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-   -   Virgin Media 70, 150 & 200 Mb Upgrades (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33701250)

Kushan 03-09-2015 12:24
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Indeed and I think part of the reason that has happened is because, historically, uploading has never been a big deal to most people. The vast majority of people mainly download and don't upload a lot. That has all changed in the last few years, first with the rise of youtube and now with the advent of things like twitch, it's becoming more of a necessity and it would seem that Virgin has taken notice. Hopefully 10:1 is back on the RADAR, even if we don't see it for a few years.

qasdfdsaq 03-09-2015 12:28
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35796349)
Hopefully 10:1 is back on the RADAR, even if we don't see it for a few years.
Even if not, 300/20 is fairly close, and way better than the 50/1.5 I used to have a few years back.

Kushan 03-09-2015 14:00
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796351)
Even if not, 300/20 is fairly close, and way better than the 50/1.5 I used to have a few years back.
Indeed, I believe that original switch to 10:1 was a direct response to the changing landscape of internet usage. Sadly, the current ratios probably fall under the "Good enough" category but one can hope that improvements will come. Perhaps DOCSIS 3.1 will make a big leap with it's apparent 25% efficiency gain on the upstream side.

Chrysalis 03-09-2015 14:10
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I expect BT could do 25mbit/sec upload with 10% of people hitting that speed quite easily now, they seem to have left more buffer on the upstream than downstream in terms of sync speed. But I guess also VM could push for that speed as well on their rollout albeit with the risks of congestion.

BT are now banking on their boring g.fast which I think will be quite a slow rollout for those not near a cabinet.

Personally I would rather see 100/100 then say 300/20 or 300/30 and also of course for me good 24/7 performance with no visible contention is better than say blinding speeds at 4am but a fight with the mob for bandwidth at 9pm.

qasdfdsaq 03-09-2015 14:48
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35796381)
I expect BT could do 25mbit/sec upload with 10% of people hitting that speed quite easily now, they seem to have left more buffer on the upstream than downstream in terms of sync speed.
It's something like a 3:2 divide in bandwidth.

Quote:
BT are now banking on their boring g.fast which I think will be quite a slow rollout for those not near a cabinet.
Maybe, maybe not. Those that are near a cabinet are going to see the least benefit so I don't see why they'd be prioritised.

Ignitionnet 03-09-2015 19:04
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796390)
Maybe, maybe not. Those that are near a cabinet are going to see the least benefit so I don't see why they'd be prioritised.
Easiest install of new G.fast kit. Either in existing cabinet or build a new, smaller one next to it and re-use the current cabinet's power and fibre ducts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796390)
It's something like a 3:2 divide in bandwidth.
Bit more asymmetrical than that.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/09/36.png

qasdfdsaq 03-09-2015 21:38
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Fine, 5:2 then.


BUT: If you consider half the D1 band is crippled and the top frequencies (i.e. D3) are the first to go on longer lines, then... Ah screw it. You're right. Again. :sulk:

Ignitionnet 03-09-2015 22:02
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
5:2 is actually about right - people seem to start losing upstream when their downstream drops below ~60Mb so it seems to be around a 3:1 ratio.

Looking at the stats I have recorded across my lines past and present:

Max:
Upstream rate = 21396 Kbps,
Downstream rate = 71320 Kbps

Max:
Upstream rate = 22764 Kbps
Downstream rate = 74204 Kbps

Currently:

Max:
Upstream rate = 21268 Kbps
Downstream rate = 63800 Kbps

As you mentioned, the upstream is clinging on while the downstream is tailing off as the crosstalk increases.

EDIT:

When I was the only connection live on the FTTC cabinet, the stats were:

Max:
Upstream rate = 29421 Kbps
Downstream rate = 98020 Kbps

Kushan 04-09-2015 08:13
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
My experience with DSL has always been the same, upstream seems fairly resilient while downstream tails off quickly.

vincerooney 04-09-2015 09:16
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I'm on 152mb now. I barely get 20MB in peak as I have high utilisation issues. This has been ongoing for 2 years

Cant virgin media attempt to solve these issues around the country before doing stuff like this? as the person on the first page said...its willy waving. nothing more. lets brag on adverts we have all the sport and fastest broadband.

I think my old dongle is faster sometimes

Kushan 04-09-2015 09:22
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35796494)
I'm on 152mb now. I barely get 20MB in peak as I have high utilisation issues. This has been ongoing for 2 years

Cant virgin media attempt to solve these issues around the country before doing stuff like this? as the person on the first page said...its willy waving. nothing more. lets brag on adverts we have all the sport and fastest broadband.

