Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yeah you have a media that is used to being given loads of information about police investigations, to the extent that it can hinder someone getting a fair trial, and now they're in a country with sensible laws which prevent the police saying too much, and not wanting to lose column inches, they've set this guy up to extend their coverage without a care for the effect it may have on him.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1796032.ece

The press didn't get what they originally wanted so it seems that they successfully managed to push the story up a level.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Which of course wasted police resources.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

BREAKING NEWS: For more info on how to donate to 'The Madeleine Fund' see: www.findmadeleine.com

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Again ....controversial comment:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You really don't need to put that in spoiler tags. Its an unpleasant thought but we're all grown ups here. :shrug:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

perhaps best not too be too graphic re 'in a ditch' and just say 'dead'?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Fair enough - will not use any more spoilers in this thread.

Cheers Chris T - was just covering my back in case some members don't like the comment...

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:10 ----------

I could say worse...and it may be nearer the truth...

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Remember during the Ipswich killings? The police arrested a suspect, after he was interviewed by The Mirror (Deja Vu, the mirror was involved) the papers put his face all over the front page and he was innocent?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

In many ways I think 'in a ditch' is less graphic. Phrases like that help us to avoid spelling out what we all fear is the case - that it may already be too late for poor Madeline. You see, now I'm talking about it and I'm still not spelling it out.

We have two children, the older of them is four. Mrs T and I are finding it hard to see this on the news in the evening because it makes us think how we would feel were this to happen to our family. It's just a horrible, horrible tragedy and the fact that the police appear to be closing in on suspects, yet without yet finding the little girl alive and well, makes things even worse.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Funny how a week ago there was complaints because I was here questioning why the parents left the child alone and heartless I was being, Now its ok to post that the child may well be dead in a ditch or worse

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I'm not sure the two are comparable. Stating what we fear might have happened is one thing, putting the parents on trial is another. There's a time and a place for everything and I think blame and recrimination should wait until later.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

you wouldnt seeing as iirc you were doing the complaining. Saying she may be dead isnt gonna help find her is it? It was said voicing recriminations wouldnt be helpful. How helpful has this thread been in finding her? it isnt which is what I said ages ago

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think if more people spoke out about the parents irresponsibility in this situation more 'adults' would think twice before they left their kids alone while they were out wining and dining.
It really does **** me off how the media treats the arrested suspect as guilty yet portrays/sees the parents as being inncoent victims in this. Like i say time and time again, I feel sorry for them, but I for one do apportion a large amount of blame on them for their daughter being abducted.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That was exactlly what I was doing right at the start of this thread

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

There are ways of 'helping' other than finding her - such as bearing in mind that people connected to the family could conceivably come across this discussion.

'Helping' them might consist of not adding to their grief by making accusations against the parents.

As I said, I don't think examination of the parents' role is off-limits, I just think it's one of the subjects that can afford to wait until later.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

so its not ok for me to say the parents should not have left them because someone from the family may come here. But its ok for you to say she may be dead or in a ditch when members of the family may come on the forum?

I felt I was being gagged by some of the responses I got from Admin when I voiced my views

---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

I take that back as I was incorrect sorry Chris

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yep, you got it. Except the bit about 'you' and 'me'. I'm talking about what I think is reasonably sensitive and what is not when discussing fresh issues like this, not passing comment on any individual posts.

Sorry but that's just not true. I've taken the trouble to have a quick skim over all of your posts in the entire thread - and all of those by Mick and Paul as well. They certainly made their views known quite forcefully (and I understand why), but I don't see any evidence of you feeling 'gagged'. You have given as good as you got throughout this discussion and nothing any member of the team has said to you in the thread has caused you to stop.

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------

Not a problem. :)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I'd say more people would be upset to read that "she might be in a ditch" as opposed to criticism of the parents role.

When I read the initial "in a ditch" post I just had an image of someone doing that to my own daughter and it upset me (Although Im not saying teh post should not have been allowed). I can understand that you dont want to be insensitive in case some close family of maddie's come across this discussion, but in my opinion the majority of the readers of this thread are not related.

