Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526291)

For "admitting" to using illegal boxes on a forum? ;)

Originally Posted by piggy (Post 34526127)

thats maybe so but cable-guy checked his facts on google so he knows :erm:

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526198)

No. I think you will find that he has not admitted anything to the police, but rather in a public forum under an assumed alias, and that there is no proof a criminal offence has actually been committed. This is not evidence anyone would take seriously or care about.

Incidentally, I stole a car yesterday. No, two.

Originally Posted by TraxData (Post 34526292)

No, VM are working in co-operating with the police to get warrants to search properties for illegal equipment, they can trace you quite easily.

Originally Posted by TraxData (Post 34526292)

No, VM are working in co-operating with the police to get warrants to search properties for illegal equipment, they can trace you quite easily.

P.S i suppose you could say for admitting on a forum as they have caught people by tracing them through IP's with forums as well.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526312)

I would have thought there were ways to track cloned boxes, but many of the other boxes would be extremely difficult.

I refuse to believe even Virgin are thick enough to go after individual users in this manner. It is in no way, shape or form cost effective or any kind of effective, unless the people they are going after are selling illegal equipment on a large scale. They would never get a search warrant purely on the basis of forum usage, though, I think places like eBay would probably release the details of people selling illegal equipment.

Anyway, VM customers must at least be happy that they're finally paying some kind of attention to the TV division. :)

Also, I asked you this earlier, and you didn't reply. How widespread do VM consider piracy to be? I've only just started reading up on it over the last few days when this thread appeared, and my impression is that some of it would actually be beneficial to them. Personally, I know a lot of people who have Virgin TV, but I don't know a single person who uses an illegal box. The-cable-guy's story about whole streets hooked up with illegal cable sounded exaggerated, or at least atypical to me.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526314)

lol i never said that there were whole streets hooked up with illegal cable, you misunderstood me completely. all that im saying is that in some parts of the country where i have lived in the past, there are alot of ppl getting cable for free. so plz dont twist my words as i never said what you tried to say that i did.

thanks

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526326)

? ya what ?

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526325)

It's hardly unreasonable to get that impression from "the whole street was out in a gang with baseball bats". Are you saying people with no stake in this took up baseball bats and joined the fray just for fun?

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526339)

haha sounds quite funny actually.

Originally Posted by TraxData (Post 34526335)

No, im saying it was in a rough area where literally the whole street was stealing both cable tv and BB which i and another had the misfortune to go disconnect them, out of 26 houses there was only 2 legal connections.

Originally Posted by TraxData (Post 34526347)

Some people are just *aherms*...simple as that really? in a rough area they expect everything for free...

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526198)

No. I think you will find that he has not admitted anything to the police, but rather in a public forum under an assumed alias, and that there is no proof a criminal offence has actually been committed. This is not evidence anyone would take seriously or care about.

Incidentally, I stole a car yesterday. No, two.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526355)

...also they messed up my credit ratings cuz they tried to charge me upto four times a month for my broad band, its sorted now like however its taken me over 1 & 1/2 years to get to this stage.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526359)

I think you will find if you were in a thread about cars being stolen and youa dmited to it, then you the Police might well look into it.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526371)

Yes, this brings us neatly back to my point about how Virgin's own accounting problems have far more of an effect on paying subscribers than cable piracy would have.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526374)

mate your missing the point VMs customer service/billing department & ppl getting services for free both have an effect on VMs customers.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526359)

Regardless, if they wanted, the owners of this site could well pass on information if they think anything dodgy is going on to Virgin which in turn could pass it onto the Police.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526388)

an effect is an effect no matter how big or small it is.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526371)

Yes, this brings us neatly back to my point about how Virgin's own accounting problems have far more of an effect on paying subscribers than cable piracy would have.

Stealing a car is a serious criminal offence. Stealing cable TV is not. Just look at TraxData's story about going to a rough street to disconnect as many as 24 offenders. He didn't go with search warrants and the police, because it's not worth it, unless trying to catch people selling the equipment or services associated with piracy. I think there was even a thread in this very forum some time ago about someone who had phoned his cable company to report a neighbour, and was told they weren't interested,

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526393)

But, as I said, an insignificant one. When have you ever been charged 4 month's subscription due to other people's piracy? In fact, when have you ever had any ill effects as a result of someone else's TV piracy?

