Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

No it's not. It's the complete opposite. If that was the case they would send everyone to court to prove their innocence. Instead the onus is on them to proof the home owner is watching tv illegaly before they can proceed.

That is why the tv licence people can do bugger all if you don't let them in, as they can't prove you are watching tv illegally or not. The burden of proof is clearly on their head.

Pretty much everyone who they have taken to court has been people who have admitted watching tv illegaly (often with some excuse which never actually matters) or has let them in to the house to look themselves.

They shouldn't be allowed to harass those who don't need a licence though. Yet they do. You shouldn't have to let strangers in to your house to satisfy their wrong assumptions.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

But in your previous post you said I didn't have to let anyone into my house.

It's has nothing to do with being bloody minded, I don't let anyone into my property. There are no illegal activities going on inside my property but what activities and items that are is no business of anyone else. I will not have anyone looking around my property.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Once it gets to court i agree that the burden of proof is on TVL but prior to that i would assume that it's up to the householder to show they don't need one .



That's the issue right there ,people claim they don't need a licence ,they refuse to provide evidence to back up their claim and then get all offended and persecuted when TVL pay a visit to check on the claim that they don't need a licence .Whether the burden of proof is on the homeowner or TVL doesn't really matter imo ,i would be happy to prove that i don't need one if that was genuinely the case ,only those trying to get a freebie kick up a fuss imo

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

So I'm a liar who's getting live TV for free?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

If you claim you don't need a licence then it is perfectly understandable that someone will visit so that you can show them you don't need one .You don't have to let TVL into your house but surely you can see that it is in your own interests to prove to them that you don't need one because ultimately it will be a visit with a warrant and then there's sod all you can do about it ,so being all defensive about letting people onto your property is only going to cause you problems

---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:46 ----------

I don't know ,are you ?? .There are a few on here who have swore blind that they don't need a licence and then gone onto post in another thread about a favourite BBC program ,180,000 people per year are prosecuted in court for not having a TVL,400,000 per year are caught without one many of who claim they don't need one

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

TVL are not going to visit with a warrant, a court will only issue a warrant if they have a valid reason to believe I am watching TV without a licence. (Unless of course TVL lie to the court)

Saying there is sod all I can do is untrue, the only reason the police forced entry to my property last year was because I wasn't in. The police apparently had reasonable evidence (actually they had no doubt) that I was committing criminal activities, but they ended up with a lot of egg on their face and an officer was been transferred to other duties.

I don't have to prove to anyone I'm not breaking the law unless I'm arrested and charged for a crime.

TVL are unable to gain access onto my property if I am not here to open the gate, they can however post a letter into my outside postbox.

I take my privacy very seriously, as I said my activities are no business of anyone else.

---------- Post added at 23:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:56 ----------

So, have I ever posted about a favourite BBC program?

I wonder how many times I have commented on recent TV programs. Even if I did, how would that mean I have means of watching TV at home?

My partner does have a TV at her house where I spend about half of my time. (I rarely watch TV when I'm there because it just doesn't interest me)

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

You are wrong. The householder doesn't need to prove they don't need one. They can slam the door on the TV inspector face if they want if the licence inspector has no proof. They have no legal right to enter your home and can only do so with your permission, no matter how scary they try and sound.

Only if they have reasonable evidence a crime is being committed may they enter your home with a police officer present. This rarely happens.

Therefore one has to assume that the burden of proof is on them to show you are committing a crime rather than harass people based on a computer generated list that doesnt know if they watch tv or not.

---------- Post added at 23:37 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------

You can watch BBC programmes without needing a licence. You just cannot watch them live or record them live in a household without a tv licence. Watching those programmes at someone else's house or on a catchup service is perfectly legal and you don't need a licence for that.

More and more people are time-shifting their tv or doing without it completely. They are not all criminals.

Even the so called criminals should not be called criminals for simply not paying a company who broadcasts a signal in to their house without permission. Criminals tend to be people who go out of their way to do wrong, rather than doing nothing.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

your trying to reason with someone who's brain is only wired to recognize one opinion [their own] ...

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Whenever I buy TV/AV equipment (even a DVD player in one instance) for cash (especially at the big chain stores) I'm asked for my postcode. I assume this is for the folk at TVL.

Well, there does seem to be a lot of kit bought for postcode W1A 1AA around here...