I think my old dongle is faster sometimes
If that's the case, you should report it to Virgin and get a discount on your bill. When Virgin starts loosing money, they take notice.

OhReally 04-09-2015 11:15
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35796494)
I'm on 152mb now. I barely get 20MB in peak as I have high utilisation issues. This has been ongoing for 2 years

Cant virgin media attempt to solve these issues around the country before doing stuff like this? as the person on the first page said...its willy waving. nothing more. lets brag on adverts we have all the sport and fastest broadband.

I think my old dongle is faster sometimes
THIS.

Imagine if VM sold electricity

"you will get up to 240 volts"

You switch on your tv and nothing happens as you are only getting 60v today, the network is "too busy"....try watching it at 4am instead :dozey:

Kushan 04-09-2015 11:24
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally (Post 35796533)
THIS.

Imagine if VM sold electricity

"you will get up to 240 volts"

You switch on your tv and nothing happens as you are only getting 60v today, the network is "too busy"....try watching it at 4am instead :dozey:
That's probably a really bad example, because you will get ~240 volts from your electricity supplier but it can be 230v or sometimes less. Our UPS shows the current from our supplier and it does vary a bit, but the UPS is good in that it "cleans" it to give a constant 240v to our servers.

In any case, poor example aside, every consumer ISP out there does the "up to" thing.

qasdfdsaq 04-09-2015 11:31
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35796456)
5:2 is actually about right - people seem to start losing upstream when their downstream drops below ~60Mb so it seems to be around a 3:1 ratio.
Strictly speaking I was talking purely about the bandwidth allocation at the VDSL layer, on my ECI cab that's almost exactly 5.02:2.

Mind you, I've seen quite large differences from cab to cab, for example max of 82/30 on one line and 108/28 on another.
Quote:
When I was the only connection live on the FTTC cabinet, the stats were:

Max:
Upstream rate = 29421 Kbps
Downstream rate = 98020 Kbps
Not too shabby, though my line is like that when the cab's at 100% capacity :p:

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35796488)
My experience with DSL has always been the same, upstream seems fairly resilient while downstream tails off quickly.
With ADSL(2) that's to be expected, upstream always uses the bottom-most frequencies which have the longest range and least attenuation. Downstream uses everything above the bottom few percent, so degrades more quickly. Bit like cable really.

VDSL(2) works differently, in that the downstream and upstream are interleaved, there's just such a huge overall bandwidth that using a fixed low/high split isn't effective.

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally (Post 35796533)
THIS.

Imagine if VM sold electricity

"you will get up to 240 volts"

You switch on your tv and nothing happens as you are only getting 60v today, the network is "too busy"....try watching it at 4am instead :dozey:
Imagine if that's actually how the real world worked. OH WAIT, IT IS.

You get nominally 240 V RMS, actually it varies from -320 to +320V every second but ignoring that, you are not guaranteed 240V. The target is 240V +/- 10% but can easily be as high as 265V or as low as 220V during normal operation. During busy periods you get brownouts and sometimes you get complete cutouts.

Perhaps you're a bit spoilt where you live but there are plenty of places in the world where electricity cuts out several times a day and always browns out during peak periods.

OhReally 04-09-2015 11:40
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796540)

Imagine if that's actually how the real world worked. OH WAIT, IT IS.

You get nominally 240 V RMS, actually it varies from -320 to +320V every second but ignoring that, you are not guaranteed 240V. The target is 240V +/- 10% but can easily be as high as 265V or as low as 220V during normal operation. During busy periods you get brownouts and sometimes you get complete cutouts.

Perhaps you're a bit spoilt where you live but there are plenty of places in the world where electricity cuts out several times a day and always browns out during peak periods.
Living in the UK as you do else you wouldn't be a VM customer, I've never experienced a brownout. Last power cut was in the early 70's during the miners strike and the 3 day week.

You get the point though.

VM aren't supplying internet in some backwater 3rd world country are they?

If they could supply 90% of the rated speed and stick to it, that would be absolutely fine, heck even 80% all the time would be acceptable.

Between 5%-15% isn't.

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35796538)
That's probably a really bad example, because you will get ~240 volts from your electricity supplier but it can be 230v or sometimes less. Our UPS shows the current from our supplier and it does vary a bit, but the UPS is good in that it "cleans" it to give a constant 240v to our servers.

