Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

say if you break the limit at 20:50 right your 5 hours of STM starts then....so you gotta wait till 01:50 till your uncapped. (5 hours)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Last I heard there is no STM after 9:00pm. it gets turned off completely.
So in your example he should get STMd for 10 minutes.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Unfortunately you heard incorrectly.
Alex Brown has previously stated that he's asked Cisco to include the facility to vary the time that the STM restrictions finish into their firmware but that he's been given no indication when that might happen.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

My point is, 4-9pm is supposed to be peak hours traffic flow, why am I being punished whilst traffic isn't deemed to be so high?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

So to make it clear they should say that STM is operational during the hours of 10am to 1am.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

If you hit the limit at, for example, 7PM, the traffic management will continue to affect you for 5 hours, stopping at 12PM.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

So to make it clear they should say that STM is operational during the hours of 10am to 1am.
People could be under the impression that the cut off times is when you get full speed back, but you don't as the hours drift into the next time period.

Made it on to The Register already.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05..._restrictions/

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I see alex is doing his "no i didnt say that, dodge, run and then not reply anymore" thing again :)

As i'm sure you'll notice by replies on the ngs, he has been caught out by the fact he said the new trials were not going to be rolled out, then they sneakily roll it out, where have i seen that happen before ;)

Someone asked about overnight STM, as per usual, alex went silent with one word replies...

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Just saw the letter they are meant to be sending out...makes no difference to me as I am traffic managed no matter what time of the day, and according to everyone I have spoken to at Virgin they have stated I can only download 120meg before I am capped. All I sodding do on my 20meg connection (have the VIP package so have this speed) is surf the web, e-mail, play my xbox and download demos and updates for games. I have been told this makes me an excessively heavy user as I have the cheek to download a 400 meg game demo or actually play games online.

Not long to go before I move into my new place, where VM don't actually service :-D

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I understand fully the theory of your reply but that's not exactly what I'm asking.

Using your example of 7pm and being capped until midnight, I'm being punished for 3 hours past the peak hours of 4-9pm. Being punished 3 hours beyond that timeframe doesn't help traffic flow one iota between 4 and 9pm.

I could almost accept being capped until 9pm if forewarned in the correct manner, but this extra 3 hours seems excessive. Hope you understand my query now.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

The joke is of course that i havnt noticed any speed decrease except for when iv been traffic managed. Weird. So how are they working out that speeds are slow? Traffic management has been in place for over a year. wouldnt it in fact be the traffic management itself that is causing any congestion by diverting traffic to other times?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Unless 50mb is a free upgrade then it is dead in the water now.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:09 ----------

Nothing more certain.

Softly Softly Catchee Monkey. :monkey:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

how will people put up with this i mean look at the trouble it caused over the 4pm - 9pm time frame
now they’ve done it even worse no-one see’s to see the whole problem look at it this way

you hit your 6GB limit say within the 10AM time frame that’s 5 hrs throttled.

which then takes you to 3pm, then your un-throttled back to full speed up-to 4pm

from 4pm - 9pm if you hit your 3gb limit within the 4PM mark that takes you to 9pm,
now don’t forget you can trigger the STM within 1 min within 10am - 3pm /4pm - 9pm

so say you hit your trigger at 2:59pm, thats 8pm the first throttle will come off.
but you’ve already passed over into the 4pm -9pm throttle so that 8pm it removes.
who’s saying its not going to get mixed with the later STM so add 5 hours onto
9pm 1am - 10am your basically ever going to get 20mb.

probably got my maths all screwed up but you get the idea

what I’m trying to get at is, your allocated 3gb in peak time of full speed no STM right.
if you hit the STM at 2:59PM thats 5 hours STM’d right there basically NULLING out the
legitimate time you supposed to get 3GB allowance and no STM so you’ve basically got STM’d
all the way from Morning, Though till Noon, then Automatically hit Evening STM’

You can only use the connection un-throttled from 1am - 10am for now.

Pretty sneaky way of making sure within the 4pm - 9pm your STM’d regardless
of even touching the 3GB threshold, and how they getting away with this? easy really.

Regardless of how many people read this it could read Virgin stops users from ever connecting
but steals their money every month, and you know what? and i mean this …

People would continue to be the sheep and continue to follow without doing a damn thing about it.
you would all keep paying your £37 pounds to a company who’s now saying their fast BB is only to
be used between the hours of 1am - 10am… and where is the cost cutting? we don’t have any.

So the next Problem now is everyone will start downloading from 12am - 10am the network will
then get so congested they will start with STM from the 1am - 10am.

Virgin just cannot seem to understand people want to actually use their connections for what it
was originally created for, and now they are doing just that the ISPS were paying our money too
really doesn’t want to offer the service their offering and that were all paying for?