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526393)

But, as I said, an insignificant one. When have you ever been charged 4 month's subscription due to other people's piracy? In fact, when have you ever had any ill effects as a result of someone else's TV piracy?

Originally Posted by Doofy (Post 34526396)

I Believe that would have been me. I did get it sorted out but not with VM's help. tbh there are plenty of people around here with cloned modems still up and running i simply do not care anymore. It is a long and painful process to report anyone and quite frankly a complete waste of time VM simply will not do anything about this. Still winds me up that i have to pay, or should i say choose to pay for my services, while they are getting away scot free but i guess thats the way it is going to be.

Originally Posted by Doofy (Post 34526396)

Still winds me up that i have to pay, or should i say choose to pay for my services, while they are getting away scot free but i guess thats the way it is going to be.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526399)

whether i have or not is my own business.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526402)

well at least its not as bad as it is in America you can get cable for free over there using tin foil lol

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526409)

Heh, I'll take that as a no, then. ;)

Originally Posted by SMHarman (Post 34526411)

Maybe in some parts but the analog networks and chokes are going fast. Major metro areas are all digital cable.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526416)

you like to twist my words dont you :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by TraxData (Post 34526347)

Some people are just *aherms*...simple as that really? in a rough area they expect everything for free...

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34526478)

As far as I can see these thieves who steal cable can come on here and try and justify its a victimless crime as much as they like, the bottom line is that the majority of CF posters pay for their services basically because that's what decent people do in this life, if I were one of the thieves I would be ashamed to come on a public forum boasting about how clever I was because I steal. As one of the thieves is so fond of saying, that's my FINAL VERDICT.:mad:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34526478)

As far as I can see these thieves who steal cable can come on here and try and justify its a victimless crime as much as they like, the bottom line is that the majority of CF posters pay for their services basically because that's what decent people do in this life, if I were one of the thieves I would be ashamed to come on a public forum boasting about how clever I was because I steal. As one of the thieves is so fond of saying, that's my FINAL VERDICT.:mad:

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526513)

I think in your blind, ill-informed fit of self-righteous outrage, you have misunderstood something along the way.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34526516)

I actually thought he made a pretty good point and it definitely wasn't a... 'blind, ill-informed fit of self-righteous outrage', as you put it.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526517)

There was the issue of me supposedly being a thief, which seemed to be caused mostly by his outrage about this whole thing, and it certainly falls under the ill-informed category, considering my comments in this thread. It also remains to be seen if he really is as virtous as he claims with regards to not breaking any laws. If he isn't, that would somewhat undermine his would-be good point.

Still, it's late, so bygones. :)

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34526518)

Ive said my piece mate, and quite frankly it speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526513)

I think in your blind, ill-informed fit of self-righteous outrage, you have misunderstood something along the way. I don't even have cable, nor have I in any way condoned stealing of such services, I'm just saying the effects of doing so are relatively insignificant, and in the case of those who pay for a minimum subscription, arguably beneficial to the cable companies. Anyway, can I assume you're one of those people who have never done any speeding, downloaded mp3s, movies, TV shows or broken any laws whatsoever? Stamped on any frogs, perhaps? That's gotta be illegal.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526522)

while you have a point with what you said about torrents, as you dont have cable you have noway of knowing the effect that it has on us paying cable customers.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526525)

i aint gonna defend VM in anyway as iv said a few posts back i got well & truely ripped off by them. however why should someone get services for free that we pay for & btw im not well off im on the doll mate, so i cant really afford to pay for internet & TV however i do as im not a theif.

Originally Posted by TraxData (Post 34526292)

No, VM are working in co-operating with the police to get warrants to search properties for illegal equipment, they can trace you quite easily.

P.S i suppose you could say for admitting on a forum as they have caught people by tracing them through IP's with forums as well.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526549)

your question has already been answered in this very post mate.

Originally Posted by Raistlin (Post 34524343)

Because, of course, the skills of you 'coders' could never be put to any better use than stealing cable services could they?

I mean, what better way to utilise your l33t 5k1lz than to 'hack' (and I use that term in the perjoritive sense often applied by modern popular media, not the respectful sense in which is has been applied to some of the greatest true hackers of our time) cable set-top boxes so you can get your daily dose of boobies and football?

I only hope that two things happen:

1) that the cable operators find a way to shaft you no-hope, service stealing, thieves, for good, and
2) that they work out who you are and take the money they've saved by not having to maintain a service to your dodgy boxes and spend it screwing you for every penny you have.