COming across a post criticising the parents role is no different to putting on the TV and seeing someone saying the same thing on the news.

I think that people should not be disuaded from discussing the parents trole in this thread, it might prevent other parents from thinking that its ok to do this as it would never happen to tehir own kid.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Much of forum discussion is about persuasion (except when it's moderating, and nobody has tried to 'moderate' discussion of the parents' culpability so far as I can see). Everyone should feel free to persuade and dissuade each other as they see fit, so far as it doesn't break the rules.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I can't help thinking that if it had been a single mum on benefits who left her kid at home while she went out then there would be a lot more people criticising her.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Probably because people would wonder how someone on benefits can afford to take a holiday.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

My sentiments exactly.

There was a woman on the news sometime last week saying that its wrong to criticise the parents. She cited a few sceanarios of how a toddler could be snatched from a garden, while the parents are inside, or from the park while the parents turned around for a second.
You cannot compare the manner in which Maddie was abducted to a kid being abducted whilst a parent has lost sight of them for seconds. If maddie had been abducted from her bedroom whilst her parents were downstairs, for example, I would not criticise them at all.
But these are affluent people who could have made child care arrangements for example. Leaving your child (in this case 3 children) alone in a house whilst you're in a restaurant is totally irresponsible.

If Maddie hadnt been abducted we wouldn't have even know about two irresponsible and selfish parents who left their kids at home alone without taking any precautions to prevent anything whatsoever happening to them. What if they had fallen down the stairs, what if there was a fire, what if one of the kids woke up crying distressed from a nightmare. There were no adults present whatsoever in a villa/apartment where 3 under 5s were asleep. Now thats disgusting behaviour.

Like Gazzae says, if this had been a single parent she would have been vilified in the press, there would be fingers pointing at her for being stupid, people would be saying her kids should be taken into care because she cant be responsible for them.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

yes indeed, the two remaining children would have been in care by now.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

:tu:Got to say I feel the same way as zinglebarb. Why was it so wrong to suggest last week that the parents were partly to blame, but this week its ok to say she is dead.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree. If they can afford a holiday then they can afford proper child care.



it's ok to suggest she's dead but I think not appropriate to use language like 'in a ditch'.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

How do you go about getting child care in the late evening in a foreign country?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Use the resorts facilities or if they are not available then stay in.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Im sorry but as of late ive had the impression its "Do as we say or else" ive tried to discuss how I feel and have just been blocked

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The resort offered a baby sitting service which they chose not to use :(



2 weeks today since she went missing :(

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Got to agree - very very odd that IMO. A toddler and 2 babies left alone when facilities were available. Even a baby monitor would have given some warning - we used one all the time when our kids were smaller. Can't understand it myself.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

or take a nanny on hol with you.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

its all to do with image and nothing to do with opinion. People want to be seen to be compassionate and just generally good eggs its all front. I bet 99% of peoples first gut reaction was wtf were they doing on there own. I expressed my view I dont care if im liked or not . I wont hide what I think just in case others think bad of me for it

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I would have thought most people's initial reaction would have been more along the lines of ''imagine the personal hell they must be going through'' rather than looking for someone to blame but as you say, it's a matter of opinion.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

When I first saw the video of her playing I cried. I feel for Maddy. But the hell they are going through changes nothing about the event and the message should be broadcast loud and clear and that is dont leave your kids like this.
I still cant get over the facts of this case. 3 children under the age of 4 were left alone in a locked apartment anything can happen this time something did .Its hell but for educated parents they were plain stupid

If this forum has any influence on anyone then it should be used to get the message accross that leaving young children alone is bad. I was fronted with we should concentrate on finding maddy. How many on this forum has gone to help search????? how many have done anything more than buy a ribbon???? how helpful has the member ship been?????????
(except for the one guys whos organisation has added to the reward)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Most people Ive spoken to said their first initial reaction was "wtf were their paretns thinking off leaving them alone"

