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-   -   The 2017 General Election (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704990)

Onramp 09-06-2017 20:06
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
CF poll was quite close to the actual outcome.

Mr K 09-06-2017 20:17
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Senior Tory MP: "We all f***ing hate her. But there is nothing we can do. She has totally f***ed us".
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/st...arliament-live

A bit harsh I thought ! I'm beginning to quite like her, she's a socialist at heart, must be... ;)

Hom3r 09-06-2017 21:03
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Lets hope Jimmy Krankie quits.

Chris 09-06-2017 21:21
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35902565)
Lets hope Jimmy Krankie quits.
Highly unlikely. The cult is so brainwashed they're all swallowing the "we won the election in Scotland" line at the moment, plus of course there's the small problem of there being nobody to replace her.

Mr Banana 09-06-2017 22:19
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902557)
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/st...arliament-live

A bit harsh I thought ! I'm beginning to quite like her, she's a socialist at heart, must be... ;)
Thought you would be pleased, just watching the news and Corbyn reckons he won?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-election-2017

Pierre 09-06-2017 22:48
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902569)
Thought you would be pleased, just watching the news and Corbyn reckons he won?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-election-2017
In the same way Liverpool won the premier league and Hitler won the war.

Osem 09-06-2017 23:08
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902569)
Thought you would be pleased, just watching the news and Corbyn reckons he won?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-election-2017
Yep, he reckons he won just like he reckons he never attended all those terrorist meetings, just like John McDonnell reckons he never went to a fee paying school and just like Dianne Abbott reckons she was too ill to vote and do an interview. What is it with Labour and the truth?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/374907...r-prep-school/

MalteseFalcon 09-06-2017 23:44
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quite honestly, this election has been a disaster for everyone pretty much.

Teresa May because she lost the majority that Cameron somehow against all the odds in 2015 secured
Corbyn because whilst doing so much better than I and many polls predicted didn't win the election
Sturgeon because the incessant banging on about a second Scottish independence referendum drove voters away to the Scottish Tories
Nuttall & Farage because UKIP is now pretty much finished as a political party, in all honesty once the Leave result last year won UKIP should had disbanded

In fact, only the DUP seem to have been the big winners out of this election, finding themselves effectively in government, even if there's no official coalition or confidence and supply agreement between them. However, I cannot see this lasting for a full 5 years now so I am 90% sure we will be having the election by 2020. Also probably without May as leader of Tories.

Paul 10-06-2017 02:24
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
I'll be surprised if May is still leader at the end of 2017, nevermind 2020. She screwed up big time.

denphone 10-06-2017 05:15
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35902580)
I'll be surprised if May is still leader at the end of 2017, nevermind 2020. She screwed up big time.
l think you have summed it up perfectly even for Conservative voters as her campaign was a utter disaster from start to finish and even though she had many chances to get out from the looming iceberg on the horizon she had neither the political skills or nous to prevent the oncoming collision.

As l say l am no fan of Corbyn but compared to May he was in a different league campaigning wise in the election as Theresa May seem to have a contemptuous disregard for the electorate in that her plan was to do nothing and expect a landslide at the end of it.

There should have never been a election to start with and whoever advised her to do that should tender their resignation forthwith as it was a clear cynical move for her own electoral advantages that Joe Public quite clearly saw through.

The Conservatives had learned nothing from the Referendum campaign in that negative campaigning does not work as the public are not stupid and see through these things and they saw through that and her media newspaper supporters and their daily running scare stories.

The Conservatives never really set out their own clear plans and when they did announce their manifesto it was a absolutely clear unmitigated disaster whilst Corbyns manifesto seem to go down well even with non Labour supporters so the signs were there.

As we know the rest is history.

1andrew1 10-06-2017 07:59
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35902580)
I'll be surprised if May is still leader at the end of 2017, nevermind 2020. She screwed up big time.
Apparently, the bookies estimate a 54% chance of another election this year.
Yet more money wasted on election admin that could be spent on the NHS, schools and security.

Gary L 10-06-2017 09:11
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
So what we've learned from this mess is that Theresa is a bloody old fool.

calling an election that we didn't need purely for the reason of bigging up her ego. she was hoping that she would be given super human powers by the voting public.

she's weaker now than she ever was. she's more wobblier than she ever was.
Stability?? my arse!
the woman is pathetic. go old wobbly can't be taken seriously woman!

when you hear her talk now and hear her wobbly voice. you just can't take her seriously can you.
she's trying to be in charge but she really can't pull it off.
shake your fists more wobbly woman. that might work!

Mr K 10-06-2017 12:06
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkC1984 (Post 35902576)
Quite honestly, this election has been a disaster for everyone pretty much.

Teresa May because she lost the majority that Cameron somehow against all the odds in 2015 secured
Corbyn because whilst doing so much better than I and many polls predicted didn't win the election
Sturgeon because the incessant banging on about a second Scottish independence referendum drove voters away to the Scottish Tories
Nuttall & Farage because UKIP is now pretty much finished as a political party, in all honesty once the Leave result last year won UKIP should had disbanded

In fact, only the DUP seem to have been the big winners out of this election, finding themselves effectively in government, even if there's no official coalition or confidence and supply agreement between them. However, I cannot see this lasting for a full 5 years now so I am 90% sure we will be having the election by 2020. Also probably without May as leader of Tories.
They'll be another election this year never mind 2020. The DUP are right wing homophobic trouble making nutters. They'll be demanding everything and holding her to ransom. Only takes a few Tories to rebel on any issue or a couple of by elections for it all to fall. One of her MPs is in court facing charges next month; he'll find it hard to vote behind bars.

Labour didn't win but they did far better than anyone expected. They are going forwards, the Tories have pressed the self destruct button as usual. Jezza needs to bring some of the former Labour big guns back, but they have to accept why he's been successful and that New Labour is history.

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35902588)
So what we've learned from this mess is that Theresa is a bloody old fool.
Yes a lot of Tories seem to have that sentiment. None of them said it before the election though, they thought she was a tactical genius ! They underestimated Corbyn and took the public for granted. The tide is turning, the next few months will be a shambles and the Tories will get the blame. Meanwhile Labours support will increase.

denphone 10-06-2017 12:42
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Two in three Conservative Party members say that May should announce her resignation.

http://www.conservativehome.com/thet...signation.html

passingbat 10-06-2017 12:58
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902593)
The DUP are right wing homophobic trouble making nutters. They'll be demanding everything and holding her to ransom..

