Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Hmmmm why do you not try because the the dialect it can take a lot longer for any problem to be resolved! or because they do not seem to be able to do a lot over in india, as regards resolving problems ie very often they fob you off i have expierienced this in the past,whilst the uk call centres are more willing to help because they find it easier to understand what you want.

One of the utility companies got so many compliants from customers the retuned to the uk,surely that cannot be just coincidence can it?.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I have just voted in the poll.
I am the most none-racist none-judgemental person you will ever meet. I have worked for local charities welcoming imigrants into my city, and also helped out ilegal imigrants suffering hardship in my local area. Many of these are none english speaking.
I have also setup many internet radio stations over the past 7 years, the DJ's playing from every different country you can imagine, every race, creed, religion, & colour are always welcome.
I also have had to phone up VM's indian call centres many many times, and I have never EVER been satisfied. It is NOT the fact they are in India, and the staff are Indian, it is not even the dialect barrier, it is not anything other than the fact they are not capable of doing their job its that simple.
I have never yet had a resolved outcome from any issue by means of the indian call centres, and I have had to phone up 50+ times so far.....

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Lol, of course I can. Before the poll was even set up, everyone knew what its result would be. This isn't exactly a place full of happy shiny people. The poll was to be used as a tool to prove a point but let's look at the stats: only 182 people have voted (which means well over 3.5m other VM customers haven't) and frankly, it's not even the resounding success you seem to be implying - I mean, even here in grumpyville, 20% of customers are either content or don't care.

Not even Russ, who set up the poll, has referred to it as 'successful' because it's pretty meaningless.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

No, it's because the poll hasn't closed yet. When it has then you'll get my summary.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Fair point, but it wasn't me who started to quote poll figures as 'proof' of anything. When the poll closes it will show about 150 people are known to be unhappy with the call centres. My word.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

When did polls deal in absolutes? They are always samples and percentages as far as I know.

It shows more that 80% are unhappy. Frankly I couldn't care less, I'm unhappy with them to the extent that after wasting my time with them a few times I've only sought support through the newsgroups since.

Unsure why you're trying to belittle either the poll or the overwhelming feeling of posters that VM's offshore centre is unacceptable. That they are taking the axe to thousands of UK staff while continuing the offshoring of jobs leaves a sour taste too.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

It is just a cross section of Virgins customer base but then many polls are non too dissimilar to this one and if you apply the results across the board in the way pollsters do then it would be a high percentage.

I work on the other end of the phone and quite often the relief in peoples voices are palpable when they hear a voice that is obviously not from offshore and many comment on that fact.

Now I know that we have good agents offshore but they get tarred with the same brush and the customer often hangs up and calls again till they hear one of us answer.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Ok. Look, there's no harm in our having differing viewpoints based on our differerent experiences. I'm certainly not trying to belittle the poll or the views of others; I'm simply presenting an alternative view that we've discussed in a civil manner. As I have no wish just to troll or wind anyone up, I'll leave it at that.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I know what you are saying but I work on the sharp end and what I put in my previous post is correct and any other CSR's that read this will verify what I put in that post.

The is only one viewpoint that matters and that is the customer on the other end of the phone and as I said above the relief in their voice when they hear mine tells a story.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I defy anyone to defend the Indian cell centres after this experience I have just had.

I get through to an Indian lady who spoke very good english. I explain how I have been unhappy for a while as the speeds have been getting progressively worse. But that this evening is the final straw as I am on the newsgroups and getting less than 50k download speed - I kid you not.

She then goes on to explain that I have to expect slower speeds in the evening as lots of people use the internet and so speeds slow down somewhat!!!!!!

I try keeping calm and explaining why 50k speeds for £30 a month is simply not on. So she tries talking me through some steps. I decide to see where she is going with this and so admit I have a wireless router (who doesn't these days?) and she asks me to connect my PC straight to the cable modem. (Oh yeah, she has said she has just done a test on my modem while we were talking). I humour her but leave my PC connected through the router as per usual.

She then says to bear with her while she does another test. She restarts the modem from her end and comes back with this "what I can see from my end is that your router is causing a bad signal to your PC and you should but a new one or just connect your PC straight to the modem (seriously, how many people still do that?) - now that you have connected your PC straight to the modem, my test shows that you are getting the full signal (a lie as she obviously hasn't tested for that at all)". She suggests I junk my router and just use wired from now on because routers block the internet signal. So if you are with VM you are screwed if you want wireless it seems ;)

She then asks if there is anything else she can do for me after "solving my problem" and that she hopes I am happy now I have full speed back - I don't of course.

