Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You won't be told my dear chap will you.:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

News just in: the linear channels will be saved too. ;)

Look at it this way: of course VOD will erode linear viewing figures. It's a new way of consuming content. People now have more choice, but there are still only 24 hours in a day. The question is, will it prove so convenient that it will completely replace linear broadcast. The eye-poppingly obvious answer is no, it will not.

The reason it will not is that linear platforms offer things that VOD cannot replicate. Much as cinema survived the advent of TV by being able to offer a more immersive experience, showing content whose cost-to-produce was far higher than could be sustained by a TV company, in a context that offers cinema goers a social experience, so linear broadcast TV will survive on its own advantages over VOD.

Some of the key advantages linear broadcast enjoys are:
- Ability to show live events (as identified in the article you found)
- Ability to connect with a passive audience
- Easy access to a mass audience for advertisers
- Ability to offer a version of the cinema's social experience - "water cooler" TV that is viewed simultaneously in sufficient numbers that it can be a discussion point the following day, thus enhancing the broadcaster's brand and the potential reach of their product.

Home taping didn't kill music.
TV didn't kill the cinema.
VOD won't kill the TV.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Only your opinion of course...:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

As are all our opinions and that's why its so interesting sometimes as if we all had the same opinions then life would be boring.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Nope.

Opinions are like rectums: everyone has one.

What I have offered is a logical conclusion based on evidence and reason.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

No one can be 100% sure of what will happen in the future!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

... Which is true, but is not an observation as to the difference between a.n.other opinion, and a reasoned conclusion.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Maybe so, but the evidence that OB has found tends to show the demise of traditional linear viewing, of course we will always have "live" events, mainly in sport imo.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

The evidence OB has found does not contradict what I posted above, and it does not support the argument he has made throughout this thread, that VOD means linear TV will be dead in 10 years.

It would be a mistake to project the current downward trend forwards to a point where it reaches zero. The reasons for the current decline do not support such an assumption. There are, however, plenty of reasons for arguing that a new equilibrium will be reached between various methods of content delivery. I have outlined some of those above.

I could add to that, that companies that own both platform and channel, such as Sky, have a massive incentive to continue to provide their premium content via the linear platforms they own.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Absolutely agree old chap.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Long before the audience for linear TV reaches zero it will be uneconomic to provide them.

This isn't about our individual preferences, Chris, it's about whether sufficient people will still want to watch linear TV with all the alternatives that are being made available.

The point I keep coming back to is that although there is plenty of money to be made from advertising at the moment, the point will come, inevitably, where the audience share becomes so low that the revenue from advertising will be insufficient to support our linear channels.

The key, presumably is to somehow link this advertising with OD content. However, why go for OD if it's riddled with adverts when you can stream your programmes through the likes of Netflix and Amazon without interruptions?

It's primarily the younger generation that will drive this. Those who are longer in the tooth and set in their ways will be dragged along kicking and screaming, no doubt!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Nope. Not inevitable at all.

We still have cinema, we still have radio. In 20 years there will still be a TV schedule.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I totally agree with you on this. CD`S were supposed to kill off vinyl but they survived and indeed seem to be getting more and more popular. Linear tv will stay around for many many years to come,I`m absolutely sure of that.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Yeah, some people just can't seem to wean themselves off the clicks and pops that you get with vinyl, And pay more for the privilege!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

That's entirely their prerogative just like others who download their music or people who buy CD's.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

There probably will always be a place for linear channels but there's no doubt that on demand is on the rise and affecting viewership of normal channels. The ratio is only going to increase in the favour of Netflix-like methods as the years go by and as new platforms appear or more established ones evolve.

It's probably going to take another decade or two to see just how much but even a blind man could see what direction media consumption is headed.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

On demand etc. viewing is no doubt increasing but has a long way to catch up with linear TV and the same could be said for pay tv.

A lot of people will never want to wade through a series of menus. my wife is one, they just want to turn the telly on and go through one menu and find something to watch.

Lets face it recently all the press were going on about Game of Thrones having its largest ever viewing figures. However, when you read on it shows nearly 5 times as many were watching BBC 1 and ITV alone.