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

As I said, it's a matter of opinion. Most people I've spoken to are more concerned about what the parents must be going through.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Fortunately most parents go through their lives relatively trouble free and never experience anything like this whether it's losing a child through illness or worse. I'm not an advocate of paranoia but I do think that parents can be a tad blase when it comes to the welfare of their children, sometimes forgetting just how precious they are. Our youngest goes to a special school. Several of his fellow pupils have sadly died in the time he's been there and indeed, we've nearly lost him twice in his relatively short life. This experience has affected us greatly and whilst we realise that we can't look over him 24/7 we're far more aware of possible dangers and situations in which he might be vulnerable. Whilst it's not a recipe for a carefree life, it's what we have to do in order to protect him as best we can. The thing that should come out of this awful situation is that parents in general need to be a bit more aware of the dangers which surround us. This does NOT mean sacrificing all our most enjoyable pursuits and locking our children away but it does mean taking a little more responsibility for those we cherish the most, especially when they're at their most vulnerable.

We all hope this little girl is found safe and well but we must also hope that this event will serve as a warning to others and thereby reduce the likelihood of it happening again.

We all have our fingers crossed for a happy ending to this.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yep, that was my (and my husbands) first reaction too.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think some people are of the opinion that you cant feel for the parents AND also apportion some blame to them. From my point of view both can and should apply.
Also by discussing their irresponsibility it will deter (hopefully) other parents from leaving their kids alone in the same manner.
I for one would be happy that social services make an issue of this when they come back to the UK.
Before any one accuses me of being heartless, if Maddie had fallen down the stairs and broken her legs for example, most people would agree with me.
The fact that she was abducted is a lot more serious/worrying/different than falling down the stairs, but the degree of irresponsibility from the parents has been truly shockingly stupid.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The whole "what were they doing leaving her alone" angle just seems too judgemental to me.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

But its a major contibutor to her being abducted in the circumstances. They have taken no precautions whatsoever regarding the safety of 3 under 4 year olds whether there was a risk of abduction or not.

YOU JUST DO NOT LEAVE UNDER 4s IN AN APARTMENT ALONE WHILE YOU HAVE DINNER 100 YARDS AWAY!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Agreed mo. I feel for them (the parents), I really do. If they find the sicko that's got the girl, I'd gladly volunteer to be locked in a room with him/her for 10 minutes to show them the error of their ways. But to leave 3 under 4's by themselves in a seperate building is inexcusable, and the responsibility (not blame as such) lays with the parents IMO. If they hadn't left the kiddies alone, it wouldn't have happened, end of. Why didn't they just pop the kids in some strollers and take them to dinner with them? :erm: :confused:

---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

Russ, you're a father. Would you leave Alyssya (sorry if that's incorrect sp?!) by herself for that long. Would you leave her in your house just while you popped to the shops for half an hour? As a stepmother to three, the youngest being 8 this year, I wouldn't do it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I certainly am not judging them. After all, regardless of whether they made a mistake or not, they are being punished enough without me judging them for it.

But, I would also like to say that while I am not a father, some of my friends and family are, and I am pretty sure that no one I know would leave their youg kids in a strange hotel room on their own for 30 minutes.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I'm not disputing that leaving a child unattended like that is foolish!

However if I was ever careless enough to do something like that, I'd imagine being constantly told I was stupid would probably push me over the edge. As is, I imagine the parents' state of mind to be extremely fragile. If we are going to play the blame game, let's at least wait until we've had an outcome, good or bad.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I didn't think you were :)

They weren't careless Russ. They made a choice. A stupid one. And whilst I agree with your most of your post, I for one am not 'blaming' anyone. But it's difficult not to think that if they hadn't made such a monumentally stupid selfish decision (which it was) to leave their children by themselves, it wouldn't have happened. And that's not 'judging' either. It kind of fact. IMO anyway.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

No you haven't been blocked at all, what was said when this thread kicked off, was that IMO, it was certainly out of order (This is an expression of my view as a person, not an ADMIN and that is the total difference here) that some people were too quick be judge, jury and the executioner, without actually knowing all the facts at the time. Some people were just reacting on a 'whim' to the media reports.

