Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Some people still don't get it - Brown simply says what he thinks as many potential Labour voters as possible want to hear. He's proved what he's about having been at the helm or thereabouts since 1997 and led us into (in Darling's words) the worst crisis for 60 years. How many times have Brown and his crew told us all that executives who fail should pay with their jobs instead of staying in post and being effectively rewarded for their failure. How odd then that this policy doesn't apply to those whose indeptitude got us into this mess!

He (and Bliar before him) will say and do anything to cling onto power - how many times are people going to fall for this con trick? Whether it's old news repackaged as new, existing funding reannounced, figures manipulated/reinterpreted, madcap schemes that'll fail but cost £billions, promises that will never materialise or just plain old spin and lies, it all amounts to the same thing - a government as bankrupt of morals, ability and ideas as any failed bank is of cash.

Vote for Brown and his cohorts and get more of the same!

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

They said by buying in bulk and not getting brand name drugs, which alarms me because it implys they are buying brand name drugs at the moment :rolleyes: Also according to the Beeb, 12% do pay, so I guess it will cover them (or those who have serious conditions). 12% seems small though...I thought it was higher.

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

Well, there is time till the next elections. He can say it, and if he delivers it Labour voters will be happy otherwise they will not. It's not an election year, so we can wait to see if he actually does it..

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Yep.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news...804171.0.0.php

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Unfortunately the problem with buying votes is that once you've bought them and gotten back into power (bribing pensioners with an increase in fuel benefits, then taxing them to claim it back) you then don't have to do anything until the next election when you start bribing people again.

All parties in power do it, just look at how the council tax subsidies are dished out.
In a "current government" area and you'll get more subsidies and therefore lower council tax than an area under opposition control. Makes the opposition look bad to have to either cut services or increase council tax (capping to stop them doing that also helps make them look bad as it means they're more likely to have to cut services).
Why do you think Scotland got the poll tax first? If it upset people it didn't matter, they weren't tory voters and never would be.

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Formula

These figures suggest otherwise but I suspect we'll still be arguing about who owns what oil/gas when it's all gone and GB's left with coal.

and here's more figures from the Treasury for anyone who's interested:

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...809_chap10.pdf

BTW is there a reason why The Herald's figures compare spending in Scotland with that in London as opposed to the whole of England? London, being the capital, is hardly representative of the whole of England is it.

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Cool, But what is the spending on. I mean London has a number of factors that may unfairly effect the stats..

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

You mean like being a huge land area and low population density, supplying most of the oil and things like that? ;)

Without taking this completely off topic and into a whole 'Scotland-has-it-so-much-easier-we'd-be-better-off-without-them' argument the post from the Herald is only a small selection of what was a multi-page article a few months back. Suffice to say it went into as much detail as it could about how the figures were broken down and while some parts of England get shafted money wise other areas do quite nicely.

Of course thats not what certain people in English based newspapers (some of which have Scottish editions conveniently missing articles published in England) and some broadcasters want to hear as it takes away their most convenient whipping boy.

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

To be fair, I really don't want to be without Scotland, my issue with Scotland (mostly the SNP) is that they don't seem to want to be part of the UK anymore. Which is sad :(

Anyway, Yeah, I not sure on what the figures are and mean. I would say London has a lot of money spent of things like security as well as also having some very poor sectors living in and around London.

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Well said :clap:

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

And IMO have only got into power (sort-of) up here due to Labour making a mess of things, I don't believe the majority of Scots want away from the rest of the UK, well aside from during England football matches when the commentators 1966 time-machine is in full working order ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Is it time for a friendly Mod to update the 'updated' title of this thread since it's no longer about Glasgow East. Cheers.

Update:

Blimey you Mods are hot tonight ! ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

:D

By the way is most of our army English or Scottish, Because if it's English, we'll just invade you again.(You even have Oil!!!) :p:

Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 

Well according to you at least we only go on about the 1966 World Cup - you guys have to hark back to the days of Braveheart :D

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Ruth Kelly resigns from the Cabinet:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7632778.stm

Apparently it's nothing whatsoever to do with Brown though.....

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

'To spend more time with the family'

This lot sounds more and more like the 1990'd Conservatives every day.

I wonder if many more will decide its time to distance themselves?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Possibly the prospect of redundancy looming around the has dawned on her.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

when the ship starts to sink its always the biggest rats that make it overboard first.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Also maybe she does have a problem with brownshirt and wouldn't say anything as a cabinet minister but as an ordinary mp you never know.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

There is some good news then, I cannot stand the woman.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Strange that with a personal problem which has been going on all the time she has been in the Cabinet, she chooses the day of Gordon Brown's speech to resign.