They don’t seem to get or understand swapping the times around all users will do is swap with them.
we started with .. 4pm -12pm, then dropped it to 4pm - 9pm what did users do?

they set their downloading from 1am - 4pm, now we have restrictions 10am - 3pm.
so users are going to set their downloads from 12am - 10am, so now your going to have
the entire country hammering the hell out of the connection from 12am - 10am so the speed
is going to be worse than ever during off peak time, so we’ve now created off peak time on peak.
and on peak time off peak,

Virgin people want to download people want to use their broadband for what it’s designed for.
and their using what they paid for, you advertised this is what it is for and when were doing just that
your hitting us with limits.

instead of shifting people around which is doing nothing only time shifting people why don’t you
just use the money were paying you to actually “Upgrade” the networks to cope?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Blimey i'm glad i had to leave VM when i did.

I get max 7mb on Be but i don't have to look at the clock before starting a download.

If i was still paying for 20mb i wouldn't be happy with this.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Let us sit down and think.
It takes less than 1% of VM's customers to use their connection to bring the whole network to a crawl for the other 99%

:D

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I'm laughing so much at that 1% thing, omg talk about blatant lies and deception.
1% of customers , so because of 1% of customers the whole country has to suffer?

i think they missed two zero's off the end since the BBC news on TV stated about the
3 strikes and your out policy that there is over 5.5 million people daily committing copyright.

5.5 million + all the rest they don't want to tell you about is more than 1% or 5%

So we have let me get this right.

10am - 3pm Restriction,
4pm 9pm + 5 hours Restriction.
Soon to have Overnight STM very soon like Trax said yes it's coming
so that's going to be from 1am - 5am Restriction

Then were going to have the Traffic Cops, 3 Strikes and your out,
then were going to have phrom watching us

Then Protocol throttling bittorrent/news servers going to be cut back.

and they still advertise this as "no restrictions and Unlimited"
I'd love to see their definition of "unlimited or restrictions lol

all this for the nice cheap price of £37 pounds a month which no doubt we will
be getting a price rise very soon on all tiers that's the next nail in the coffin.

Has virgin been taken over by them gremlins on the BT advert or what?

Advert i'm talking about for the people who's not seen it yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87z6O...eature=related

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

yeah love that. what does that say about the capacity of their network. that basically proves they are trying to overload the UBRs or whatever theyr called. So if some of that 1% would be 2mb customers then why are the 20 mb customers who are 10 times that amount getting the oppertunity to download nearly four times more data during so called traffic management. since wouldnt they actually be the ones who are congesting the network?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

more to the point trybrow if 2mb gets cut to 1mb, and 4mb to 2mb, and 10mb to 4mb.
why is 20mbit being cut to 5mb, it's stripey on the keyboard i'm telling ya he's just pushing
what ever keys he feels at the time, i swear when i watch that advert it should have
the Virgin brand writen all over it.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

forget the numbers, look at the times, if you want to up or download, fit it in when the network allows it - if people stopped trying to score points for being capped during peak times & tried actually using the bandwidth when it is available, they might have more luck ;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

The bandwidth should be available all the time, thats what you pay for, the convenience of using your connection when you want it, i'm not saying that you should be downloading 24/7 but if you get in from work, fire up your latest game and see you need a patch and start downloading it while watching some stuff on youtube why should you get managed? It makes no sense, you could download sod all in the day or night but if you want bandwidth at a time to suit you then you'll get penalised for it, Mr car boot whose connection is burning all day and night gets penalised the same as mr once a fortnight who downloads a patch and watches a few vids which takes him over the limit. where is the justice in that? And god help you if you're on adsl cos you'll get 8k/sec for a week during peak times, maybe they should inflict that on the 1% of heavy downloaders rather than imposing the limits that are in place now, that way the heavy users will get hit and not the occasional over the limit downloader.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I'm no longer calling them Virgin, because a company that likes to randomly screw customers doesn't deserve it.

