, and the relatively small amount of watchable material on the non-premium Sky channels, I really think we are being ripped off. If the choice on Sky continues to deteriorate, I may well give up subscribing to this service, but at the moment I am waiting for developments that provide me with a better, comprehensive service, probably through cheaper or better value 'on demand' or new cloud options.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Certainly not me, I like to watch NRL , I even subscribed to Premier Sports at £11pm to do so last year.

£22 to watch streamed content of 8 matches a week is taking the p!ss, at least Prem Sports had other content for half the price.

If this is the way streaming is taking us it certainly isn't a change for the better.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Streaming services will only be able to charge silly prices when idiots will pay it.

Simple supply and demand.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

This is an interesting response to the commercial free environment presented by OTT services. Fox is planning to reduce the number of commercial services on its channels to 2 minutes per hour!

Well, what do you know, we didn't see that coming!

http://uk.businessinsider.com/fox-pl...18-3?r=US&IR=T

Whereas some streaming services are moving in the opposite direction by adding commercials to their subscription service!

http://www.v-net.tv/2018/01/25/fubot...-programmatic/

The future looks interesting, but including commercials within subscription streaming services is unwelcome. Hopefully, this will not catch on.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Possibly they are doing this to try to keep the monthly charge as low as possible. Which rather than being unwelcome is the opposite if they want people to subscribe

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Undoubtedly, but will the strategy work? They may gain customers due to the lower price but they will lose those who don't want to sit through commercials. They would certainly lose my custom if any streaming service I subscribed to decided to add compulsory advertisements.

I remain of the view that there should be a subscription option with no ads and a non-subscription (or low subscription) option with ads. That should draw in most people with interest in the service and produce bigger revenues.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The option of a two-tier subscription model would offer the choice people may want, however would it attract enough advertisers?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It seems Netflix wont be adopting ads or a two tier approach, Reed Hastings pledges the service will never show ads (or bid for sports and news)

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a8245701.html

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

No surprise that they don't bid for sports as Amazon have very much realised generally..

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Long may that policy continue!

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------

It depends how many go for it, I guess. There must be a lot of people up and down the country who either cannot afford Netflix or who are hard wired not to pay for TV viewing.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Further evidence that our conventional linear channels are in decline worldwide.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2018...or-challenges/

The National Audit Office says audiences are spending less time watching TV channels and buying fewer DVDs than they have previously. At the same time increased viewing to subscription video on demand services including Netflix and Amazon is impacting traditional pay-TV audiences.

Such changes are being felt by BBC Worldwide – which represents 90 per cent of the BBC’s commercial revenues – and has seen profits fall by 68 per cent from 2012-13 to 2016-17.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Even Ofcom appears to be waking up to the fact that conventional TV channels will not be around for much longer.

It's good that they have looked to the future of broadcasting seriously at last. Too late for Project Kangaroo, unfortunately, although maybe the terrestrials could be persuaded to look at it again.

http://informitv.com/2018/03/13/broa...on/#more-23298

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

More evidence:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Seriously, Sun and evidence - 2 words that should not be mixed!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

How about evidence from the BBC then?

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-35399658

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yep, spot on, but some people will never admit to it!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The BBC sees its future as an internet broadcaster. This adds considerable weight to the idea that on demand and streaming will replace traditional broadcast channels in the foreseeable future.

http://www.csimagazine.com/csi/IP-ne...o-work-BBC.php

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It's about time you made another post regarding this, OB, almost six weeks since the last one, and I do agree with you..............:)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I just like to keep the thought bubbling, in case the odd person starts to think nothing is happening! :D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I wonder who you may be referring to there, OB.........:D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Repeat and repeat ad nauseum but traditional broadcast channels will still be around when l am long gone OB.

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

l will give you a little club MM.;):waving:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Oh, there you are, Den. We thought you had been a little quiet of late. :D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

A man can have many interests OB so that keeps me busy.:)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Any doubts that linear TV through conventional channels will decline over time should be lessened by this report. Having heard about substantial declines in the US, this report confirms that there is a definite trend in Europe, too.

The UK is holding up better, largely I think owing to the presence of the BBC, but the writing is on the wall.

My worry is that advertising will find a way of invading our viewing as traditional channels decline and streaming services advance. For this reason, I hope that most digital services that come to impose non-skippable advertisements will also have a subscription option without commercials. If there is no way to avoid commercials, the TV viewing experience would become unbearable for many.

https://advanced-television.com/2018...ing-linear-tv/

Extract

The bank adds that this shift to on-demand viewing means a consequential share loss for Euro broadcasters. “Compare a 5-30 channel home in a traditional DTT (Freeview/TNT) world with the almost unlimited content available on a mobile device, tablet or a broadband-connected “smart TV”, from YouTube, Amazon Video, Google Play, Vice News, Eurosport Player and national platforms like Daily Motion, Magine, Cofunk, Magine TV. Not all of these carry advertising, but many do. In this world, traditional broadcasters are clearly failing to replicate their share of TV advertising spend. We have shown this in prior TV Ad Monitors for all Euro TV groups, but we now have estimates based on our industry contacts for the latest UK online video ad share.”

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

In your opinion l gather..

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

How would you interpret this decline, then, Den? Advertisers relying primarily on TV viewership must be looking at this trend nervously and working out how to advertise effectively in the future with falling audience figures on the traditional TV channels.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Strange how all the big events are on traditional TV channels and those audiences are going through the roof as streaming/on-demand as useful as it is as a add on can only ever dream about that audience reach.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It's not strange at all, Den, that is the way it's always been done in the past and it is still how the majority of the country gets its viewing.

Once again, your arguments relate to the now rather than the future, and this thread is about the future. The changing trend is there for all with their eyes open to see.

Streaming live events is tricky in these early days, with blocking, stuttering and latency issues, but streaming will become much more attractive when these problems are resolved, and of course once high speed broadband becomes generally available throughout the country.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Sorry my mistake as l should have said now and the future.

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

Well we have a long way to go OB as we are 35th in the world currently in the broadband speed table which is down 4 places.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

You said that the big events are on traditional TV channels, and that is correct, but it doesn't reflect what will change in the future. That was my point.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

That's just not the case, Den, for example, the Champions League final wasn't on traditional TV, and I'd say that's a pretty big event, same with the big golfing events, these are all on Sky now.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Indeed but these events are still on TV channels at the end of the day and that will not change MM.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I wouldn't say that it will not change, Den, there's been a lot of talk about Wimbledon going to Sky recently, if that happens then that's another big event lost to the traditional channels, and what will that leave in terms of big sporting events on traditional TV, the world cup?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It's no good, Max. Den will never accept any change until it happens.

It's just how it is.

:shrug:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

OB - if streaming is the future and linear channels will be dying , how come BT Sports UHD is to become a linear channel

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

l prefer to see real life reality OB rather then hope the fairies deliver something under the pillow by the morning.;)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I'm surprised with the masses of content the BBC have they don't just put it all on the iPlayer and leave it on there. Rather than select bits of content been on there for a couple of weeks to a few months.

The iPlayer could be a great service all the content in the BBC archives.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

:dozey:Totally agree!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yes, I agree - I think their material should sit there for a couple of years before being offered exclusively to Netflix, Amazon and other channels. That would then provide a better choice for viewers at any one time.

The i-Player should be viewed as much more than a catch-up service, for the benefit of licence payers.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The BBC don't own all the rights to their shows.