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

All of this above just shows that your obstructive attitude is causing you problems ....more fool you

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 ----------

It's in their own interest to show they don't need one ,the efforts people go to ,to avoid showing the TVL authorities they don't need a TVL is astounding .If they put as much effort into showing they are acting within the law and don't need a tvl they wouldn't have so many problems ,i have little sympathy for these people .

---------- Post added at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------

and your still being an A hole

still waiting for that apology by the way

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

No Marty, it's the Beebs attitude... Anyway, carry on giving them your money for content you can get for free elsewhere, and I'll carry on saving my money for the things I really need. ;)

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

and what would the "Beebs attitude" be then ?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

We have a divine right to broadcast any rubbish and force you to pay for it even if you never watch it.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

BBC/Capita: "Your address is in our database, ergo you need a TV licence"

Me: "No I don't. My TV doesn't have access to live broadcasts"

BBC/Capita: "Yes you do"

Me: "No I don't"

BBC/Capita: "Yes you do, and we will scare you in to handing over £145.50 because no-one doesn't have a TV, ergo everyone needs a licence."

---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 ----------

Another reason for not allowing some berk from TVL entry in to your home is that they're not exactly technical experts.

For example my TV isn't connected to my freeview aerial, but is connected to a freesat box that's connected to a dish, ergo I need a licence as I can receive live broadcasts.

Now, If I were to disconnect that freesat box from the dish, but keep it connected to the TV as it does media streaming, would a TVL berk really understand the distinction?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I think the real problem is that you think your opinion is always right and everyone else with a different one is wrong.

My attitude is not obstructive, I let into my home who I choose to let in. The only circumstances where I don't have a say is an illegal forced entry when I'm not present or an entry with a warrant.

I am certainly not going to let a salesman into my property to mooch around and see if I'm using their products.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Marty, stop being a silly Billy ;)

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

That may be your view but it certainly isn't the majority view.

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

Of course i think my opinion is right ,it's called having an opinion .What a crazy thing to say :confused:.

I happen to support the BBC ,i think they produce some really good programing for not a lot of money compared to ,for example, Sky .I do think the BBC has it's problems but i think it should be supported and kept as a public service broadcaster .For those who genuinely don't need a licence then they should have no problem showing the relevant authority the required proof or they will be suspected of cheating the system ,i really don't know why this concept is so hard for some to understand

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Its a simple case of "Innocent until proven Guilty". Its up to the BBC/Capita to prove someone needs a licence rather than said person prove they don't. If I were to roll up to your house demanding to see your TV/AV gear would you let me in?

And as for the licence being cheaper than sky/VM, the massive difference is that I can *choose* to pay for those services or not.

I do support the BBC, and do watch the odd programme from them, but they could do much better with their legally guaranteed £3bn or so a year...

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Yes ,as would most people with nothing to hide

and you can choose to not watch any BBC programs and you can choose not to watch any live tv

This i agree with .

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Then you sir are a very trusting soul. Send me your address so I may make my unannounced visit at a time that suits me.

Of course I can choose not to watch the BBC (I often do). The problem is I have to pay the BBC to watch live broadcasts from satellites and other services that they don't use or contribute to. Saying "well you could not have a TV" is not a valid answer. It might have been back in 1952 when it was the BBC or nowt, but now they are but one player is a global marketplace, but one with a guaranteed, by law, revenue of £3bn on top of the roughly £2bn it makes commercially.

If the BBC is indeed the national treasure we are always told it is, why is it scared of going subscription?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

not so much trusting just not paranoid as hell

It's not a case of being scared to go subscription ,the BBC is a PSB and has legal requirements to produce programming for all genres as do ITV ,ch4 and 5 ,it would be hard to satisfy those requirements if they where a subscription service given how many do not use subscription tv .Now if you are making the case for not needing a PSB in modern times that is a different argument to how the BBC is funded

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

So your argument is that, given a choice, most people wouldn't pay for the BBC?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

No ,the main argument against subscription is that many won't be able to afford it given the rise in cost which is not how a PSB operates .A psb should be available to most of the public which is certainly not the case for subscription tv .Advertising is a method used by the other PSB's
but given the popularity of the BBC it is likely that the other broadcasters would lose revenue to the BBC .

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

If they can afford to pay for a TV licence now, then they could afford to pay the subscription if they chose to. If your arguing that the subscription would be higher than the licence fee, then the only ones to suffer from the fall in revenue and subscriber numbers would be the BBC, who would be forced to either make more popular programmes or reduce the subscription cost to a more palatable level.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Don't the BBC and ITV, C4, C5 have to pay for the transmitters too? So the fee will also cover the cost of transmitters that some use to receive other channels (they also likely need to contribute).