If that is not a sign that the writing is on the wall I don't know what is.

Unfortunately,our problem is that there are too many self-interested MPs in Parliament of whom MIss Kelly is one.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I can't think of many of Brown's cabinet that I can stand :(

---------- Post added at 08:40 ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 ----------

Perhaps she thought it was a good day to bury bad news :D

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Nice to hear, I thought it was only me. :)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yeah I never liked that bloke either :erm:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

You noticed that too then? :D

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Well I reckon Brown must be seriously worried to risk bringing back Mandelson into the Cabinet and there are now even rumours that Blunkett is on his way back.....

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

According to Newsnight it was a signal to the rest of the party that they are united and have decided they will fight for a 4th term instead of fracturing

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

:D Yeah right, they're "joined at the hip....." :)

I reckon it's got a tad more to do with trying to secure Murdoch's media empire's backing...

http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-polit...ch-party-press

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

the blind leading the blind --don't miss the next installment of - oooh i've screwed it all up :rolleyes:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

On the contrary, who better to deal with the aftermath of dodgy mortgages?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Brown on the ropes? Poppycock.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

My local is running a sweepstake on what Mandelson will get sacked for next. Some offerings have been 'sex scandal', 'financial irregularities', 'accepting illegal donations', 'obtaining passport for foreign housemaid' etc

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yes, how long's it going to be before Mandelson starts auditioning for 'I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here' I wonder.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Could it be that the economic storm clouds have a silver lining for Gordon? How else could he throw so much money around to 'save the nation' without being accused of being irresponsible or electioneering and buying votes?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

He has done well politically out of all this, seen as strong and dealt with a lot of the problems quickly. Even the papers were talking about the world following his led in the last few days

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Given he should have seen this coming a while ago i would imagine he would have a few ideas in place ready to kick in. It staggers me that we are now praising him for handling a situation he did a lot to create. Seems to me it's a bit like complementing the digging technique while someone digs you into a damn big hole Silver lining for us of course is that whatever kudos he gets for this phase will be lost when sadly people start losing their jobs.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

A lot of other countries apparently did not do anything either though, I don't see Gordon Brown getting the blame from the public when they see the same thing happening elsewhere. It's seem to have been a fault with the entire system rather than any one thing Brown did (or in this case, not do)

His response though is being praised all over the place, America and Europe both copied the same plan and American papers are praising the British government for taking the lead on it.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Excuse me! I know you don't like him and he's not that popular with me but he's not single handedly responsible for the global meltdown in economics..It took a lot of very greedy short sighted people around the world to achieve the present situation.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

No he is not the only one to blame but he is the only to blame for the impact this is yet to have on the british public. His lack of forward planning is going to seriously come back and bite us sorry people but if you think this is as bad as it is going to get your in for a shock. I really am at a loss to explain how suddenly he is the knight in shining armour for doing what labour have always done in a crisis ie throw money at it. That isn't planning for a labour politician it is instinctural.

Come on people am i the only one feeling a little queasy at how much gordon seems to be revelling in all this at the minute and before we hail him can we actually see if this works not just in the short term but as always with gordon and his great ideas in the long term as well. Arn't people fickle one minute he is the villain now all of a sudden he is a hero and while not single handedly responsible for this blaming the banks totally is not fair either or don't we have regulators in this country that should have sorted this out before it got to this stage.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

1000 job losses a day upto now, it's not been this bad since 1992.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Exactly and that is going to get worse also why i think gordon wants us all concentrating on the financial side as a lot of other very bads news is getting buried by it at the minute. Really am sick and tired of the smoke and mirrors game we are always playing with this government.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Sounds like it's just another "Problem, reaction, solution." for the New World Order.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

But this is a approach which is both (appearing) to be working and was taken up but a lot of other governments. It's also not necessary a complete waste, a lot of money did not need to be paid as the confidence and shares in the banks increased and if/when the banks recover then the government can sell their shares and maybe make a profit.

I don't why the government is necessary to blame for not imposing tighter regulation. The whole ethos since the Thatcher government seemed to have been that free markets work and should be left to their own devices, any problems would be dealt with by the market correcting itself. Turns out it didn't happen. However, I am not sure any government would have imposed tighter regulation and a lot of other countries did not. Would imposing tighter regulation not put our banks at a disadvantage against others?