This is where the problems lie. They don't care about lying to customers. They certainly don't grasp that 50k speed is totally unacceptable. Someone from here would have known that even with a busy evening, that speed from a 20meg line is ludicrous. Plus they would have taken it far more seriously when I said I was checking out then best alternative supplier in my area. Which seems to be BE - only 8 meg, but a few friends who are local say it is rock solid after leaving VM themselves.

A total shambles all round really. And disgusting that they lie through their teeth about whatever tests they claim to be doing at their end. That's is the inherent problem when customer service is based in a country not even familiar with the actual service they are supposed to be providing backup for.

I'll be speaking to retentions tomorrow and getting as much as I can get knocked off my bill until I sort out a new provider. I have had enough of this joke of a company.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

to be fair you 'lied' to her, also , was that 'disgusting', as well ?

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

No it was designed to prove that the Indian Call centres are appalling and don't best serve the needs of the customers.

But hey, I lied so I'll go back to my crappy net service with my head hung low for being so bad as to test whether they were going to genuinely serve my needs or simply go through the motions without fixing anything, proving that the call centres there are next to useless.

Have you ever watched Rogue Traders? You know where they setup problems to catch out dodgy firms? Should all those firms be let off the hook because Rogue Traders setup complaints that weren't genuine in the first place? I often watch that show and think how disgusting it is that they fabricate problems in order to catch out cowboy firms. Everyone involved with the show should be taken out back and shot!

It never ceases to amaze me what lengths people here will go to to defend shoddy customer service - well done!

edit: I think everyone here knows that they can't tell whether you are using a router or not. So the fact they insist in that get out clause time and again is what makes it stick in the throat. In a time where nearly every ADSL provider gives you a free wireless router when you sign up, it is amazing that VM's stock reply is to imply a router is the source of all problems. But don't let that little detail get in the way of any little beef you might have with what I said to them.

It's amazing that after being lied to, fobbed off, told I should expect 50k speeds as being the norm when the net is busy, that someone here picks up on the fact I told a little lie, with no mention of VM's shoddy service (and it was shoddy). Incredible.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

if you lied, you cannot, in my opinion, condemn another person for lying - I thought it incredible you would do so ....

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Sigh - as soon as you call with a complaint, and they ask if you have a router, you know what is coming. B;ame the customers equipment. I had detailed to her that in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning that speeds were better - it doesn't take someone reading off a script tp know from that, that my equipment is not at fault.

So I decided to test her - convincing sounding - desire to fix my problem. But I knew what she would say, and she didn't let me down. I don't see what is wrong with telling a white lie in order to expose the bigger problem.

But don't worry, I'm sure your sainthood will be in the post. Now, where is that ignore button when you need it.

You seriously think that it's ok for them to feed me what they told me because I decided to catch them out. It is not a companies place to tell such outrageous untruths when customers call in with problems. There was absolutely no need for me to plug my pc into my modem, you know it and she knew it. End of story.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

no, I'm saying stick to the facts, forget embellishing the story with trivia & get over the 'she lied to me' whingeing, in order to, hopefully, get your problem sorted out ...

ah, yes, ignore list - thanks :)

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

And therein lies the problem - the last part of your post and why I am "whinging". The idea of this thread is to say how happy people are with the call centres in India and if you are satisfied.

If it has proven anything, it is the fact that I won't get my problem sorted, because as long keep getting put through to India, it won't happen. I can't even count how many times I have spoken to them in the past - plugged my PC directly into my modem, gone through every step they ask - and have usually done so before calling them anyway - and then they give me guff about upgrades, or blame my equipment. It never changes. You can call it whinging, I call it being at the end of my tether after humouring them for the past 12 months.

And the problem will only get worse when they upgrade everyone in my area to a minimum of 10meg. I don't want to leave them as it took me ages reading up on how to setup static I.P address for my Xbox 360 and PS3. I dread having to do that again with new equipment but they have left me with no choice.

Go ahead and read back over the past few years of my posts and the troubles I have had with VM. It may be whinging as far as you are concerned - but hey, I think I have earned it.

edit: for what it's worth, I wasn't being serious about ignoring you. I didn't even know they had an ignore button here. In fact looking now I still can't see one. I haven't ignored anyone on the many forums I go on, and I'm not about to start.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I think you're probably ignoring the fact that the agent was just doing their job. Of course, what their job actually is, and what you think it is are almost certainly two different things.