I like the option of on demand but it still has a long way to catch up.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Agreed , some people don't realise there is more than one page of channels on the EPG.:D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You keep saying that we still have cinema, cinema is a totally different experience to TV, and I agree that cinema, maybe not in it's present form, but imo there will always be a demand for cinema and the bigger screen. There is no doubt that linear TV is on the slide, what it will be like in 20 years time is anyone's guess.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

That's something both piracy and tivo have in common. Set your favourite shows to automatically download/record then watch at your leisure from an easy to read list. Even with it's very few 'next day after US channels episodes from the likes of AMC' shows that netflix has, still hasn't mastered. their interface is annoying.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You really don't get it ...

Of course cinema is a different experience. That is *why* it has survived.

The ability to switch on a TV and quickly settle down to watch something after a day at work, with the absolute bare minimum of effort, is a different experience to deliberately choosing from a menu of box sets, or setting up preferences for download or whatever, and is one of the key reasons why linear TV will also survive.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I don't get what the problem is with Netflix. On entering you have a row of your recently watched shows, and selecting one takes you to where you left off. There is also a row of 'My List' shows, showing shows you are interested in.

Amazon is similar with 'Recently watched' and 'Your Watchlist'. Now TV is a bit clunkier, but offers a limited 'Recently Watched'. Even Hulu alerts you when there is a new episode of a show you watch. What could be simpler than the above?

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

No, I do get it, as for the part in bold, it only takes seconds to find something that you've either recorded or can choose from a menu, so imo your argument about settling down quickly after a hard days work, and viewing a linear channel quickly, holds no water at all.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Don't get me wrong i use Netflix often, sometimes daily. However i have to jump on the PC to browse for things as the app interface is awful for finding things unless you know exactly what you're looking for via the search.

I look for things on the PC then add them to 'My List' for watching on other devices, tivo for example. My auto recordings on tivo and torrents is just click a button on the remote to go to the recent shows.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You are correct that it only takes seconds. But most people don't do it regardless.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

No, you really don't. As Spiderplant has pointed out, it doesn't matter how few seconds it takes to choose from a menu; the fact is, it takes longer, and requires more active thought, than simply switching on and channel hopping. It is the requirement for active participation that makes VOD a different prospect, and which ensures there will be room for both VOD and linear broadcast TV in the future. They fulfil two different needs.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I do understand what you are saying, Chris, but generally the end result is that you are watching rubbish - or at least programmes that you don't have a particular interest in.

Of course there will always be those who will continue to take this approach, but my guess is that the majority of people will want to select the programme they want to watch when they switch on the TV.

If the majority of people are not as laid back as you in this area, sooner or later there will be an advertising revenue problem as fewer and fewer people make use of linear channels. It's the economics of it all which will drive change.

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

But surely channel hopping is a very inefficient way of finding the programme you want. I wouldn't recommend that at all. Whenever I have channel hopped I have been profoundly disappointed. Even if I find a programme I wouldn't mind watching, it tends to be just finishing by the time I find it!

---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

Live events can also be shown as they happen on video on demand. Just as you can start a recording on the TIVO and then watch the recording while it is being recorded. So that isn't actually an issue at all.

Your third point is the issue. Currently, linear TV provides a mass audience. But if the trend continues and more and more viewers steer away from linear channels, there will no longer be the mass audience that is keeping them alive.

This isn't about your personal preferences sadly, Chris, it's simple economics.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

How can live be On Demand you've been asked this before , your mixing up On Demand which is something stored in the cloud with live streaming.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

OK, I stand corrected. Live streaming, then.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Now TV does both.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

No, it's you that doesn't get it mate, you've an opinion so have I, you don't have to try and force your opinion on someone else just because he/she doesn't agree with it, and the part in bold, deary me, what a load of utter tosh!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I've never done that. Am I in a minority?

I only watch shows that I specifically want to watch.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I think Chris must have a really mind blowing job taking all of his mental energy, MM. He is clearly brain dead by the time he sits himself down in the sofa! :D

Forgive me, Chris, but it does sound rather strange. I'm surprised you have sufficient energy to cope with channel hopping at the end of the day. ;)

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

Channel hopping is such a waste of time. If you actually find a suitable programme, you're in the middle of it.

