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-   -   Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33645165)

Hugh 06-02-2009 16:54
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34728805)
It's possible they were talking about church and prayer as she then asked "so would you like me to pray for you?" (my conjecture obviously).

On that basis I'm not sure how a patient would ask a nurse if they'd pray for them if they didn't know of the nurse's faith.
I believe the guidance is for the future, not the previous occurrence.

Saaf_laandon_mo 06-02-2009 16:57
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34728795)
I am pleased she is back on the nurse bank for casual work, but I think this isn't going to go away, myself.

BBC "On Friday, Mrs Petrie told BBC News: "It's part of me. I can't divorce my faith from being a nurse."

NHS North Somerset "we are keenly aware of the importance of an individual’s spiritual belief, and we recognise that Caroline felt that she was acting in the best interests of her patients. For some people of faith, prayer is seen as an integral part of health care and the healing process. That is why NHS services in North Somerset offer spiritual support such as chaplaincy and prayer rooms, for example, available for use by people of all faiths.

It is acceptable to offer spiritual support as part of care when the patient asks for it.

But for nurses, whose principal role is giving nursing care, the initiative lies with the patient and not with the nurse. Nurses like Caroline do not have to set aside their faith, but personal beliefs and practices should be secondary to the needs and beliefs of the patient and the requirements of professional practice."

That reads to me, and I may be mistaken, that they are stating that prayers should not be offered.
So if the rules state that prayers should not be offered then it's only correct that she should be disciplined. How she's disciplined is another argument. Should she lose her job over it, no - unless she is a constant rule breaker and has repeatedly been asked not to do something.

It's no different to a an employee taking on a job, knowing what the dress code is, and expecting not to be disciplined for not adhering to it.

Also she asked a patient if the patient wanted her to pray for her. I can see how some people might find that a bit patronising and off putting.

Russ 06-02-2009 17:01
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34728806)
I believe the guidance is for the future, not the previous occurrence.
That's what I was referring to in the second bit of my post ;)

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34728812)
Also she asked a patient if the patient wanted her to pray for her. I can see how some people might find that a bit patronising and off putting.
Well yeah if it was out of the blue but I get the impression that's not the case.

Saaf_laandon_mo 06-02-2009 17:11
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34728814)
That's what I was referring to in the second bit of my post ;)

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------



Well yeah if it was out of the blue but I get the impression that's not the case.
In the BBC link you posted it says she asked the patient if she would like her to prayer for her. That's pretty much out of the blue. The fact that the patient actually made a complaint implies it wasn't a gradual suggestion.

Russ 06-02-2009 17:15
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34728820)
In the BBC link you posted it says she asked the patient if she would like her to prayer for her. That's pretty much out of the blue. The fact that the patient actually made a complaint implies it wasn't a gradual suggestion.
:erm:

Saaf_laandon_mo 06-02-2009 17:20
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34728569)
From that link.....

Quote:

Community nurse Caroline Petrie, 45, from Weston-super-Mare asked an elderly woman patient during a home visit if she wanted her to say a prayer for her. The patient complained to the health trust about Mrs Petrie's actions.

Russ 06-02-2009 17:24
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
They could have been talking about church beforehand and rounded it off with that question...yes?

And the lady complained because she thought others might be offended by it. Funnily enough during her career only one other person complained - and not the person she was talking to.

Saaf_laandon_mo 06-02-2009 17:55
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34728831)
They could have been talking about church beforehand and rounded it off with that question...yes?

And the lady complained because she thought others might be offended by it. Funnily enough during her career only one other person complained - and not the person she was talking to.

Is there another link or source you are using as reference for your comments. From the BBC link all I get is :

Quote:


Ms Petrie was suspended, without pay, on 17 December after asking the elderly female patient if she would like a prayer said for her.
The patient, believed to be in her 70s, refused and Mrs Petrie insisted that she left the matter alone. The sick woman contacted the trust about the incident and Mrs Petrie was challenged by her superiors.
What gets me is that if Mrs Petrie is insisting the sick woman leaves the matter alone then she might be aware of the trouble she might get in if its reported to her employers.

I cannot see how you are reaching your conclusions/ basing your views on the BBC article alone. Is there another giving the nurses version of events that you could link to? Saying "They could have been talking about church beforehand and rounded it off with that question..." is as useful as me saying "She could have been imposing her religious views on the patient"

Russ 06-02-2009 18:01
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
From the link in the first post:

Quote:
Mrs Petrie says she was told the patient had said she was not offended by the prayer offer but the woman argued that someone else might have been.