Some of the DUP policies are in line with Biblical teaching. Good.


But they will not be used as a bargaining chip. They are interested in the Brexit aspect. They want a friction less border, but out of the single market. Something everyone wants.

Mr Banana 10-06-2017 13:11
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902593)
They'll be another election this year never mind 2020. The DUP are right wing homophobic trouble making nutters. They'll be demanding everything and holding her to ransom. Only takes a few Tories to rebel on any issue or a couple of by elections for it all to fall. One of her MPs is in court facing charges next month; he'll find it hard to vote behind bars.

Labour didn't win but they did far better than anyone expected. They are going forwards, the Tories have pressed the self destruct button as usual. Jezza needs to bring some of the former Labour big guns back, but they have to accept why he's been successful and that New Labour is history.

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------



Yes a lot of Tories seem to have that sentiment. None of them said it before the election though, they thought she was a tactical genius ! They underestimated Corbyn and took the public for granted. The tide is turning, the next few months will be a shambles and the Tories will get the blame. Meanwhile Labours support will increase.
Think you are getting a little carried away. The Conservative campaign was shocking as was their manifesto and yet they still beat labour by 56 seats. It was also the highest turnout since 97 and the majority appear to have been students who leaned towards Labour.

The Conservatives also increased their share of the vote by 12.4% whereas Labour increased by 9.8%.

So, in my opinion, they had their chance and blew it.

Hugh 10-06-2017 13:24
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
From yesterday's News Quiz.

Jeremy Corbyn proved wrong all those people who said he couldn't win an election, by not winning an election...

ianch99 10-06-2017 13:26
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35902607)
Some of the DUP policies are in line with Biblical teaching. Good.


But they will not be used as a bargaining chip. They are interested in the Brexit aspect. They want a friction less border, but out of the single market. Something everyone wants.
Not quite true ;)

peanut 10-06-2017 13:32
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35902614)
From yesterday's News Quiz.

Jeremy Corbyn proved wrong all those people who said he couldn't win an election, by not winning an election...

Yep, which is explained by this...

Anonymouse 10-06-2017 13:35
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Frankly, I'm no fan of any of them. I still want a 'None Of The Above' option - that way the politicians would find out, for certain, what the electorate really thinks. I reckon NOTA would get a majority, It'd be fun, if nothing else, to see what would happen.

For myself, Heinlein's logic still rings true: if you can't decide who to vote for, then vote against. The fly in the ointment is that if you don't want to vote for any of them, then you end up voting for none of them, i.e. not voting. Which is precisely why I want NOTA - it would be possible to make your feelings known while not compromising your principles by voting for someone you don't want to vote for. (The exception to this was 1997, when millions of people including me voted against the Tories for the simple reason that we were desperate to get rid of them! I don't know anyone who reckoned Labour would be any better - they weren't, of course, and I never trusted Blair and that creepy smile anyway - but at least they weren't the damn Tories!)

And don't give me that cobblers about not being entitled to complain if you don't vote - us non-voters still have to pay our taxes, which pay for whichever government gets in! (Speaking of taxes, did you know tax rebates are taxed? Yeah - I claimed a rebate for work uniform laundry...and lost 20% of it in VAT! :mad: )

The current political system does not work. End of. As far as I'm concerned they can all take a running jump.

Hugh 10-06-2017 13:36
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35902607)
Some of the DUP policies are in line with Biblical teaching. Good.


But they will not be used as a bargaining chip. They are interested in the Brexit aspect. They want a friction less border, but out of the single market. Something everyone wants.
Well, hopefully not Exodus 21.7, Exodus 35.2, Leviticus 11, etc. ;)

https://youtu.be/DVL-gA1KpxQ

(Not to mention Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Leviticus 21:17-23, Leviticus 15: 19-20)

Taf 10-06-2017 13:38
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Around here, those that abandoned Labour in 2015 to vote UKIP, allowing the Tories in, have now abandoned UKIP and gone back to Labour, ousting the Tories. To be expected. No huge swell of voting by youngsters either.

OLD BOY 10-06-2017 13:41
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 35902620)
Frankly, I'm no fan of any of them. I still want a 'None Of The Above' option - that way the politicians would find out, for certain, what the electorate really thinks. I reckon NOTA would get a majority, It'd be fun, if nothing else, to see what would happen.

For myself, Heinlein's logic still rings true: if you can't decide who to vote for, then vote against. The fly in the ointment is that if you don't want to vote for any of them, then you end up voting for none of them, i.e. not voting. Which is precisely why I want NOTA - it would be possible to make your feelings known while not compromising your principles by voting for someone you don't want to vote for. (The exception to this was 1997, when millions of people including me voted against the Tories for the simple reason that we were desperate to get rid of them! I don't know anyone who reckoned Labour would be any better - they weren't, of course, and I never trusted Blair and that creepy smile anyway - but at least they weren't the damn Tories!)

And don't give me that cobblers about not being entitled to complain if you don't vote - us non-voters still have to pay our taxes, which pay for whichever government gets in! (Speaking of taxes, did you know tax rebates are taxed? Yeah - I claimed a rebate for work uniform laundry...and lost 20% of it in VAT! :mad: )

The current political system does not work. End of. As far as I'm concerned they can all take a running jump.
So, as a matter of interest, exactly what kind of policies would you vote for? :waving:

Mr K 10-06-2017 14:11
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902611)

The Conservatives also increased their share of the vote by 12.4% whereas Labour increased by 9.8%.
That was the UKIP disintegration effect. Nigel's coming back and swivel eyed loons will return to UKIP when it becomes apparent they aren't getting the Hard Brexit they have wet dreams about.

denphone 10-06-2017 14:17
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Fallout continues for Theresa Mays election campaign team.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-team-dup-live

Hugh 10-06-2017 14:48
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/06/14.jpg

Theresa May and Amber Rudd arriving at the negotiations with the DUP.

(h/t to twitter @victoriapeckham)

Damien 10-06-2017 14:56
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902611)
Think you are getting a little carried away. The Conservative campaign was shocking as was their manifesto and yet they still beat labour by 56 seats. It was also the highest turnout since 97 and the majority appear to have been students who leaned towards Labour.

