Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Precisely what free benefits do illegal immigrants get? My other half actually works (quite high up) in benefits processing and knows exactly whats claimants are entitled to.

Or, as per usual are you talking utter bigotted, xenophobic nonsense?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

People come here for all sorts of reasons and often work illegally whether they've claimed asylum or not. What they're officially entitled to as asylum seekers will depend on their circumstances but for those who choose to remain under the radar they'll be surviving on what they can earn, beg, borrow or if necessary steal.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

Anyway the Hungarians have clearly had enough of their migrant burden and have taken unilateral action to do something about it:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ux-of-migrants

This problem is global and is only going to get worse.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

But the French are correct to point out that if our benefits system was less cosy then we wouldn't be attracting all these migrants. We are creating this problem.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Again, what benefits do illegal immigrants get?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Immigrants and benefits

Since illegals are not entitled to much in the way of benefits I wonder where all the stories abut them getting money, houses, etc are coming from? Can't just be the right wing press following an agenda?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

No-questions-asked, free emergency healthcare would be one, however I think that's a bit of a red herring.

Most of the attractions are things no Frenchman could ever admit: Britain is a tolerant, open society, economically successful and our native tongue is the nearest thing the world has to a common language.

The other thing is that Britain, and its empire, is/was still generally seen as a benign, civilising influence in the world. Those whose parents grew up with it would naturally see it as a good place to go.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Illegal immigrants who're under the radar get none clearly, unless they're fiddling the system somehow i.e. via false documentation.

The number of asylum seekers, however, includes those whose claims will and have been turned down and during that process, which may take many years, they are entitled to the benefits and support detailed in the link above. Those whose claims are rejected are by definition illegal yet they will have received housing and support whilst going through the various processes, appeals etc. open to them. IMHO anyone who claims asylum here having passed through other safe countries is technically an illegal migrant, having deliberately chosen not to follow the correct procedures. There is no right for asylum seekers to pick and choose where they go. The migrants camped out in Calais have not claimed asylum there, they're clearly determined to get into the UK and no doubt some will claim asylum immediately and others will disappear into the underworld and take their chances. Of course those who claim to be under age and qualify as unaccompanied minors will be treated as a priority and taken into care. As I type I'm listening to a local authority social care worker on LBC explaining that in his experience about 30% of those who claim to be underage are not. According to him the age assessment process is fraught with problems and one of the reasons so many of them claim to be under 16 even when they're patently not.

Many illegals only claim asylum once they've been caught and they do this in an attempt to further delay the process and by so doing hope that they will build family relationships etc. here and qualify to stay. The question isn't whether any of this is understandable (it is), the question is can we carry on allowing it to happen indefinitely because the more who come and are allowed to stay, the more will inevitably follow and the harder it will be to stop them.

The absence of ID cards and a requirement to carry them in the UK is another factor which makes the UK appealing when compared to France.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

mrmistofee I totally resent that remark, totally. I have NO hatred whatever to anyone.

I believe ANYONE can enter this country, My complaint is that l feel for the poor lorry driver who has to put up with each time they travel across the channel.
After watching what was happening yesterday, l was shocked at what was happening

And yes, people do come to this country, as they know they can claim benefits etc etc.

But l can assure you that l am not what you are claiming, and l expect the moderators of this forum to accept my complaint towards yourself for what you have accused me of.

This forum is of free speech, and as far as l am aware, l have not broken the rules of this forum - if l have, l am sure they will correct me.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You have a history of making false claims regarding immigrants and immigration.

Again, what benefits do they claim?

I put it to you that you don't have a clue regarding the what an immigrant can and cannot claim for in this country. You're views instead are formed by such balanced publications as the Daily Mail

The moderators will do as they do as is their right and responsibility.

If you put your head above the parapet then don't go crying when someone takes a shot at it

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

UK Immigration officers are stationed in France in some ports, so any trying to get in with false papers are turned away. So they say.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Sssh lets not facts get in the way of the arguement ;)

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

Has anyone mentioned the huge problems the Italians are facing at the moment?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well there must be a benefit of some kind in coming here or else why bother with all the hassle and just remain in France or wherever.

As a mere UK citizen with a family line officially traced back over 900 years in this country, I wouldn't mind having the right to be housed.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

900 years? You sound suspiciously like a Norman settler to me. Get back where you came from, you flaming immigrant. :p:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The problem is as much one of expectation (possible false or naïve) and experience. Having come so far these people are not going to want to accept that actually things here aren't as good as they think. Having said that the Beeb was interviewing migrants in Calais today and one of them said that he wanted to come here because he knew he'd be given housing like his friends had. I can fully understand why they'd choose to believe the best because accepting the worst would leave them in a very bad place, with no hope of the life they'd decided to pursue.

