Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

:rofl: :rofl:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Order 20Mb broadband, for yet more money. Just make sure you don't USE it.

You can argue the intricacies of what "unlimited downloads" means to you, or what it should mean to anyone else.. if shaping grates, then it grates. It's grating with me, and I doubt very much that I'm in the top 5% of downloaders. That's not the point. It grates, so I have two choices. Stay and despise VM, or leave and be glad.

Virgin have looked at the marketplace and seen that there's nowhere else for people to go to avoid shaping, and so they know that the move will be comparatively uncontested.

The fact that I have no alternatives, if I want to avoid traffic shaping, will not make me any more happy about being ass-raped by VM.

This is why I've ordered two BT lines today. I'll be getting BB on both. I'm ordering Sky, and I will save money every month. I will be joining an ISP that traffic shapes, but I will be stepping on to a rug that has been placed, rather than one that is about to be pulled from under me, and that gives me more satisfaction than to stay.

Oh, and I'll be able to watch Star Trek TNG and Lost, too. Yesterday, I supported VM's case against Sky. Tomorrow I won't care. This just keeps getting better.

Am I sending a message to VM? Not really. I'm leaving VM because I'm just not willing to pay a whole £50/month for *limited* BB. Only VM customers pay that much for *limited* broadband. There are MUCH cheaper *limited* services available.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

his meaning is perfectly clear, you pay to get X amount of traffic on the 2Mbit contract in the given time, you expect to get near that total contracted speed/traffic without being limited so you can use its full potential.

want more traffic in the same timeframe, pay for the 4Mbit contract and get twice as much traffic, want even more pay the top tier and get even more with the economy of scale, all these are unlimited upto the contracted payed for speed, everyone understands this.

if you want more per hour at primetime,pay the higher price and get it or not if the traffic shaping is in place and active.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

At the end of the day taking into account, all said above, DONT FORGET WE PAY A PREMIUM PRICE ON VIRGIN MEDIA FOR BROADBAND £25.00 FOR 4MEG ETC, you expect a premium service, I would not be happy paying £35.00 per month for ten meg, if I only got 5 meg from 4 till midnight, You do not pay those prices for browsing, sky and other service providers are starting to look attractive you may as well pay 17.99 for 4 meg if it is capped.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

do we really, as ive just pointed out its meaning is incorrect

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So virgin media cap us, but reduce our price to £17.99 for 4meg and so on, we have lost enough already with the sky channels.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I've just written to the HMRC, asking for a refund for some of my Road Tax; I was on a motorway yesterday, and the posted speed limit was 70mph, but due to the traffic congestion, I could only do 30mph. This is the third time this has happened this month, and I am not happy about it - I have checked the sign, and it definitely doesn't say "up to 70mph". I blame those big lorries and 4x4's towing caravans - taking up all the roadwidth, slowing everyone else down.

And another thing - last week I caught the GNER 225 High Speed Train to London - it only travelled at an average of 160kph, even though it says in big letters on the train "225"; It doesn't say "up to 225kph"! Would they give me a refund? Would they b*gg*ry!




;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

thanks for that, i may join you and start a campaign ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Yep. and that their using of the word is incorrect.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

ok fair enough but everybodies and every organisations use of the word is incorrect, its dictionary meaning is incorrect so...

i correct my previous statement, just found this on dictionary.com

"Having or seeming to have no boundaries;"

interesting

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

The 'up to' term used on ADSL services is meant to say that you can have up to the maximum speed they do for the price you are paying. but depending on conditions of your line and other factors, you may get less. Not for Virgins meaning of the word that you can have the maximum speed they do for the price you are paying, but for the maximum speed they 'want' to give you regardless of what speed you are paying for, and nothing to do with conditions of your line and other factors.
It is intentionally restricted, they have changed the meaning of what 'up to' means across the board of ISPs. another word that they have re-written for their own benefit and purposes.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So - just to clear up my confusion; that's your definition of what their definition is? :confused:

Have you confirmed that with VM and any network technicians, or have you just made up your definition of their definition? ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Ask them in the support groups how they can get away with only giving you 5Mb instead of 20Mb. and when they throw the term 'up to' in your face, duck :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So, to ask my question again in the vain hope of getting a non-cryptic answer, have you asked any network techs?