I think the fee is a good, easy and clear way to fund the BBC and keep it free of ads and the like. Subscriptions would be hard to manage. How do you stop people viewing your channels. Our receiver for freeview is fixed inside the TV, no card reader or like (it's an CRT TV). Many others will be in a similar position. No way we'd pay for a new set or box with a reader to switch off BBC if we didn't want it.
Could be controlled via our VM service I suppose which we use most of the time.

But the cost of collecting a subscription would be high and so the subscription would need to be high to cover all those not paying and to collect it.

(Maybe one reason for switching to a civil offence is the change in burden of proof required in a criminal case.)

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

It's not such a crazy thing to say, we all have our opinions but the majority of us respect that even those that have opinions that are wildly different from our own my have a point.

You Sir, in every discussion you get into appear to dismiss everyone else with a conflicting view as being wrong and that your view is right. I have only met one other person who acts exactly the same, and this is because he suffers from a serious case of Autism/aspergers.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

So what you are actually arguing about is abolishing PSB's in the uk not how the BBC is funded .The whole point of the BBC is that it is a public service not a commercial enterprise .

I think that the BBC would take customers from Sky/Virgin there is a finite amount of money available for subscriptions and suddenly introducing an already well established and popular broadcaster into the subscription market will be very detrimental to the existing companies,as would allowing the BBC to advertise .

What make you think that the BBC produce unpopular programs ? you may not like a particular program but that doesn't mean the BBC is producing unpopular programs

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

Of course it is ,you are entitled to your opinion just as much as i am entitled to disagree with your opinion.
I couldn't give a rats ass if you don't allow TVL into your home to prove that you do or do not require a licence but in my opinion it is a ridiculous stance to take and can only cause you or anyone who adopts that approach problems.

and yes i believe my opinion to be correct just as you believe your opinion to be correct

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Even though TVL doesn't have the legal authority to support your opinion.

Perhaps you are suggesting that the law should be changed so private companies can enter peoples premises whenever they please.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Now your talking nonsense ,i know that TVL cannot enter your property without permission my argument is why would anyone refuse that permission if they have nothing to hide .You may so paranoid that you have to shut yourself in and not allow anyone onto your property but most people simply allow companies like the gas/electric/royal mail/TVL etc onto the property to conduct their business with no fuss whatsoever.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

None of these companies need to come into my premises.

Gas meter located outside, so no need for them to enter.

Electric meter read from outside, but I do have this argument every few years when they want access to inspect it internally. (I have told them they should fit the meter outside)

Royal mail, have never needed to, and I have no idea why they would ever need to come into my house to deliver. (I don't have parcels delivered to my address anyway)

TVL certainly have no need to come into my house, if they have sufficient reason to believe I'm lying they can obtain a warrant.

I think you just need to put things into perspective, it's a licence for watching live TV. Making a statement that you don't require the service should be enough, I couldn't care less if the penalty being caught for watching live TV was raised to £100k and 5 years in prison because it doesn't affect me.

I don't have the police knocking on the door because I don't have a shotgun licence, or the civil air authority knocking because I don't have a pilots licence etc. I haven't got these licences because i don't shoot a gun or fly a plane and they seem to accept that without assuming I must be a liar.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Grasping at straws much ?

the reason the police or CAA don't knock on your door is because you don't have a gun or a plane ,if they suspected you did then they would knock on your door .....quite hard .The reason why TVL knock on your door is because there is a high probability of you having and using the required equipment to require a tvl ,despite your extremely naive protestation that your word should be enough ,in 400,000 cases per year people are proven to be liars

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

There is obviously no point in having any discussion with you, you are acting the same as you did in the parking discussion thread.

Either you lack intelligence, have some sort of autism issue or you just get some kick out of attempting to make people take the bait.

Fortunately the law is not under your control, in this country there has to be a reasonable suspicion that someone is breaking a law. Someone not having a licence without actually having any cause to believe they are undertaking an activity for which the licence is required is not a reasonable enough excuse to obtain a search warrant, unless of course the police officer (TVL) is lying to the judge. (Although in my experience with the police this does happen)

I am quite happy to have reasoned debate based on fact with anyone on this forum who has a different opinion to myself, but in your case I don't wish to have any further discussions with you.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Or simply a different opinion ,something you appear to take great offense at .