Has anyone mentioned the problems the Italians are having? Yes several times, including the very first post in this thread. The Greeks and the Hungarians too. The fact that they're having worse problems is all the more reason for us to act, I'd have thought or will some people only feel better when the numbers arriving here in lorries and boats equal those elsewhere?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

OK, an open question, how do 'we' act?

What is it exactly that people want to be done?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Apparently a combination of Norman and Danish.

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

Kick them right out, no appeals required. That includes those already here. Or at least lock them up(not in a holiday camp) as they are ILLEGAL. The ECHR and therefore the HRA don't impose a right to a fair hearing in deportation or extradition cases.

Eventually the message will get back to others and maybe they won't bother trying.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And those that are fleeing places such as Libya, Syria or other places with terrible human rights abuses we just boot them out, yes?

Lest we forget of course the cards we played in places such as Libya and Syria that led people to leave in the first place

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We have to help genuine refugees as best we can and at the source of the problem as much as possible but we also have to accept that we can't save the all the world's needy and vulnerable. Neither can we carry on allowing hundreds of thousands of economic migrants to simply choose to come to the EU for a better life no matter how sorry we may feel for them.

More could and should be done to deal with the traffickers who're making vast sums exploiting these people and think nothing of sending them to their deaths once they've been paid. No doubt they paint a rather different picture of their intentions before they get the money and things go down hill rapidly thereafter.

I don't envy the authorities dealing with this problem - it's massive and the traffickers can often react to opportunities far quicker than they can. We're never going to be able to stop the flow entirely but we do need to adopt new measures which will both dissuade economic migrants and ensure they can be and are removed so that the message slowly gets out that there is no easy life to be had and we will not be 'blackmailed' or 'coerced' into admitting people just because they want to come here. That may well require changes in international law and to human rights legislation.

Like it or not, the Australians have to a large extent solved what was a growing problem there by being tough on migrants whether economic or refugees. That is sad, especially for the genuine refugees, but who can really say that they should just allow themselves to become the destination of choice for the region's countless millions of needy and desperate people?

Whatever people think we should do one thing is undeniable, we can't help everyone who needs it or would like a better life. Rather like a life boat saving people at sea, the only question is at what point are we forced to say no more... :shrug:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If a person enters the UK illegally then hands himself or herself in and claims asylum, will he or she then get benefits during the long investigation process in to there claim and if they do then get benifits what do they get ????

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It's all here including those who've been refused asylum:

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You can't easily kick them out as they often have no papers so where do you move them do? Just pick a random country? Because that country wouldn't be too happy for you to be doing that.

Even if we secure Calais they'll move to just outside Calais and try to get on board earlier. The French can't lock down every piece of open land.

As Osem said we should target the traffickers. However the long-term answer is for the UK and others to work towards making the countries they're fleeing less horrid to live in.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If that is correct thats more than they would ever get where they have come from i would expect. No wonder they want to get into the free bank of UK

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I admit I am surprised at that.

MMMmmm.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It would be a complete nightmare but maybe EVERY vehical should be searched on entry to a secure area of the port before the vehical boards the boat to the free bank of uk.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So basically it's not much different to what a UK born person would get then?

somewhere to live. money. Dr. NHS.

Luxury to them.

You forgot the car.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You could of course make the UK even more horrid....:erm:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Damien got it correct, that's the only proper solution.

Would we all be content if David Cameron allowed the US to fire drone missiles at targets in the UK so long as they're terror suspects? Anyone else killed is merely collateral damage and fine because they got the target.

Take that situation and apply it to places in Pakistan because that's exactly what's happening. Both US and UK drones are letting missiles off the chain at will and whilst taking out countless terror suspects, they've picked up plenty of innocents along the way. Seems to avoid world news pretty well.

That's just one case of the horrid country they live in and why they're so quick to jump ship.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

In actual fact migrants ,legal or illegal ,EU or non EU get very little of our benefits budget


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-benefits.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Watching the Tv news this evening, the problem is now getting well out of hand.
And reading that the migrants tried to board a ferry, and they were hosed on by the crew. Means that they are determined to get to the UK

I know that many members thinks that l have a hatred for them, that's totally wrong.