And don't call me duck........ ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Not me personally no. and why does it have to be a network tech? :D

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

How is that a contradiction in terms ??

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Because when asking questions about networks (latency, congestion, broadcasts, UBR congestion, traffic management, Quality of Service, resilience, bandwidth availability, etc, etc), I would have thought that network techs might have a more "informed" (actually know what they are talking about) view. ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

take my word for it war,network techs are no more privy to these shananigans than anybody else,we had a brief about P2P traffic shaping ages ago but turns out they hadnt even been told. (of course this could just be the guys in my area.bolton/bury/rochdale.so i dont speak for all of them) hopefully,as you say,there may be someone can shed more light,whether it be networks/platforms or even management (ha ha) :D

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

What meaning is incorrect in your opinion?
Is it the meaning of the word " unlimited " in the english dictionary? or the meaning of the word " unlmited " as I would interpret it to mean? I look in the dictionary and see the phrase " without restriction " when I look up " unlimited "
So is it that for the past god knows how many years, the word " unlimited " has been wrong in it's meaning? or have vm added a new word to the english dictionary ?
vm really do need to clarify what they mean if you are correct, all that money they have spent on an advertising campaign has gone to waste otherwise.

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------


UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS!

Take the word " unlimited " and look up the meaning.
I will help you out, " without restriction "
So it could say " DOWNLOADS WITHOUT RESTRICTION " :erm:

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 ----------


Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes vm are in the wrong!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Thats the worst analogy I've seen related to this issue, its not even relevant. Traffic congestion is not caused by the road providers. You also have other options for routes to take. Virgin Media have imposed these limitations to benefit themselves by spiting its customers. I refuse to pay for 10MB broadband when most of the time I will be on 5MB, might as well just pay for 4MB and be done with.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

It wasn't an analogy. it was merely a statement about the use of the word 'up to' and it's meaning.
Virgin have had to throttle customers at peak times because of the congestion and are using the term 'up to' as the reason why they can.

As things are. it would seem that you would be.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

unless your on the VIP pack where if you calculate full tv package second box V+ all in call plan and "upto" 20 meg you can consider the net package as free ;)

Some things in life are bad they can really make you mad others make you wanna swear and curse.When your chewing on lifes gristle dont grumble give a whistle and this'll help things turn out for the best,and always look on the bright side of life ;)

Just been informed by a valued member(insert sarcastic tone here please) that this is a pointless wasted post oh well may as well join the other 200 + of the same ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I was informed by a user earlier that my post was yet another disrespectful post. disrespectful to who I don't know. <removed>

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I have only this week joined the 10 meg group and yes I am a little dissapointed about the capping as it effects me, my home times are between the hours of capping and it makes browsing during these time terrible and not even worth trying to download any files.

But for some selfish few who do not give a damn for others we all have to suffer.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

the selfish (or clever?) few who are geting the MOST out of our UNLIMITED service ?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I'm informing both of you to stop acting like 5 year olds - I'm sick of seeing you bicker at each other. Keep it up and I'll suspend both of you. End of.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Sorry Paul. I have added him to my ignore list now too.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Spot on post there!

I love the way that certain posters on this thread totally ignored it. ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I suggest you read your Highway code where it clearly states that 70 MPH and any other speed limt refers to a MAXIMUM and not a constant :D

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Would that be the Highway Agencies Acceptable Use Policy? Couldn't find it on the traffic signs. They must have been trying to make it difficult to find.....:D

I refer you to the VM (and other ISP's) advertising, where it says "up to"; which was the point I was trying to make....... ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

That's OK then, My connection is currently running at 0.7Mbps (and I'm just 100 yards away from the local green box) so I guess that's upto the 10Mbps which I'm paying for and acceptable?

D'oh ! Stupid me for complaining eh.