Insulting me shows you have no respect for anyone's opinion ,it is not the first time insults have been your chosen debating method

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

It's you that don't understand this. It is next to impossible to prove to the BBC licencing that you don't need a licence. Unless you take the receiver out of your tv (invalidating the warrant and making resale impossible) they will consider you guilty and take you to court. Even if you only watch catchup tv and thus don't need one. That is the problem.

So if you don't let them in to your house it is safer legally for the householder, as well as not having to let a stranger in to your house that has no legal right to come in.

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

:tu:

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

just because you may have had a bad experience with TVL doesn't mean everybody does .I would suggest (and i'm not suggesting you are one) that the people who have trouble convincing TVL they don't need a licence are those who belong in the 400,000 per year group .But if you won't let them into your house that is your prerogative just don't be surprised or go on forums complaining that TVL try to get into peoples houses to check their licence or lack thereof

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

You seriously don't get. They have no right to come in to your house and what they do is harassment. You obviously have no idea how it works, even after explained to you. So im with the poster, pointless continuing this conversation with you.

I haven't had a bad experience with them as after initially letting in to my property once many years ago and them seeing I didn't have a tv at the time, I realised that they would still harass me every two years even if shown, so I just ignore their letters and don't let them in. I shouldn't have to deal with their constant threatening letters and knocks on the door though. We don't arrest everyone for shoplifting if they have been in a shop then ask them to prove their innocence, just because some people shoplift. So why should be the BBC licencing be able to accuse innocent people based on the fact some may watch tv without a licence?

Obviously the powers that be agree that not paying the tv licence should not make you a criminal, hence the proposed changes about it becoming a civil offence. Next the licence will be abolished, I just hope they don't add a tax to recordable media or something silly like that to cover it, as again people who don't watch it will be asked to pay.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

:tu:

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I have never argued that they do have a right to enter your house unless with a warrant ,i have simply argued that it is easier to give them the info they want instead of being bloody minded

you may call it harassment but it is actually just them checking that you still don't need one 2 YEARS LATER :rolleyes: honestly what a ridiculous statement

You seem to be under rather naive impression that everyone tells the truth .There has to be a system to check the validity of claims stating "honest guv i don't ever watch telly". 400,000 people per year are found to be in error when making that statement.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Let's pretend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJkg...em-uploademail

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

From following a few links from this thread. I come across this.

To be frank. £145 a year is peanuts compared to the average £700 a year bedroom tax. so shut up you moron.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

It's also peanuts compared to the amount you have to pay for rent or mortgage if the State isn't paying any of it for you. Stop moaning and vote Tory if you want your TV licence fee cut.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Vote Tory. as if.

I don't pay for a TV licence. so there's no gain for me even if it was cut.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Following on from a previous posting. It is correct as stated previously by someone on here that you can watch catch up tv without the need of a tv licence. HOWEVER if you watch it on a tv set it must be unable to receive live pictures because if it does you MUST have a tv licence. The licencing aurthorities wont accept that you are honest and promise not to tune in to any live broadcasts! Watch on a mobile phone? You need a tv licence because again you can watch live tv on them! Laptop/PC? Sorry still need a licence because.....yes you guessed you can watch live tv on there too! I know this because I had a conversasion with a guy from the licencing aurthority a couple of weeks ago and he said as much,and pointed me to the cans and can`ts on the tv licence itself.
My opinion is very clear,it is an unfair tv tax because if you want to watch tv you have to pay it and the BBC get all the money raised. The BBC should get off it`s fat lazy backside and work to raise funds to run their channels through advertising like other channels do instead of relying on hand outs like the parasite they are!
Before someone says it I`m not anti BBC,I think they make some decent programs,I just object to paying for a service with no choice. Rant over!

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Not all that much point in adding to this discussion as it's been done more than a few times now, but you are not correct in this.

I know of several people who do just that and have had no problems at all.

The people who come out to enforce the license may not believe you. That is a different issue to the legality and it's perfectly legal to own a tv that can receive live broadcasts and just use it for tv catchup (as long as it's not live).

Again the key here is the 'live' bit.

It may well be an unfair tax in your opinion but you don't HAVE to pay it. And what with the various catchup services and on demand ones the reasons to become less and less.

Again you DO have a choice, you don't HAVE to pay it. It is though not much of a choice but it is there.