It doesn't take a lot of forward planning to ensure a really good quality viewing experience.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

People don't need permission to watch rubbish. ;). You may not understand it, you may not approve of it, but it is what it is, and the great British public's appetite for rubbish is insatiable, as the success of multi-channel TV has proven beyond any doubt.

I suddenly realised the other day, what it is you remind me of. You're like one of those late 1990s Apple Mac fans who would always loudly proclaim the superiority of their home computer over any Windows-based PC, and their incomprehension that anyone would deliberately choose to buy anything made by Microsoft (I know this, because I was that man).

It doesn't matter how inefficient it is (in your opinion - in truth, those who do it are getting what they want, very quickly and efficiently indeed). It doesn't matter whether you recommend it. The fact is, it is what large numbers of people want to do with their TV at 8 or 9pm on a Thursday evening.

If you're watching it live, you're watching it according to a schedule and it is, by definition, not "on demand". The fact that it may be delivered across the Internet is neither here nor there.

VOD cannot do live events. When a VOD provider does a live event, they are not doing VOD; they are broadcasting according to a linear schedule. They cannot put the entire 2015 F1 season on Netflix for immediate download. Were Netflix to get in to sports rights, they could only make events available according to a schedule. If you watch it on a delay of even 2 minutes, then you are, of course, not watching a linear broadcast, but a VOD stream.

This has nothing to do with my preferences. It is indeed a matter of economics, but you are misconstruing the economics because you don't understand statistics. You are making extrapolations about the future direction that past events don't support.

I absolutely promise you, linear broadcast TV will still be here in 10 and 20 years, sitting alongside and complementing on-demand services, and most likely other means of content consumption we haven't yet dreamed of.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Only if the majority of viewers agree with your philosophy in 10 or 20 years' time.

The continuing success or otherwise of our linear channels is completely dependent on how many people watch them.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You dismiss channel hopping as a waste of time, but I personally have found a lot of programmes that I have become a fan of purely through channel hopping while bored. Stargate and Babylon 5 spring to mind. Also Buffy The Vampire Slayer to some extent. Actually with Buffy, I had been told by friends I would enjoy it, but they made it sound like a teenage angst type show (like The OC or Beverly Hills 90210), so I figured I wouldn't be interested. Then, while surfing, I watched a few minutes of one episode, and was hooked. Now, I think it's probably in my top 10 favourite TV shows of all time.

You can mock all you want, but the fact is I personally find it quite relaxing in the evening to turn the TV on, and just watch something WITHOUT having to do the (admittedly minimal) amount of thinking required for any on demand service. Yes, you have the recently watched shows list, and "My Shows", but it still requires thought. As the Netflix's recommendations, no matter how long I spend fine tuning their recommendations, 90% of the time, it still recommends I watch shows or films that are of absolutely no interest to me..

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

That's the one true thing you've said. The continuing success of ANY TV platform is dependent on how many people watch it.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

This.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

And that was the whole point of this thread!

When I watch my grandkids confidently finding their entertainment with a remote and the TIVO, it's awesome. They don't have the patience to select linear channels and wait for what they want to see.

In 20 years time, the 9 and 4 year olds will be 29 and 24, and there's a generation before them who are already hooked to the new ways of watching TV. And they will be in their late fifties!

That's why I cannot see the linear channels being profitable in the years to come.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

So your grand kids don't watch anything live on TV? No Cbeebies or whatever kids channels there are on linear TV? Nothing live after school? The 9 year old does not watch anything live on linear TV in the evening?

Do they simply plonk right down in front of Netflix et al and watch the limited supply of old shows on there?