I get back from vacation looking forward to 10mb, and on my first day home i'm capped unknowingly. It seems my cap just lifted, so it makes me wonder how long it will take for me to get capped even thought it's night.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

here's the lies behind it all.

it's nearly 1am right now lets just say everyone who's on here started their downloads
about 12am, and qued them up before going to bed, there is alot more people right now
who's using their connections maxing them out getting as much stuff as fast as they can
before the STM limit at 10am, look at your DL/UL speed now it's great smooth fast.

come morning, back to slow as a turtle when everyones at work or school.

so everyone in the country lets say for theory sets their downloads via the night.
that is a HUGE load and surge on virgin networks as normally people would download
in stages, some morning, evening noon, night, mid morning, it would be staggard.

right now everyone's hammering it all at the same time where's the traffic jam?
it doesn't exist there is no jam right now if people are downloading in the offpeak
with their torrents or download managers it should be slow to a crawl but its not.

it's all lies lies and more bollox.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

if you remain within the limits in peak time & do your downloads outside that, I cannot see how anyone is seriously inconvenienced - the comments regarding illegal modems are moot, but not strictly relevant to the majority of subscribers, the 'peak' times when STM occurs for the rest of us are published and can be avoided -if you are serious about uploading/downloading files, then do it outside the STM window - you have until 10 am, just now, for example, what do you want you cannot download in 9 hours at 9 Gig an hour???

---------- Post added at 00:57 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

please post your links to the bandwidth utilisation data on the network, just now, so we can decide if you are commenting on actual data, or just posting opinions as facts ;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Sorry no data no facts just common sense if people can't download in the restricted times
then the humans with brains will quickly change download habits to none restricting times.

were human were not animals, but then again an animal if it watching other animals being
shot because it crossed over a certain part of the land at the certain time of the day.
every day then see's animals not being shot while doing it in the dark

that animal would eventually have enough brains to cross that line at night time

again Common Sense says so :)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

You realise the whole point of having a faster connection is to download files faster, right? you know, to get the download over and done with so you can carry on with whatever your doing, right?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

so you are doing it, now, right, and are therefore happy, now, right - don't patronise. please, just do it ;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Patronise, moi? ;)

I download when i want, of course im not with VM so i dont get 75% of my connection taken away from me for it :p:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

just awaiting the new midnight early morning STM's to role in it wont be long now.
what i like to know is why isn't watchdog or the TV media/newspapers picking this up?

no-one seems interested and it's one of the biggest scams i've ever seen in a long time.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

So I take it you are quite happy to have limits on your XL package which you pay more for even though its been sold to you as UNLIMITED!

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

What limits - there are no limits, just now, fill your boots & download what you want, STM does not apply at this time, assuming you are not already in a 5 hour managed scenario from before 2100 - in which case 'more fool you' - otherwise you have 'unlimited' bandwidth according to your paid for speed until 10.00 am right now - about 8 & a half hours left - go for it :D

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

pippincp some people would defend and be happy if virgin burst through their doors.
ripped out the cable modem took it with them and slapped them with a removal bill.
then forced to sign a new contract saying they must never use virgin again ever.
but you still need to pay us 37 pounds a month every months for 24 months.

they'd take a good look at it say hmm, not bad price i can put up with that.
that's the whole impression i get of people here, who's actually paying customers.

maybe it's just me but when i decide i want something i pay for it, and the reason
i pay for it is that i originally wanted it in the first place so once I've paid for it
and I'm not getting it, should i therefore still be happy?

just because a company has screwed up by over subscribing this is my fault how?
why should i ever need to be sympathetic to any company because they've made a cock up?

I'm a customer it's my role to be provided with what I'm paying them for.
not my role to pat them on the back and say there, there, i understand totally
and while i understand totally, slap some more restrictions on me and if you want
increase my bill to cover the issue,.

They've been greedy trying to get more and more customers on board it's their mess.
why should i continue to have to pay more money for a less service than originally
just because there to greedy to use the money to upgrade the capacity or to allow
full capacity of the network to their users and stop holding it back.

be just as well going to the nearest grid and fluttering it right down there

And to the poster above "more fool you", omg ... lmao yes more fool him for using what he paid for bad boy!! how dare he!
i'm right now re-downloading Half Life 2 / Counter Strike Source it's just over 11GB in size after i re-installed my OS.

if i tried to do that anytime of the day which is when i wanted to play i would of been here till next tuesday.
what about the millions of others who need bandwidth to install games from the likes of Direct2drive or Steam?

Once again even the isp's still don't have a clue about the gamers or the people who love to test demo's
what makes me laugh is when you go onto tech support for an official speed check they even tell you to DL their Game Demo's!!
but when you come to downloading your own demo's/Steam/D2D ... your Restricted.

Yea i've gone over my limit with legit traffic ... how dare i? more fool me too? sorry did i ask for this?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

So you have no input other than your opinion

All my posts are based on what I actually get from VM, not opinion, conjecture, or rumour - not to dismiss your opinion, but the evidence you bring to the debate has to take that into account - imo ;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

i should be in bed right now at nearly 2am in a morning but i can't as i have to
nurse all my downloads right now and make sure they are done for tomorrow.

how many others are going to have to change their whole social life times around.
it's going to be causing deaths soon, people up all night to do something then
drive to work in the morning no sleep and totally knackered,

fall to sleep at the wheel, or work with machinary and get someone hurt real good.
i can see it now, cannot wait for the real media to grow a pair and report this story.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I meant more fool you for not being able to 'play the game' in order to get what you want, rather than score points, it is possible, but the motives may be different? :)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I used to be with VM though and the STM during 4-9pm was more than a slight annoyance.