I'd be happy if ALL bbc stuff became subscription only but I don't see it as practical myself.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I like to watch my football live on sky sports and Bt not many hours later on catch up (if it`s available) but to do so I HAVE TO PAY THE BLOODY BBC!
At the end of the day some people are quite happy to pay a tv tax to the BBC,I`m just not one of them.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I didn't say I was happy to pay it. I notice you've also changed your goalposts to include your sport. Fair enough, but as I said you don't have to pay the BBC to watch tv. This is a fact, just an inconvenient one, Shouting and swearing won't change it.

Still, no point in arguing about it is there.

edit - in fairness I should point out I'm one of those who only pay half price so maybe that's biasing me - but personally I don't think so.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Paying the BBC for a no adverts service suits me just fine and that way I get more programmes unlike commercial rich channels where the average programmes are around 45 minutes if the ads
were removed.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

And more repeats. I think I read somewhere that the BBC over this years festive period will show a record number of repeats. Some are welcome of course and I don`t object to them to be honest. As for BBC programs being longer due to no adverts,well for me many many programs on the BBC are simply `padded` out. One more thing, the constant trailers for programs coming up are just as annoying as adverts for me,more so as BBC don`t get paid to show them.
Another thought often occurs to me,why can`t the BBC tv channels become subscription channels paid for through your Virgin or Sky subscriptin? It could be a stand alone subsription or as part of a bundle? This would of course terrify the BBC I think as how many would bother to subscrbe? Perhaps someone cleverer than me could do a poll on here?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I've yet to meet anyone who is happy to be paying tax, on anything.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

First of all sorry for shouting,didn`t realise capital letters meant shouting. Secondly I haven`t moved the goalposts regarding watching football,I just never thought to mention it before as watching football is part of my normal viewing habit. Please do tell me how I can watch live football on any tv channel without having to pay for a tv licence?(the money going to the BBC,hence I`m paying the BBC to be able to watch it!).

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

No - you don't HAVE to pay the BBC to watch TV. If you choose to watch something, for example sport or other things live that's your choice. You don't HAVE to watch anything - you choose to. As I've also said it's not a good choice at all. But it's a fact. Just not one you - or a lot of people - like.

Now as I've said again ;) it's not a good choice and personally i'd much prefer if all bbc stuff was subscription based. However I can't see it happening.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

If I choose to watch live tv then yes I do have to pay the BBC tax! What is so difficult about this that you don`t understand? The only other way is to watch illegally i.e without buying a tv licence.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I fully understand what you are saying - which is different to what you startd your argument with, and you have just answered your own point - you CHOOSE to watch live tv. You don't HAVE to. So that's your answer although I'm sure you don't agree with it but it doesn't change that you don't HAVE to watch tv or pay the fee Again it's not a good choice for sure.. BUT anyway you started your discussion with saying that if you have a device capable of receiving live tv (for example standard TV - laptop - mobile) you need a license (incorrect).

"HOWEVER if you watch it on a tv set it must be unable to receive live pictures because if it does you MUST have a tv licence." - from your post.

Thank you for assuming I don't understand. I won't return the stupid comment. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't understand you.

Anyway I have told you what I think which you clearly disagree with. That's fine, unless you have another specific question I think it's best to leave it there as we are getting nowhere.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

WHEN does this CHANGE come in?

TV lately is CONSTANT repeats. it's LIKE it's on a loop.

YOU can have a TV that is capable of RECEIVING live pictures and NOT have to pay the TAX. it would help IF you didn't have an AERIAL connected to the TV.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I have the full TV package from VM. There are repeats on every single channel all the time not just the BBC and not just at Christmas..At least those on the BBC aren't punctuated by 5 mins of ads at a time.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Is not paying it still a criminal offense. I seem to remember they were going to remove the criminal element of not paying the tax.

Remember one thing here. If you watch Sky tv live you must pay the BBC there tax and they had nothing what so ever to do with production or transmission of that broadcast. Nice easy way for them to pick your pocket.