I believe that the UK is a brilliant country, we are open, we are open to free speech. And yes we have many things going for us.

But, a major problem is that we have an 'open door' compared to other countries.

This cannot be right. I feel for the Lorry drivers that have to go through the terrible problems, such as migrants throwing stones at the drivers etc etc

The government have do something quickly before a trucker goes mad and kills someone - and then who will be the guilty person.

And l don't read the Daily Mail, l read the Mirror

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Two sides of the same coin, Arthur - the Mail tries to inflame its Right Wing readers, the Mirror its Left Wing readers, with material that feeds their prejudices.

They are both very biased, just to different markets...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How many more times. THEY ARE NOT FLEEING LIBYA. They are actually going INTO Libya.:mad: Libya is just a convenient access point to southern Italy, just as Calais is a convenient access point to the UK. Look at those trying to get on the lorries. Not many(if any) Syrians there.



---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Must have missed the bit where as a mere UK citizen that I am entitled to a place to live?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Ah yes Somalia Gambia and Senegal the shining light of human rights

And don't tell me that no Libyans have tried to flee you're talking twaddle

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well you got the car. so I don't know what you're complaining about.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They are not being "bombed" by the West, which is the CONSTANTLY BOGUS accusation. People go to these places on holiday.

How many Libyans in the figures? If it's that dangerous in Libya, why are most of them travelling TO Libya?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I believe that we are now having a go at each other over this matter.

On TV tonight, l saw these migrants trying desperately to get into Lorries. I saw a female with a hood up trying to get into a Lorry, l believe she said that she came from Ethiopia

And also they spoke with a male who has been there for several months - he said he HAS NO FAMILY and he is desperate to get to the UK

I believe WHAT I SEE ON THE NEWS CHANNELS, and please don't say that this is MADE UP FOR THE CAMERA. And some sort of propaganda by the media. This is Happening, and the poor truckers and Holidaymakers coming home are suffering

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It was only in 2011 the US let 105 missiles off the hook and blasted them into Libya, not to mention the ongoing presence of Islamic State in Libya. It's hardly the holiday destination you're making it out to be.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Although many of us might take some of these things for granted, if you come from a country where there is no healthcare, education, benefits, proper housing/services or decent food it's not hard to see why the UK is an attraction. The absence of endemic disease and chaos further adds to the attraction as does the fact that people are not routinely stopped, questioned and required to provide ID in the UK which is not necessarily the case elsewhere in Europe. These people are not stupid - they're following in others' footsteps and are well aware of the UK's problems deporting individuals. They believe that if they can get here they're unlikely ever to be removed and the figures would back that up too. They know that it can take years to process asylum applications and exhaust the appeals process and if they can start to build relationships and even families they know this will make it even less likely that they'll ever be asked to leave. Having children will in turn open the door to more benefits, better housing/services etc.

I can totally understand why people would want to come here and would even risk their lives to do so. It's a tragic situation.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We should change our name to the United Free Bank Of England

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Perhaps we need to view borders as an antiquity? They were formed, defined and fought for hundred of years ago. The world as we know it is completely different to then. We're not just a group of countries anymore we're a global community constantly connected.

Oh god, I sound like a hippy !!!

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We don't remove borders for the same reason that we don't let all and sundry move onto our land or into our homes, just because they want to. Anyone who feels differently and wishes to open up their personal borders and bank accounts is currently at liberty to do so and thereby do their bit for the homeless, desperate etc. Not only that, they can send every spare penny they have to the world's starving and needy if they so wish and thereby feel better about having so much when others have so little. How many people actually do any of that?

In an age where terrorism, people trafficking, drug crime etc. has probably never been worse, I'd have thought we need more stringent border controls not fewer. We also need to decide whether we're going to try to intervene and help in other countries or we just raise the drawbridge and let them get on with it. The latter isn't really an option so I think we can all look forward to more money and resources being allocated to trying to stem the flow of people want to leave their own countries for one reason or another.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And just to slow all things asylum down further:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33113132

Balancing the need to deter false claims and remove those concerned with the desire to help the genuine is always going to be an issue but surely this is just going to give more time and freedom for those who've come here illegally and have no genuine claims to do what they can (e.g. having children) to ensure they'll never be removed.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

On deportation and extradition matters there is no right to a "fair hearing". The European Convention on Human Rights, itself stipulates that. There have even been specific rulings reinforcing that. There is no ECHR and therefore no HRA, requirement to give them any sort of hearing.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