In any case, poor example aside, every consumer ISP out there does the "up to" thing.
It was slightly contrived, but it makes the point though. :D

Stop It 04-09-2015 11:59
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally (Post 35796547)
Living in the UK as you do else you wouldn't be a VM customer, I've never experienced a brownout. Last power cut was in the early 70's during the miners strike and the 3 day week.

You get the point though.

VM aren't supplying internet in some backwater 3rd world country are they?

If they could supply 90% of the rated speed and stick to it, that would be absolutely fine, heck even 80% all the time would be acceptable.

Between 5%-15% isn't.

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------



It was slightly contrived, but it makes the point though. :D
It's also a terrible example and makes no point.

During peak time and times of high stress (Kettles during the world cup/Corrie specials come to mind) the National Grid has to put inefficient and expensive power plants into use (See here: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30545091) to meet demand. This results in higher bills, and is also why the Eco 7 tariff exists.

If your analogy was correct, we would have 2 charges for Virgin Internet, off and on peak, and pay an extra amount for peak time bandwidth.

As we don't, your point is a little moot.

Your issue with local congestion is a valid one, but if VM only supplied 5-15% of advertised speed to everyone, Ofcom would've slapped them long ago.

qasdfdsaq 04-09-2015 12:03
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally (Post 35796547)
Living in the UK as you do else you wouldn't be a VM customer, I've never experienced a brownout. Last power cut was in the early 70's during the miners strike and the 3 day week.
Lucky you. In Edinburgh I had about 10 brownouts a year and at least 10 2+ hour cuts over 10 years.

OhReally 04-09-2015 12:14
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop It (Post 35796549)

If your analogy was correct, we would have 2 charges for Virgin Internet, off and on peak, and pay an extra amount for peak time bandwidth.
That's the wrong way around.

With the Economy 7 tariff's, you PAY LESS if you agree to use it outside peak hours. Subtle difference.

If VM said, you may only get 1/2 what you pay for, but we'll charge you 20% less...

Rik 04-09-2015 12:15
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Modem rebooted itself earlier today, had an inkling there is probably work being carried out on the network in my area, tested my connection at trusty speedtest.net and on my 152Mb connection I was reaching 170Mb and the modem was itching to go faster!!

Fingers crossed Luton/Hemel will be one of the first areas to be upgraded, if anyone is in the know?

300Mb wowzers that will do me fine, even with traffic shaping! Can see a lot of those Linux Bluray ISOs lined up :D Might need to grab a couple of 5TB HDDs :) (I know eggs/all in one basket) :D

I have to say Virgin Media over my 25 years of using Internet and broadband has been superb!

Good job Virgin Media!

Stop It 04-09-2015 12:20
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally (Post 35796554)
That's the wrong way around.

With the Economy 7 tariff's, you PAY LESS if you agree to use it outside peak hours. Subtle difference.

If VM said, you may only get 1/2 what you pay for, but we'll charge you 20% less...
They do.

If you're affected by high congestion, they issue a fault ref and credit your account (Upon request, it should be automatic frankly) while the fault affects that area.

Eco 7 generally has higher on peak charges (My tariff is 4p/kWh higher than a standard tariff, but my off peak is far lower). It's there to encourage usage outside of peak times, VM could easily do the same thing. After all, part of why they had traffic management was to moderate peak time usage and we all know how they ended.

Pierre 04-09-2015 13:42
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796551)
Lucky you. In Edinburgh I had about 10 brownouts a year and at least 10 2+ hour cuts over 10 years.
The windy mills will fix all that.

Ignitionnet 04-09-2015 15:09
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I see the FTTP work is in progress in Leicestershire. Blaby is one place for the curious. First but most definitely not last.

broadbandking 04-09-2015 19:41
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
There has been some work going on in Dudley as I now have 3 upstreams and 8 downstreams although might of already had 8 downstreams but never 3 upstreams whooop hopefully I get my 200Mb or whatever 100Mb customers get sooner rather than later

OhReally 04-09-2015 21:27
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop It (Post 35796549)
It's also a terrible example and makes no point.

During peak time and times of high stress (Kettles during the world cup/Corrie specials come to mind) the National Grid has to put inefficient and expensive power plants into use (See here: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30545091) to meet demand. This results in higher bills, and is also why the Eco 7 tariff exists.

[snip]
Actually it's a brilliant example and you go on to define it perfectly for me. The National Grid ENSURE they always have sufficient capacity to deliver what you are paying for.

Or to put the current pointless willly-waving in perspective if VM ran the National Grid

"you will get up to 750 volts, but in reality it will be no more than 240!"