Why should the BBC be allowed to profit from programs produced by another broadcaster.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

This is my final comment on the matter as we clearly are going round in circles. I choose to watch live tv,no argument there. What I don`t get a choice on is choosing whether I want to watch BBC tv programs. If I had a choice I could opt out of watching BBC channels and the tv tax to the BBC. Now I subscribe to the xl package on virgin and not all the channels I watch but it is my choice to sub to the package. I can downgrade or cancel altogether but I can`t do that with the BBC channels.
As I`ve said before the fairest soloution would be for the BBC to become a subscription channel and/or take adverts. But as I`ve said previously the BBC big brass wouldn`t want that because they`d have to get off their big fat backsides and go out and get advertisers.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------

Do adverts really bother you that much? I use the opportunity to go to the toilet or make a cuppa. when watching a BBC channel I have to either wait till the program I`m watching finishes or miss some of it(I try and make the tea/go to the loo when the program is at the padding out stage). Pausing it is anothr way but then it throws all other scheduled programs out.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Yes they do because they have increased incrementally over the years from about 3 minutes to more than 5 if you leave out the programme updates for the show following the one you are watching.Soon the ads will be longer than the shows they interrupt.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

The thing is, if you force the BBC to go entirely by the popularity of a programme, you are likely to end up with whole evenings of soaps and talent shows and little else at prime time.

Even now, if you watch Saturday night TV you would find it difficult to avoid talent shows.

While popular television and good television are not mutually exclusive, they are not the same thing. It's possible for a good programme to be popular and it's possible that a good programme is not popular. The same with bad programmes.

If you force every channel to be paid for by commercials or subscriptions, you will end up with a very American style TV market.. If you think this is a good thing, I'd wager you've never actually watched TV in America. I have. It's awful, and I speak as a fan of a *lot* of US TV shows. For every show like "The Wire", "The Sopranos", "Homeland" or "Family Guy" there are hundreds of second rate (or worse) comedies, dramas and soaps.. As for their news, every channel is unashamedly biased. At least ours pretend to be unbiased.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I ask again WHY should the BBC be given funding because someone watches a live tv program transmitted by a channel that the BBC has not had any input to. In other words because there live you must pay the BBC there tax money to be able to watch Sky movies or Sky sports and that's wrong. Soon as the criminal aspect of the tax is removed my tax payment to the BBC will be removed.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I had a visit from TVL last week, he didn't seem to have a problem that I wouldn't let him into my premises. I explained that due to work and spending time at my partners I am rarely at the premises, I also explained that I am not interested in the vast majority of programming material on live TV. He asked if I had a TV, I explained that I do but I have no satellite receiver nor do I have any antenna connection to the TV. I also pointed to the TV antennas that I have recently removed from the chimney.

I commented that I'm sure he doesn't believe me because 90% who say they don't watch live TV are probably liars, I was surprised when he said that he thought it was nowhere near that figure these days and that it is more common amongst householders where there are no children present. He didn't ask me to sign anything (probably knew I would refuse) and said I would be taken off the system. He couldn't promise that I wouldn't get anyone else visit or pester, but as far as he was concerned I was not watching live TV.

I did laugh as I commented on the threatening letters I have received from TVL telling me I was going to be interviewed under caution, and I told him that if I didn't want the conversation we were having it wouldn't be taking place.

He seemed quite laid back to be honest, but I guess as soon as he realised that either I was genuine or perhaps there was no sale in it for him he was keen to get away. I guess they may come looking again but at the end of the day they are salesman, if there's not much chance of selling their product why would they waste any more time. If they send an arrogant pushy one I will deal with them accordingly.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Because we're still stuck in the dark ages and keeping up the tradition.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I wonder if it's possible to make a citizen's arrest of somebody who repeatedly trespasses on your property? :D

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

You can write to them removing their implied right of access to your property. To be quite honest I couldn't care less about them calling, unless they become a nuisance.

They could of course be like the pestering pension salesman who called once too often and caught me in a bad mood. I had just mixed a load of cement in the mixer and he expected me to listen whilst he chatted to me about my pension, after pointing out to him unsuccessfully that I was rather busy, he left when I offered to wrap the shovel around his head. I never received another visit from any of their salesmen and when the opportunity arose I moved my money elsewhere.

At the end of the day TVL are selling a product, I wouldn't put up with any more hassle from them than I would a salesman for any other company who was trying to sell me something I don't want.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

What annoys me about TV Licensing is that they send you threatening letters before they even know whether you need a license or not. Then a stranger turns up and demands to enter your home.

I have a shovel ready in case :D.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I have a trusty baseball bat :)

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I just have my fists.
weapons are for wimps :)

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I like the sound of wood on numpty.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Wow you're hard! :D

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

To be fair, the TVL salesman who called on me appeared to be a decent chap. This I undestand is not usually the case, possible due to the nature of their work and the way the company pays them incentives for seling a licence or signing up a direct debit.

I fail to see why TVL are allowed to use sharp practices such as pressure tactics, intimidation and threatening behaviour to attempt to gain payment in instances where the service is not required.