Not that the government is completely innocent, but I don't think they should take the bulk of the blame by any means. I also think they deserve credit for what appears to have been great leadership in trying to solve the crisis. Brown has looked like a leader for the first time in over a year. Maybe since he got the job. His plan is the one America copied after their ideas didn't work, and Europe followed after they were stumbling for a plan.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

If no one has a clue everyone will follow the person that seems too doesn't mean it's good just means everyone else was out of ideas. Everything gordon brown has done will have to paid for at a later date and i worry this is yet another one of those whose true cost won't be seen till long after he has gone.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Just been listening to Harman during PMQ's. She exemplifies what I hate most about these people - their refusal to accept responsibility for their many mistakes and their shameless readiness to take the credit when the problems they either created or allowed to happen finally get sorted (well hopefully anyway). The fact that taxpayers will be paying heavily for their ineptitiude for decades isn't something they want to dwell on of course..

When it comes to fuel prices Brown is again trying to gain popularity by asking the supermarkets to lower their prices. All very well but it's what he takes in tax which is the biggest component of what we pay at the pump and he's shown little interest in reducing that since 1997.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

The fact the markets record their highest gains the day after was a sign it was a good move isn't it? They have done ok the last 3 days and it seems to have stabilised the markets?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Market moves can be prompted by a lot of things and are seldom easy to explain. It would be very simplistic to credit a sudden upturn to anything G. Brown has done. Doubtless it had an effect, but then you also have to factor in all sorts of other things, such as the cold, hard realisation that undervaluing companies is as unsustainable in the long term as is overvaluing them. When the share price of a company dents its market capitalisation so hard that the company is manifestly undervalued, people will start to buy those shares again.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Everyone watching saw that the Tory Party had no answer to the problem, this will hurt them in elections for years to come. :monkey:
Go Gordon, ride the bear.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Hallucinogenic drugs are bad for you, you know.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

:rofl:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Further to my earlier comments, here's the current FTSE market data:

3962.75 -116.84 -2.86%

Yep, I'd say El Gordo really put a stop to that global economic gloom.

Not.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Agree - there's far more to this than just the banking crisis. The Nikkei fell 11.4% last night!

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yup, I'm an idiot. :dunce:

Teach me to open my mouth too early

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

lol - I have a feeling we'll all be 'proved' right and wrong more than a few times over coming weeks..... ;) FTSE's been up and down like a yoyo today - currently (14.00) down 33 having dropped 200 first thing.

Whatever else happens though, Hague was quite right yesterday when he called Brown's claim to have ended the cycle of boom and bust "one of the most irresponsible claims ever made by a British prime minister".

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

If the tories have an answer or a policy towards whats going on then if i was them i would keep quiet as well or announce it and watch as gordon takes it rewords it a little and then announces it as a labour initiative. Tories can't win if they stay quiet they are accused of having no policies and if they do announce them they get poached by labour a purposeful position i think labour has created. Gordon brown may be the answer to something but this isn't it and by the time we find what he is an answer for i doubt we will care anymore.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Insomnia? :D

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Just to add to the above, the Dow Jones index finished at around 9000 today having dropped as low as 8200 at one point!!

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Precisely!

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

It's one thing to pontificate on what you would have done, could do, and actually doing it. It's a world-wide problem, with the smartest economists disagreeing on what to do. I don't think anyone has a clear answer.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

All the more an indictment of those supposedly in charge who over the last few years either couldn't or didn't want to see this whole mess coming.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Damien, I remember when we the voters/members were being sold the idea of converting building societies to banks (this was about 20 years ago) - one of the big justifications was "they'll be able to raise money on the money markets in order to lend for mortgages etc which is something they are restricted as a building society"....

I assumed this meant that if they were offering a 3 year fixed rate mortgage then they'd raise say 100million on the money markets as a 3 year loan at a fixed rate and then lend that money to the bank customer at a slightly higher rate - what I didn't realise was that they'd offer the bank customer a fixed rate for 2, 3, 5 years but from money markets which often loaned money for 3 months at a time and during the fixed rate term the money markets money would be at a rate that went up and down.

If I have my facts wrong someone please correct me but the above is how I understand things played out.

So a lot of mortgages out there which run for years and years are depended not on money put in savings accounts at your bradford and bingley's of this world but short term money lend via the 'money markets'.