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35796581)
The windy mills will fix all that.
That won't work either, it's always lovely warm and sunny in Scotland :cool:

Ignitionnet 04-09-2015 22:40
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35795890)
As long as providers are able to extend the life of copper, they will do so.
https://youtu.be/hzinGd6gXJw

Is why cable companies aren't overbuilding their HFC with FTTP.

Chrysalis 05-09-2015 04:18
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35796456)
5:2 is actually about right - people seem to start losing upstream when their downstream drops below ~60Mb so it seems to be around a 3:1 ratio.

Looking at the stats I have recorded across my lines past and present:
<snip>
yes, generally speaking if someone manages 80 they always have 20mbit up, but lines in the 60s often have 20+ also, so hence me guessing 25 would easily be 10% of lines.

My current attainable sync is 72279/30528. Funny my actual DS sync is exactly same as the attainable.

When my line needed a pair swap and the downstream sync fell to below 50mbit, the upstream was still over 20.

adduxi 05-09-2015 12:36
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796551)
Lucky you. In Edinburgh I had about 10 brownouts a year and at least 10 2+ hour cuts over 10 years.
We get quite a few brown outs as well, enough to kick in the UPS, which in turn emails me to let me know!. They mostly only last under a minute.

SnoopZ 05-09-2015 16:06
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Wasn't sure where to put this so i will dump it here!

VM trialing 4 upstreams?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...ttings-ok.html

Martyn 06-09-2015 01:52
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 35796713)
Wasn't sure where to put this so i will dump it here!

VM trialing 4 upstreams?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...ttings-ok.html
what speeds can 4 produce? o.0

horseman 06-09-2015 03:50
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn (Post 35796787)
what speeds can 4 produce? o.0
122.8Mbps with overheads or 108Mbps usable (max channel width and QAM)

qasdfdsaq 06-09-2015 10:40
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitionnet (Post 35796659)
https://youtu.be/hzingd6gxjw

is why cable companies aren't overbuilding their hfc with fttp.
is that you???

---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by adduxi (Post 35796689)
We get quite a few brown outs as well, enough to kick in the UPS, which in turn emails me to let me know!. They mostly only last under a minute.
Yup, same. And if I'm at the computer my speakers buzz and the lights dim.

Ignitionnet 06-09-2015 12:13
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796806)
is that you???[
Haha no. My job is at most very distantly related to such things.

I work for a vendor of enterprise hardware, not ISP. Haven't worked in service provider space since 2007.

qasdfdsaq 06-09-2015 13:06
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35796819)
Haha no. My job is at most very distantly related to such things.

I work for a vendor of enterprise hardware, not ISP. Haven't worked in service provider space since 2007.
Heh. I was kidding. Somehow the accent reminded me of you though. 'Dacksys'

ianch99 06-09-2015 13:43
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Not sure if this has been posted or not?

More information on new Virgin Media ultrafast products

Quote:
the 300 Mbps product will feature a 20 Mbps upload, and the 200 Mbps service a 12 Mbps upload

broadbandking 06-09-2015 18:11
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I am welcoming as 12Mb upload for free

Chrysalis 06-09-2015 18:22
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
sky have decided to label 50mbit speeds as ultrafast, shame on them.

General Maximus 06-09-2015 18:30
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbandking (Post 35796875)
I am welcoming as 12Mb upload for free
ditto for 20mbits upload

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35796877)
sky have decided to label 50mbit speeds as ultrafast, shame on them.
yeah, bit of a shame considering I was on that 5 years ago

qasdfdsaq 07-09-2015 12:44
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35796877)
sky have decided to label 50mbit speeds as ultrafast, shame on them.
Why is that a bad thing? Terminology aside I thought anything above 30Mbps was classed as "next-gen", "superfast" or "ultrafast" be damned.

1andrew1 07-09-2015 13:10
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telfordcable (Post 35794036)
Current Package: 50Mbps [3Mbps Upload]
New Speed: 100Mbps (6Mbps Upload)

Current Package: 100Mbps [6Mbps Upload]
New Speed: 200Mbps (9Mbps Upload)

Current Package: 152Mbps [12Mbps Upload]
New Speed: 300Mbps (15Mbps Upload)
As subsequently reported, these upload speeds have turned out to be false. The 100Mbps details have not been confirmed but the other figures are 200/12 and 300/20.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7...-products.html

Gavin78 07-09-2015 13:54
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
try GTA V thats around 70gb download

toytown 07-09-2015 14:04
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35796974)
As subsequently reported, these upload speeds have turned out to be false. The 100Mbps details have not been confirmed but the other figures are 200/12 and 300/20.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7...-products.html
Any news on if they are going to be traffic managed like the existing ones?