Glad i got rid of them as i knew this was going to be rolled out nationally.

I think someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they said (on another forum) VM are turning into another tiscali, only more expensive.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Who's on about "at this time?" I am on about the UNLIMITED 20mbps package I've been paying for from the moment it was rolled out in the Manchester area.
(I had NO problems when it was NTL). I and everyone else in this area is LIMITED to 750MBs between 4.00pm and 12.00am. Considering I work 6.00am - 6.00pm this only gives me less than 6hrs full bandwidth for downloading if I don't turn my PC off when I go to bed. To put it in a nutshell I can download ONE CD when I get home and if I wish to download anything else my PC HAS to be on 24 hrs. That doesn't include the slow browsing in the time I have left when the STM kicks in.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

'nurse' downloads, 'cause deaths' - my personal opinion is that your issues transcend the thread, I'm ceasing to reply to such ridiculous concepts, if you cannot set your downloads to 'safely' execute at this time of night, you have problems that, imo, Virgin Media are never going to be able to help you with.....

---------- Post added at 01:56 ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 ----------

So you cannot download anything, now ?

---------- Post added at 01:58 ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 ----------

In other words you have nothing to add to the debate ?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

The fact STM does not affect you, as you say, means you have nothing more to add to the debate either ;).

It's not your business what other people do with their connections, you cant complain because VM has sold it as unlimited and people are actually using it.

Again, the whole point of a high speed connection is so you can download files faster, not start the download, have a 20mbit speed burst for 20 mins then down to 5mbit taking twice as long to get the file downloaded.

All because your happy to sit here and be ripped off it does not mean others are.

You seem to think anyone who downloads is an abuser? what about households with more than 1 pc? people who have kids? i can easily use that STM limit up within an hour with iplayer/youtube/game/updates/patches.

You think its fair to class them as abusers because they sometimes have to download large files?

You do realise STM is NOT in place to stop heavy downloaders, right?

It's there so they can keep on signing more people up while not having to give the customers what they are actually paying for.

I think you need to remember normal people have lifes, jobs and other things to do...and are only online for a few hours today, if they want to download something in those few hours at the speed they are paying for ,they should be allowed.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

@homealone (I wonder why).

I'm on tonight because I'm on day off tomorrow, there's nothing I wish to download now. There may be nothing till Monday when I'm working and don't see it until I get home, then it'll be difficult for me due to STM.

Both Graphix and Trax Data have entered more constructive points to this debate than your "one track mind" replies.

I can see questions need to be put concisely to you so I will.

Are you happy paying for an UNLIMITED PREMIUM SERVICE but not getting the same???

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

There is no need to be insulting to homealone, just because he has a different viewpoint to yours, his comments are as constructive and valid as the next mans. You may not agree with him but you do need to insult him.:td:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I know what the stars on their latest advert say,but Vm towers never thought customers would actually go ahead and do as their advert "stated" you could !:nono:



Right,the latest letter that i recieved today from Vm towers,about their new methods for enhancing the customers web experience(stm),has a part "But you can still download loads"(Vm towers bold)"massive amounts" ,Vm towers further states on the back of the page the massive amounts you are "allowed".

The part that stands out for me,and it isn't the massive amounts,but the fact that in the table displayed ,the amount is now clearly stating as fact limits have now been set in place ,but then further down the page they state once again that "you still have unlimited downloads",completely contradicting what Vm towers table above has shown and said.

This table also says how much you can download in a "24 hour period"(for gods sake,we can't use it through the day but instead they actually want us to now do it at some ungodly hour ) ,instead of having the table reflect when the vast majority of users use their BB service ,as in a 12 hour "daily" period,and thus this table would then show people what their 50 mb super fast ,unlimited ,uncapped isp was really able to provide us,their paying customers with.

Finally ,we are classed as one of those 1% of awful people that can bring the Vm towers network to a crawl ,one who dares to use their super fast unlimited BB connection for more than reading emails and checking the local help the aged events , even though our BB line is shared with the rest of our household ,Vm towers have nothing in place to distinguish between the two types of customer,instead their letter tells us to upgrade our BB package ,(£37 a month for 5mb seems a bit pricey,or is that just me) or change our behaviour ,the nerve of them !