The Conservatives also increased their share of the vote by 12.4% whereas Labour increased by 9.8%.

So, in my opinion, they had their chance and blew it.
I can certainly see the Conservatives doing better next time around but equally it's clear that Labour are far stronger now than before the election whilst the government is much weaker. If Labour resist the temptation to collapse inwards of themselves they could be better: Corbyn will be getting the loudest cheer from his backbenchers at the first PMQs back, you might get heavyweights returning to the front bench - Yvette Cooper instead of Abbot for example - and just more credibility in general.

I don't think the Tories are in as much peril for a second election if they got their act together with a different leader, a less nasty campaign and a more inclusive message. May thought she could alienate almost half the country, especially young people, to entice UKIP voters over and win easily. Most of us thought so too. Turns out UKIP voters aren't shy Conservatives though and suddenly all those people she dismissed were more important.

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35902614)
From yesterday's News Quiz.

Jeremy Corbyn proved wrong all those people who said he couldn't win an election, by not winning an election...
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 35902619)
Yep, which is explained by this...
Is that 2nd quote from the same part of the News Quiz as Hugh's quote. Hugo Rifkind's entire rant from which Hugh quoted is very similar to it.

denphone 10-06-2017 15:04
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35902633)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/06/14.jpg

Theresa May and Amber Rudd arriving at the negotiations with the DUP.

(h/t to twitter @victoriapeckham)
That's a good one.:D:D

Mick 10-06-2017 15:18
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Members are reminded about keeping things civil and not insulting other members.

Paul 10-06-2017 17:16
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35902548)
You're OK with the conservatives teaming up with a party that are pro anti abortion & have blocked same sex marriage?
Yes, why ?

Mr K 10-06-2017 17:25
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
And then there's the DUPs links to paramilitaries.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7782631.html
Can't really have a go at Corbyn now.

TheDaddy 10-06-2017 17:26
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35902607)
Some of the DUP policies are in line with Biblical teaching. Good.


But they will not be used as a bargaining chip. They are interested in the Brexit aspect. They want a friction less border, but out of the single market. Something everyone wants.
I thought I heard Arlene say no one wanted a hard Brexit, perhaps it's the accent

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35902659)
Yes, why ?
Ruth Davidson might not be happy with that

OLD BOY 10-06-2017 17:32
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35902665)
I thought I heard Arlene say no one wanted a hard Brexit, perhaps it's the accent

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------



Ruth Davidson might not be happy with that
What Arlene and Ruth want is one thing. What they will get will be rather different.

Mr K 10-06-2017 17:40
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902669)
What Arlene and Ruth want is one thing. What they will get will be rather different.
Both can demand and get whatever they want now. Theresa is a lame duck.

Damien 10-06-2017 17:50
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Imagine Ruth Davidson has more clout within the Tories than the DUP will and a lot of MPs will be uneasy about their arrangement

Mr K 10-06-2017 18:42
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
. Theresa May considering formal coalition which could mean cabinet positions for DUP MPs
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7783741.html
They can't be serious??? These people have links with terrorists. Decent people in her own party wouldn't stick that. Total hypocrisy given all the coalition of chaos SNP/Labour and Corbyn/Sinn Fein stories they spouted.

OLD BOY 10-06-2017 19:11
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902671)
Both can demand and get whatever they want now. Theresa is a lame duck.
No, they can't. You forget that the DUP always vote with the Conservatives anyway, as does Ruth Davidson.

---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902679)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7783741.html
They can't be serious??? These people have links with terrorists. Decent people in her own party wouldn't stick that. Total hypocrisy given all the coalition of chaos SNP/Labour and Corbyn/Sinn Fein stories they spouted.
A formal coalition with the DUP isn't going to happen. That is pure speculation.

Arthurgray50@blu 10-06-2017 19:29
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Yes, l did vote Labour. But, only just. I didn't decide until l went into the box and put my X on Ruth Cadbury MP.

I am totally delighted at the outcome. The Tories are now rocking. And l can see TM being thrown out. By angry Tories as did when MT got booted.

The election was a disaster for the Tories. And it really does give JC a chance of becoming a PM.

With a No confidence vote being given into Parliament very soon after Parliament opening.

DUP want assurances to support TM, But this will be thrown out by various parties.

And even Stupid Boris is hotly tipped to take over. See the knives and have been sharpened and are ready to go for the kill

Mick 10-06-2017 19:42
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902679)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7783741.html
They can't be serious??? These people have links with terrorists. Decent people in her own party wouldn't stick that. Total hypocrisy given all the coalition of chaos SNP/Labour and Corbyn/Sinn Fein stories they spouted.
But not really.

The DUP link with terrorists is tenuous. I think Chris, tried to explain this a few pages ago.

The DUP were aligned with the resistance group, Ulster Resistance, who supported Northern Ireland remaining part of the United Kingdom and they committed no Terrorist Acts. The DUP cut ties to them one year after UR's creation.

Ulster Resistance did smuggle weapons illegally, one could assume to defend against the uprising of the IRA, as they were totally against the IRA, I guess this makes UR, on our side ?

We all know the IRA murdered people in large numbers with the Bombs and Bullets, something Labour's John Mcdonnell, said at one time that this should be honoured. (Sick man). DUP Westminster Leader Nigel Dodds, had something to say about this not that long ago.



Let's also not forget, Diane Abbott wanted British Defeat, but it's okay, I guess because she no longer has some of these views because she no longer has that, 'splendid Afro' . We all know Corbyn has stood with or sympathised with multiple terrorist organisations.

I know who I would pick sides with. :rolleyes:

TheDaddy 10-06-2017 20:16
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902669)
What Arlene and Ruth want is one thing. What they will get will be rather different.
I was actually replying to passing bats comment on everyone wanting out of the single market, Arlene Foster doesn't and unlike Passingbat she is in a position to do something about it. Ms Davidson on the other hand has to lump it and like her new found allies in spite of their opposition to her forthcoming marriage and general bigotry toward her and people of her orientation

richard s 10-06-2017 21:16
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Well done Canterbury for voting Labour... 100 years of Tory rule gone... now for some other blue areas to turn red in Kent.

denphone 11-06-2017 05:33
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard s (Post 35902701)
Well done Canterbury for voting Labour... 100 years of Tory rule gone... now for some other blue areas to turn red in Kent.
Apparently students Richard and a long sitting MP who some say didn’t represent the constituency and more or less sat on his laurels.