All an illegal immigrant has to do is claim asylum on the grounds of being homosexual or of another religion and therefore at risk of persecution. There is no test to determine if either of these claimed things are true, so they are are granted asylum.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

As with age, if someone claims to be under 16 and it can't be shown that they're not, (difficult with no ID etc.) they're put into LA care (not detained) while enquiries are made (whatever they may be :shrug: ) and tests arranged so they're free to abscond whenever they like. The system isn't worthy of the term, it's a complete joke so full of holes that it's a wonder we don't all fall out.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Obvious illegal entrants found by police are still routinely told to report to an immigration office, then released.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yes. The 'enforcement' action taken often amounts to little more than a PR exercise. I guess they need to be seen to be doing something...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Mate he's right, most Syrians that left went to camps in Turkey iirc. The sub Saharan Africans cross through libya because they have border controls or police to stop them. We're not responsible for Gambia, Senegal etc and look what happens when we try to make countries our responsibility. These migrants are economic mainly and even the Un says we have very different responsibilities towards them

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Most of the time matey we agree quite a lot. But I think we will have to agree to disagree on this part of the statement.

Its kind of leaning towards the below to me.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me


And besides who would pick our lettuce ?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The same people who picked it before mass uncontrolled migration. Failing that maybe we could import more of it thereby providing more jobs in places crying out for them. Of course that'd quite possibly affect jiobs here so once again it boils down to striking a sensible and sustainable balance between trying to help poor countries whilst trying to look after our own people. What isn't sustainable economically or socially is allowing unlimited numbers of migrants to come here for a better life.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They are now that desperate to get to the Free Bank UK they tried to storm the Channel tunnel last night

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-33393593

http://news.sky.com/story/1513113/ca...channel-tunnel

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It beggars belief that a rag tag group of migrants can be allowed to storm the Eurotunnel and nothing really be done. The presence of organised criminal gangs there should be ringing out loud alarm bells and is a clear demonstration that security at the port is totally ineffectual. It seems to me that these people and the associated gangs are breaking numerous laws and causing criminal damage yet getting away with it by being escorted away and simply allowed to try again as often as they want. Regardless of the reasons for leaving their homes, not a single migrant in Calais is fleeing death, persecution or anything else, they could and should have claimed asylum long before they ever got to N. France but have chosen not to do so and as such they are solely responsible for the situation they're in.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Perhaps you have see this before but I found it funny:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Of course, it has nothing to do with the channel tunnel people and/or asylum/benefit claimants.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Actually the main point is they DO have the contacts. That is why they go to wherever they do. They don't turn up in their destination country and then say to themselves, "what now". There are many groups of their "own kind" already there.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Indeed that's the case. We got a cleaner from imigri-land, one year later, the majority of our cleaners are from imigri-land.... a lot quit because the felt left out, they did not speak the lingo, imigri-land-ese ;)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I often wonder whether the great and the good might have a slightly more jaundiced view if it was them who were losing their jobs, having their wages undercut, services reduced or being moved down the housing list as a result of uncontrolled migration.

It's so easy to preach about stuff like this when you're not directly affected or largely insulated from the worst effects.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

A moments reflection would also suggest that many migrants are willing to work for lower wages and simply undercut home grown workers. My brother in law is a decorator and he is being undercut all the time by immigrants.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

An extreme tragic example, yes, they had contacts.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Paywall link

Original report

This report from the same organisation is illuminating.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Those who support uncontrolled migration seem to want to conflate issues and change their argument as it suits. They make bold claims that these people come here to work hard and are doing all the low paid jobs we won't stoop to but at the same time tell us the pay their taxes and are net contributors to UK PLC. :confused: They say that asylum seekers can't claim benefits but don't mention that they are entitled to various relatively generous out of work benefits, child benefit, housing, healthcare etc. etc. which must be a massive enticement to people who're living in poverty elsewhere. They tell us that they're feeling persecution and death whilst they're clearly picking and choosing where they go and where they claim asylum. They claim they're drawn here not because of benefits etc. but because they speak English but then we have numerous examples of 'refugees' claiming they can't read/write/speak a word of English and need interpreters for everything. This system is being abused on a massive scale and anyone who lives in London for example will see just how much immigration there is and how little real integration. Not only is this costing us £££££'s but it is irrevocably changing parts of our country which is I believe what Terence Stamp has been bold enough to say. No doubt he'll be shouted down and labelled a racist for daring to express his opinion.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Source link

What will the lovvies do when one of their own dares to mention immigration in a negative way? :D

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33603993

Certain Eastern Europeans know how to milk the system by doing menial work at low wages for the minimum amount of hours to totally milk the system as it stands.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Anyone who really thinks that benefits here (in/out of work) plus free healthcare, free education and free housing isn't a draw to economic migrants (especially those who claim asylum) must be living on a different planet.