When you call a call centre you want them to do the thing that they do. Flog you car insurance, move money from your account in the Caymans into your checking account, purposefully mislead you as to the nature of the problem with your internet, have you put on some sort of register, the usual. When a person in a call centre answers a call the agent has to answer the call in a particular way, and that way is almost invariably related to some crude metric involving time or ticking boxes. Call centres, be they "in house", outsourced, or offshore are expected to answer calls according to targets. These targets are numeric, and are always things that can be tracked on a spreadsheet. I mean, just for fun, let us ask "how can we measure delight?".*

So that said, what does get measured? Call times, log rates, repeat calls. Technical support does this, customer services do this. Retentions or Cancellations or whatever they are called in any number of firms, be they mobile telephony internet or car insurance do it, but add bonuses and minimum expectations for things like "customers saved" and "expected revenue shortfall incurred by retention reductions". Sales are usually on a commission basis, there having been questions raised about behaviours under systems that require minimum sales, but some organisations still have them. These numbers, every one of them, from length of a call to time spent in administration have hee-haw to do with how happy you or I are as a customer.

Don't get me wrong, doing the job properly and efficiently will usually produce satisfied customers, and barring the vagaries of the box-ticking exercises this might even be sufficiently prompt as to allow the agent to complete the call in a time that adheres to their expected call profile. If the issue is at all difficult then there's a temptation to fob the customer off, it's inevitable, because the consequences of helping the customer properly outweight the benefits as far as the agent is concerned.

"Fie!", you say. "That's completely unacceptable!". That may well be. It's still your fault. Motivated staff cost money. Keeping staff motivated requires recognising them as humans, rather than machines for interpreting dialect and plugging values into computer screens. One of those processes is abandoning scripts for calls, but that brings the attendant risk of people straying from those scripts. Variation breeds poor customer service, raises call times. You can see long call times in Excel, but there's no way to track how happy someone was as a result. Now, don't get me wrong, they are trying; there's a good chance that almost everyone on this forum who's talked to Virgin Media has received one of those emails that asks if we'd recommend Virgin Media to a friend. Though the obvious point here is the scope of the metric; two measures, a range from 1 to 10. That kind of granularity does not good policy make. More to the point, my suspicion is that it's sourced from an American organisation, because the septics are amazingly fond of trying to make numbers out of intangibles, so I'd guess 70% is the "pass" mark rather than 50%. The thing is that all this stuff costs money, and that requires either squeezing already narrow profit margins or charging customers more. Given the choice, most organisations will just eat up the discontent, smooth out the grumbling where it flares with a discount here, an apology there. It's easier, organisationally, to treat everyone equally badly and then soothe the ones who complain until they either stop complaining or leave. "I'd be perfectly willing to pay £5 extra a month for a quality service" is heard from many a person, but when it comes to the wallet, that £60 is pretty loud. It will get louder.

Of course, you don't have to listen to me. I intensely dislike everyone dissimilar to me, and since I'm a beautiful unique snowflake I'm turned against anyone without an icy exterior and a heart made of grit.

* If your answer involved electrodes, PET, seretonin level monitoring or blush response you are a) most of the way there, and b) advised to remember that chicks don't dig Mad Science on the first date; A lesson I have learned the hard way.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

All of which is of absolutely no concern to the Sub whose BB has gone down, who rings support, who gets through to someone who appears to not understand what he is saying and whose English is extremely difficult to interpret, who appears to have little knowledge of Computing and who appears to have little knowledge of the products he is supposed to be supporting.

Just another second rate service supplied by VM.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

second rate... i think it's more like 3rd rate or first rate for the poor service!

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I have to say one thing I have noticed. Call retentions instead of tech support and you seem to get an brit every time - funny that ;)

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

As I posted in another thread, today I have been onto India for the fifth time trying to get access to my web space restored.

Each time I have gone through the same routine as they try to reset the password even though I mention each time that the last contact tried and failed, E-mail password will reset, web space will not, I need second level support to sort it out but this appears to be against their orders.

Leave it for 72 hours – 24 Hours – 36 Hours and call back if the problem has not miraculously healed itself.

Calling TS these days is a total waste of everyone's time, can't remember the last time I got through to a UK call centre but I remember the problem was fixed within a few minutes.

If it hadn't been for the TS agent one day who began “Hello, my name is Rocky�, which had me rolling on the floor, I think I would have lost my rag this past week, I had to tell him that in the UK he would be called Rocky Posonby-Smythe or some other made up poncy doubled barrelled surname.

Ah well, time to make another call, I WILL NOT BE BEATEN! .... even though I know I cannot win. :D

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

my experience with the indian call centres have not been very good.the 3 times ive been put through to them they have not been able to help me technically or with ordering a modem so im affraid from MY experience, in this poll, i can only vote the way my service has been provided which is poor.on the 3 occassions they could not help i managed by luck (and mr moos tips) to get through to british staff who sorted me out in minutes.is the slight language barrier a problem(im a yorkshire lad,the wife cant always understand what i say) or is it poor training,maybe they are not aware of the latest offers as soon as british based staff?,i dont know,all i do know is if i want a problem sorted out quickly and one i have confidence in i will try my damndest to contact a british based contact.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

It's not just VM's call centres, it's all of them.