TheDaddy 11-06-2017 06:59
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Nothing surprises me with them since new labour new danger, glad it backfired so spectacularly. If only they'd spent a little of it spelling out the much vaunted plan and a few policies Mrs May might not be clinging on to her job

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/10/tories...verts-6699774/

denphone 11-06-2017 07:12
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35902730)
Nothing surprises me with them since new labour new danger, glad it backfired so spectacularly. If only they'd spent a little of it spelling out the much vaunted plan and a few policies Mrs May might not be clinging on to her job

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/10/tories...verts-6699774/
The thing is TD extreme negative campaigning had come to the fore during the referendum campaign and many saw through it then but quite clearly the Conservatives still took the electorate as fools which quite clearly they are not as the negative campaigning backfired spectacularly as we now see.

When they did release some of their own policies from their manifesto that to was a unmitigated disaster as they were just as ill thought out as some of Labours policies in their manifesto and also the Conservatives notion that the Brexiteers voters on their own would give them the thumping majority that they hoped for in their election again foundered badly on the rocks as well

Mr Banana 11-06-2017 08:31
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902664)
And then there's the DUPs links to paramilitaries.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7782631.html
Can't really have a go at Corbyn now.
No need to have a go at Corbin anymore - he lost

Hugh 11-06-2017 08:49
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902733)
No need to have a go at Corbin anymore - he lost
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...0&d=1497167299

Damien 11-06-2017 09:18
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902733)
No need to have a go at Corbin anymore - he lost
Well they might need more ammunition, he is stronger than he was before the election politically and May is weaker.

Osem 11-06-2017 09:19
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35902738)
Well they might need more ammunition, he is stronger than he was before the election politically and May is weaker.
Once the dust has settled it'll be back to the same old infighting and Corbyn's temporary, gloss will soon tarnish. He's still a loser, albeit not just as big a one as many people thought.

Damien 11-06-2017 09:22
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902739)
Once the dust has settled it'll be back to the same old infighting and Corbyn's temporary gloss will soon tarnish.
They hope. A lot of the infighting was based on the idea Corbyn would led to electoral disaster, he is going to have a lot more backbench support. He may chuck that all away of course but at the moment the party is a lot stronger.

denphone 11-06-2017 09:32
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902739)
Once the dust has settled it'll be back to the same old infighting and Corbyn's temporary, gloss will soon tarnish. He's still a loser, albeit not just as big a one as many people thought.
Yes he is a loser but a bigger loser is this country as we are stuck with a lame duck prime minister propped up by the DUC and from my experience its not if she goes but when as the infighting has already started to kick off within her party and its going to be very hard to douse the fires of discontent now within her party from my experience.

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35902740)
They hope. A lot of the infighting was based on the idea Corbyn would led to electoral disaster, he is going to have a lot more backbench support. He may chuck that all away of course but at the moment the party is a lot stronger.
All it needs is a couple of by-elections now and that majority with the DUC support is gone probably.

Mr Banana 11-06-2017 09:33
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35902740)
They hope. A lot of the infighting was based on the idea Corbyn would led to electoral disaster, he is going to have a lot more backbench support. He may chuck that all away of course but at the moment the party is a lot stronger.
I agree with what you are saying but I just have a feeling that we saw a few weeks of a chap acting how he was advised to act and that deep down he still harbours the views he has had for years.

Damien 11-06-2017 09:37
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35902743)
I agree with what you are saying but I just have a feeling that we saw a few weeks of a chap acting how he was advised to act and that deep down he still harbours the views he has had for years.
He certainly has the same views.

I think the main difference is Corbyn is an excellent campaigner but so far a poor leader of a political party. We've seen the before when he turns it on for leadership elections before going AWOL during normal day-to-day politics.

It could be the same dynamic occurs again. Or he and the party could see the advantage they now have and restructure. He gets more big-hitters from the backbenchers to join the shadow cabinet, listens to their advice, they accommodate a lot of his domestic policy platform and go from there.

I still think the Tories would do better in another election if they changed leader, had a better campaign and manifesto and were generally more inclusive than May deciding half the country were sneering remoaning saboteurs and sticking two fingers up at them.

1andrew1 11-06-2017 09:42
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
More strength and stability from the Conservatives.
Quote:
Confusion as DUP denies it has struck a deal with May’s Tories
Theresa May’s move to form a new government fell into confusion early on Sunday, after the Democratic Unionist Party denied it had finalised a deal to support the Conservatives in the UK parliament...
Sky News reported that Downing Street had announced a deal in error by sending out the wrong statement.
https://www.ft.com/content/b78dabfc-...2-db19572361bb

ianch99 11-06-2017 09:45
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902747)
More strength and stability from the Conservatives.

https://www.ft.com/content/b78dabfc-...2-db19572361bb
She is practising her negotiating technique for next week :)

OLD BOY 11-06-2017 09:54
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35902689)
Yes, l did vote Labour. But, only just. I didn't decide until l went into the box and put my X on Ruth Cadbury MP.

I am totally delighted at the outcome. The Tories are now rocking. And l can see TM being thrown out. By angry Tories as did when MT got booted.

The election was a disaster for the Tories. And it really does give JC a chance of becoming a PM.

With a No confidence vote being given into Parliament very soon after Parliament opening.

DUP want assurances to support TM, But this will be thrown out by various parties.

And even Stupid Boris is hotly tipped to take over. See the knives and have been sharpened and are ready to go for the kill
I don't know how you can be delighted with the outcome, Arthur. Corbyn still lost the election, and now we have a chaotic situation that will be difficult to retrieve.

If this impacts on our Brexit negotiations, this could mean a bad deal for the UK that will impact adversely on our economy. That will lead to even more austerity.

So tell me, Arthur, why on earth would you be 'delighted at the outcome'?

---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35902740)
They hope. A lot of the infighting was based on the idea Corbyn would led to electoral disaster, he is going to have a lot more backbench support. He may chuck that all away of course but at the moment the party is a lot stronger.
But Corbyn is weaker without Diane Abbott by his side to help him calculate the cost of his policies. :rofl:

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902747)
More strength and stability from the Conservatives.

https://www.ft.com/content/b78dabfc-...2-db19572361bb
The talks with the DUP don't start until Tuesday, in fact. I would be surprised if this came to anything other than an agreement to continue voting with the Conservatives, as they have always done.