Keeping earnings down clearly avoids tax and increases various benefits/tax credits and other entitlements such as free prescriptions, dental care, school meals etc. I really don't see how migrants in this category are a net benefit to UK PLC.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Someone I know is going back to Africa in November, I asked him if he'd ever come back and he said of course, every couple of years for his health check up. Just had a complete moan at a guy in the garage to, I'm already running late, had no dinner and I get to the garage, he's asleep in the chair which I struggled to wake him up from and he's asking me if a snickers duo is some sort of petrol, boy did he get a telling of, if he didn't understand it he certainly got the gist of it by the end.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33649334

The stakes are gradually being raised and it won't be too long before innocent people die as a result of this madness. By putting up with this nonsense, we're effectively allowing ourselves to be blackmailed into opening the floodgates and only tough measures will put a stop to this. IMHO all the migrants in Calais ought to be fingerprinted and photographed. If they're subsequently detected in the UK they should be immediately returned to Calais - no asylum claims, no appeals, no argument.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Let's just hope they don't arm themselves for a future assault on the tunnel or a ferry.

They'd be here long before we could react accordingly.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Tensions are clearly rising - sooner or later it'll boil over. Letting this simmer away is making matters worse.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33689473

They're obviously not too worried about how robust our asylum system is.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I hope the "Flood Tunnel" button has been installed.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I wonder where it's all going to end?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Probably with politicians waving a magic wand that turns all these illegals into legals with the right to enter the UK to live and work as members of the EU.

Actually that's happening already.... some countries are giving them passports and sending them on their way I have heard. :(

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So we still have an army? :shrug:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Its more of a boy scouts group these days now its been cut to the bone.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Unless they're allowed to open fire to restore order they can do little more than the average burley copper.

Why are the home office morons processing their asylum applications? They arrived through the tunnel or on a ferry from France, a "safe" country so the application is void and should be refused on the spot.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Totally agree. The very reason these people hang around in Calais is because they know their claims, no matter how obviously dishonest, will be processed and in the meantime most of them will be allowed on their way to disappear into the black economy to try to build the family lives they know will help them remain here for good. As I've said before, the only way to stop this is to refuse entry to anyone who's come from places like Calais and return them immediately they're detected.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We are an island and as such the overwhelming number of asylum seekers are bogus. Even if they have arrived via Heathrow, the airport they took off from is unlikely to have been under fire. Even when there is something like a civil war, there will be areas of that country not affected. It's a bit like claiming asylum in the US, because of riots in London.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

While people are effectively given a choice where to claim asylum we shouldn't be surprised that they exercise it by passing through numerous safe countries to get here.

Having said that, with the Greeks and Italians handing out documents and allowing economic migrants to disperse anywhere they like, there's increasingly little we can do about it unless we decide to act unilaterally.

It's as sad as it is laughable that right now the major commercial link between the UK and the continent is being totally disrupted by a few thousand migrants. How much money is this costing us directly and indirectly I wonder? Does anyone imagine that these angry young men are going to become model citizens if/when they finally arrive in the UK. By remaining in Calais and living how they've chosen to, they have shown they have no regard for the law and IMHO there's little chance they'll have any more respect for those of our laws they decide they don't much like in the course of time. How are people like this going to react if/when their claims are rejected and they're detained for removal? Having endured such a lot to get here they're not going to just give up so by admitting them we're just storing up huge problems for the future. It may be unpalatable but we can't carry on allowing thousands of unknown people onto our shores in this manner.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

20,000 fewer than we did have, 81,700 now. And Reservists 19,000 to 21,030, and not the 30,000 they hoped for.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well I'm hearing on the Beeb that there may be an agreement between the French and UK govts. to commence repatriations from Calais to N. Africa. Can't see that working out.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Whilst the Royal Navy ferry them from North Africa back into Italy to have another go at getting into Blighty. :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

At least if the French are the ones dealing with it, then the ILLEGAL immigrants are out of reach of the British "judges" and legal aid lawyers.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They're as bad as the migrants for milking the system.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

No, we're not, not since the channel tunnel was completed.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Nobody's dealing with this effectively. We have a chaotic immigration/asylum system which is routinely abused and the EU is sending out mixed messages to people around the globe. On the one hand trying to do stuff liking keeping budding terrorists out (having stupidly removed internal borders in most of the EU) and preventing citizens from heading off to Syria whilst at the same time allowing large numbers of mainly young men whose origins and intentions are totally unknown to wander around Europe choosing where they claim asylum. If anyone wanted an example of chaos in action this would be it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Go away and read this....