UpTo is not a get out of jail card for them.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

cable does not mater how far u r from the green box, but that speed is pathetic, surely there is something wrong ?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Thats certainly not acceptable, hopefully some nice kind VM employee may offer help. just be nice tho in your posts ;)
Peace brother.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

That's all for another thread (Stoke On Trent one) but someone has already offered to look into this for me for which I'm grateful as it's dragged on for 3 weeks

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Sorry to hear that - no, I don't think it is acceptable for you (or anyone else). Keep badgering VM until they fix it (or move ISP if they don't). (just read the answer above).

Have you thought of downgrading to 4mb? - it appears more stable.

Good luck.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

it does matter in regards to your return path levels,i.e. what power level your modem is locking on at.;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

its an interesting point, with VM currently sending out lots of VM255's in the post rather than sending a man in the van and fitting it as per the company 3 week? instruction course in the porta cabin's, do Vm have a way to check and alter the levels remotely and do they do this assumed check as a standard practice?, if not then it could remain that way until the tech gets sent out at some point in the future if ever,yes?.

is this VM cost saving perhaps causeing yet more problems and introducing that dreaded noise you mentioned even with the pre-made cable kits?.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Shock Horror :Yikes::Yikes:...a bit like VM's speeds you mean...which also refer to a maximum and not a constant:D

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Morning everyone,
I am seething here. I have just had a call from a VM rep who is clearly responding to my complaints to either advertsing standards or ISP association re the latest policy of VM on cutting back users to a lower service. Why seething? Because she insists that there is nothing to complain about and that this new policy is a result of a survey, and, it only affects 5% of heavy internet users. I told her frankly what i think of the policy, suggested that whatever she says it affects to a reduced service therefore VM can't possibly say it's unlimited etc, etc. I also stated that in this day and age, especially with 20mb coming onstream a 3gig per day is outrageously low given internet media etc. However I got no where, just the old mantra from her. I suggested that she visits this group. Whatever I argued she turned it around. I might have well argued with my cat! I put the phone down after 5 minutes on the basis that she knew my view, heard my outrage and, although i would genuinely be sorry to have to do it, go elsewhere it this persists. :mad: :mad:

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

so seething I cant even compose a paragraph... should read "I told her frankly what I think of the policy, suggested that whatever she says it AMOUNTS to a reduced service therefore VM can't possibly say it's unlimited etc, etc. I also stated that in this day and age, especially with 20mb coming onstream a 3gig per day is outrageously low

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

And have you seen Virgin's advertising? They advertise unlimited downloads - just because there is a speed limit doesn't stop you downloading data :confused::confused:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Oh Please, this is so pointless! Sure i can download at 1.5mb as i did last week after I hit 300mb download... I think i would rather pay £12 or something for that speed rather than £25! Family of four here. We hit the limit very easily. I just cannot believe peoples reasoning in these groups.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

OK the limits are quite low - granted, but I don't get this about reporting them to the ASA or OFCOM or the Police for mis-advertising a product when they haven't. They have advertised Unlimited Downloads at speeds of up to 2/4/20meg. They haven't said unlimited speed now have they??

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

This always happens. I've lost count of the amount of times someone has accused Both Virgin Media and NTL/Telewest of mis selling their products and then said they will report them to the ASA/Ofcom/whoever.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

wow 17 pages :Yikes:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Haha. The next one will be an advert with the words "including a free cap for all new sign ups" and at the side of that will be a nice picture of a virgin media baseball cap carry the virgin media logo and the slogan "helping you shape your media". :D

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Actually my connection is all for me, I do not pay for a Dedi but I did sign up years ago for unlimited use.

Your one of the users who does not have the sense to know why they are now shaping, the network is a joke, it has been bad for over 6months now for me and lots of others here, they cant supply a stable 10meg to all users nevermind 20meg because they have oversubsribed the UBR's in many areas.
I would rather they fixed the netowrk and keep us on 10meg.