Have a nice day though :)

Originally Posted by saabmania2 (Post 34526556)

:rofl::rofl::rofl: well said
on another note a workmate of mine told me his friend uses a cloned modem and box so i asked him his address and grassed him up he's currently waiting to see what the police/vm do, one less thief off the network hehe!!:D

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34524356)

What sort of fool comes on a cable forum and boasts how easy it is to steal cable from a company the vast majority of us pay our hard earned cash to?:dunce:

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526303)

Losttheplot was saying that you can change the CAM using software updates & the like, which while its possible you cant go messing with things like that even if you are a company cuz you'd get sued & in oder for us to use both Videoguard & Nagravision (as Losttheplot was suggesting) we would need two CAMs. also i wouldnt of written what i had about how cable tv works if i hadnt checked up on it first (although i already knew about it before hand). as iv already said im not being funny but some ppl on here dont like to admit when their wrong even when you give them the facts/proof.

.

Originally Posted by SOSAGES (Post 34526648)

so im a little confused..
does virgin have a way of tracking the hacked modems? (and kicking them off)

and can it track the "chipped" boxes? or is it just going after the sources of the "chipped" boxes and changing encrytion keys a lot?

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526126)

Isnt that their problem? Hang on while I go and boast to the Police that Im stealing cable, just wouldnt happen would it. So if they are thinking of saying it, then they might think twice before they do. Whats the point in reporting any crime because people might be boasying about it.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34526664)

Usually (in my experience) people who report a crime have some evidence that a crime has occurred.

Also, how would virgin know who to go after, even assuming they believed us? All we have is an IP, which could be faked. Even assuming the person talking about it was silly enough to fill out their profile with the right details, we still don't know they have.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526371)

Yes, this brings us neatly back to my point about how Virgin's own accounting problems have far more of an effect on paying subscribers than cable piracy would have.

Stealing a car is a serious criminal offence. Stealing cable TV is not. Just look at TraxData's story about going to a rough street to disconnect as many as 24 offenders. He didn't go with search warrants and the police, because it's not worth it, unless trying to catch people selling the equipment or services associated with piracy. I think there was even a thread in this very forum some time ago about someone who had phoned his cable company to report a neighbour, and was told they weren't interested,

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34526664)

Usually (in my experience) people who report a crime have some evidence that a crime has occurred.

Also, how would virgin know who to go after, even assuming they believed us? All we have is an IP, which could be faked. Even assuming the person talking about it was silly enough to fill out their profile with the right details, we still don't know they have.

An analogy: If a stranger used a false name, wore a disguise, walked up to you saying he (or she, as we have no way of verifying Gender either) had stolen a CD player, then walked off, would you report it to the police? How do you think the police would react if you told them that someone you have no hope of identifying nicked a CD player?

Originally Posted by Losttheplot (Post 34526628)

I think you need to read a little more carefully.

I said you can change the software on the embedded CAM, its part of the STB, you can change the software on the box and hence the embedded CAM. Who would sue you? Its Virgins STB, they own the box and have licensed any bits and pieces within it. In short they can do what they want. As far as needing two CAM's, I never said it. Virgin can simulcrypt, so that two encryption methods are being used, the software on the box would be changed to that required for the new CA system (more than likely Nagra again) and a new smartcard issued for the new CA, all done with the single CAM within the STB. I've also never said they would use Videoguard.

You haven't posted anything of your own about how cable TV works, you posted an american article mainly based on how analogue cable TV works in america. In the UK we have different channel bandwidths so alot of what was posted isn't relevant. America uses ATSC for its digital, we use DVB. Unfortunately with a name like 'the-cable-guy' people are going to assume you know what you are talking about and are in the cable industry, are you?

I worked for 7 years on digital cable. I've also worked on various digital TV systems around Europe, on CA, Multiplexing and Encoding - MPEG2/H.264 SD and HD.
When NDS changed Sky's encryption I handled the upgrade of the 70 or so Professional receivers in one of the Super Headends. New software was required on the professional recievers in the headends and on the domestic Sky boxes in peoples homes to handle the new CA, Sky then sent out all the new CA smartcards. Sky did it, Virgin will do it a similar way.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526730)

you clearly dont know how cable works or how to read.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526737)

ok so we have two CAMs according to you.

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526743)

companies cant go changing CAMs.