Kushan 07-09-2015 14:26
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35796961)
Why is that a bad thing? Terminology aside I thought anything above 30Mbps was classed as "next-gen", "superfast" or "ultrafast" be damned.
As far as I know, "superfast" is indeed anything above 30Mbit (or possibly anything above 24Mbit), the definition seems to shift a bit depending on who you ask.

However, I don't think there's any consensus on what "ultrafast" is, it may as well be a made-up term but it sounds better than "superfast", hence you could argue that it's misleading. However, I think you and I agree, the terms themselves are more or less meaningless, even if there's a consensus on what "superfast" is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toytown (Post 35796989)
Any news on if they are going to be traffic managed like the existing ones?
Only upload is currently traffic managed but if I had to guess, I'd say that STM will still be in place for the upgrade. Hopefully they'll up the limits a bit to compensate.

roughbeast 08-09-2015 20:35
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I had a brief outage last night. Looking at my SH2 config today I see that I have been dropped from three to two upstream channels. Given a background of network upgrades I have to say I wasn't expecting that!

US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4
Channel Type 2.0 2.0 N/A N/A
Channel ID 1 2 N/A N/A
Frequency (Hz) 46200000 39400000 N/A N/A
Ranging Status Success Success Other Other
Modulation 16QAM 16QAM N/A N/A
Symbol Rate 5120000 5120000 N/A N/A
Mini-Slot Size 4 4 N/A N/A
Power Level 42.75 40.75 N/A N/A

Skie 08-09-2015 21:05
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I regularly bounce from 1 to 3 upstreams.

General Maximus 08-09-2015 21:42
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I had that dude when they did some maintenance a few weekends ago, as soon as I noticed the drop to two channels (a few days later) I rebooted the shub and came back on 3.

roughbeast 08-09-2015 22:17
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus (Post 35797180)
I had that dude when they did some maintenance a few weekends ago, as soon as I noticed the drop to two channels (a few days later) I rebooted the shub and came back on 3.


---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skie (Post 35797176)
I regularly bounce from 1 to 3 upstreams.
Why would VM do That?

OhReally 09-09-2015 00:38
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 35797191)


---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------



Why would VM do That?
Because the network is sorely lacking in capacity and they are attempting to dynamically load balance?

qasdfdsaq 09-09-2015 04:31
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally (Post 35797201)
Because the network is sorely lacking in capacity and they are attempting to dynamically load balance?
Dynamic load balancing doesn't involve bouncing.

Kushan 10-09-2015 09:35
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I had 3 upstream channels a few weeks ago, for a few days, then dropped back down to 2 and have sat at 2 ever since.

General Maximus 11-09-2015 05:32
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
have you tried a reboot?

Edit: Arse, I have just looked at mine again out of curiosity and I am back down to 2, I have lost my qam64 channels. Maybe they have taken the extra channels away while they do some work for the speed increase next month.

Ignitionnet 11-09-2015 07:58
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
The 3 upstream channel profile was part of the WiFi project. Some room for confusion was put in as the odd area has been moved to 4 upstreams as part of capacity upgrades.

Again as said many times if there's no congestion on 2 channels being on 3 or not makes no difference. When it's necessary they'll be reintroduced.

Likely the change to 2 upstreams was the result of a move back to a 'standard' profile from a WiFi one.

Kushan 11-09-2015 08:47
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Yeah I wasn't arsed about loosing the extra upstream because it was all working just fine and I have no upstream congestion issues. If anything I'm glad to know there's extra capacity there if it's ever needed.

Ignitionnet 11-09-2015 14:11
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35797517)
Yeah I wasn't arsed about loosing the extra upstream because it was all working just fine and I have no upstream congestion issues. If anything I'm glad to know there's extra capacity there if it's ever needed.
Oh those have been there for a while. Most, if not all, areas have 3 or 4 channels, albeit not bonded.