If you are happy to be conned then your the mug not me.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

The problem with your argument is that every other ISP uses the "upto" term in advertising because they might not be able to provide it due to the nature of the service where as VM are using it as a way to rip you off.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

The UPTO has always been the case because they cannot say you will get 10meg or 20meg from every source esp outside there own network, if they did some n00bs would call up faults because they are getting 1meg under there full spec from ASIA to UK lol.
This is not the same as the current shaping where as before we did not have any penalty of speed or amount, if you phoned up last year on 10meg saying you had 5meg all the time it would have been classed as a fault, where as 9.5meg would not be.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I hate the throttling, i have had it for a long while now and i havent received the upgrade as yet. the whole basis of faster BB is to get content quicker but if its going to be throttled at key times its contradictory. They should state it on there posters, "Britians fastest Broadband for about an hour". What i will say is that even though i dont agree with throttling, its still better than anything else that is currently available. So everyone will have to suck it up. Its defies beleif that people think its acceptable for companys to do this when they advertise unlimited 20mb or whatever speed. I would rather have my 10mb connection (when it was not throttled) than 20mb and throttled after 3gb. 20mb unlimited should just meen that, if the company cant handle it dont offer it then people wont be so dissapointed.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

OK I LIKE TO CLEAR THIS THING WITH "UP TO"

lets just say that ur on the 4mb service, that means u should get 512KBytes PER second download.

but this is not the case, its nver the case, all depends the who u download from, etc etc, including the noise on the line.

thats is y that term is used. HOWEVER ITS NOT A JUSTIFICATION TO USE THAT "UP TO" TERM TO THROTTLE SPEED INTENTIONALLY.

SO ALL U PPL WHO KEEPS SAYING OH, THEY SAY "UP TO" PLZ GET UR FACTS STRIGHT.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

ohh yea frogot to add this:

if VM have nothink to worry about, then y did thye call me back 3 times after i sent a compaline to ISPA.

its a funny think, coz 4 some reason they offer me £32.50 reducation on my service.

lol i keep telling them i dont care about the money, but i dont want limit on my BW.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:12 ----------

no of course not unlimited speed, WHAT U talking about lol

the limit on speed are clear, 2mb, 4mb or 10mb?

so what the confusion there.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Perhaps you can explain that one to the chap who was pulled over by a uniform for doing less than 30mph in a 30 area, he was cautioned.:erm:

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------



Here we go again, how many times does it need explaining the word " unlimited " ?
You said " unlimited downloads " ok, lets take the last word first, " downloads " I gather that we all know what that word means?
Good, lets put that word to one side for a moment, the other word " unlimited " means " without restriction, or unrestricted " now take the second word " unrestricted " and add it to " downloads " and what do we get?
We all know in the non vm world atleast :erm:
Len, the person who called you was clearly a " blocker " they are paid a lot of money these people, I would want paying a lot to hide my shame behind the invisibility of a telephone.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Or even the size of the downloads from iTunes if you start downloading episodes of LOST etc onto your iTunes/appleTV.

---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Following on from this and other thread around network speeds (the Comcast trials DOCSIS3 etc). I now realise that the Cablevision network I use over here is shaped.
All I can say is what are you all getting upset about. From my desktop in the US I get a great connection 24/7, it might be a little slower from some sites in the evening, but I recently posted some speed tests at 7.30pm at night showing 13.7/1.7 for a 15/2 connection.
Shaping is necessary and if you think about the fact that many of us also shape our internal networks by putting using the QOS functions on our routers to say prioritise VOIP packets over IP packets.
Corporate networks also do this, it is a fact of life that some traffic is more important / time sensitive than others and should be managed accordingly. It is in every other aspect of life (priority mail / courier, vs 2nd class post), vehicles with blue lights vs the rest of us. Flying vs Driving.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

some very good comparisons regarding sharing across available capacity & peak demand, there, thanks :tu:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

The problem i have with it is because they claimed the network is suffering from people downloading too much and part of their solution is to increase the highest package speed by 100% for a nominal fee of £2/4$ and then implement traffic shaping which (in my opinion) is affecting the lower tiers more.

I think it's basically a poor attempt to nudge everyone onto a higher package that they dont need. also the traffic shaping we have isn't merely prioritising certain types of traffic it is a solid 50% reduction in speed once you go over an extremely low, set amount of bandwidth between 4pm and 12am.