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526745)

If virgin had to supply new cards to everyone the amount of money they would lose will be millions and they can't afford too. who has a chipped box??come on own up!

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526739)

Yes its true all the cards have gone off but for how long?? not for very long as a new fix will be out very soon. It was about time the Virgin implemented a new keyroll method because it gives ppl like me another challange to work out how new keyroll method works and implement that into a code. Btw not all cards have gone off only cards which emulates an original rom card such as funs, and atmegas which has been hit. My modified mosc is working good as gold. Why pay if you can get something for free...If your a rich sod then fair enough you can afford extra fruits of life but if your poor sod like me getting something free is always the way. Virgin will be out of business if we couldn't hack there system because lets face it if i had to pay I will go for sky no doubt as they offer a better service and virgin knows that. Cable is ***** if you have to pay for it.Virgin makes there money from selling braodband even that is hacked and telephones. They make only small amount of money from there tv service.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526747)

Im going to smash your car window and hot wire it and borrow it, heck I might not even bring it back, but thats ok because if you can get it for free, why pay?

Originally Posted by Losttheplot (Post 34526750)

That makes no sense! You'd be cold if you smashed the window. ;)

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526716)

Stealing is stealing, doesnt matter if it is a car or a TV service, they are both equally as wrong.

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526739)

Virgin makes there money from selling braodband even that is hacked and telephones. They make only small amount of money from there tv service.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526747)

Im going to smash your car window and hot wire it and borrow it, heck I might not even bring it back, but thats ok because if you can get it for free, why pay?

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526758)

No. I think you will find that in the eyes of the law, they are very different offences, which carry were different penalties, and thus they are not equally wrong. By your logic, stealing cable and killing someone are equally wrong, merely by virtue of being against the law. You can say they're both wrong, which I wouldn't dispute, but they're clearly not equally wrong.

You're not far off there. There's obviously no benefit to them from having people leech off what should have been disconnected services, but as I've repeatedly said, there's no question that Virgin do benefit from the people who maintain a minimum subscription and leech the premium channels. It's absolutely correct that Virgin can no longer compete with Sky on their television service, and their reluctance to do so is a matter of public record. Not too long ago, it was even rumored that they were considering throwing in cable TV as a freebie and incentive for people to pick up their internet and phone deals.

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526763)

You can do that feel free, i'll just claim it off the insurance lol. No ill feeling guys I am just saying how it is. Kudelski are the people who roll out the new key change on behalf of virgin, if virgin implements a new keyroll method every time they will again lose alot of money.

BTW: I couldn't find the introduction section, so i could introduce myself.

Hello anyway guys.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526758)

No. I think you will find that in the eyes of the law, they are very different offences, which carry were different penalties, and thus they are not equally wrong. By your logic, stealing cable and killing someone are equally wrong, merely by virtue of being against the law. You can say they're both wrong, which I wouldn't dispute, but they're clearly not equally wrong.

You're not far off there. There's obviously no benefit to them from having people leech off what should have been disconnected services, but as I've repeatedly said, there's no question that Virgin do benefit from the people who maintain a minimum subscription and leech the premium channels. It's absolutely correct that Virgin can no longer compete with Sky on their television service, and their reluctance to do so is a matter of public record. Not too long ago, it was even rumored that they were considering throwing in cable TV as a freebie and incentive for people to pick up their internet and phone deals.

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526769)

I have no respect for hackers who gets cable for free,, number one rule you have to pay at least the minimum subscription to keep the host in business if not they will end up like on digital then you have nothing. I pay my dues, but cant afford to pay £45+ for all the channels thats not worth it.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526716)

They do have evidence. The evidence is from the person stating they are stealing, admitting it is evidence. If I walked into a Police station and said I had stole something, are you saying they wont do anything due tot he fact I could be lying?

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526769)

I have no respect for hackers who gets cable for free,, number one rule you have to pay at least the minimum subscription to keep the host in business if not they will end up like on digital then you have nothing. I pay my dues, but cant afford to pay £45+ for all the channels thats not worth it.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34526780)

And again, you miss my point. Beyond the IP (which can, and probably would, be faked), while we have a statement that *somebody* has admitted to using a cloned modem, we cannot offer any evidence as to who. We do also have the problem that people do sign up to forums and make such stuff as this up, just to look "cool".