Letter I received Oct 2014 contains:

* 'You are hearby given official notice'
* 'you are committing a criminal offence'
* 'to stop this investigation and avoid penalties for breaking the law please renew your licence immediately'

Letter received Nov 2014:

* 'officers are scheduled to visit from this date'
* 'they will investigate for evidence that you are watching or recording tv'
* 'the reason we are giving you prior warning of the visit is to give you one last chance to by a tv licence'
* 'officers may appy to a court for a d#search warrant if they are unable to gain access to your property'
* 'from 15th December your property is under investigation'

I notice that they now appear to have dropped the references to 'We will be interviewing you under caution', I wonder if they were crossing the line with that one.

I'll see if the visit from the TVL salesman is an end to it. I was pleasant to him and he seemed more than happy, but I will not be so pleasant if I get further threatening letters and another visit.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Satisfying crack of willow on bone. :D

Wait til you get the letter that says "What you need to know in court" addressed to "The occupier":LOL:

They're all computer generated rubbish in a cycle of about 6 one very 4-6 weeks.

In over 7 years only 3 Bozos, door not answered to any. BTW they're now using the hi-viz jacket wheeze to make them look like somebody in authority rather than just a salesman. No doubt to make the unwary open the door to them.:rolleyes:

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

LOL
what a load of rollox.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

The threatening letters are usually sent every month, most people just ignore them.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I found their site impossible to navigate, when I tried to inform them I didn't need a licence it kept sending me around in circles. When I tried to tell them I didn't need one it kept sending me arount the 'Do I need a licence' questions. In the end I just cancelled the direct debit and didn't bother claiming any refund. I think the refund bit is only to get you to contact them so they can try the hard sell again, I did email them and tell them that I didn't need one and stated the reasons but to no avail.

I would not provide them a telephone number and I have heard stories of TVL salemen phoning up in these instances doing a market study about favourite TV progs!

I should have canceled the TV licence when I cancelled my Sky about 5 years ago, I only kept paying to stop the hassle from them. In the past 5 years I have spent very little time at my house, so earlier last year I took the satellite receivers boxed them up and put them away in the attic, took down the TV aerial and cut the cable from the dish. I suppose they could claim I'm watching it live online, but if that's the case surely they just need to apply to the courts to obtain the information from my ISP. Strangely I had an email shortly after cancelling for me to 're-register' for iplayer, which I found strange because I don't think I had ever registered!

It's also principle with me now, I don't like the hassling letters implying that I'm breaking the law and a liar.

Here is the contents of the email about my 'Channel 4 account', as far as I'm aware I have never had one and failed to find any other emails relating to one. I received it 29th September 2014 which was not lon after my licence finally ran out!

We just wanted to let you know that we're planning to close your Channel 4 account very soon.

We're doing this because our Viewer Promise commits us to removing accounts that haven't been used for a long time.
You can still keep your account active if you sign in. It only takes a few seconds, and if you've forgotten your password we can send you a reminder. Remaining one of our registered viewers means you can watch free online box sets of some of our most popular titles and download 4oD shows to iOS and Android devices, to watch whenever – and wherever – you like.
If you don't sign in we'll close your account. But we hope you stay with us!

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

According to the Sunday Post, if youve been fined for No tv license and havent paid the fine, you could be stopped at the airports.
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views...he-uk-1.768944

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

This "inconveniencing" people at airports for non-payment of various fines has been going on for years now.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Whilst those that don't have a UK passport and committed low level crimes are often waved through to see the back of them, but they are not allowed back as in the case of my partners ex husband.

He tried to come back a few years later but was turned back when he arrived. ( She didn't help by ignoring the phone calls from immigration) He just waited another 7 years, re-applied for a visa and was allowed back in here.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Regardless of whether you agree with the TV licence or not the fact is we need one in this country if certain conditions are met,so what makes you think that that TVL shouldn't be able to verify the fact that you say you don't need one .People tell lies you know

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Verify: allow entry into your home because you're assumed to be stupid. a liar. or both.

Verify: assumed to own a TV like everybody else. bit strange if you're not like everybody else.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Yes ,most people are at least 1 of the above

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Which one are you then?

or do you mean only those that don't own a TV?
or those that own a TV but don't use it in the way that would mean having to own a TV licence?
or those that don't need a TV licence but won't allow a company with no legal powers to enter and search your home?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Those who constantly whine about TVL knocking on their door and sending letters but refuse to answer the letters or show TVL they don't need one

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Regardless of what this is for. (a TV)

Would you mind if Tescos were to send an employee around to search your home for a tin of their beans. would you still allow them in even if they don't believe that you buy your beans from Sainsbury's?