Money markets are a lot more fussy than your average saver who just wants to stuff his money in an account and forget about it.... when 'the markets' discovered that some prats in america were offering mortgages to people who had no chance of paying it back that's when things started to collapse.

The 'markets' about a year ago got cold feet and didn't want to offer cash to banks who'd clearly lent money irresponsibly.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

... and therefore the wheels have well and truly come off the mortgages and loans market in the UK because the process that underpins many of them has now completely stalled.

Yep, I'd say that was a pretty good assessment :tu:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...s-byelections1

See? All Brown needed to do was throw the economy down the toilet and suddenly he starts winning elections. It's not the economy, stupid.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I reckon Brown must be rubbing his hands with glee. Having driven UK PLC head on into an unprecedented financial disaster, the very problems he's done so much to create now offer the opportunity for him to do what he does best - throw money at issues. It even allows him to backtrack on some of the hugely doddgy/unpopular tax related decisions he's made and stood by, dressing it all up as prudent measures in difficult times. I wouldn't be surprised if the retrospective VED changes are ditched sooner rather than later.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I am really starting to worry that people are forgetting what brownshirt has done to drop us so far in the mire and in typical goldfish mode are now applauding the man for the way he is handling it. If this continues we face the very real prospect of this man being reelected and i simply do not want to think about that.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Don't worry I won't let anyone around here forget.. ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

If this crisis turns out to be Brown's 'Belgrano', I'll be sick as a parrot ...

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I quite like the idea of Brown being on a sinking ship just as long as the only crew are his pathetic cohorts.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

The thing about the Belgrano was, Thatcher was the one giving the orders to sink it, rather than being on board it. It, and the Falklands campaign in general, was sufficient as a popularity boost to mitigate against the otherwise shoddy state GB plc was in at the time.

Whether the state of the country today and in 1982/3 is comparable, and whether the actions and culpability of the Government then and now are comparable, are of course different matters entirely.

I'm just pointing out that a short-term perception of strong leadership can go a very long way to making the electorate forget about other issues.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

frankly voters must be thick as pig poo if they believe G Brown is saving the day.


He isn't even a properly elected leader.


He built up a huge amount of national debt and invented the 'golden rule' that borrowing is for investment only.

but is now saying there is a new rule which says you can borrow in order to stimulate the economy.


I say there is a better rule - in the good years you pay off debt and build up reserves so when the bad years come you are able to stimulate the economy with tax cuts and investment. The good years and bad years make up what we'll call 'the economic cycle' but not "boom and bust" cos we have abolished that.

oh hang on that sounds like the 'golden rule'? Well, ok we'd do that golden rule but sadly we have bucket loads of borrowing so dont have any room to move so we'll make the economic cycle last for another 20 years and borrow loads and what the hell in order to bail out the motor industry we'll buy every taxpayer a car.

The most sensible course of action now would be for G. Brown to resign so someone else with less experience can smoothy steer the UK Titanic properly into the iceberg.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yes I know the point you were making and the Falklands conflict in general certainly did help Thatcher's standing. I was just putting another (rather more hopeful) slant on the analogy. I like to dream sometimes you know...... ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

i think people in this country have got memories like goldfish (very short)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Trouble is, politicians see a pot of gold and can't keep their hands off it. Especially when it comes to election time.

Isn't it better to spend, spend, spend and let the opposition worry about the debt when they come into power?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Gordon Brown has to go, simple as that.
He wasn't even elected yet how many important decisions has he made?
Get that <deleted> out of here.
No doubt the next <deleted> who comes in will be just as bad, so really all this swapping about is pointless.

<mod edit: You may not agree with politicians, or the person, but do not resort to offensive and insulting posts>

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

problem with that is labour do the spending and the conservitives do the saving then they get the blame as they have to put up taxes to get some reserves back.:)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yeah and thats exactly what labour bank on to get back in at some point in the future. You will notice labour always make spending the money sound as though it's the only way to do us the population any good and that the tory way harms us all massively. It's just another stupid ploy that we in this country need to show them were not buying anymore.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I wonder if this is an example of what I suggested above:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7726435.stm

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I always find it amazing that governments always try to borrow their way out of a crisis.

Imagine the situation.You wake up one morning to find that you've lost your job, have £50,000 worth of debts and the country's in recession.For some people, sadly, this may be true.

Anyone in their right mind would surely be looking at ways to cut their unnecessary expenditure and maximise their income.