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

While I don't deny some of those points, the fact is most are surmountable with strategy, if you want to 'dumb down' use of the internet, then fair do - your 'normal people' may have some issues - but I don't think you really expect 'most' people are as dumb as you think & you are just trying to pursue an agenda.

Not a problem, in itself, but don't underestimate the casual user - there is no reason why they cannot be educated to get the most from their connection - and queuing downloads outside of STM time slots is part of that, imo :)

/ queues download, sets pc to shut down when complete, goes to bed ...

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

It's not a matter of educating them, it's a matter of why should they have to?

They are paying for a high speed connection, they should be allowed to use it when they need it, not when they are in bed.

What use is it when your asleep? you cant game/play demos/watch iplayer while your asleep can you? are you superhuman? :p:

So basically your saying customers should pay £37 for that high speed connection so they can use it when they are in bed, you should work for VM, you'd make a great manager, neil has the same views, sell them something, just dont let them use it. :dunce:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

That IS the exact type of person that defends the bbc/capita tv tax methods ,particularly the tv tax threatening letters and the bbc/capitas enforcement officers methods over on the digitalspy forums.

Only too happy to hand over their money and even say thank you for the further kick in the knackers.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

@ frogstamper. Point taken

---------- Post added at 02:40 ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 ----------

Just to clarify, GraphiX wasn't referring to me but to a comment I'd made in reply to a previous one. In fact I emailed VM threatening to leave and have had £9.00 knocked off my monthly bill.
They've told me it will improve in a month(is that the 50 Mbps rollout?) but I've told them if it doesn't I'm still off! I'd still pay less with BE and BT line rental!

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

---------- Post added at 02:49 ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 ----------


Yeah,i understood GraphiX's comment :)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

If VM stick to what they have "intimated" on the 50 Mbps rollout, ie STM will be relaxed as pressure will be off the system, I will consider staying with them - especially with my £9.00 pm discount for min 12 months :p::p::p::p::p:
But I will still be off to BE if it doesn't pan out as I've had so many good reports about them.

IMHO ALL premium users should threaten to leave, get the discount and then VM might actually listen!

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

VM are not bothered about losing customers over this, less customers more network resources (should have sodding upgraded the network in the first place - although C&W did spout that Manchester for one had one of the best cable networks...liars!) - I have had many a discussion about this and been told that it is still an unlimited service as i can still download unlimited amounts of data, they will not accept that it is a limited service and still claim they can sell it as an unlimited BB service.

Whats going to happen when VM decide to go with streaming TV, are we going to be limited on the amount of TV we can watch?!?!?!

The STM system is a complete joke and is doing nothing but to push customers off the network and elsewhere - IMO I can't wait to see this shower of *****e go bust

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Mr Homealone we've obviously got different opinions on what you're supposed to get from VM, which is great, different opinions open up different arguments so its nice to see everyone isnt a VM hater on here, I dunno what you meant about illegal modems, I certainly didnt mention or know anything about them, when I spoke about mr car booter i was referring to the kind of user who downloads stuff all day long, not somebody with dodgy hardware.
VM say on their website that traffic managing only affects 5% of their user base on a daily basis, I cant argue with that as I dont know the figures but I'd argue that it could affect anybody, not just the high downloaders, as I said before, a patch here, bit of streaming TV and you're into traffic management grounds, I dont think theyre using the right method to prop the network up, if they actually traffic managed the top 5% of downloaders instead of putting a bandwidth usage up that could restrict people who arent heavy users then that might be lot better, check the adsl policy, maybe thats more like what they should be looking at for broadband, obviously not with an 8k/sec limit though.
I've said it before and i'll say it again, its all about convenience, if i've paid for a connection so I can make fast downloads when I want and watch streaming tv when I want then that IS what I want!
VM at the moment seems like the dutch boy and the dam constantly looking for timezones to plug so the network doesnt fall over.

p.s I was with Blueyonder for 5 years (cheer), vm adsl for 6 weeks (booo) now i'm with BE and all is hunky dory for now.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

While I agree with the nay-sayers that having to wait until 9pm to start my 4Mb/s downloads is an inconvenience, I'll have downloaded over 150GB this month without being STM'd once.

If you feel that VM are ripping you off, then write and complain; downgrade your connection; demand a discount; or dump your cable connection and switch to ADSL. There's at least a chance that letting VirginMedia know that you are unhappy might persuade them to change their policy.

But adding another, increasingly hysterical, claim of how STM will endanger the planet on CableForum will get you nowhere. And criticizing helpful and knowledgeable people like homealone is out of order. Please stop it.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

The only possible positive to come out of this whole debacle is a clearly defined area of heavy usage that can go unpunished- after nine o’clock? You can appoint that free-for-all-time for all the indulgent downloading you want, and the rest of the time for surfing and surely, online gaming.