Surely the solution to congestion on the network isn't to offer higher speeds? or are they relying on people to upgrade out of frustration to something they previously didn't need?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I couldn't agree more! and now it's coming to light that a lot of people are experiencing the throttling activating without going anywhere near the limit.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

It is interesting that VM have some tool that shapes, yet do not have any functionality to enable the end recipient of that shaping to review it, instead they suggest DUMeter which on a networked (CM connected to Router) connection is very hard to implement.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

after all it may be your friend cloned CM/MAC address.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

You are never guaranteed to get a constant 2/4/20mpbs link. There are too many factors in that - servers you download from, network noise, traffic, etc etc, need I go on? And can you tell me what that has to do with Throttling? Up To advertising does not mean that they can throttle your speed intentionally, they need to throttle to stop people like you from maxing out your line and ruining everyone else on your UBR's broadband link. Yes, VM do have the technology to offer 20mb broadband, but the network will fail if all the 20mb users were maxing out thier line all the time.

As an example, everyone has a kettle right? If everyone in the country turned their kettle on at the same time there would be a surge at the power stations and the national grid probably wouldn't be able to cope. I think, rather than you telling the literate public to "GET UR FACTS STRIGHT" I think you should go and reconsider everything you've said. I can't take serious advice from someone who spells "nothing" with a K.

The only viable reason I can see that you want your broadband connection seperate from the STM implementation is that you can go and leech more porn and illegal downloads than anyone else. Grow up.

Oh, and its THING with a G, not somthink. No wonder you have bad reps!

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

How exactly? There has always been a FUP/AUP in place, just that the people who think this is an outrage have never read their contract, thats all...

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

First, can I say to anyone who is using txt speak in your posts, please don't. It makes them harder to read. You have a full size keyboard, and are not limited to 160 characters (small keypad and 160 character SMS limit are the reasons Txt spk was invented), so use normal English.


But, you are already unlimited, but subject to a speed limit (what's 20 meg if not a speed limit?). Shaping just lowers that limit temporarily.

I'm not defending Virgin Media as I personally would rather they had plowed that 30 million they gave to some of their board back into the network (surely *that* would have paid for a few more UBRs if nothing else).

---------- Post added at 10:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

True. When I signed up for NTL broadband in 2000, there was already a clause in the AUP that enabled them to take action against what they termed Heavy downloaders.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Look at that! Backed up by a mod!! :D:)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Isn't the whole point of broadband the speed? that is what all of them aim their marketing at. download at supersonic speeds! I think they've lost the plot now because they don't want you to have the speed. :confused:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Yes, broadband is about being an always on connection which is faster than dial up. On a 20meg shaped to 5 meg connection you will still be 100x faster than dial up!? and 2 1/4 mb faster than the UK average!

Anyway, they do want us to have the speed, evidently, otherwise they wouldnt provide it. What they don't want, however is 95% of their customer base having slow connections down to the 5% of idiots who max out thier connections 24/7 ruining everyone elses online experience.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Well as long as it is still faster than dial up and others. then I suppose that is all that matters!

Provide it in figures? how can they be providing it when they are reducing everyones speed?

We could believe that before. but when you find out that they have no money to upgrade the infastructure. you have to think that is the real reason. :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Don't be sarcastic mate, not a good tone there.

How are they reducing everyones speed? Mine certainly hasn't gone down, as with many friends and relatives with VM. I think you'll find that not every VM customer has registered on these forums... ;)



And are you suprised? When ever VM decide to do something that will benefit the network, all you hear is "crap I goin 2 Sky coz deyll let me dnload lts of porn n illegal tv init"

I'm only 18 but I find it disgusting that nobody can see that Virgin are doing this to keep customers happy and stop the network abusers bringing the network down to its knees.

It seems that whenever there is a new post about speeds, without looking at the facts its definitely traffic shaping causing that, get Sky instead, when that is a rubbish point of view.

• People complaining about STM on 10meg connections are talking crap. 10meg hasn't been enabled with STM yet, so how they are definitely 100% certainly being shaped even though they definitely haven't downloaded anything at all is beyond me.
• People don't seem to be looking at the facts. A 20meg connection bringing downstream bandwidth of 1 meg is NOT an STM issue!!! 20meg is shaped to 5, not 1meg.