A lot of blame, rather than compassion and much needed sensitivity, was and still is, it seems, being put on Maddies parents. Talk about kicking someone, when they are already down. :rolleyes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

agree, i hope parents face PROSECUTION it is THERE FAULT this little girl was abducted !

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I can understand that when its put like "if they hadnt left MAddie alone she would not have been snatched" it does sound like people are apportioning total blame on this for the parents.
I dont blame the parents for Maddie being snatched, it wasnt their fault that someone decides to snatch their kid. I do blame them for putting Maddie (and their other kids) in a position which allowed this to happen. There is a subtle difference, but a difference nevertheless.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

would you leave your 4yo kid ALONE when you went OUT FOR DINNER ? probly not (well i bloody hope not) the parents deserve all the blaim they get, i realy hope they are prosecuted (i bet portugese law will have them for neglect or sumthing similar, wich they FULLY deserve)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

*dons flame-proof jacket*

I don't think there is a person here who's first thought wasn't to feel for the parents, but I think its a natural reaction after the initial OMG-reaction, to think, "how could this happen?" Its not judgemental, its curiousity.

The grandmother who lost her grandchild because of her negligence of owning a dangerous dog, and failing to secure it was shown absolutely no compassion by the public or the law. The fact she lost her grandchild did nothing to engender sympathy. The question of whether Madeleine lost her life due to her parents' own negligence will have to be answered eventually. As adults we all, Maddy's parents included, have to be held accountable for our mistakes, regardless of whether they are grieving or not.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

TBH Mick, it didn't come across that way.


http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34295071-post39.html

Nothing there about that being your personal opinion. I find it quite easy to see how that could be interpreted as an order or admin decision.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

:tu:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I don't think the media were acting on a whim when they reported the circumstances in which Maddie was abducted. It was clear from day 1 that whe was snatched whilst being in an apartment alone, while her parents were out wining and dining. Those are the facts presented on day 1 and if anything has changed since its the fact that they might have not been checking up on her every 30 mins as originally reported, but in fact the gaps were much further apart.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Kindly stop shouting at me please, I am not DEAF.

Stop throwing the same old tedious and highly insensitive argument across about what I or others would do in similar circumstances, we know what we wouldn't do but its too late to start going over what you or I would do. In the current climate, its very much irrelevant. Maddie is missing, the parents are going through hell and no they certainly do not deserve this, what a ridiculous and outright stupid thing to say. :dozey:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Why is it Mick? Do you think this would've happened if they hadn't left the children alone?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If?, if and more if's - its irrelevant. - There is no point discussing, if, why and when, it is too late.

We can all go through life talking about how something could of been different, if we had done something different. We cannot alter the past, as much as we want to, so its irrelevant in the current climate. Maddie needs to be found and I hope she is soon. But all this blaming the parents, 'Send them to jail', is just plain wrong.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If Maddie had not been abducted but had fallen down some stairs and broke her leg, would you feel the same?

I also disagree with what you say about things being irrelevant. It is totally relevant to her being abducted. If she was not alone it is very very likely that she would not have been abducted.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Don't answer my question then. :rolleyes:

It's not 'ridiculous' or 'stupid' to have an opinion on the events that led to Madeleines abduction.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I cant believe that people are saying its wrong to blame the parents for anything because MAddie has been abducted. That we are being insenstitive etc etc.
To say there is no point discussing it now that its happened is wrong too, in my opinion. If you sweep this all under the carpet more parents will feel its ok to act in the same manner. I think people have a duty to express the irresponsibility displayed by these parents.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That post was way before the full debate swang into full action, I had entered the thread appalled at some people's insensitive attitudes and over the top judgemental views, so I had said that in the beginning but as the course of the thread went on, I had entered the debate (so couldn't really start gagging anyone) and once I had entered the debate, noone really took any notice of my initial post anyway.

There is no bloody point in answering your question and kindly don't take that tone with me.

Yes they most certainly are, when the opinions and views from some are over judgemental and insensitive.

Oh look, another couple of *if this, if that*. Irrelevant!