Kushan 11-09-2015 14:22
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Is there a reason they're not bonded? I thought that bonding channels was better than trying to load balance them?

muppetman11 11-09-2015 17:05
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Oh great going off my parents current peak speeds of 10% of the advertised speed they should be able to enjoy 20mbps soon.:D

If they keep upgrading each year one day they may actually get their current advertised speed (100mbps) at peak times , should be around the time their tier hits 1gbps.:D

Ignitionnet 11-09-2015 17:24
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35797578)
Is there a reason they're not bonded? I thought that bonding channels was better than trying to load balance them?
Yes - lowers the maximum transmit power by 3dBmV so modems that were previously okay can become marginal or go offline. Local networks need 'lining up' to ensure as few modems are in this situation as possible before increasing the number of bonded channels.

roughbeast 11-09-2015 17:41
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Since I reported a drop from three channels to two on Tuesday I have had another short outage, this time resulting in the channels being swapped from CH one and two to three and four.

I only mention this because this phenomenon of an outage followed by channel changes is completely new to me here and because it is in the context of an expected upgrade outage on 20th. September and the highly anticipated speed boost. Others have said this 'bouncing' around is an automatic attempt to balance load. My area has been non-contended up 'til now, so I am not convinced that this is routine adjustment.

Ignitionnet 11-09-2015 17:56
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 35797610)
Since I reported a drop from three channels to two on Tuesday I have had another short outage, this time resulting in the channels being swapped from CH one and two to three and four.

I only mention this because this phenomenon of an outage followed by channel changes is completely new to me here and because it is in the context of an expected upgrade outage on 20th. September and the highly anticipated speed boost. Others have said this 'bouncing' around is an automatic attempt to balance load. My area has been non-contended up 'til now, so I am not convinced that this is routine adjustment.
Upstream frequency change at all or just channel ID?

roughbeast 11-09-2015 18:10
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35797616)
Upstream frequency change at all or just channel ID?
Was 46200000 39400000

Is 39400000 32600000

Ignitionnet 11-09-2015 18:49
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Thanks. Wonder if they were adding a channel. Quite possible.

Chrysalis 11-09-2015 19:25
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35797606)
Oh great going off my parents current peak speeds of 10% of the advertised speed they should be able to enjoy 20mbps soon.:D

If they keep upgrading each year one day they may actually get their current advertised speed (100mbps) at peak times , should be around the time their tier hits 1gbps.:D
Brilliant :)

roughbeast 11-09-2015 20:40
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35797624)
Thanks. Wonder if they were adding a channel. Quite possible.
I've had three channels before, as posted here. Are you suggesting they were attempting a fourth channel or a 1, 2, 4? I'll keep this thread posted if I get more channel changes up to and beyond the work scheduled for 20th. Sept.

Ignitionnet 12-09-2015 00:10
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
There may be a 4th channel at 25.8MHz. That's where it usually goes given where the rest of them are. Group of 4 between 22.6 and 49.4, with whatever is underneath for STBs.

alanbjames 12-09-2015 16:41
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Has Virgin released a list of what areas will be upgraded and when yet?

General Maximus 12-09-2015 17:31
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I was wondering about a rollout schedule as well but tbh I don't think they are going to bother with one because from what I have read nearly everywhere is going to be upgraded by the end of the year. Just like modem mode, it looks like that have finally realised how ****ed off everyone gets when they post a rollout schedule which covers a year and a half, only then to put it back even further 2-3 times. If they have got the extra capacity in place now and do get everyone done by xmas I'll be very impressed.

Ignitionnet 12-09-2015 17:49
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I can assure that if you're expecting 300Mb next month you're going to be disappointed :)

---------- Post added at 17:49 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbjames (Post 35797751)
Has Virgin released a list of what areas will be upgraded and when yet?
Just a reminder no-one is getting upgraded automatically. There is no list of where/when yet which is normal, a list may appear in October.

Tricky Trevor 12-09-2015 18:27
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I asked a member of staff in the Virgin Media store in Nottingham this afternoon about the rollout and I was gobsmacked when he told me that "it won't be happening,it is only a rumour"

Unbelievable

roughbeast 12-09-2015 19:05
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky Trevor (Post 35797768)
I asked a member of staff in the Virgin Media store in Nottingham this afternoon about the rollout and I was gobsmacked when he told me that "it won't be happening,it is only a rumour"

Unbelievable
VM store staff know no more or less than us. They spend most of their time selling phones and they have no contact with those who make decisions.

qasdfdsaq 12-09-2015 20:50
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35797764)
I can assure that if you're expecting 300Mb next month you're going to be disappointed :)
November?