I'm just getting sick of it now. It seems no-one can do anything for anyone nowadays without some do-gooding jobsworth butting in "ooh no, that speed isn't a problem with your modem its definitely being shaped there. Ooh phone up and complain, then get a nice big discount".

It seems people are assuming EVERYONE is suffering slow speeds. I'm certainly not. I was downloading Ubuntu last night at a solid 2.27MB/s which is definitely the correct speed. Then had a few hours online gaming. I never hit the throttling limit. (and before you say that my area isn't being throttled, it is, I have 20mb).

Many people here have really got to wake up and smell the coffee. This isn't the end of the world. Yeah, your downloads may take a little longer but who cares? It's not like a relative of yours has been diagnosed with a terminal disease (even then you can bet your life it's Virgin Medias fault :rolleyes:).

Nick :mad:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

There was no other way of saying it.
It is true. you are saying it's still faster than dial up and a lot other providers, as if that makes it all ok.

At the risk of sounding sarcastic again. they are reducing the speeds by the throttling thing they're doing. yours and others might not have gone down, but is that because you're not throttled yet, or because you have not hit the limit where you would? everyone will be throttled when they reach the limit.

I think it is benefiting the network by saving them money. and I don't think it is keeping the majority of customers happy. there is still a large majority that don't even know. when they do eventually find out they might approve, and they might not. but we do know that everyone is entitled to their opinion :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

After talking to VM CS I put a scenario to them if I unplugged the modem all day plugged it in after 4pm after work, downloaded a product paid for or a large Microsoft beta file that maxed me out on download only would i be capped. I was told yes as i would be in the 5%....... At one time it was what was used all day that worked out who was the 5% not 20/40mins in the evening when people come home from work.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Exactly. the 5% is flawed. there is no 5% as anyone who downloads to their limit is hit by this. this is where people are losing trust with Virgin because they say one thing and do another.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

It's not all OK, admittedly, but people are going way over the top about this. Sorry - I was a little harsh!

The thing is not everyone is going to hit the limit, therefore not everyone's speeds are going to go down.

Out of interest how is it going to save them money?

How do we know that these people will find out? Not all of them will notice the difference between 20meg and 5 meg, my parent's didn't notice between 20meg and 10meg!

Hear hear. Opinions are everything and I can appreciate others point of view - but it's not a scandal, its not an outrage, its a speed limit for those of us who download quite a lot.

I'm sticking by my opinion. It seems so many on these forums are on a strict hate campaign against Virgin that there is no converting them to seeing the other side of the argument.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I am not being sarcastic and I'm not being rude, but that comment says it all :erm:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Not totally true as I said in my post if you have the modem unplugged all day plug in download 400mb on a 2mb connection you are capped that might be all you downloaded that day while someone else might have already maxed out their connection al day.

This will not improve the lower speed customers by much as we all know those who download the most go for the faster speeds and they are not capped enough to stop them doing it.

The network cannot take the faster speeds i know this by my connection which often hangs and I am on 4MB always after 4pm.. Will I see an improvement not so far and once the 50MB comes out it will only get worse.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

That is why I edited my post as soon as I posted it :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

I can admit that the threshold is lower on the lower tiers...

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So, before you ask advice from someone, you give them a spelling test first to see if they're worthy do you?
Members who give red reps for spelling mistakes must be very petty minded IMO.
You are always making assumptions about other members on these forums. Yes, there has always been a vague clause in the AUP, but as you know full well, no details were mentioned. Are you implying that whatever restrictions VM apply are justified, just because of the vague clause in the AUP?
...btw, it's Mbps, not mpbs. M=mega, m=milli.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I'm not too hot on the reputation points so don't have a go at me about it. I was also talking about the content of the post!!

Not always, just that many forum members are complaining about the same thing needlessly.

Yes, I am. If it is in the AUP it's in the AUP at the end of the day. They obviously didn't give many details as the way to cut down on unsociable bandwidth usage was being researched.

And if there was little detail about murder in law, doesn't mean it's right does it?