It is not ideal and does sound restrictive, but with a slight tweak to normal operational usage, no one will be punished(till the find someway to throttle overnight downloaders)

I guess the ire gets stoked because Virgin have incorporated a punitive angle to their service of late. I got disconnected from the internet and television because I slightly exceeded my monthly credit. A credit limit that they arbitrarily impose.

And this arbitrariness is again in force with what they consider heavy usage and this is no light calculation, this takes into consideration lifestyle choices, normal usage parameters and an internet paradigm of some twenty years

Which is hopelessly out of date.

Really, they should be thinking about how they can exploit the top users and get them to pay for premium channels that offer huge downloading opportunities, not punish them. They are a customer base, an untapped fiscal resource. What Virgin are lacking is the intelligence to corral them into an exploitative situation where their unique use identity can be used

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

This daytime management is supposed to have kicked in already - yes?
Does this apply to everyone? I presume it does.
I'm just hitting 3Gb down so far today - no STM has kicked in here yet.
I was trying to find out what level of STM the existing 4Mb users are getting - the new "L" mangement or the old "L" management.. Seems to be the old one. None through the day and 800Mb between 4pm & 9pm - sure there's a good few of us still on 4Mb that would find that info handy.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Karl Rio in the VM TS newsgroup suggests that "If it's on our customer facing website...I'm guessing it's live now" even though you can't navigate to the new page from www.virginmedia.com.

I've requested twice that he check to find out when it does go live but he seems reluctant to pass the query up the line.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I probably would not be bothered IF STM started at 9.00pm as I'm usually not far off going to bed (6.00am - 6.00pm shifts) BUT I'm in the Manchester area where STM is between 4.00pm (before I finish work!) and 12.00 am (when I'm in bed!). OK I may "ONLY" work 4 days a week but work 48 hrs pw. My employer expects and pays for those 48 hours. How would he react if I said I was only working 40 of those because he was working me too hard???

ATM the STM restricts me at EXACTLY the hours I am available to use the service when I finish work. Don't forget I'm in "yet another Trial Area" which means 750MB download within the hours of 4.00pm and 12.00am.

I am an XL subscriber and paying a premium for it. I could go on but I won't, at least I got a tech support guy to admit that VM are lying b******s

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Yeah, saw that ceedee.
I'm also having difficulty, but with getting info on the STM scales for those not yet upgraded to 10Mb from 4Mb.
Though Alex Brown says:
it appears either he doesn't know or he's not told anyone else exactly what these increases are because so far, two techs have failed to give me an answer.
As I say, so far, no increases or daily STM for me, so I'm taking advantage of that while it lasts. Particularly handy for me today as I need to grab some large media from work for over the weekend and was dreading the management kicking in.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I read several cable forums and the VM newsgroups (almost) every day and I've never heard of those trial times or thresholds.
Could you copy whatever VM notification you've received as I'd like to investigate further?

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------

Other, less charitable posters, might suggest that Alex is making it up as he goes along...
:shocked:

Heaviest Virgin Media downloaders face new daytime go-slow
 

so does that mean that from 4pm to 9pm i can upload asmuch as i want as the upload limits are only 10am to 3pm?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05..._restrictions/

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Not *just* Alex.
In this post I pointed out that the NG tech's were giving us (always changing) dates for the upgrade. Now I'm told all they know is what's on the upgrade page on VM's site. With that, I'm starting to think they were making them up as they went along too. Why would they once know, but now don't?
I smell a fish..
However - roaming off topic with that so I guess it's the usual sit tight (very much) in the dark and see what someone eventually decided to do.

---------- Post added at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

Upstream limits are between 3pm and 8pm.

http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I don't think I'm any different to most people in that my 'take' on this is based on my personal useage/preferences, and I accept that other people will have different views - streaming media is one thing, for example, which I don't do & I can see how that being restricted by STM might upset some people.

Most of my bandwidth use, apart from normal browsing, is confined to downloads from usenet, which is very simple to organise to fall outside the STM 'windows' - even to the point of automatically turning the pc off when finished, if done overnight.

So I'm not such an apologist for VM as it might seem - however, your comment about 'why should they have to' is a little facile, imo - if you want something badly enough, then putting a little effort into getting it shouldn't be such a problem & while this isn't aimed at you, just sitting back & saying 'its not fair, why should I' doesn't really work. TANSTAAFL applies, in my opinion??

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

The days of Telewest was great no problems

Virgin came and messed that up

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I can see your point in that you can schedule your downloads around the STM, but what about people who decide they wish to purchase a game from Valve or Steam (whatever it is) or people like me who download a demo from xbox live to play (which is way under the supposed threshold) and then we are thrown on this pathetic STM system as we are deemed heavy users?