They do have better facilities, but won't discuss these with outsiders (for obvious reasons),


Lets not. You know who your next door neighbour is. You know he is doing it, and could give the police these facts. Thus, they could check him out relatively easily. I chose the example I did deliberately because on the forum, we don't know who each other are, and only know what we are told by other people. We have no evidence that what they say is true

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526747)

Im going to smash your car window and hot wire it and borrow it, heck I might not even bring it back, but thats ok because if you can get it for free, why pay?

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526765)

No, your just clearly making something up that I never said.

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526769)

I have no respect for hackers who gets cable for free,, number one rule you have to pay at least the minimum subscription to keep the host in business if not they will end up like on digital then you have nothing. I pay my dues, but cant afford to pay £45+ for all the channels thats not worth it.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526784)

But havent you just answered our questions in this post that yes they do have better facilities to catch people. I dont know how it works, but if you were to say give Virgin the offending post and IP address, can they not work from there with their better facilities.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526791)

If the mods will allow it, I would be interested for someone like yourself to list the various piracy systems available and their functionality. I wouldn't want you to mention any specific brands or how or where to acquire illegal services or equipment, but it might be educational for us to understand exactly what it is we're talking about here, when it comes to chipped boxes, cams, clones, AU, VOD, PPV and so forth.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526791)

Does this count as an admission that you're planning to commit a serious crime? See what I did there? ;)

I'm curious though, why this bitterness towards pirates? Do you take an equally aggressive approach to co-workers, friends and family or even strangers in the street with illegal MP3s on their iPods?

No, I quoted your exact words and just took your illogical statement to its logical extreme to prove how it doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny.

Yes, it is, but that's not what you said. You said they were equally wrong. It's important to make a distinction in the context of what is being discussed here.

A man must have his honour. :)

As I said earlier, I find this subject quite fascinating, and have been reading up on it over the last week or so, though I'm still not entirely clear on a few details. If the mods will allow it, I would be interested for someone like yourself to list the various piracy systems available and their functionality. I wouldn't want you to mention any specific brands or how or where to acquire illegal services or equipment, but it might be educational for us to understand exactly what it is we're talking about here, when it comes to chipped boxes, cams, clones, AU, VOD, PPV and so forth. The impression I've got from reading up on this is that the vast majority of illegal boxes use some kind of software emulation to decode the scrambled channels, and that they have no access to non-linear VOD services. I haven't been able to confirm that there are any boxes around, certainly not in great numbers, that can access non-linear VOD, due to such boxes having to identity themselves to Virgin's servers to initiate a VOD request, though it does seem like certain boxes can scan for active VOD channels, and watch what other people have ordered, though they won't be able to pause and rewind.

I hope this isn't crossing any forum rules, if it can be kept in broad terms?

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526784)

But havent you just answered our questions in this post that yes they do have better facilities to catch people. I dont know how it works, but if you were to say give Virgin the offending post and IP address, can they not work from there with their better facilities.

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34526796)

They still need evidence that someone has done something. A forum post is not evidence.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34526797)

We've made our position very clear on this. We will not allow the discussion of how to 'chip' or 'clone' equipment, or the discussion which would give anyone the know-how to obtain services without paying for them. We're not stupid, we know that if people want to do this then the information is out there which will enable them.

If someone is intent on this sort of thing then I suggest they go to one of the other forums which allow such discussion.

Sometimes people post 'hints' on how to do it and what equipment to use - we will not allow this, neither will we permit "PM me for further details" types of discussion.

We're not out to be little hitlers or anything like that but we have some straightforward forum rules which we expect everyone to abide by.

Yes there is often discussion about illegally downloaded music etc but equally we do not allow discussion of "how and where".

Hope that clarifies things.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526784)

But havent you just answered our questions in this post that yes they do have better facilities to catch people. I dont know how it works, but if you were to say give Virgin the offending post and IP address, can they not work from there with their better facilities.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526791)

Does this count as an admission that you're planning to commit a serious crime? See what I did there? ;)

I'm curious though, why this bitterness towards pirates? Do you take an equally aggressive approach to co-workers, friends and family or even strangers in the street with illegal MP3s on their iPods?

No, I quoted your exact words and just took your illogical statement to its logical extreme to prove how it doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny.

Yes, it is, but that's not what you said. You said they were equally wrong. It's important to make a distinction in the context of what is being discussed here.