Too late to start discussing *If* she was not alone.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

To be blunt and subtle as a brick...(sorry) - I doubt she'll be given up by the person /s who have her (if they still do).

Her face has been all over the papers, TV and media in general in the UK, Protugal, Europe and possibly around the world. This has the potential for somebody to recognise her and get her back if she where seen in public.

As I said before - I think it's only a matter of time before we hear the worst news possible. Sorry - that's what I think.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

How is anyone criticising parents who leave 3 under 4s alone in an apartment being over judgemental.

Frankly I am sick and tired of people saying that its wrong to criticise the parents. I've seen people on the news saying that Maddie could have been snatched from a garden while her parents were 5 feet away. I'm sick and tired of peopel saying that you could leave your kid in the bath alone for 2 mins and they could end up drowned, and this could have happened to anyone.

The FACT is that Maddie and her brothers were left alone in an aprtment at night. The FACTs are that these kids are under 5 years old. The FACTs are that their parents were enjoying a meal some 50 or so yards away. What is not established as a FACT is how long they were checking up on their kids. Some reports say 30 mins, a police witness report, I think, says 1 hour.

The FACT is that Maddie got snatched from a house where she and her brothers were alone in.

And you know what, I don't care how insensitive I am in saying it, but Maddies parents do have to take a lot of blame for leaving their children in such a vunreble position.

---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

Ok, then I will put it like this... She was not alone, she was snatched, and in my opinion her parents are to blame for her being alone. Insensitive, maybe, FACT, definately.

Does it serve them right? NO

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You're sick and tired. I am sick and tired, so what gives?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Practice what you preach then and stop being so ruddy judgemental and oversensitive of other peoples opinions!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Maybe everyone should take some lemsip and go to bed?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yeah - chill out people....

I feel your frustration! :Yikes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

did i say they deserved it ? u think i am glad that she has been taken ? a 4 year old girl.. what i said they deserve is prosecution, to be honest it has been over 2 weeks now, i think she is probably dead :( altho it is a little early to give up when this is not so much in the public eye, the parents should be brought before a judge

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Its not often I agree with you, but in this case I do. The parents do deserve to be prosecuted, wether they will or wont is something else. The fact that their daughter might be dead should not excuse them for their stupidity in the first place.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

your acting like they know what we are saying . They have to much on there mind to give a toss what anyone here thinks of them. Who is here that needs us to be sensitive too? They aint here so ill have to have bloody long legs to kick them

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

may I point out the opening line of this post yes its not in bold but it clearly says

"The arguments about whose to blame will stop right now. " if that was a personal view why sound like a moderater???

If your not in the role of admin you cant tell us what to do can you?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I dont think zingle was the only one thinking that this was a moderator decision. I for one thought it was a moderator decision, rather than a personal view.

Anyway like a few have mentioned I think we all need to chill out and maybe just agree to disagree in our views as to whether the parents are irresponsible or not and whther its right to blame them or not etc etc.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Isn't having lost their daughter punishment enough?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Not for all the perfect parents on this forum it seems.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

This forum just gets worse, no one can read past posts and understand the seperate context of each post written.

Is a good example of a response that is totally stupid, It a pointless attack on those with a view that is valid. The mods post a warning to cool things down yet you get comments like above to add fuel to the fire.

Some example you set.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I see yet again no one seems to take any proper notice of what I say. The parents are not reading this forum people voicing there opinions is not going to punish anyone. My motives as ive pointed out in this thread often is to point out the stupidity of the act of leaving infants alone in a locked building its just wrong wrong wrong. And drumming this point into peoples heads could stop this happening again or at the least maybe help protect others. Is this point wasted here or not cuz a hell of a lot of you are totally missing it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Have you made any posts calling for them to be punished further?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I dont think ive broken any terms and conditions in this thread. At points ive disagreed with persons who happen to be admin that isnt against the t&c is it? so the worse wouldnt be directed at me would it?