On a lighter note, are you secretly brain washing them into thinking linear tv is not the future?;):D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Oh look, another mod backing up the other mod, how strange!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Linear tv days are numbered that is without a doubt argue with it all you like end of the day more and more people are cutting the cord and using online, why do you think verizon, comcast, dish, hbo have invested heavily in online tv? Because they can see online tv is the future, sky have already invested in online tv with the skygo monthly the ticket. The proof is there in black and white.
Linar tv will not die out completely there will always be some sort of demand for it as for live sports companies like nbc, fox, bein, sky are already proving that people will watch it live online.
One thing is for certain virgin, bt,plusnet, sky etc will have to invest heavily into the structure of their broadband networks, guess what? They already are because they know more and more people are using online services such as Netflix, skygo, blinkbox.
Linear tv will still be here in 10 years but i think it will be very few channels.
Someone said Netflix has a limited number of shows, so does linear tv it's the way rights work.
I can't say much but i am part of a test group for a major provider who are ready to pull out of linear tv and move into online only.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Nail on the head, not head in the sand, well said theone.....:clap::clap::clap:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I think linear tv will be around for many,many years t come. I doubt it will ever disappear completely. We need linear tv for live sports events as already mentioned but also for live news events or indeed news flashes. As far as I know on demand programs can`t be interrupted to inform us of a `news flash` such as a bomb going off somewhere or a member of royalty being involved in a crash,or can they? I guess someone will say they can or will do in the future.
What I`ve noticed more and more of is adverts before and sometimes during on demand programs which really irates me. I know it`s done to cut the costs down but still annoys me!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You should see the ad breaks on USA channels and on demand lol we've got it light compared to them.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'. m sure your'e right and no doubt they'l increase in numbers here too in years to come

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Mod status has nothing to do with it. Look through our posting histories, you'll find Chris and I disagree on a lot. Just not on this.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------

He's right.

They actually have breaks immediately before and after the credits, and while have breaks every few minutes in the programme.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

True, but the adds are much shorter --- on popular US streaming services anyway.

It is possible to spend less time watching a US show that way, than via a UK TV channel, even though there are more adds.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I recalled 4 ad breaks through one episode of the goldbergs which is only a 25 minute show lol.
Although through revenge which is a 50 minute show there was 6 ad breaks each were about 1 minute 45 seconds long, i only know that as xfinity has a countdown at top of screen lol.Also on nbcsports live ad banners pop up at the top of screen quite often

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:34 ----------

This is true i use xfinity more than anything these days gone are my days of torrents (naughty i know).

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Screenshot of nbcsports live ignore the blurriness my phones cam is crap, but it gives you a idea of the advertising in the USA.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I watched nbcsports(n) yesterday for the first time(thanks to you and my new fire tv)
I couldn't believe the advertising banners coming across the top left of the screen every few minutes.
Can't imagine it ever happening here. Or could it?

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I wouldn't be surprised to see uk sports channels with advertising banners in the not so distant future if prices for rights keep sky rocketing.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Thought this chart from Nielsen is worth reproducing:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/04/8.png

Fundamentally, linear TV just doesn't scale in the way that content on streaming services does.

This from Cracked is worth a read too: http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-crappy...dy-saw-coming/.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Interesting chart but I don't know how you come to that conclusion. I suspect the pattern for streaming services would be much the same - a growth of content available, but people still watch the same old.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

This is also a decent read.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I meant more in terms of discoverability. The streaming services provide ways of finding related content that you might be interested in watching but with hundreds of channels it's hard to find entry points to the shows you might want to see.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Further confirmation of the trend away from linear TV. This is a report from the US, but we will surely follow.

Extract

US viewers opt for streaming and binge viewing

April 23, 2015 10.20 Europe/London By Chris Dziadul

Streaming content has overtaken live programming as the viewing method-of-choice in the US. According to the latest Deloitte Digital Democracy Survey, 56% of consumers are now streaming movies and 53% streaming television on a monthly basis, as compared to 45% of consumers preferring to watch television programmes live.

The report also found that younger viewers have moved to watching TV shows on mobile devices rather than on television.

Among Trailing Millennials (age 14-25), nearly 60% of time spent watching movies occurs on computers, tablets and smartphones, making movie viewing habits decidedly age-dependent.

The report in addition found that the trend of binge watching – viewing three or more programme episodes at one sitting – is prevalent, with 68% of consumers doing so today. In fact, 31% of Americans who binge-watch, do so at least once a week, led by Trailing Millennials, who binge watch more frequently than any other generation at 42%.

TV dramas are the most popular television genre to binge-watch, commanding 54% of binge-watchers’ attention; a characteristic more pronounced among females. Additionally, 20% of Americans binge watch comedies, with more being male.