Yes I know, no need to be petty about it!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Surely, it is 'pedantic'? ;)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

AAAAAAAAANNNRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

Whatever lol, it means almost the same thing!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

O well limited speed but cheap services well looks like I am gonna use my connection mainly in off peak hrs

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

The unsociable downloading you are saying isn't totaly true with the present capping system as anyone regardless of what they have downloaded all day, week, month and year is caught. Not just those who constantly abuse the network. I seldom download large files but i build websites for a hobby plus beta test for Microsoft so large files would occsianally be downloaded. I have never used any P2P program wouldn't know where to start using one and have no wish to start now. But if I downloaded a legit software program I will fall foul of this present system. This I feel is where VM have failed the occasional large file downloader, they are not looking at the overall picture for the connection just a 20/40min snapshot. Sadly this is where my complaint comes from and I have always paid full price for my connection, ADSL is now coming cheaper and we seem to be going the other way dearer with restrictions. With ADSL if you have the lower cap you pay less than £25 on ADSL I could have 30GB/300GB £24.99 upto 8MB

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Or you could think of it more like the variable speed limit section of the M25 near Heathrow.
You could just leave the 70 mph sign up all day and night and have people trying to do 70 in the rush hour and failing and the wonderful ripple effects of brake lights causing traffic to stop and start. OR, you could throttle the speed of the road to a lower limit which means all the traffic flows more evenly, even if some of those with cars capable of 70 or more can't get home as fast as they might like, though with the actual congestion on the road, could never achieve.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Well said!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

this is flawed, how can you suggest you are reducing congestion by reducing everyones speed but at the same time offering all the same people the option to drive even faster than they could before?

---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

i've read my contract, always known about the aup, how can you even consider that using your connection for 20 minutes is unacceptable and deserves the punishment of getting your connection cut in half for 4 hours?

Edit: i can also throw that argument around, the only reason i can see people defending traffic shaping is because they dont care and can still download tons of porn and more illegal downloads than anyone else.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

exactly what i said, they uses the up to Term to justisy all the above reason u gave, thats u our speeds are never constant,

but VM cant use the UPTO term to justify the spped throttle, it doesnt work like that,

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

maybe someone can answer this, back when ntl:telewest had their 256k,512k,756k package did they have the aup because i'm sure i remember people not wanting to upgrade then because of the changes to the contract.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Possibly, but the point is you are using a shared resource. Increasing the maximum speed enables people to use that resource faster when there is less congestion (keeping to a road analagy, a bit like the German Autobahns), but also reflecting and understanding that at times you cannot drive flat out (and as such about 30% of the autobahn network has speed limits on it).

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

If your provider isn't able to provide the bandwidth that they've sold.

If your provider isn't able to provide the bandwidth that they've sold.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

i can understand that its a shared resource and it is limited but wasn't traffic shaping brought in to reduce peak time congestion not increase off peak speed?

edit: and by introducing 20mb they have in effect cancelled out the traffic shaping in an attempt to offer higher speeds.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Yes, I doubt the 5% figure is anywhere near accuate, but it's difficult to target since the users effected will be constantly shifting.... maybe it's 5% at any one time, but it's clear the actual percentage of users who will be effected is considerably more than 5%. I'd say considering the level of the cap for the various packages, most users will be subject to shaping *at some point*.

If not, you have to ask why they've got a BB package that vastly outweights their usage requirements?

It would be interesting to know both how the 5% figure is arrived at and the percentage of users effected in total, though I suspect that may raise a few eyebrows in government.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

update: i got 4th call from virgin today about my ispa compalient, just about 30 mins ago,

i got so fedup with them, i calncelled my whole TV serivce with them and downgraded from Talk Anywhere 800

now i just pay £39 for talk XL and Brobadband XL.

well i just got so angery, so they lost a high paying customer.

i am thinking about going to Broband L, then i will just pay £27/month for BB L and Talk XL, which good coz its just 13.50 a service.

haha VM.

they are gonna loose ppl like me, who pay premium, i was paying £100+ for my services.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I guess our government and motor manufacturers are not able to provide the road capacity to support all the cars they have sold. Our rail networks ar not able to provide seat capacity for all the tickets they sold. Capacity management occurs everywhere. You are buying a contended resource and this is contention management. Your alternative to buy an uncontended resource.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

man what is that, totally bogus, u sure u can compare the service with cars and train?

the government dont sell the cars!!!!!!! but however is VM own network and its service and sales.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Oh do me a lemon, thats a perfect example.