Ignitionnet 12-09-2015 20:55
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Before end of year, depending on area.

mmm 12-09-2015 21:02
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35797659)
There may be a 4th channel at 25.8MHz. That's where it usually goes given where the rest of them are. Group of 4 between 22.6 and 49.4, with whatever is underneath for STBs.
I had a brief outage at 6am this morning, can't see any change still have 2 upstream channels including that 25.8MHz one, not sure what was before

Code:
Upstream
        US-1        US-2        US-3        US-4
Channel Type        2.0        2.0        N/A        N/A
Channel ID        20        18        N/A        N/A
Frequency (Hz)        25800000 Hz        39400000 Hz        N/A        N/A
Ranging Status        Success        Success        N/A        N/A
Modulation        QAM16        QAM16        N/A        N/A
Symbol Rate (Sym/sec)        5120000        5120000        N/A        N/A
Mini-Slot Size        128        128        N/A        N/A
Power Level (dBmV)        40.0 dBmV        41.3 dBmV        N/A        N/A
T1 Timeouts        0        0        N/A        N/A
T2 Timeouts        0        0        N/A        N/A
T3 Timeouts        0        0        N/A        N/A
T4 Timeouts        0        0        N/A        N/A

General Maximus 13-09-2015 16:36
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
that is cool, I wasn't expecting it in October, just by the end of the year. My birthday is November 10th so any time around then would be cool ;)

qasdfdsaq 14-09-2015 03:29
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus (Post 35797865)
that is cool, I wasn't expecting it in October, just by the end of the year. My birthday is November 10th so any time around then would be cool ;)
Yes, Virgin Media is deliberately holding your upgrade to give it to you on your birthday.

General Maximus 14-09-2015 07:43
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Thought so

Pierre 16-09-2015 21:30
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Just been looking at the plans to start implementing remote phy come the start of 2017.

As always, not my area of expertise but I am becoming more involved in what happens between the CMTS and the Core Routers.

Ignitionnet 16-09-2015 22:49
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35798435)
Just been looking at the plans to start implementing remote phy come the start of 2017.
Cool. Will improve plant performance and allow more use of WDM to lower fibre count.

Kushan 16-09-2015 22:52
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Can I get an ELI5 what remote phy is? (Before qas answers, I already looked at the Cisco paper and frankly I'm none the wiser).

RainmakerRaw 16-09-2015 23:02
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35798455)
Can I get an ELI5 what remote phy is? (Before qas answers, I already looked at the Cisco paper and frankly I'm none the wiser).
According to 2 seconds on Google:

Quote:
Remote PHY refers to the technique of moving the PHY circuit out of a device such as a CCAP and putting the PHY circuit at the end of a network. Remote PHY builds upon the work started with Modular CMTS (M-CMTS) and Modular Headend Architecture (MHA) at CableLabs.
Tut, obviously...

OhReally 17-09-2015 00:06
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35797789)
Before end of year, depending on area.
Now for the obligatory "which year is that". For the last round my area should have been done Aug 14 finally done in March 15.

Ignitionnet 17-09-2015 00:24
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35798455)
Can I get an ELI5 what remote phy is? (Before qas answers, I already looked at the Cisco paper and frankly I'm none the wiser).
It basically takes part of the line card customers connect to and puts it out in the field. The fibre link between node and hubsite goes from analogue to all digital.

The remote PHY receives 1s and 0s from the hub site, across the fibre link, which it turns into RF for the cable modems and sends down the coax, and it converts RF arriving on the coax from the modems into 1s and 0s to go into the upstream laser.

Chrysalis 17-09-2015 03:17
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Has anyone ever heard of having multiple nodes per street when takeup is really high? or do VM have node sizes that have a minimum size that exceeds that?

Ignitionnet 17-09-2015 08:08
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I haven't specifically though I know there are some very small nodes in the field.

There's no technical reason why it couldn't be done.

Kushan 17-09-2015 08:27
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35798472)
It basically takes part of the line card customers connect to and puts it out in the field. The fibre link between node and hubsite goes from analogue to all digital.

The remote PHY receives 1s and 0s from the hub site, across the fibre link, which it turns into RF for the cable modems and sends down the coax, and it converts RF arriving on the coax from the modems into 1s and 0s to go into the upstream laser.
Makes a bit more sense, thank you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35798480)
Has anyone ever heard of having multiple nodes per street when takeup is really high? or do VM have node sizes that have a minimum size that exceeds that?
There's plenty of instances where two properties next to each other on the same street, with the same post code, are on different nodes. Internally, although Virgin will put messages on the website or IVR saying what post codes are affected by issues, they actually track them via an internal node code, like CCC0 1234, for this very reason.

It's why it's usually pointless checking with your neighbour if their connection is all right or not, because nothing is guaranteed.