But how am I supposed to put a little effort in wanting to play games with my friends, am I to stay up all night until such time the stupid system is not meant to be in place?

The way Virgin are at the moment, I can't play online games properly as my connection is STM'd when they feel like it, if I download a demo I am STM'd, I daren't download an xbox original as they are over 1gig, films that I could want to rent from live are also a no no as they are 5gig for the HD version. This is not unlimited internet by a longshot its a restrictive version of what they once had as unlimited.

At the end of the day doing what they are doing is going to make people jump ship a lot quicker than they may have done in the past. And why are they only writing to people now with this wonderful new idea to screw people over when the system has been in place for months?

Before anything like this was put in place they should have made sure it was working perfectly as it isn't at the moment, and if its so easy to STM people why can't they just target the supposed 5% of the people who are abusing the service and restrict their usage? They are taring everyone with the same brush.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

This is well out of order - the only reason I've stayed with VM so far (following their ever increasing pricing for phone calls and the change to the mobile 300/300 deal) was because of the unlimited downloads.

I am not a high user - I backup my websites weekly (200Mb), watch a couple of iplayer progs, internet radio and occasionally download a cd iso. But as a 2Mb user I was surprised how frequently my service slowed down. I thought it was just lousy service but now I know it is because the download limit for 2Mb users is only 512Mb a day and is easily exceeded.

As a group we should complain to trading standards that VM advertise unlimited downloads when clearly that is not the case.

VM are already suffering with customer loss and squeezing the life our of us loyal customers is not going to help them retain us.

If others do the same the internet as a medium for tv/radio distribution etc will never get beyond it's infancy.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

so i can uplaod asmuch as i want during 10am and 3pm then without being stmed?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Actually the only reply I have to that concerns the films - and I have to admit that the restrictions in place actually encourage people to illegally download, e.g. from usenet, rather than purchase/hire legitimate copies e.g. from live, so you do have a point. I also entirely agree that the 'unlimited' description should be removed from their marketing blurbs.

Re: New STM Confirmed
 

Trax mate, There really are no overnight STM Trials running..

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I've yet to hear of anyone exceeding the STM thresholds by playing a game. And I'd guess that most games would work okay if played while under STM.

Could you not download a 5GB HD movie from Live overnight to watch the next day?

I feel your frustration but the only thing that VM are limiting is your connection *speed* -- the amount you download is not limited. You may not feel there's much difference but the ASA think otherwise.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

:confused: Yeah, but also 14 hours before 10am too.

You're not getting this are you!

Limits are between 3pm & 8pm.
ANYTHING uploaded outside those hours will not get you managed.
So between 8pm in the evening until 3pm the next day - 19 hours.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Is this the price we have to pay for having 151 Tech Support.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

It hasn't been officially confirmed, but I believe the 'price' of the forthcoming free 151 tech support is redundancies for the employees currently providing tech Support in the UK via the newsgroups...:(

Re: New Virgin traffic managent - so that's why it's slow!
 

Spot on matey :)

Re: New STM Confirmed
 

Alex confirmed it, mate ;)

Re: New STM Confirmed
 

pwned

;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I thought you went over to a VM Business Line Traxdata with NO STM, please correct me if im wrong?
Why did you ditch that? VM Business lines no good? (Just interested mate)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Haven't you said before that Alex is a liar?

Re: New STM Confirmed
 

Got a link ;) :LOL:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Edit not to matter, ive just read the 20MB Business Broadband thread.....

STM on a Business Broadband Package, now that is crazy.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Yep...i finally gave in and left them, lost phone, tv, bb and business bb and the much higher package (nearly 1k/month) BB from a business i run with someone.

I have made sure to tell other busineses about how they will be treated with VM as well.

The business i run with someone else now uses verizon (100mbit symetrical @ £120/month) which truely is unlimited. special offer price though ;)

And when at home (at parents now as im ill, in/out of hospital for a while) i'm on 25mbit symetrical (sometimes reaches upto 100mbit) for £50/month.

Dont miss VM one bit.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

people keep saying overnight STM isn't in trial but people also kept saying don't be stupid
they wont ever STM twice in a day, Trax said previous about other STM's and everyone
was like your smoking the crack pipe.

if the've gone and done it once, then twice, and i assure you once everyone starts
to move their downloading habits through the night they will i assure you move the
STM limits over night, they've already proved this TWICE when will you people take
the blinkers off, they've already done it twice already what's stopping them?

but then again some people's attitude would be "well i am quite ok with being raped"
well sorry but when I'm paying for something i don't like being pillaged daily for the hell of it.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

mmmm, good comparison - rape versus Traffic Management.