I'm just going to wash my hands of this thread now. Flame me all you like for having MY OPINION, but all I know is that I'm happy with the service that VM provide, I'm happy with STM, (according to my summary of some of the replies to this thread) It seems to be reducing the heavy downloaders to tears, which I find funny.

It's good for me, internet is definitely quicker in my area of an evening now, so I'm happy.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

yes u be happy with ur 20MB surfing we pages, just wondering exactly y would u need 20MB to read emails and surf web, or hell even play games online. even tv streams dont need more than 8mbit connection.

virgin offer 20mb coz they know downloaders will come to them, now they cant handle us, they wanna spped manage.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

So you're admitting you are leeching illegal downloads on Virgin's broadband service? No wonder you're complaining about STM.

I am a heavy user, I play online games, I've got 5 PC's almost constantly using the net and haven't been managed yet.


It's down to people like you that VM introduced STM in the first place. You deserve to be reported to VM for downloading illegal material. I really don't like people like you...

EDIT: Just re-read your post... VIRGIN OFFER 20MB TO DOWNLOAD WAREZ? What the hell are you on? Virgin offer 20mb to download videos/LEGAL software and music! Not for YOU to THEIVE software developers and film industry products. Get off this forum and the VM network...

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

exacly y do u need 20mbit even if u have 5pcs.

cool down mannn!!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Because its there. I have 5 people in this household, I download quite a bit. Why should I have to justify my choice of broadband to someone?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

exactly, u dont need to justify ur choice, then dont tell other ppl how to use thir service. take ur own advice.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

All I know is that I and I'm sure 95% of this forum use thier broadband connections for what they are designed for, not downloading terabytes of illegal content!

Anyway I'm sure that I read in my contract about not using it for illegal downloads?!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

if virgin have a problem with me using thier serivce, i am sure we let them worry about it.

just to let u know 2/3 of interent traffic is P2p, isps will go bust if thye have problems with people downloading.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

OK, have you got proof of that? And do you have proof that everyone who downloads from P2P downloads illegal material?

And can you tell me how when WinMX was closed down, along with Morpheus and Kazaa, why ISP's didn't go bust then?

Infact don't worry about it, don't waste your "precious" bandwidth finding out. I am just going to walk away. I couldn't care less what you or anyone else uses their connection for. And don't patronise me. I know a lot more than you think.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

ohh alright u kmnow waht lets stop this, u clearly dont know p2p is i guess.

i guees ur happy with what u do with ur connection. i am pretty happy with what i do with my connection.

well for someone who use thier connection legally, u sure know lot of p2p netowks :) i give u that.

so lets leave it there

when i ment 2/3 p2p traffic, the traffic is generated by bitTorrent alone :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Deal, but as I said previously don't patronise me. I know exactly what P2P is and the technologies behind it.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

1) We ARE limited no matter what anyone inc the Mod says, the fact is if I drive on the M1 and am made to leave it after 5miles cause of roadworks then
I'm limited on my use of the M1, in the same sense as if I can use the M1 from start to finish but there is a speed restriction of 50MPH, its still a limit imposed on me.

2) This constant figure of 5% of high users its crap, there is a report on this forum or the other big forum showing the bottom/middle/high end users, the high end are approx 5% and do not take up the whole system, the middle average "Joe 6 Pack" user consumes most of the networks traffic, and at the end of the day the high end users had the same habits while we were on 512K, then 1meg, then 2meg, then 3meg, then 4meg and then 10meg while it was good for a period of time before NTL merger with TW-BY (takeover IMO).

You have your ISP to blame for takiing on more and more custmers in areas that were at limit of users for the design of the network, now most if not all UBR's are oversubscribed, a expression you didnt hear till recently and you can also read on these forums about how they dont dig deep and speed the profits on upgrading the network, they run it with a bare minium of a budget. (think it was yesterdays news)