Commenting on the findings of the report, Gerald Belson, vice chairman, Deloitte LLP and US Media & Entertainment sector leader, said: “Personal viewing experiences and the ability to consume media at your own pace is significantly impacting how US consumers value their content devices and services.

“Today, binge-watching, and the ability to watch what we want, when we want, and where we want, is an exciting cultural phenomenon that is shifting consumer behaviours and attitudes towards curating an individual experience.”

Full report here:

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2015/...binge-viewing/

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Using VM as a base point of reference

how many linear channels have launched in last two years?
how many VOD branded areas have launched in last two years?

will this help demonstrate a trend in demise of linear viewing against VOD? I would expect to be able to plot a graph of VOD consumption going up and linear going down to prove one way or the other the arguement and facts but I might be asking too much

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

And what percentage watched live TV on a monthly basis? Talk about apples and oranges!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Sorry OB but you must try harder.:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I thought you'd all be interested to see this. I can't vouch for the information personally!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Another USA company offers a online tv package http://www.aftvnews.com/cablevision-...utter-package/
so far that's verizon, cablevision and dish network.
Comcast and time warner will announce theirs later in the year.
Direct tv are also expected to make a announcement soon.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

are any of them just VOD or does it include linear channels to view online?

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Peter Kay sitcom for full series iPlayer stream before airing on BBC One

Link

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Includes linear as far as i know, i know dish networks slingtv includes linear channels as does playstation vue.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

What we're waiting for OB is for you to set an example and lead the way by cutting the cord and going streaming only. You can even add Freeview to the mix if you like, although that won't be around for much longer according to your predictions! ;):D

BTW, I've already done it, as has theone2k10

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

And yet it's the potential audience for its broadcast on BBC One that justified making it in the first place.

Nice try, but no cigar. ;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Clearly broadcasters are experimenting with different options , If you note I'm not one who's suggested the death of linear in the thread.

In fact earlier in the thread I said ;)

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35753901-post15.html

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Best move i made mate no tv license to pay, no signal breaking up although when my broadband goes tits up that's another story lol.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

this is only available for 4 days, if you miss you going to wait with everyone for the linear broadcast

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I will in the fullness of time, passingbat. I'm just waiting for the content on streaming and on demand services to make this a better option.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Whilst not strictly owing to the demise of linear rather the lack of interest in 3D , Sky 3D will cease broadcasting in June with 3D movies being moved onto Sky On Demand.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Yes it was inevitable MM.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

And is only being done so the Beeb can gauge maximum interest in this sort of content delivery, using a new series with a very popular comedian's name in the title.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Den, do you sleep?.......:sleep::D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

10 till 5 generally every night Sir as l nap for a hour during the day as l get tired pretty quickly these days.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Theone, you are pretty knowledgeable on most things TV (both here and in the states) related.

With these new streaming services launching in the states do you now how much they will cost? Also, do you know how much a top tier TV package equivalent to VM or Sky costs per month?

I genuinely wonder whether cord cutting will actually be a cost effective option in the future, and would like to try find out what the price difference between the two options are.

If you don't know, that's cool. I am just curious as to the costs.

In terms of discussion in relation to the thread, I will throw a couple more pennies in the pot!

In ten years time, IF cord cutting becomes the way forward and people just pay for the services of one company just to watch one series and then cancel said service for a number of months whilst they wait for the next season, I can imagine the TV companies forcing people to take minimum term contracts to stop people abusing the system.
As such (based on my idiotic thoughts), in 10 years I think it will be considerably pricier to pay for numerous streaming services opposed to my current monthly fee to watch all the same content now I could potentially watch simply by changing channel.