1andrew1 11-06-2017 10:02
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35902749)
She is practising her negotiating technique for next week :)
At this rate, the Conservatives will be negotiating an alliance with the DUP concurrently with Brexit. You couldn't make it up!

Meanwhile, a summary of why the Conservatives failed to win a majority and why the £ and stock market did not plummet after the results:
Quote:
“The election delivered two messages to the government: the electorate is fatigued with continuing austerity, and there was a rejection of the confrontational approach to Brexit negotiations,” said Mike Amey, a managing director at the funds giant Pimco. “That’s how the markets interpret it and we interpret it.”
(The Sunday Times via, paywall, https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/b...exit-lcwm7mjng)

---------- Post added at 10:02 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902750)
But Corbyn is weaker without Diane Abbott by his side to help him calculate the cost of his policies. :rofl:
Is May stronger or weaker without Tim and Fiona by her side?
http://news.sky.com/story/who-are-ni...isers-10911080

Dave42 11-06-2017 13:25
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Kevin Maguire‏
Verified account
@Kevin_Maguire 2m
2 minutes ago

Sinn Fein's 7 abstentionist MPs next week in Westminster to warn DUP-Con deal jeopardises the Good Friday Agreement and N Ireland peace

richard1960 11-06-2017 13:34
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
People are sick of austerity no doubt myself 1% or 0% pay increases in the public services are a joke.

This result means that May probably has not got a mandate for a hard Brexit IE us leaving the single market and customs union so it remains to be seen what happens when negotiations start.

She had better hurry though she triggered article 50 quite some time ago . The clock is running down.

Pierre 11-06-2017 13:52
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902754)
Meanwhile, a summary of why the Conservatives failed to win a majority and why the £ and stock market did not plummet after the results:
(The Sunday Times via, paywall, https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/b...exit-lcwm7mjng)[COLOR="Silver"]
Just his opinion.

Other opinions are available.

Everything changed when the manifestos came out. The Tories totally shot themselves in the foot with the social care policy, school dinners etc etc.

They should have focused on Brexit and issued a "steady as she goes" manifesto.

Nothing in any manifesto from any party is deliverable if Brexit goes tits up.

They also mis-calculated that the good will being shown to May for her Brexit handling to date, would transpose onto other policies. Nope.

---------- Post added at 13:52 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902779)
This result means that May probably has not got a mandate for a hard Brexit IE us leaving the single market and customs union so it remains to be seen what happens when negotiations start.
Why after all this time do people not realise there is no such thing as a hard Brexit/soft Brexit.

There is only Brexit or not Brexit, and that has already been decided.

If you want to stay in the single market then you are not leaving the EU, you will still be bound by the EU rules, regs, freedoms and ECJ.

richard1960 11-06-2017 13:58
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35902782)
Just his opinion.

Other opinions are available.

Everything changed when the manifestos came out. The Tories totally shot themselves in the foot with the social care policy, school dinners etc etc.

They should have focused on Brexit and issued a "steady as she goes" manifesto.

Nothing in any manifesto from any party is deliverable if Brexit goes tits up.

They also mis-calculated that the good will being shown to May for her Brexit handling to date, would transpose onto other policies. Nope.

---------- Post added at 13:52 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------



Why after all this time do people not realise there is no such thing as a hard Brexit/soft Brexit.

There is only Brexit or not Brexit, and that has already been decided.

If you want to stay in the single market then you are not leaving the EU, you will still be bound by the EU rules, regs, freedoms and ECJ.
No you are correct.

Well its like this a hard Brexit to me is just walking away without a deal and reverting to WTO rules.

But staying in the single market does mean being bound by EU rules and for me as a trade union rep that's no bad thing , TUPE is European backed , as are maternity rights, and a case went to the European court a couple of years ago which was lost in UK courts, which meant people had to be paid full wages whist on holiday including an premiums they would otherwise had been paid , had they not been on holiday.

As identified a lot of our infrastructure is European Run as well Train companies (Franchised) Water companies utility companies ,as well as large employers Nissan and Honda who have only committed to the UK in the short term at the moment.

To be honest I want to stay in the single market or customs union.

So really do not want to exit anyway as if it all goes belly up we have an awful lot to lose.

1andrew1 11-06-2017 14:36
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35902782)
Why after all this time do people not realise there is no such thing as a hard Brexit/soft Brexit.

There is only Brexit or not Brexit, and that has already been decided.

If you want to stay in the single market then you are not leaving the EU, you will still be bound by the EU rules, regs, freedoms and ECJ.
You may not like it but hard and soft Brexit have become accepted popular terminology. My understanding is:
Hard Brexit = leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market.
Soft Brexit = leave the EU but potentially re-join the Customs Union and/or Single Market.

Cambridge University Press's definitions are:
Hard Brexit: a Brexit in which the United Kingdom stops being a member of the European single market and gets full control of its own law-making and immigration
Soft Brexit: a Brexit in which the United Kingdom's relationship with the European Union is a close as possible to what it was before Brexit: In a "soft Brexit", Britain would be out of the EU but would retain strong economic ties, make budgetary contributions, and allow free movement of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35902778)
Kevin Maguire‏
Verified account
@Kevin_Maguire 2m
2 minutes ago

Sinn Fein's 7 abstentionist MPs next week in Westminster to warn DUP-Con deal jeopardises the Good Friday Agreement and N Ireland peace
Can they take their seats in Westminster and vote against the Government?

richard1960 11-06-2017 14:40
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902787)
You may not like it but hard and soft Brexit have become accepted terminology.
Hard Brexit = leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market.
Soft Brexit=leave the EU but potentially re-join the Customs Union and/or Single Market.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------


Can they take their seats in Westminster and vote against the Government?
Not likely as the MPs wont swear alleigence to the Queen so will not take their seats.

Dave42 11-06-2017 14:57
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902787)
You may not like it but hard and soft Brexit have become accepted popular terminology. My understanding is:
Hard Brexit = leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market.
Soft Brexit = leave the EU but potentially re-join the Customs Union and/or Single Market.