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.a...immigration-uk

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The fiscal impact of immigration and the real impact of illegal immigration and abuse of the asylum system are not the only issues of concern here. There's an increasing security issue here, not to mention the message being sent out to the world's poor that if you find yourself some traffickers you'll eventually get what you want - a new life in Europe. Of course traffickers aren't renowned for telling the whole awful truth to their clients and those clients are only too willing to believe a better life can be had elsewhere - hence the bodies floating in the Med. It's an awful situation.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Is there, can you back this security risk up with some statistics?


Are you implying that most immigrants have criminal tendencies?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well a nice bit of uncontrolled migration plus a sprinkle of asylum abuse is a nice little earner for these people.

What do people honestly think would happen were we to offer an amnesty to the economic migrants in Calais? I have a sneaking suspicion that it might just serve as an inducement for more to come and try their luck. Just a thought...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They're all economic migrants? Source? Or, are you making yet another sweeping generalisation?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33709244

There's not much point having more police there if all they're doing is removing illegals from the so called security area then letting them try again repeatedly and indefinitely.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

This scenario is like a major circle. We have Theresa May saying - sadly there are some migrants that have entered the UK.
Then we have a ex customs officers saying on the radio this morning, that France has more police officers then the MPS, so why cant they do more.

I totally agree, France is being given OUR tax money, to build fencing on the Calais side.

How can you stop migrants from getting into the tunnel if they are that determined.
Remember, British Lorry drivers are being FINED, if migrants are caught on the vehicles
I have a suggestion - those useless water cannons that that Berk Boris, bought. Send them over, and douse them with water. And go in hard.

The Government have been saying for months - that they will something about this problem - are they hell.

Its no good building fences, put some electrified fences up with 'low voltage' so they wont do it again - similar to cows in a field.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

No, link the fences up to the overhead lines: 25,000 volts and they definitely won't do it again.:D

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If this wasn't so serious it'd be laughable. A hundred illegal immigrants made it through the tunnel last night. How's that for security? These people are in France - they're no longer running from anything and the only risk to the lives is their own decision making.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

There's lots of benefits waiting for them here, no wonder they're risking life and limb to get them, and they'll probably get them.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

There are benefits in France too. Their reasoning for coming here seems to be a mix of a incorrect perception of the scale of the benefits, the language and generally a quite tolerant society.

We have to think carefully how to solve this problem. We need to work with the French but ideally we need to deal with the problem at source. I mean it's all very well building more fencing but then they'll just walk further and camp nearer. If we build a fence all around France they'll camp outside France. The worst case scenario is that the French tell us to take our border back to Dover and we can't process security on the French side.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I believe there's a far larger black economy in the UK and that it's far harder to work illegally and exist 'unofficially' in France.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Good point. Not sure how easy it is in France but they do have ID cards so that might help.

Either way someone needs to take leadership and deal with this problem. We're saying they're in France so it's France's problem and they're saying they want to get to Britain so it's our problem as both sides do token gestures while the camps sit there and more travel across Europe to get to it.

Something needs to be done but what that is clearly stumps both Governments. Ideally France would better control the borders but that seems unrealistic given the size of it and they would need to break out of the cross-border deal they have with other EU nations.

Answers on a postcard....

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The simplest solutions would be french detention centres for those trying to sneak in and the most draconian punishments for businesses in this country that employ illegals up to including jailing business owners and confiscating their assets, the proceeds of which could be used to pay our share towards the french detention centres.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Seems rather inhumane and even then you can't keep them in detention centres forever. I think we need to stop the trafficking at it's source somehow, even if that means boots on the ground in Northern Libya, introduce non-biometric ID cards in the UK for work (I don't really see this is illiberal) and then take the Calais immigrants and distribute them across Europe with a focus on states which hitherto haven't had a lot of immigration.

None of these seem easy but we have to address this in a more pragmatic and substantive way then just building more fences. We have to do it sooner rather than later before the French decide we can't have the border at Calais anymore too.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The open door immigration party speaks up. :rolleyes: They're responsible for making the UK a magnet to every chancer who wants a better life. Hypocrites.