Also, the thought of having to stop one app, load another up and look for the relevant program will take much longer and more hassle than simply changing channel on TiVo/Sky equivalent.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Sling from Dish starts from $19.99p/m which is about £14 in uk sterlin, verizon haven't announced a price yet neither have comcast, playstation vue starts from $49.99p/m which is about £31.
I don't see full costs but i get movies, sports, tv for $15p/m which is about £10p/m this includes nbcsports, foxsports, espn, hbo, showtime, cinemax, starz, discovery, histor etc if i use the directtv login i get 90 channels available to me, using the dish hopper app i get 400+ cannels but dish is hit and miss it depends if the guys internet is behaving, xfinity i get 50 channels i find xfinity to be most reliable. The $15 i pay is for all 3 logins it was originally $30p/m but as i've been a long term and loyal customer the guy reduced it to $15p/m for me.
So if i add my broadband, Netflix, vpn and logins all together it comes to £48p/m in total.
I tend to use zingzing tv guide on my pc to see what's on then i just load up the tv service login i need it takes seconds.
For me it has certainly saved me a lot of money as equivalant pack with sky or virgin would be over £100p/m easily.
Once i get details of verizon and comcast prices i will post here :)

Interestingly plusnet now have a link in the members area for customers to place interest in plusnets tv service that will be powered by BT.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Thanks Theone, that is quite interesting. You are certainly making a decent saving, but not everyone will be fortunate enough to get the saving you do on Sony Vue so I guess that makes the cost you pay an unfair guidline to someone like me who would have to pay full whack for Sony TV.
Kudos for the getting the discount though, it's nice to see loyalty rewarded, even if it not is directly from the company! Are the channels you receive all HD?

The vpn is an option I am choosing not to take currently, so in that respect more fool me for not using it.

The following paragraphs are not aimed at you, they are there simply to aid discussion, if anyone wants to continue with it.
Please feel free to respond though, you know much more about this than I do!!

I have just had a look at Playstation Vue and sling and as far as I can see, they both offer linear TV stations over the Internet. Currently they appear to be far from killing off linear TV, simply offering linear channels over the web. So in my eyes, this strengthens the case for linear channels surviving for many years. It might mean the end of the set top box in 10 years, but I don't see it killing linear TV.

I have also seen the pricing and it seems that I would have to pay $70 for the top package on Sony TV and that alone is considerably more than my TV subscription on VM.

Based on all the companies that could potentially offer a streaming service, I fear greatly for the potential costs of watching TV via streaming on demand packages, if it ever happens. I will stick having it all in one from one supplier, if possible!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Sorry i should of been clearer i blame the drink lol, i get directtv,xfinity and dish from someone in USA, Sony vue is a new service launched by sony i don't have that at the moment.
To confirm too xfinity, directtv and dish all stream linear channels too.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I just had this email from plusnet i think linear tv is here for awhile yet.

"Hello,

Thank you for pre-registering your interest in our TV product. We are nearly ready to launch, which we are very excited about.

When we are ready to go, you have indicated that you would like us to contact you. We'll give you a call specifically about our TV service regardless of your other marketing preferences.

Kind Regards,

The Plusnet TV Team"

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I said earlier that Netflix is saying that Linear channels are dying, and pointed out that being an on demand service, they have an interest in making this happen. So, in an effort to be fair, I'd like to point out that Sky are saying that Linear TV is not going away anytime soon.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/new...pblZjneN33O7wW

They also criticise Netflix's commissioning process which seems to rely almost exclusively on data, and seems to have little human intervention. I sort of agree with this. Humans make mistakes but they can also see if a series has potential for improvement if the viewing figures are initially disappointing.. Had they relied exclusively on data, would the BBC have renewed Black Adder? Only Fools and Horses? Both of these had bad first series, with fewer viewers.

Finally, they point out that Netflix have never published any viewing figures, so it's actually difficult to determine if a series is successful or not.

Note: I am not criticising Netflix as such. They've produced excellent programmes (Daredevil) and bad ones, but I find it odd they are not publishing viewing figures if these figures back up their preposition that On Demand TV is replacing Linear.

Before you dismiss Sky as just a Linear provider trying to shore up a failing platform, I'd like to point out that they've invested a significant amount of cash in their on demand provision, and are as active as Netflix in promoting on demand TV.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

But Skys own shows are horrendous, all the original programs I have seen from Netflix haven't put a step wrong. Their data must be working I really enjoyed Marco Polo, Orange is the New Black, House of Cards, Daredevil and really looking forward to the other Marvel shows and Sense.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Sky really are getting worried about Netflix and the like, aren't they.

Probably why I got a 50% off for 12 months offer in my email today.