Ignitionnet 17-09-2015 09:32
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I think he's asking about nodal areas being so small that a single street has 2 of them all to itself rather than a post code being split across 2 nodes, which can and does happen and is entirely dependent on how the area was built originally.

I've been told that there are student areas where there's fibre basically to the tap as usage is huge, uptake high, and all the houses are HMOs.

broadbandking 23-09-2015 19:57
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35798472)
It basically takes part of the line card customers connect to and puts it out in the field. The fibre link between node and hubsite goes from analogue to all digital.

The remote PHY receives 1s and 0s from the hub site, across the fibre link, which it turns into RF for the cable modems and sends down the coax, and it converts RF arriving on the coax from the modems into 1s and 0s to go into the upstream laser.
Simple as that then

ianch99 23-09-2015 20:16
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Do you think network segments that have outstanding utilisation tickets will be part of the pending tier upgrade?

Ignitionnet 23-09-2015 22:49
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
When they are fixed, sure.

ianch99 23-09-2015 23:01
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35799934)
When they are fixed, sure.
Well, it has been over 3 years now so maybe in another 3 then? :)

thenry 23-09-2015 23:31
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
location?

japitts 24-09-2015 09:51
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35799934)
When they are fixed, sure.
On a related note, will the speed uplift program be likely to have any impact on expected fix dates for outstanding utilisation issues? In either direction :-)

pip08456 24-09-2015 10:32
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by japitts (Post 35799984)
On a related note, will the speed uplift program be likely to have any impact on expected fix dates for outstanding utilisation issues? In either direction :-)
Very much doubt it.

thenry 24-09-2015 11:04
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
The two being intertwined, possibly.

ianch99 24-09-2015 11:06
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 35799949)
location?
headend : sotn
cmts: sotn15

Kushan 24-09-2015 11:36
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Every time there's a speed uplift, the question arises as to whether it'll help congested areas. The answer is usually that "Capacity and speed uplifts can be scheduled together" but the end result is usually that congested areas remain congested, they might get better speeds but they'll still be congested.

qasdfdsaq 24-09-2015 12:07
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35798505)
I've been told that there are student areas where there's fibre basically to the tap as usage is huge, uptake high, and all the houses are HMOs.
Wouldn't be surprised if this happened where I used to live. Usage was always problematic, and not only was everything 5-storey HMOs, the ex-TW area had shared drops as well. You could easily get over 40 users on a single drop.

ianch99 24-09-2015 13:16
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq (Post 35799998)
Wouldn't be surprised if this happened where I used to live. Usage was always problematic, and not only was everything 5-storey HMOs, the ex-TW area had shared drops as well. You could easily get over 40 users on a single drop.
Can you clarify "drop"? Thanks ..

BenMcr 24-09-2015 14:15
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Drop cable I think i.e. the coax cable that runs from a property to the cabinet.

Chrysalis 25-09-2015 10:38
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushan (Post 35799997)
Every time there's a speed uplift, the question arises as to whether it'll help congested areas. The answer is usually that "Capacity and speed uplifts can be scheduled together" but the end result is usually that congested areas remain congested, they might get better speeds but they'll still be congested.
indeed.

When I was on VM basically they treated uplift work as also capacity relief, actual capacity relief was put aside with the claim the uplift work will fix the problem (which it never seems to unless it comes way before modem configs get updated).

alanbjames 25-09-2015 20:22
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
I used to live in the Brynmill area of Swansea which i was surrounded by Student accomedations and u could garentee every 6-9 months virgin would have to add extra bandwith as the area would slow down to a crawl and this was back when 20mb was the maximum, i dread to think at what its like now especially with new student accomedations opening in the area to add the extra 75,000 students swansea uni are expecting after their £460 million new campus is built and almost finished.

roughbeast 25-09-2015 20:26
re: Virgin Media 70, 100 & 200 Mb Upgrades
 
Well, we were promised a couple of hours outage on 22nd September as part of local network upgrades. The letter we received stated that this was preparation for speed upgrades. Unfortunately, nothing happened. No outages have occurred since some channel changes a few weeks ago.

Perhaps the delay was due to the finding of a 1 tonne (Hermann) bomb in the immediate vicinity of the expected works. The exclusion zone and the massive traffic problems may well have made it impossible for work to commence. The controlled explosion that came just before 11pm rattled our windows, but was too late for any delayed work to start.

I may be entirely wrong about this, so I would be interested if any VM insiders can shed some light.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...-bomb-10112097


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