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:03 ----------

I dont recall I might have but I have pointed out british law and made posts trying to back my point up that its wrong but as I say I dont think ive broken any rules

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I don't recall you suggesting they should be punished either, which is why I asked, because you responded to my comment in a way as if I was suggesting you personally had called for them to face criminal charges.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

No sorry misunderstanding :)

I feel ive expressed my view in a balanced way and ive outlinded my reasons for why im expressing my view and I feel ive been no less compassionate than anyone else only im voicing my view to maybe stop this happening again instead of thinking poor parents lets not upset them (who will prob never come here) And I have also took umbrage to how ive been responded to with aggression from some who should lead by example . Im not happy at all as you can see. I know I dont matter and the team do a good job but im (insert obvious word) off

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I'm on of the posters who have said that they should have some blame apportioned to them for leaving their kids in the manner in which they did. I have also pointed out that it is likely that there could have been other circumstances where parents would be punished or have their kids taken into care if something less fortunate had happened to their children whilst they had left them alone.
I don't think any punishment they receive will be worse than that of losing a daughter, but I do feel that there is a case of negligence to answer for. We could always ask, "Did Maddie 'deserve' to be left alone in a room all alone?" It's quite clear that this has made it easier for her to be abducted.

No one is perfect, and I for one am far from a perfect parent. The think is you do not have to be perfect to see how stupid and irresponsible it is to leave a 3 year old alone in a house without any adult supervision.

Also I agree with another poster that thats a pretty stupid comment to make.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

My (very gentle) warning wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Noone has broken any T&Cs as such, which is why no action was taken. However, as I quoted, it wasn't just me who noticed tempers were rising, so I just wanted everyone to take a deep breath, calm down, so the thread doesn't spiral out of control like many others have done before it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think this case has shown people that no matter what you think is safe, there are dangers everywhere and children should not be left alone when they are too young to look after themselves.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I do not know anyone personally that would think leaving 3 very young children alone in a locked building is safe in the first place. What this case shows me is even educated people can act totally out of selfishness and because of that be very very very irresponsible indeed

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That's not it though. Its not about being a perfect parent. Its about being an adult.

Part of being an adult is facing up to your responsibilities and consequences of your actions. Everyone has to face their responsibilities. Its not just a witchhunt from so-called armchair perfect parents.

The grandmother who killed her grandchild through her own negligence has to face her actions, regardless of the fact she is greiving and has it on her conscience that she is responsible for the death of her grandchild. We can't let everyone free from responsibility because they are grieving. With circumstances like this though, I don't think there will ever be a good time to approach this though, but it will have to be approached sooner or later.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

:tu: :clap: just approach it why namby pamby around

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Thats exactly how I feel. Well put.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

also agree very well said

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Agree totally Gavin !! Some people seem to be more aware of their rights than their responsibilities. I think a much harsher view would've prevailed in the media had the child in question been from a single parent family for example. In fact had this been the case I feel the whole matter would very sadly be so much chip paper by now.

It reminds me of the Louise Woodward case some years back when IIRC the parents concerned were 2 very well educated medical professionals who felt it was a good idea to enturst their 8 month old child's welfare (solely for very long periods IIRC) to an untrained teenage au-pair. They had the wherewithal to employ a properly trained nanny but chose not to do so and must still be very much regretting that decision.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

which is why we have all these yobs hanging around street corners. lack of parental responsibility.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well that's very true and HMG seems hell bent on us all working all the time with kids in the care of others as opposed to the old fashioned notion of a parent at home. It seems that having children and actually bringing them up (quite probably having to sacrifice certain things in order to do so) just isn't considered acceptable anymore.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

For the first time in a while this forum is trying to have a serious discussion about a current news story and some people here just don't seem to want it. I off to start a thread about how much I am in love with Murdoch/Branson.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I am not claiming to be a perfect parent and would not believe anyone here who claimed to be one. We have all, I am sure, taken a deep breath after something has happened that could have had a bad outcome. What has happened to Maddie and her parents is a lesson to us all to not be complacent.