Netflix don't spend many millions of pounds on, and renew them for further seasons, on shows such as Marco Polo if they aint working for them both from an audience and financial aspect.

Sport is the reason why many people don't cut the cord, and why Sky is so desperate to hold on to it, almost at any cost.

Netflix is a real threat to them for non sports fans.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

This, 100%

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

They've also been throwing out nowtv offers i had a email today offering me entertainment pass for £2p/m for 6 months.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

To be honest I've loved original shows from both Netflix and Sky that said I've also hated original shows from both services.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

According to this report, linear TV is likely to survive the short to medium term but 'longer-term, it will essentially be compulsory for DTH and other pay-TV platforms to offer OTT as a supplementary service, to both increase retention amongst existing subscribers, and signing up new subs based on exclusive content, and effectively becoming a ‘one-stop-shop’ for content as much as feasibly possible'.

This appears to correspond with Liberty Global's view of the future.

I still think that this report understates the speed and extent of the changes that will come, and one only needs to look at what is happening in America to get a glimpse of how things will be going here within the next three to five years.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2015/...ikely-outcome/

Extracts

Linear satellite TV is likely to hold its own for the next few years despite the growing strength of OTT. However, in the long-term it will have to make changes.

Quoting the findings of a report by NSR entitled Linear TV via Satellite: DTH, OTT & IPTV, Satnews reports that the linear satellite TV market will see an increase of over 21,000 channels across both DTH and video distribution platforms by 2024. Indeed, the proliferation of Ultra HD, HD and SD channels, along with a limited impact from OTT platforms, will allow for this growth.

Commenting on the findings, Alan Crisp, Analyst with NSR and lead author of the report, said: “Although OTT platforms have become increasingly mature in North America, elsewhere the development of OTT platforms is in its infancy and is expected to have limited impact on traditional video platforms in the short to medium term”.

Crisp added: “Nevertheless, longer-term, it will essentially be compulsory for DTH and other pay-TV platforms to offer OTT as a supplementary service, to both increase retention amongst existing subscribers, and signing up new subs based on exclusive content, and effectively becoming a ‘one-stop-shop’ for content as much as feasibly possible”.

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Given the range of material available on both Netflix and Amazon, both of which are available for £5.99 per month, I struggle to understand why you think it would be so expensive to have a good range of programmes, Harry.

To be honest, most of the best programmes are on terrestrial TV at the moment, and many of them quickly migrate to Netflix or Amazon.

When you look at the price of the existing pay TV packages, there aren't an awful lot of programmes in there which compete effectively with terrestrial, are there?

When I review my recordings, I am surprised at how few have emanated from Sky or Fox (Sky Movies being the exception). There are some programmes on those channels that we do watch, such as The Walking Dead, but they are so few, it makes me wonder about the value for money we are getting.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Exactly!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Sorry, Spiderplant, I had just edited my post when I saw your response.

The only reason I say that change will come quicker is that viewers will tire of having to sit through endless commercials and wait for their programmes to be scheduled before they can watch them.

The younger generation will adapt very quickly to the rapidly increasing choice we will get from streaming services and the linear channels will no longer be viable as advertising revenue declines.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

But already have to with 4OD, the only way around it I have is to record linear and then watch it. you cant do this with 4OD off the shelf.

It stills needs to be paid for, whether is linear schedule with commercials, subscription with/without commercials and/or product placement, or goverement via taxes somoen needs to pick up the bill.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

But for how much longer will people be content with viewing via broadcast channels? That is really the question. Unless the broadcasters can find a way of adjusting their working models and still make a profit, their days are numbered.

People won't watch OD either if they cannot escape the constant stream of commercials.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

So, you are now posting what many others have been saying all along. that linear tv will continue and the OD services will still be OTT. It's taken a long time for you to get here, but I'm glad you are now here. No-one has denied changes will happen, just simply not to extent you suggested.

Nothing is going to change drastically in the next 3 to 5 years either. Other than Sky etc offering more apps on their STB, which they are doing anyway.