Cambridge University Press's definitions are:
Hard Brexit: a Brexit in which the United Kingdom stops being a member of the European single market and gets full control of its own law-making and immigration
Soft Brexit: a Brexit in which the United Kingdom's relationship with the European Union is a close as possible to what it was before Brexit: In a "soft Brexit", Britain would be out of the EU but would retain strong economic ties, make budgetary contributions, and allow free movement of people.


Can they take their seats in Westminster and vote against the Government?
they will never take there seats in parliament

GrimUpNorth 11-06-2017 15:20
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35902792)
they will never take there seats in parliament
They don't need to take their seats to put pressure on. It's all going to come down to how much Mrs May cares about peace (maybe a bit strong) in NI. At the very least she risks stalling the political process in NI for many years which can't be a good thing.

It's like 2010 all over again - nobody voted for the government we've ended up with so you have to question its legitimacy. The coalition didn't end well for the Liberals and I don't think this will end well for the DUP (and by inference NI).

I reckon we'll be voting again before the years out, probably September.

Cheers

Dave

Kursk 11-06-2017 15:40
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Hmm, a choice between Steptoe as PM and attaining a Government majority. Mrs May is caught between the Devil and the DUP.

Ken W 11-06-2017 16:16
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35902809)
Hmm, a choice between Steptoe as PM and attaining a Government majority. Mrs May is caught between the Devil and the DUP.

I think that Steptoe would be a bettor PM than Teresa May, the sooner she goes the better.

Kursk 11-06-2017 16:21
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken W (Post 35902818)
I think that Steptoe would be a bettor PM than Teresa May, the sooner she goes the better.
Steptoe lost Ken.

Osem 11-06-2017 16:23
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken W (Post 35902818)
I think that Steptoe would be a bettor PM than Teresa May, the sooner she goes the better.
Albert or Harold? :D

Kursk 11-06-2017 16:23
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902822)
Albert or Harold? :D
Hercules :D

Osem 11-06-2017 16:26
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35902741)
Yes he is a loser but a bigger loser is this country as we are stuck with a lame duck prime minister propped up by the DUC and from my experience its not if she goes but when as the infighting has already started to kick off within her party and its going to be very hard to douse the fires of discontent now within her party from my experience.

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------



All it needs is a couple of by-elections now and that majority with the DUC support is gone probably.
... and those dissenters will be having to consider how far they push her and the party because in the event of another election they could find themselves out of a job. Far easier for the likes of Osborne to snipe away like a childish brat from the office of his London newspaper. He has pages to fill and nothing to lose anymore.

OLD BOY 11-06-2017 16:30
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902779)
People are sick of austerity no doubt myself 1% or 0% pay increases in the public services are a joke.

This result means that May probably has not got a mandate for a hard Brexit IE us leaving the single market and customs union so it remains to be seen what happens when negotiations start.

She had better hurry though she triggered article 50 quite some time ago . The clock is running down.
Well, most of us are suffering from austerity, but I'm afraid that's the only way we are going to pay down our debt.

If you max out on your credit cards, austerity in your household will be the name of the game for you, too.

Theresa May still has a mandate for a hard Brexit. For one thing, they remain the largest party in the Commons, and for another thing, Labour's manifesto also called for an end to free movement, so they stand for a hard Brexit, as well.

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken W (Post 35902818)
I think that Steptoe would be a bettor PM than Teresa May, the sooner she goes the better.
Don't be daft, he can't even lead his own party. He'd better make the most of his popularity, it will be short lived.

The majority of people in this country would never vote for a Marxist Prime Minister.

richard1960 11-06-2017 16:36
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902828)
Well, most of us are suffering from austerity, but I'm afraid that's the only way we are going to pay down our debt.

If you max out on your credit cards, austerity in your household will be the name of the game for you, too.

Theresa May still has a mandate for a hard Brexit. For one thing, they remain the largest party in the Commons, and for another thing, Labour's manifesto also called for an end to free movement, so they stand for a hard Brexit, as well.
Well Old Boy pensioners are largely protected from austerity as they had or have a triple pensions lock , i don't have a triple pay lock in the public sector.

Its easy to vote for something that does not affect you so the Tories bought the grey vote..

Maxed out credit cards were not the fault of the young, governments that older generations voted for maxed out the UK credit card , and eventually even the banks went bust.

We will see what kind of Brexit we get literally millions of jobs depend on our trade with them in the UK,and I for one am none too keen on any deal that restricts trade.

Osem 11-06-2017 16:42
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
How very unlike Labour to be total hypocrites:

Quote:
Labour have boarded the outrage bus over the Tories doing a deal with the “bigots and terrorist-sympathisers” in the DUP. They have some nerve…

In 2010 Labour tried to do a deal with the DUP. Gordon Brown wrote a letter to the DUP leader trying to buy his support. The then Northern Ireland Secretary Shawn Woodward worked on an “economic package” to secure DUP support. This morning Alastair Campbell said a deal with the DUP could undermine the peace process. On May 7, 2010, Campbell sat in a meeting where a Labour-DUP deal was proposed.
https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/l...-with-the-dup/

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard s (Post 35902549)
Go Jezza the people have spoken as for the DUP they are more right wing than the Tory's.
Which will be why Labour tried to do a deal with them not so long ago eh? :rofl:

So nice of them to really practise what they preach eh? :rolleyes:

denphone 11-06-2017 16:42
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Theresa May reshuffles her cabinet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2017-40231623

Osem 11-06-2017 16:45
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35902841)
Theresa May reshuffles her cabinet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2017-40231623
She's going to need to find a few aces...

denphone 11-06-2017 16:51
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902844)
She's going to need to find a few aces...
If she is to survive she needs to muzzle her enemies in her party especially Boris as his eyes have always been fixed on that top job.

Osem 11-06-2017 17:08
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35902847)
If she is to survive she needs to muzzle her enemies in her party especially Boris as his eyes have always been fixed on that top job.
It's no surprise that most of the high level undermining or May currently being done by certain Tories is emanating from well known Europhiles like Osborne and Heseltine who're still hoping to derail Brexit. Their party loyalty obviously comes a poor second to their desire to overturn the referendum result by hook or by crook. Appalling really.

richard1960 11-06-2017 17:11
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902855)
It's no surprise that most of the high level undermining or May currently being done by certain Tories is emanating from well know Europhiles like Osborne and Heseltine who're still hoping to derail Brexit.
Your right even though I myself am a Europhile .:shocked:

1andrew1 11-06-2017 17:17
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902855)
It's no surprise that most of the high level undermining or May currently being done by certain Tories is emanating from well know Europhiles like Osborne and Heseltine who're still hoping to derail Brexit.
The hard Brexiteers are giving her grief; these are the same people who caused Cameron to plunge the country into years of chaos by calling the Brexit referendum to sort them out once and for all.
The grief May is getting from May and Heseltine is self-inflicted and due to the way in which she unnecessarily humiliated them and they've not forgotten or forgiven her. This was one reason why May's advisers were unpopular - they wanted to get revenge on May's enemies and not build bridges which is politically more astute.