I've yet to find an off-shore call centre that's anything other than bloody awful.

I've taken to taking my business away from service providers/businesses where I have problems with their off-shore centre and writing to the MD/CEO to tell them why.

I expect they don't care, but it makes me feel better.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I have to say the poll might be useless, but thats only because the other 3.5m virgin customers you mention dont know this site exists. if they did perhaps we would see how bad Virgin are, and after all its human nature to complain when something is wrong, but we dont see the need to put pen to paper to say that we are 'relatively satisfied' or 'dont care'. Yes I know there are other companies to go to but there is not much to choose between them. Better the Devil you know, as they say. Again human nature, we're scared to change incase it just ends up worse, or you end up paying both companies as no one seems to be able to work their computers going by the 'computer errors' that keep getting blamed. People, it seems can never be held responsible. We come to this site so that we know its not just us, not personal, cos thats what it seems like sometimes. It may be 'grumpyville' but we all feel better after venting and if we can find someone who has gone through something similar, it helps. Sometimes, others experiences can actually help sort out our own problems. Unfortunately Customer Service dosnt really seem to be that anymore. One reason why Sales and Retentions get the British staff. Once you are a customer, they suddenly find your not so important.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I am glad you said that because there are 2 ways to looks at this. I was going to ask that one of the cable forum team posts the results to somebody they know at VM just so that they have the feedback as I do believe it is an alarmingly high % of us who do believe the indian call centers are useless.
To be fair I would agree with VM that it is not valid from a stastistical point of view due to the sample population (us members who are prone to moaning :) ).

Nevertheless, the results clearly show that something is wrong. The guys that monitor TV (i think it is the advertising standards agency) kick major ass as soon as somebody complains about tv progs or adverts. I can't remember the specifics but I can remember 2 or 3 occassions last year when the BBC aired a tv prog and Sky did an advert which I think practically everyone was happy with but it was in the newspapers because the ASA were looking into it because 13 people complained (out of 70 million in this country). If 13 people can complain about a tv prog which millions are happy with why cant a few hundred or few thousand unhappy VM customers be heard.

The poll maybe be mis-respresentative of VMs customer base but it still indicates a serious problem in their tech support and those concerns should be heard. I can't think of any area of business or anything else for that matter which would think an 83% disapproval rating in their level of service is acceptable.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Showing that to our contacts is unlikely to make much difference as companies like VM and many other will only take direction from focus groups, and not directly from their customers. It might seem counter-productive but companies have been working that way for years.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Money talks and while it continues to be cheaper to use Off shore call centres and the customer base does not leave in droves or complain, then we will continue to have these call centres unless it becomes a brilliant marketing ploy to bring all call centres home to be UK based.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

funny you should say that because I have noticed an increasingly large amount of adverts on TV now advertising UK based call centers to the point that I don't actually know what is being advertised (Coca Cola or car insurance?) and what is good about that brand/company apart from the fact that they have UK call centers. And just to prove a point, on Sky it is insurance adverts/sue/claim adverts galore to the point that it just becomes a blur but the one that has stood out to me which I noticed this morning was LVE car insurance and that was because they were primarily advertising UK call centers and that is it, and I must admit that as a selling feature (which it even shouldn't be considered as one) it is something which appeals to me now because of the poor experience I have had with indian call centers (albeit from a a different business sector). I don't know what proportion of businessed or types of businesses use foreign call centers but I am fortunate in that all the people i need to ring for my mobile phone (car phone warehouse) and car insurance (priviledge) are all UK. As stupid as it sounds, if i was looking for another provider for something and I found out they didn't use UK call centers, I wouldn't go with them out of principal. The french wouldn't like using UK call centers so why should UK peops tolerate non-UK call centers?

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

The french equivalent would probably be algeria or morroco and I wonder how they would react to that.

If it becomes a commercial reason then they will return to the UK but while they can get away with it then they will continue to give us poor service.

But bringing the call centres back may not make the problem go away, as to cut costs they may just bring in minimum wage staff with the same scripts and not staff with an interest in computers that are also trained as they cost more, which is the present situation in Virgin UK call centres for Tech Support.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

I know someone who went for a job at pipex I believe it was, about 12 months ago. She was going for a job doing phone support and as part of the interview was given various scenarios where things may have gone wrong and how she might go about giving advice to customers. No crib sheets, no scripts, just tested on her knowledge of P.C's and general network setup. It's a shame VM don't follow that same philosophy.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

We do that in the UK and then have full training and support for the first few weeks on the phones.

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

it is a shame they dont apply the same standards across all VM then

Re: *Poll added* - VM's Indian callcentre
 

Looks like things are about to get worse....

http://www.contact-centres.com/0309.virgin.htm