The cost side of things was simply down to theoretically thinking that if, for example, Fox took themselves out of linear TV, and charged £5.99 for their content, I am having to pay an extra £5.99 just to watch The Walking Dead. I imagine they would remove any of their content from Netflix, Amazon et al as well, thus forcing my hand further to pay more if I wanted to watch the same content I used to get in my previous package. Imagine if all content makers did the same and charged the same as HBO GO in the States for example. Will cost a fortune.

Yeah, many of the best shows are on terrestrial, being watched on linear tv with out any major outcry from the TV watching nation demanding change. People do not wait for them to migrate to Netflix before watching them.

Yup pay tv is a bit of a rip off, but that is the way it works. If you want the content from the channels (regardless of how much you actually watch) you pay through the nose for it.

---------- Post added at 18:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

Correct!!!!!! So they will simply revert to linear TV so they can record shows and fast forward through the adverts.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::b anghead::banghead:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You can't with USA services there are 5 ad breaks to a hour 3 to 30 minutes and that is on demand programmes.
Adblock+ will get around most but there are still some such as hulu, cbs and now cw who will not let you view until you disable your adblocker, 4od and itv are the same.
Hulu however will play the adverts regardless of you adblocker being enabled or not.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

How do you know? I tend to agree with OB, a lot of the stat's that he has posted seem to point to the opposite of what you are saying!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Given that the post I replied to, from OB, stated that linear tv will fine in the short to medium term, and will also still be about in the long term as long they offer supplementary services (which some already do) I don't see anything changing massively in 3-5 years.

No one knows what is going to happen in 3-5 years time.

I have never thought that linear TV will disappear like OB suggests though, and his post seemed to back up my thought process.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Nobody knows, but history is a good guide. Nothing has ever changed that drastically in TV in any other 3-5 year period. Why would this be any different?

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I think the questioning is rather how much people are prepared to pay for the flexibility. Commercial helps keeps the cost down and unless an ambramovich style person self funds it (and approved by regulator so doubtful) they are here for very very long time. Take ITV as example

Linear easiest option free but with adverts and not on demand
Could record linear but have to wait and then fast forward
ITV player, on demand but adverts and free
Or £3.99 a month no adverts but on demand

even YouTube puts an adverts at the beginning, spotify free has adverts.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

There was me thinking the £3.49 for 3 months i got was a good offer.

Still when that runs out and GOT is finished i think i'm done with it.
I keep looking to see whats on SA but nothing grabs me. They have House on there all this afternoon.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Harry, I posted that article to indicate how some industry experts were thinking about this, which does not necessarily mean that I agree with the views expressed. I have not said anywhere that broadcast channels will disappear in the short or medium term. It is the longer term that we are discussing, and honestly, I really cannot see how the existing model will survive unless innovative ways of generating sufficient (alternative) income streams are found.

Yes, if the worst came to the worst, we could have all the existing broadcasters providing their programmes via their own streaming services, but they know that people aren't going to subscribe to them all, and this will restrict the number of people watching. So they are more likely to sell their programmes on to the likes of Netflix or Amazon, so you could end up saving money rather than spending more.

There is a fault in your argument about people recording the TV programmes from linear TV rather than watch OD filled with commercials. If everyone did that, why would the advertisers place their ads with the TV stations in the first place?

There are sufficient people still religiously watching advertisements at the present time for this not to be a problem. However, I have outlined in this thread why I don't believe that this comfortable situation will continue.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

The problem is OB, that earlier in this thread you indicated that you think the longer term is something like 10 years.

In the UK, this simply will not happen, if only because the BBC's charter is renewed every 10 years, and the continued existence of the BBC until at least 2026 will perpetuate linear TV as a viable content delivery method.

There is no doubt that 10 years from now, all the linear broadcasters will have a sophisticated on-demand offering, however there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that an imminent end to linear broadcast will be on the cards.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

Oh and by the way, if our Internet usage continues to increase at its current rate, not only will we saturate the current data infrastructure within 8 years, that infrastructure will require the UK's *entire* current electricity generating capacity to keep it lit, within about 20 years.

Both those timescales are worrying, because they challenge the usual pace of expansion in both cases.

There simply *will*not*be* a complete switch to on-demand TV for the foreseeable future, because if at any point in the foreseeable future we were to try to do it, we would find we had neither the network capacity nor the electricity generating capacity to sustain it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...engineers.html