They would prioritise their debts and come up with a plan to pay off the debts gradually ensuring that high prority debts e.g. mortgage etc are paid first. In some cases you may negotiate a deal with your creditors.

Hopefully over a period of time you would get to a situation where you could live easily within your means.

The last thing you would do would be to incur more debt by borrowing.

Isn't this one of the reasons the country is in the mess it's in?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Brown's well and truly backtracking now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7728900.stm

Having put taxes up to record levels and got himself into a real mess by taking away the 10p band, he now reckons what's really needed is tax cuts.

Of course it's all down to combatting the recession which he had nothing at all to do with and nothing whatsoever to do with trying to salvage his job. :mad:

More cynical populist U turns to follow methinks.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

that example isn't quite the same as an individual e.g. if this one person borrowed £10,000 and went out and bought a mini in order to help save the motor industry it would make sod all difference.

but if we ALL borrowed £10,000 each and bought a new car or put a deposit on a house or bought a speed boat - whatever - we'd stimulate the economy - the problem is it'd be a false boom. a bit like those people who say in order to avoid a hang over - keep drinking! it's true but eventually you have to face the music and sober up/pay off the debts.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Brownshirt is on to a winner with this recession even if he is the only winner as people are already forgetting the mess he has made of the job since having it and are now looking to the devil they know to help them. He will make populist gestures and reassuring announcements because so far that has worked for him and people are supporting him. Until someone pegs this government down and highlights beyond debate how they are responsible for much of the mess in the UK on national media he will continue to personally recover.

Sadly the only media that could do this the bbc is not interested in highlighting this governments failures and is more interested in rubbishing the torys any chance it gets hence why i now feel bbc stands for biased broadcasting corporation. If the people in this country reelect brownshirt and the labour party at the next election then we truly deserve everything we get and we are going to get a hell of a lot of trouble in all areas.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Come on, Just because the BBC have not run continued stories about how Labour are sorely responsible for the entire world wide credit crunch does not mean they are biased.

The thing is that it is not 'beyond debate' that they are responsible for the mess we are in and just because some sections of the media do not agree with your assessment is not evidence of bias on their part, only on your part.

There are enough media sources around that agree with your views so go to them if you simply wish the media to agree with you.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Brown & Co. are not responsible for the global recession but, having been in power since 1997, they're almost entirely responsible for the state this country is in and the effect global issues are having on the UK. The warning signs were there for all to see and they ignored them. This crisis was just an accident waiting to happen and they drove us straight into it!

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

The British are at their best when their backs are against the wall, just wait and see..... ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

It's not the British we're worried about, it's the British Government.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Damien it is not that one issue where the bbc has shown bias take the recent george osbourne saga the guy has not been proven to have done a thing wrong he might have spoken out of turn but if you watched the bbc you could be forgiven for thinking he had broke every rule going. What made that all the more distasteful was that the bigger story was with peter mandelson and his dealings with the same man and that was covered and dumped very quickly by the bbc.

They have for years now been politically biased in their reporting and i am afraid i am far from the only one that has noticed it. I don't seek anyone or anything to agree with me and certainly don't criticise anyone or anything for having a different opinion ffom me. As to the point of brown and his part in our troubles no of course i don't blame him personally for the global economic crisis but i do personally blame him for the position the UK is in to deal with global problems which is simply put were in a far worse position then most comparable country's and economy's.

What i completely dislike is the way he is taking credit for everything but his part in our current troubles where he constantly blames global conditions. He can't have it both ways he can't blame global conditions for the crisis and then single handedly take the kudos for handling them. At the end of the day after ten years as chancellor he should damn well be handling it but then if he was as good as we are constantly told we wouldn't be so deep in it as we are.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Actually I DO blame him for his part in the making of the global crisis AND the making of our recession.

Had our banks and building societies been better regulated in respect to being not allowed to borrow such a massive percentage of their mortgage funding from the money markets then northern rock, bradford and bingley, RBS, HBOS etc wouldn't have ended up insolvent.

It is G. Brown who was in charge when the banks especially HBOS and Northern Rock were falling over themselves to lend as much dosh as possible - not from their depositors but money they were borrowing on the money markets - a major gamble which didn't pay off.

On top of that G.Brown borrowed loads of cash himself in order to spend spend spend while building up a national debt which now leaves us with no backup, no reserves. And the not so clever man is now saying it is correct to borrow in order to stimulate the economy in this exceptional situation. Wrong - it is correct to prepared for a downturn - but as he'd abolished boom and bust there would never be a downturn. It would never rain and we'd have summer 12 months of the year.