A man must have his honour. :)

As I said earlier, I find this subject quite fascinating, and have been reading up on it over the last week or so, though I'm still not entirely clear on a few details. If the mods will allow it, I would be interested for someone like yourself to list the various piracy systems available and their functionality. I wouldn't want you to mention any specific brands or how or where to acquire illegal services or equipment, but it might be educational for us to understand exactly what it is we're talking about here, when it comes to chipped boxes, cams, clones, AU, VOD, PPV and so forth. The impression I've got from reading up on this is that the vast majority of illegal boxes use some kind of software emulation to decode the scrambled channels, and that they have no access to non-linear VOD services. I haven't been able to confirm that there are any boxes around, certainly not in great numbers, that can access non-linear VOD, due to such boxes having to identity themselves to Virgin's servers to initiate a VOD request, though it does seem like certain boxes can scan for active VOD channels, and watch what other people have ordered, though they won't be able to pause and rewind.

I hope this isn't crossing any forum rules, if it can be kept in broad terms?

Originally Posted by Losttheplot (Post 34526744)

Why not? Its an embedded CAM, its Virgins to do with as they please. Sky did it when their encryption was changed.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526747)

Im going to smash your car window and hot wire it and borrow it, heck I might not even bring it back, but thats ok because if you can get it for free, why pay?

Originally Posted by the-cable-guy (Post 34526730)

you clearly dont know how cable works or how to read.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34526799)

So where do we draw the line? Someone comes on here and say they stole a mars from tesco, should we give the supermarket a ring? Someone posts to say they're playing music over the legal volume limit, should we phone their local council and report them?

No, this is VM's issue. They have the money, resources and people to deal with those who steal their product.

Originally Posted by supremus (Post 34526803)

The forums terms and conditions ensure the users' privacy. CF would leave themselves open to legal problems, if they were to hand them over to a 3rd party. Rules like that work both to protect the users and the forum. If Virgin had evidence that CF were turning a blind eye to illegal activity, such as trading, through their forum, they would have a good case for insisting the records be handed over, or if CF were seen to support it, they could even obtain a police warrant to confiscate CF's servers and logs, but discussion of illegal activity is not illegal.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526813)

But then again, this site all though not officially tied to Virgin or NTL, as far as Im aware, have strong links to high up people working for Virgin/NTL and was made for the purpose to help people with the services from these companys. I personally think more should be done, wether thats let Virgin in on the matter or simply ban people for being so foolish to either admit they are stealing or being stupid and trying to look cool, surely this type of discussion that leads from someone stating this is not really whatt he site is all about. But thats what I think.

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526765)

No, your just clearly making something up that I never said. Stealing is stealing, no matter what you steal, it is still wrong.

---------- Post added at 15:47 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------



Wouldnt you lose your no claims bonus? Can I sleep with your wife/GF/sister/mom at the same time? Hey, its free isnt it?

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526765)

No, your just clearly making something up that I never said. Stealing is stealing, no matter what you steal, it is still wrong.

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Wouldnt you lose your no claims bonus? Can I sleep with your wife/GF/sister/mom at the same time? Hey, its free isnt it?

Originally Posted by shawty (Post 34526798)

So please tell me how murdering someone is stealing? I said stealing is stealing, which you clearly took out of context. Stealing anything is equally worng, as stealing is either right or wrong, and we all know which one it is.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34526814)

Very good point. Another way to look at this is CF is taken quite seriously by the media outlets as a source of information of cable-related matters - the fact that Phorm post here is an indication of our reputation.

Imagine what it would do to our credibility if we allowed the discussion of how to obtain services without a subscription. A lot of hard work would go down the drain overnight.

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I've said this before and I'll say it again. If VM needed our help in tracking these people down I'm sure they would have already asked us. But no such approach for information has been made by any company or individual.

Originally Posted by handyman (Post 34526812)

Unfortunately for you he does, and in particular this very system. I cannot believe you are arguing about a system with someone that has worked with it. (and not just any old cable system, he's worked on the one in question).

To quote a line from one of my favourite films/book.



Ohh and after a quick pm from LTP I now know who he used to be on the .com forum and also the team that Frank set up all those years back.

He knows what he is talking about.....

Originally Posted by ATMEGA163 (Post 34526817)

There is a line, m8 and you about to cross that line! If i can borrow you mum, sis, daughter would that be ok with you. ???what do you think. I smash your head into a pulp. don't even go there.