Bit more on those people giving May grief here. https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/stat...22323903938561

denphone 11-06-2017 17:17
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902855)
It's no surprise that most of the high level undermining or May currently being done by certain Tories is emanating from well know Europhiles like Osborne and Heseltine who're still hoping to derail Brexit.
Osborne is quite clearly out to get May after being sacked as chancellor as he has never forgiven her and now as editor of a certain newspaper he has been given free rein to aim his poisonous barbs at her..

Osem 11-06-2017 17:26
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35902858)
Osborne is quite clearly out to get May after being sacked as chancellor as he has never forgiven her and now as editor of a certain newspaper he has been given free rein to aim his poisonous barbs at her..
His sacking is clearly also linked to his venom but the big factor in what he's doing now is Brexit IMHO. If May were on the same side and struggling to keep the UK in the EU he'd keep his mouth shut.

OLD BOY 11-06-2017 17:28
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902834)

Well Old Boy pensioners are largely protected from austerity as they had or have a triple pensions lock , i don't have a triple pay lock in the public sector.

Its easy to vote for something that does not affect you so the Tories bought the grey vote..

Maxed out credit cards were not the fault of the young, governments that older generations voted for maxed out the UK credit card , and eventually even the banks went bust.

We will see what kind of Brexit we get literally millions of jobs depend on our trade with them in the UK,and I for one am none too keen on any deal that restricts trade.
You seem to forget that the triple lock was established in an effort to reduce the abject poverty that pensioners who did not also have an adequate occupational pension were experiencing.

The mistake that was made was that it wasn't means tested, so better off pensioners got the benefit as well.

I have experienced myself the restrictions on pay rises in the public sector since the crash, but I know that this has been necessary because witnout it, the debt will just continue rising. Sooner or later, if that debt was not brought down, the economy would crash and we would find ourselves in a worse position than Greece. Is that really what you want?

As for maxed out credit cards, I think you have misinterpreted what I said. We all have to manage our finances as householders. Some people only seem to learn that they cannot spend, spend, spend without having to pick up the consequences later when the banks suddenly don't give them any more money and demand repayment. It is no different with the national economy.

If we endorse Corbyn's solution, poverty will be the name of the game for the young people of today who will inherit the mess. Corbyn doesn't have to worry. he will be retiring age himself soon!

1andrew1 11-06-2017 17:34
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902860)
You seem to forget that the triple lock was established in an effort to reduce the abject poverty that pensioners who did not also have an adequate occupational pension were experiencing.

The mistake that was made was that it wasn't means tested, so better off pensioners got the benefit as well.

I have experienced myself the restrictions on pay rises in the public sector since the crash, but I know that this has been necessary because witnout it, the debt will just continue rising. Sooner or later, if that debt was not brought down, the economy would crash and we would find ourselves in a worse position than Greece. Is that really what you want?

As for maxed out credit cards, I think you have misinterpreted what I said. We all have to manage our finances as householders. Some people only seem to learn that they cannot spend, spend, spend without having to pick up the consequences later when the banks suddenly don't give them any more money and demand repayment. It is no different with the national economy.

If we endorse Corbyn's solution, poverty will be the name of the game for the young people of today who will inherit the mess. Corbyn doesn't have to worry. he will be retiring age himself soon!
Households and economies cannot be compared from an economic standpoint. They are hugely different.
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co...at-people.html

Hugh 11-06-2017 18:01
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902834)
Well Old Boy pensioners are largely protected from austerity as they had or have a triple pensions lock , i don't have a triple pay lock in the public sector.

Its easy to vote for something that does not affect you so the Tories bought the grey vote..

Maxed out credit cards were not the fault of the young, governments that older generations voted for maxed out the UK credit card , and eventually even the banks went bust.

We will see what kind of Brexit we get literally millions of jobs depend on our trade with them in the UK,and I for one am none too keen on any deal that restricts trade.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/16/labour...-2017-6628153/
Quote:
Labour will guarantee state pension triple lock, as well as the Winter Fuel Allowance and free bus passes.

Rejects proposal to increase state pension age further.

OLD BOY 11-06-2017 18:11
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902862)
Households and economies cannot be compared from an economic standpoint. They are hugely different.
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co...at-people.html
So you link to an article by some random blogger to support that argument, Andrew?

That's the magic money tree that Labour was accused of believing in to spend a fortune to bring their wish lists to reality. Tell me you don't really believe that, Andrew.

You've only got to look at other parts of the world to see what happens if you just print money without a care. Fancy a Zimbabwean type of economy, do you?

RizzyKing 11-06-2017 18:16
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Labour went all out on electoral bribes and still didn't win and if the tories had mounted a barely competent campaign they would have got their majority. That's all by the by and it's no surprise to see the remain group jump on all this to try and manipulate a reversal of brexit they would be happy to see the country burn if it meant staying in their beloved EU.

denphone 11-06-2017 18:23
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35902871)
Labour went all out on electoral bribes and still didn't win and if the tories had mounted a barely competent campaign they would have got their majority. That's all by the by and it's no surprise to see the remain group jump on all this to try and manipulate a reversal of brexit they would be happy to see the country burn if it meant staying in their beloved EU.
And the Conservatives don't bribe the electorate? because l think you will find both parties are culpable on that count.

RizzyKing 11-06-2017 18:27
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Yes they do but this last time labour were clearly ahead in the bribe department.

denphone 11-06-2017 18:31
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35902876)
Yes they do but this last time labour were clearly ahead in the bribe department.
That is what politicians do as many of the public for decades have always been susceptible to politicians using electoral bribes to win their votes at the ballot box whichever party it is doing it.

ianch99 11-06-2017 18:32
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902870)
So you link to an article by some random blogger to support that argument, Andrew?