If the banks weren't in this stupid situation of not having a proper level of deposits to meet their needs then we'd not be in anything like the kind of recession. in fact we'd probably not even have a recession.

AND if people had been properly encouraged to save instead of creating a consumer economy we'd also be in a much better position.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

What's your opinion on id cards? For or against it? After all, if you expect the government to baby sit everyone concerning their finances, surely you won't mind them babysitting us regarding id cards. I must have missed the news that said Gordon Brown held a 12 gauge to peoples' heads, and said "you will borrow huge sums of money, whether you like it or not".

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I see the point your making pedantic but the fact is this goverment is responsible for a lot of the trouble that is happening in the UK now and the rest that is going to hit us as time goes on. I will answer your id card question directly i was all for id cards until this government again failed and showed it is incapable of securely holding personal data and until that situation is both resolved and seen to be resolved with no further data losses then i will continue not to support them.

As for nannying the people thats all this government has done with it's attitude of ban and the impact they have had on the people of the UK so why not do it in relation to finance as well. Fact is the current situation says a lot about gordon brown and none of it is good despite how he and his party might be trying to spin it.

According to gordon boom and bust was gone never again would we have to worry because he had taken care of that. Now at the very least it shows a complete naiveity to make such a statement and at worst you do have to wonder how he could make such a stupid and ridiculous statement. But is gordon taking any responsibility no no no it's nothing to do with boom and bust this is new and now gordon is the man to steer us through these tough times yeah right and bruce esmay was the right person to make speed decisions on the titantic.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

they have discouraged saving by taxing the interest. they could have reduced the savings tax and/or increased the ISA allowances. ID cards is a waste of money.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

We can blame the government for this farce because it is they who make the laws as to what must be regulated. In many cases they create & appoint the regulatory bodies.Unfortunately, whenever things go wrong, they repeat the "lessons will be learned" mantra only to prove by the next disaster that they plainly haven't been.

This financial crisis was totally avoidable. We should have realised this with a government that wants to appear in control when in reality they are not.

Most of the time they are working to repair damage that they themselves have created,the abolition of the 10p rate & subsequent refund to taxpayers being an example. Millions of pounds have been wasted at a time when we can least afford it. Boom & bust hasn't returned, it never left as it is New Labour policy.

As for ID cards, they are a joke given all the private personal information lost into the public domain by government departments, noticeably the MOD which has lost 100's of laptops containing data.

As the chief architect of government policy Gordon Brown must accept the blame both as PM and as former Chancellor Of The Exchequer.

Brown is not on the ropes, he is on his way through them as the next election will no doubt demonstrate.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

So when an idea doesnt work thats the new way of hiding it simply suggesting it needs to be accompanied by something else.

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

The bbc are pro government bias something that some of us will argue for all time. The BBC have an official policy of been biased in the peoples interest, this is what I got told when I complained about some BBC stories that werent based on facts. Quite who decides whats in the public interest I dont know.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Anybody who is serious about being the future leader of the Labour party is going to wait until after the next general election. After they have lost the election they'll sack Brown and the next leader will be able to claim they are leading the party out of the ashes.

Doesnt help us now.

This plan banks on the Tories winning the election with Dave at the helm.

BTW I see Gordon Brown as a person who could get himself into trouble in an empty room.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I think labour have fallen too far now for anyone to want the job they will be happy to leave this to GB now and let him take the complete blame. I can easily see more knives in the back between now and then though and for the first time in a long time i think there is every chance we will have the tories in power with the lib dems as the main opposition.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

knives, forks. spoons and any other kitchen utensil that may cause harm :D

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yep keep him in charge of Labour for as long as possible. It will make any other party look so much better at the next election.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

:D

Are the rats going to desert Brown's Titanic?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8030285.stm

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Hmmm do rats usually have two homes? In comparison with us mere mortals I assume that different standards of conduct should apply to rats.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

lol :d

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Ah but you see these are New Labour rats - they're different - for them all things are possible. They purport to empathise with and speak for the majority and despise the rich/privileged few, when in fact many of them behave like the greediest of fat cats and would just love to join their ranks.

It's even alleged that, despite regularly banging on about the country's lack of homes, some New Labour rats not only have more than one home, they claim expenses for homes they don't appear to live in.... Can't be true can it?.....