RizzyKing 06-02-2009 19:08
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Well when the source is not someone with a vested intersdt in this i might accept it but if Mrs Petrie knew doing this was going to cause trouble then taking her purely on her recollection of events is not sufficient. Also there is a difference between what the bbc says and what the nurse says so obviously this isn't straight forward and could all have been avoided if she had done as she was told. You keep mentioning the nurse and the old lady talking about religion\belief prior to the offer of a prayer is that something you have read Russ or something your speculating on because if it's speculation then it isn't an argument for the point many of us have made and looks more like you creating a favourable instance for the allowing of this woman to offer a prayer that does not seem to have been requested or wanted.

Russ 06-02-2009 19:12
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
So we're not allowed to put forward an opinion unless backed up with a witness account?

I love how the rules change for us "religous nuts"....

Hugh 06-02-2009 19:25
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34728907)
So we're not allowed to put forward an opinion unless backed up with a witness account?

I love how the rules change for us "religous nuts"....
????:confused:

Russ 06-02-2009 19:33
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
I was referring to this...

Quote:
You keep mentioning the nurse and the old lady talking about religion\belief prior to the offer of a prayer is that something you have read Russ or something your speculating on because if it's speculation then it isn't an argument for the point many of us have made and looks more like you creating a favourable instance for the allowing of this woman to offer a prayer that does not seem to have been requested or wanted.
None of us know for certain what happened but for some reason my conjecture seems to be in question.

Hugh 06-02-2009 19:36
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
I understood that part, but why the "religious nuts" comment?

LondonRoad 06-02-2009 19:37
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34728923)
I was referring to this...



None of us know for certain what happened but for some reason my conjecture seems to be in question.
What has happened is clearly not the heinous crime that is being inferred. Your conjecture is as valid as any other and probably has more validity given that she has been welcomed back into the fold. ;)

RizzyKing 06-02-2009 19:39
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Sorry Russ i am having a problem taking you seriously on this as i think your getting this all wrong. What i said was much of your justification on this has been that the nurse and the patient may have been talking about faith or religion and no where that i have seen has this been backed up by reliable sources. As for taking the nurses word for what exactly happened no i don't as i am sure she knew having been warned in the past not to do this that admitting it wasn't going to help her cause.

We have conflicting reports on what actually happened enough for there to be the opinion that all is not as it seems but you seem to be taking all this as some atheist attack on religion which is not the case whatsoever my problem with this incident has never been the religion aspect it is a worker thinking she can choose what rules of her job apply to her and ignoring those she doesn't feel do apply to her which i think is wrong and if it were to be allowed by all employers we would be in a complete mess in short order.

Russ 06-02-2009 19:47
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34728928)
I understood that part, but why the "religious nuts" comment?
It's aimed at the person (not the one I subsequently posted after) who's been giving me abuse over this on my blog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
Sorry Russ i am having a problem taking you seriously on this as i think your getting this all wrong. What i said was much of your justification on this has been that the nurse and the patient may have been talking about faith or religion and no where that i have seen has this been backed up by reliable sources.
None of us know what happened, I freely admit my view is bassed on assumption however I reached my opinion on what happened exactly the same way as you or anyone else did. I make no apology for giving the nurse the benefit of the doubt.

tweetypie/8 06-02-2009 22:53
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34725434)
Some of you probably know that I consider religions to be little more than fairy tales but this is ridiculous:link



Poor woman......:(
i hope someone will take the time to offer a prayer up for me when the time comes,and if i get there i will do likewise for them.

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaiNasty (Post 34725435)
'equality and diversity'

my heart sinks when I hear this twaddle these days. Leave your brains at the door when you enter this world.

I wonder if the outcome would have been the same if she had been non-Christian?
why not ?

frogstamper 06-02-2009 23:39
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34728760)
There are been some tongue in cheek comments about what if she had been a satanist? or practising voodoo? But on a serious note, what if she had been a non Christian nurse. And she started praying over patients in say Arabic, or Hindi, or Hebrew. Would the reaction and outcome be the same?
Believe this if you can Saaf, in the daily hate this week that well known bigot Littlejohn was of course taking every opportunity to do a bit of BBC bashing on this subject when he made this claim.
"I wouldn't mind who prayed for me, whatever their faith if I wasn't well in hospital"...can you imagine his reaction if a Muslim holy-man, koran in hand was praying by his bedside?
In his next column he'd be banging on about how Muslims were now infiltrating our hospitals and that its all the fault of Guardian readers.
I remember Micheal Portillo being interviewed recently by Andrew Neil in which he made the claim that the British right-wing press was "evil", how right he was when a so called middle of the road newspaper like the Mail employs people like Littlejohn.

rogerdraig 07-02-2009 12:55
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
ah good to see the trust backed off after reading up on the law

lol and in reply to some one who said the last thing they want to hear is some one praying for them in hospital it worse when you hear "so what time do you think this bed will be free" from one ;)

TheNorm 08-02-2009 21:04
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34728928)
...but why the "religious nuts" comment?
Do angels have wing nuts?

superbiatch 09-02-2009 14:16
Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 
It seems she is free to return to work now http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...e-religion-nhs


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