I do not condone the actions of these parents. However, as I see it, Maddie was targeted by her abductor/s. What her parents did that night was give these monsters a window of opportunity. The consequences of leaving their 3 small children with no supervision is a decision they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Had she not been left alone that night I believe that her abductor/s would have just taken her at another time. If you can agree that she may have been targeted, and if the window of opportunity had been a few moments distraction, say on the beach, or in a crowded shop, would you still be putting the parents in the pillory whilst their child was missing? If it had happened in that way to you how would you feel if, at this stage, you were continually criticised by complete strangers who had just read about it in a newspaper or in a news broadcast?

Yes they may well have to face some form of official censure or prosecution in the future but the time is not now.

Add:
I don’t believe anyone on this thread feels that what the McCann’s did was right, arguing about the wording and timing of posts isn’t achieving anything.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

notice how the softie softie approachers have less to say when the realists hit home?????

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

the wishy washy im a nice person approach is acheiving even less the harsh lifes a bitch method might save lives

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

it's about priorities - you are 2 parents and your priority is

a)to go out for a meal and leave your kids locked in a hotel room - sleeping in the same bed. so no-one is there if there is a fire and also the risk of one kid smothering the other while asleep.

or

b)face up to being a responsible parent.


I accept that there are excuses for other people not to be always there for their kids - e.g. single parents - but when both of you are together and happily married you have no excuse to cut corners in your parental responsibilities.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

But continually saying the same thing over and over again makes people stop listening. Why do you feel the need to attack all the time? I know that life can stink at times, You don't know me or what I've had to live through, I just don't need to be aggressive all the time.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If she hasd been targetted and snatched, say at teh beach while her parents had been looking the other way, I would not have made a lot of the posts I've contributed to on this thread.

The facts are that targetted or not, she was left in an apartment alone. This is disgraceful, stupid, selfish and irresponsible behaviour, whether she was abducted or not. If Maddie hadn't been snatched and it was reported that a couple of holiday makers had left their kids in similar circumstances, my opinions of the parents behaviour would be the same even if nothing had happened to them. Its not the behavious I expect from responsible adults.

They had no excuses for doing this, I believe they are affluent people, and I do not think that they would have had a financial problem paying for a baby sitter.

I have a 2 and a half year old daughter. When I go on holiday she comes with us for dinner. And most of the time we have to have dinner by 7ish coause she wants to be in bed before 9. Because she's with us there are a lot of things me and my wife cant do if we had been holidaying alone. We can't go to restaurants alone, we cant stay out all night, we cant go for romantic beach walks by moonlight. But you know what, thats life and that the responsibility and sacrifices that goes with being a parent. No Im not perfect, but I can honestly say hand heart, that I would never leave my child alone in that manner.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, I wouldnt wish a child being abducted on anyone. The facts are though that Maddie wasn't snatched from the beach or the park, but from a house where she was left alone with 2 other under 5s. I think a lot of the posters on this thread are getting worked up about the fact that they (Maddies parents) neglected their duties and responsibilities as parents, even if it was just for this one occassion.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Was it really a locked building? The way I have heard it described by someone who has been there is, that all the apartments were connected and closed of, with a large manned reception area just along the corridor, offering a family friendly service, they didn't hear anything, perhaps if the parents were in the next room they wouldn't have heard anything either, that said if the parents were there they'd at least have had a chance to stop him, that's why I don't think anything anyone say's here is going to upset the parents or anyone associated with them, they will beat themselves up till the day they die far better than any here could manage

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Cuz few have noted what im really saying.
---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ----------


so there doors were not locked then? so they left 3 unattended children in an unlocked building? thats even worse !!!!!!!!!

my views could stop it happening again white washing it will acheive nothing. If my views are wrong please tell me anyone admin mods anyone tell me im wrong go on

Fact Maddie could be dead could be sold could be in the hands of paedophiles and the opportunity arouse for this purely because she was left unattended with two 2 year old while the parents went and had dinner fact fact fact

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Saaf_laandon_moAnd who is arguing with them. One of my points is that we are all saying the same thing! Repeatedly.I also stand by:- Yes and I was one who gave you a rep, but do you want each and everyone of us to acknowledge your point each time you repeat it.:D