That's the magic money tree that Labour was accused of believing in to spend a fortune to bring their wish lists to reality. Tell me you don't really believe that, Andrew.

You've only got to look at other parts of the world to see what happens if you just print money without a care. Fancy a Zimbabwean type of economy, do you?
You have fallen into the trap of ignoring an argued response and just resorting to a crude parody to represent your opposition.

Andrew's link had reasoning & references in support of the points he was making. Let's have your article with reasoned arguments that refute that position ..

1andrew1 11-06-2017 18:47
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Awkward!

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35902878)
That is what politicians do as many of the public for decades have always been susceptible to politicians using electoral bribes to win their votes at the ballot box whichever party it is doing it.
Indeed, although the Liberal Democrats probably were more honest than some parties in promising a 1p on income tax that would affect everyone working.

Pierre 11-06-2017 18:49
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902787)
You may not like it but hard and soft Brexit have become accepted popular terminology.t
. Only by people that don't understand anything about everything

Quote:
My understanding is:
Hard Brexit = leave the EU, Customs Union, Single Market.
Soft Brexit = leave the EU but potentially re-join the Customs Union and/or Single Market.

Cambridge University Press's definitions are:
Hard Brexit: a Brexit in which the United Kingdom stops being a member of the European single market and gets full control of its own law-making and immigration
Soft Brexit: a Brexit in which the United Kingdom's relationship with the European Union is a close as possible to what it was before Brexit: In a "soft Brexit", Britain would be out of the EU but would retain strong economic ties, make budgetary contributions, and allow free movement of people.
Why would you vote to " leave" the EU but then be bound by their rules, regulations, the ECJ and pay in to the EU budget.

But not actually be in the EU to have a seat on the Commission, council or representatives in the EU parliament.??????


I think some people, which is unfortunately a lot of people, are really, really, thick. When it comes to this. Even now after a year of debate, they still don't understand.

Can they take their seats in Westminster and vote against the Government?[/QUOTE]

Kursk 11-06-2017 19:00
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35902879)
You have fallen into the trap of ignoring an argued response and just resorting to a crude parody to represent your opposition.

Andrew's link had reasoning & references in support of the points he was making. Let's have your article with reasoned arguments that refute that position ..
And a very enjoyable read it was too right up to the point when the author asks for donations. Quite the little entrepreneur isn't he? The views of a socialist with the acumen of a tory ;)

Ramrod 11-06-2017 19:12
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35902862)
Households and economies cannot be compared from an economic standpoint. They are hugely different.
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co...at-people.html
Point #1 is just completely wrong. Scaling up financial goings on from the household to a country doesn't negate economic realities. It might delay their biting you in the backside by a decade or so but bit you will be eventually.
Point #2......at least when the private sector fecks up heads tend to roll (not always, admittedly)
Point 3......I'm not sure that many think that "House price inflation is good for the economy and creates growth" :confused:
Point 4....." The majority of economists recognise that severe spending cuts are harmful to the economy" ........mainly if, like Brown, you consider the public sector to be 'the economy' :D
Point 5......I'm not sure that many think that "Everyone maximising their self-interest promotes wellbeing" and the argument that "A look at the concept of information asymmetry demonstrates how wrong-headed the idea of humans as perfectly rational economic agents is" is a good idea for a left wing publication since the same argument can be used against communism and socialism
I could go on to points 6 through 10 but I'm losing the will to refute the arguments of someone who is clearly a mental defective.

1andrew1 11-06-2017 19:18
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35902886)
. Only by people that don't understand anything about everything
We'd have got away with fooling everyone that there was no such thing as a soft Brexit if it weren't for those pesky dictionary compilers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35902886)
Why would you vote to " leave" the EU but then be bound by their rules, regulations, the ECJ and pay in to the EU budget.

But not actually be in the EU to have a seat on the Commission, council or representatives in the EU parliament.??????

I think some people, which is unfortunately a lot of people, are really, really, thick. When it comes to this. Even now after a year of debate, they still don't understand.
Some countries like Switzerland and Norway do just this for good reasons. They have calculated that the disadvantages of doing so are significantly outweighed by the benefits. Both countries seem to be doing quite nicely.

Osem 11-06-2017 19:28
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35902893)
Point #1 is just completely wrong. Scaling up financial goings on from the household to a country doesn't negate economic realities. It might delay their biting you in the backside by a decade or so but bit you will be eventually.
Point #2......at least when the private sector fecks up heads tend to roll (not always, admittedly)
Point 3......I'm not sure that many think that "House price inflation is good for the economy and creates growth" :confused:
Point 4....." The majority of economists recognise that severe spending cuts are harmful to the economy" ........mainly if, like Brown, you consider the public sector to be 'the economy' :D
Point 5......I'm not sure that many think that "Everyone maximising their self-interest promotes wellbeing" and the argument that "A look at the concept of information asymmetry demonstrates how wrong-headed the idea of humans as perfectly rational economic agents is" is a good idea for a left wing publication since the same argument can be used against communism and socialism
I could go on to points 6 through 10 but I'm losing the will to refute the arguments of someone who is clearly a mental defective.

:rofl:

1andrew1 11-06-2017 19:59
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Looks like Theresa May has found an entire party armed with Diane Abbott calculators to form a pact with!
Quote:
An email that was worth hundreds of millions of pounds to the taxpayers of Northern Ireland and ignored by the Department of Enterprise has been obtained by BBC Spotlight.
In 2014, a whistleblower sent the email, to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment.
It warned them that the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) was seriously flawed.
In the email, the whistleblower is remarkably clear about where the scheme was going wrong.
The warning was not acted on and the scheme continued on. It was closed earlier this year with a likely overspend of £400m and potentially even more.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38229535

Mr K 11-06-2017 20:02
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Can't believe she's brought Gove back. It's like hiring an assassin to kill yourself.

1andrew1 11-06-2017 20:18
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35902912)
Can't believe she's brought Gove back. It's like hiring an assassin to kill yourself.
Or to kill Boris or keep him distracted!

ianch99 11-06-2017 20:21
Re: The 2017 General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35902889)
And a very enjoyable read it was too right up to the point when the author asks for donations. Quite the little entrepreneur isn't he? The views of a socialist with the acumen of a tory ;)
What has that got to do with the points he makes :) Or are you just trying to deflect attention here ;)


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