Obviously a committed feminist.........

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I can't download more then 1.4Gb between 3pm and 8pm !!! For £37 per month!.... Where's the value in that!...
:shocked::shocked::shocked:

WTF.
:confused::confused:

And there traffic management is now 10AM until 8PM.!!!
:td::td::td::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I hope you seriously lose the network ownership Virgin!.... Your the biggest bunch of Business muppets ever to walk the earth... Jeez..

Please could someone link me to the best thread on how to cancel the service please... Thanks

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Nope. It's 10am til 9pm!
But you do get an hour break in the middle of the day.
;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Where are you getting those figures from?

You can download 3GB before STM cuts in, then around 2GB / hour once it has, where does the 1.4GB come from?

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Ever tried downloading while your being stm'd and trying to use the net at the same time? its impossible, makes you feel like ur on dial up.

Thus when your stm'd ur connection is only really useful for browsing.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

He's looking at upstream I think..


[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Thanks Traxdata. I was trying to think of a nice way of putting it. People seem to think that STM isn't that bad... In fact it cripples my service completly.. That's why I said I can only download 1.4 GB Between 10am and 9pm. basically I can't download and browse normally at the same time after being STM'd.

Being STM'd isn;t a mild restriction of service.. It's like having there ful package with TV phone etc... But you can only use one at a time..How stupid.. Oh must turn the TV and Broadband off for a while I need to order a curry.... Get my meaning,..

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Even if a 2mb connection was stm'd to 1mb that is still enough to play games on live, admittedly though you wouldn't want to be the host in a large lobby.

Playing devils advocate here, from VMs point of view they can still claim "unlimited" service because although your overall speed may be cut, the amount you can download isn't, there still isn't any monthly limit.:shrug:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

ah, right - even so, he implied that was an absolute limit, the service doesn't stop when you hit the limit, it 'just' slows down.


768Kb/s = 0.768Mb/s = 2765Mb/hour = 345MB/hour

so it takes approx 4 hours to hit the 1400MB limit, at which point it will slow to around 86MB/hour

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Nice bit scaremongering, like to expand on that...

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...undancies.html

as I say it hasn't been confirmed - but direct enquiries in the newsgroups have been answered with basically 'cannot comment at this time' - I believe 6th June is when it will kick off with official notice being given - if it is true, of course.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

[QUOTE=ceedee;34563472]I read several cable forums and the VM newsgroups (almost) every day and I've never heard of those trial times or thresholds.
Could you copy whatever VM notification you've received as I'd like to investigate further?

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------


I would love to provide you with notification from VM but ,as usual none was sent. I merely quote what I was told by tech services when I complained about my speed.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

While it's possible that other 'secret' trials are going on in specific areas, I'm 99% certain that whoever you spoke to has misunderstood VM's traffic management policy *and* the supposed trial thresholds.
I'd seriously recommend you start a separate thread here describing in detail the times you've been STM'd and what you've been told on the phoneline.
And when you next notice a drastic drop in performance out of the published hours, post the details to the Tech Support newsgroup.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I've tried to look on the positive side with this stm buisness, but if VM brought it in over night even I couldn't defend that, it would be the kiss of death. Having said that I can't believe they would bring overnight stm in anyway.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

More from Alex Brown for the NGs

- You also said no current plans to roll out the new STM policy nationwide.

:scratch:

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

oo good

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Tougher sanctions are on the way for customers who have the audacity to expect Virgin to deliver on their promise of an unlimited service:-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05..._restrictions/

This gives me more amunition to make a claim under the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 ;)

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

this explains it then...

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

What that tells me is that if enough customers download outside of stm hours as VM are advising people then theres a chance that those hours too will get stm'd. I think its whats known as moving the goalposts.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

Have you noticed how no one believed him and now everyone is ganging up on him ? :D

Still doing his one liners...skirting round the truth making it feel like he's answered a question when he hasnt.

Or just says "incorrect"

Yep...gotta love alex.

Re: New STM/Virgin traffic managent confirmed - so that's why it's slow!
 

I believe you're right. Forcing everyone to download overnight is what they want so they can go ahead with the next phase of STM. It's lucky you can't swear on this forum. :mad:

Re: New STM Confirmed
 

Not to me he didnt:)

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

With regards to Overnight STM.. This is exactly what I have been saying! The only way there would be any consideration of STM overnight would be if the contention through the night was higher than than during the peak hours. I can't see that somehow.
If the heavier users want to content for the bandwidth through the night then no problem. They just won't be getting 20Mb/s once there is more than 2 of them going for line rate.