Yes it is the same thing.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I suspect TVL have found, from their vast experience of running this operation, that most people who simply ignore them, are trying to avoid paying for a licence that they should have, and that most people who don't need a licence are happy to confirm this with them.

That's a generalisation, of course. There are bound to be people who object on principle to being treated as a potential criminal and therefore ignore all communications from TVL, and are uncooperative should one of their staff pay a visit. However TVL would not take this approach if they believed they were mostly pursuing people who didn't owe them anything. Their operation costs money to run. That expenditure can't be justified if it doesn't result in licence fees being paid.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

The most stupid post you ever posted and not even remotely the same thing

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I disagree. the one with the woman. the 2 dogs and a coke bottle was my stupidest.

That's only because it doesn't happen.
because there's no criminal element involved going through your mind.
and because you made it so. so you don't have to say you wouldn't let them in your home.

would you let them in your home if they did knock your door wanting to see if you have that tin of beans of theirs?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

If Tesco had reason to believe you had £140 worth of unpaid for goods stashed in your house (I.e. something similar to the value of your TV licence - a tin of beans really is a very silly example), then they would most likely tell the police, who wouldn't do you the courtesy of sending you a letter asking you to pay for them before coming round with a warrant.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

So it's all about the value then?
the comparison is silly because it's not of the same value.

but the point still stands.
to prove your innocence. and the assumed guilt. would you allow anyone into your home to satisfy themselves that you are not lying or stupid?

I know someone's going to rush to post something about the law.

so send the police to knock your door and say I want to satisfy myself that you are not breaking the law.
not a salesman.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

No Gary ,it's all about the legal obligation TVL have to enforce the licencing laws ,surprisingly nothing to do with beans

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

They don't assume you're guilty. Based on a range of factors, they assume you can be treated as a suspect, which is exactly what the police do in any other criminal investigation. And as with the police, how far you cooperate with them, as they treat you as a suspect, is up to you. Right up to the point where they decide to kick your front door in.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

There's that law thing out the way.

have TVL brought a warrant?

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Yes ,most people would, i seem to remember you have the same objection to gas men

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I think you're subconsciously making a connection with TVL and the police. Chris.
must be all them scary words they use in their letters :)

TVL will just walk away without touching your door.
even the police think twice about kicking doors in now.

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

So most people would let Tescos in to search for a tin of beans.

I knew you would.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Your obsessed with beans ,get help

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

I'm consciously making a connection between TVL and another organisation responsible for investigating criminal behaviour. You don't have to have a warrant card to pursue criminals. RSPCA inspectors do it all the time.

They may not literally kick your door in, but if they gather sufficient evidence to justify a search warrant, they can certainly do a number on your front door locks.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

Swap the beans for a 50" plasma.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

The problem is that hey make it very difficult to inform them that you don't need a licence, this is only apparent when you try to follow their misleading links on their website. I believe that whatever my views on wether the licence is a good or a bad way of paying to view television is irrelevant, I was polite to the TVL salesman and he seemed happy that I was telling the truth. Their salesmen work on commission so it wasn't in his interest to waste any more time, although I will not be surprised if I have had the last communication from them.

I live on my own and out of personal choice I do not invite anyone uninvited in my house. The only time I have relaxed this rule over the past 9 years is twice allowing the electricity company in because they insisted by law that they had to check the installation to the meter and to check that the meter has not been tampered with. the last time it happened they explained that the meters were being upgraded and I did suggest to them that the meter should be external to the property to avoid access issues in the future.

The only reason that I allowed them access is (a) they would cut my supply off and (b) they would obtain a warrant. I am more than happy for TVL to cut off my TV supply!

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:49 ----------

Well the police did that to my house within the past 18 months and made themselves look like incompetent fools. If they do it on behalf of TVL I will certainly be seeking as much publicity as I can, and instead of letting it go because I am busy I would put in the time effort getting them to pay for the damage they cause.

Re: TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence
 

It really is very simple to fill out the online form 3 clicks from the home page and you are filling the form out


Of course not ,do you really expect them to take your word that you will never ever need a licence in the future ,they will continue checking your status ,or "harrassing" as some say on a regular basis