Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Just think about things for a moment. How long has it taken NTL to upgrade to the current speeds and have all customers been upgraded yet? The longest wait for the upgrade is for 1Mb customers with STBs waiting to go to 1.5Mb. I would imagine that there is a considerable number of middle tier STB customers with Pace STBs that will have to be supplied with either an exchange Samsung box or SACM in order to achieve the forthcoming 2Mb service. This will take some time to do. As I have said a couple of times before, the £25 admin fee for the change may just be to jump the queue and have your new config file sent down to only you, together with a box swap or CM if needed. I would imagine that if NTL were to wait for all customers to have the right equipment needed to take advantage of the higher speeds then it would be a very long wait.

Even if the £25 is applied to all existing customers in order to upgrade then it is a small price to pay for what you will be getting. It is not that long ago that lower tier customers were paying £17.99 for 150k so effectively they are getting nearly 7 times the speed for a one off payment of £25. Middle tier will have increased from 600k to 2Mb, more than 3 times the speed for a one off £25. Upper tier will have tripled in speed for the £25.

If a year ago 1Mb customers had been offered a 3Mb service for a one off £25 payment I think they would all have said "bluddy great, I'll have that please".

Honestly, what do some people want? Will anything ever satisfy them?

Re: Just found this on Driverheaven
 

Seems a bizarre way for them to go and only a 50% speed bump and a 1/3 increase in cap differentiating the last two?

I suppose 5Gb/month is generous by the standards of capped ADSL - but if I could get uncapped 512k ADSL at a similar price, bye-bye NTL - I don't think I do 5Gb/month, but I'd rather not have to watch it - 5Gb/month at 1 Megabit is less than 1/2 hour flat out per day.

Unless they were to use an automatic warning, suspending, slowdowns system, it would be unworkable - a lower speed and a "gluttons only" cap level would be better.

Re: Just found this on Driverheaven
 

Damn, not having other users paying extra to subsidise you using as much as 10 or more of them, nasty :erm: (NB 5% of users use 60+% of the average ISP's bandwidth, and no I don't give a s**t about 'congestion' vs 'usage', timing downloads, etc, etc, that's for a capping thread. Just giving facts as they are in this context.

3Mbit at that price, with that traffic alowance, take it or leave it, no-one's gonna put a gun to your head and tell you to either upgrade or stop download dodgy stuff.

No it isn't metering. Metering would be making you pay per GB downloaded, which at a guess would bankrupt you fairly quickly, this is keeping the price sane and within reach of more people while supplying a service compatible with most users requirements.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record there but that's my take, and I'm jealous of those who can avail themselves of what I think is a really really good deal.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Just wondering what happens to those people who don't upgrade to the new speeds, will they be automatically pushed on to them with the cap? of will they be allowed to stay on the speed they are at without the new capping limits? (even though there is that suggestion there is one at the moment)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

If you upgrade with ADSL you are charged an adminstration charge. If you don't like the charge you have two choices. Stay on the one they move you two never up or downgrading or move to BT.. Oh they also charge to upgrade BT charge the ISPs £15 plus Vat and the ISPs pass this on to the customer...
So you still have to pay...

After reading what NTL have offered I am really worried about what type of people NTL have attracted as customers!!

Come on guys they have offered something you have been asking for, they have made the changes without price increases. Even Telewest charge £50 for 3mb..

The old saying jumps to mind


They are Damned if they do and Damned if they don't

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Here Here, hence I dont mind paying it, Sure you quoted the right person? :)

All I can say to NTL is bring on the upgrades, I cant wait to finally match my dutch friend who is on 3Mb atm, hes going to be very annoyed when he realises mine is CHEAPER too :D

Re: More ntl speed changes
 

It is not just the config file which needs to be updated. Sending out new config files to over 1 million people is never going to be an easy task. There is also upgrades to ubr's required. The network has been being upgraded since the summer which is how we got the 1.5mbps upgrade. There is also not just one server which everyone in the UK connects to. There is various pops round the country e.g. manchester, bromley, etc.

How will it be difficult to keep customers on different speeds. It is no different to have the 3 different speeds that we have at the moment excpet there will be 6.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

this is all good news.
although, i don't think it's fair that 300k customers, who upgrade to 1mb (like me), will end up with a 5gb cap per month. when we currently have 1gb per day/ 30gb per month. :(
i'm sure i download more that 5gb per month. but 1mb would be very nice :Yes:

but it only costs £25 for the upgrade....so i shant complain (for a while ;) )

:D

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

What is everbody going to do with this extra speed?

Will the way that you use your connection change?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Probably not just make things happen quicker.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

:clap:

and take a green rep as well :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Sure did we agree on the admin charge and I added the fuel that BT already charge it
;) :clap: :clap:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Just when everyone thought NTL was asleep, the giant awakes!!!!

One month ago I was on 512KB ADSL with no prospect of faster speeds (BT+rusty line),
today I am at 1.5MB (NTL) with the prospect of 3MB, did I make the right move or did I make the right move?
Where do I send the £25, I want to be at the front of the queue :walk:

:erm: Is it too early to start a new thread asking for even faster speeds? :Yikes:
A free upgrade to 6MB sounds about right to keep us happy throughout 2005 don't you think? ....Q2 would be good timing :D

Broadband Britain = NTL :hugs:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

yer 12mbps by Q4 next year :D

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

so maybe i missed it all but do i have to swap to this or can i stay on the 1gig cap thing that they dont do anything about?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

what the hell am i reading here! NTL have increased speeds i applaud them for doing that, im not happy with the cap, slightly unhappy with the £25 admin fee to upgrade to the faster tiers but all in all its an excellent move, when will people get off their anti NTL horses and admit NTL have come up trumps for once, lets sit back and wait for the speeds to come through first quarter 2005, its like people want to intentionally moan at NTL and nit pick on the tiniest of things :rant:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I'll be paying the £25 fee, as I'm sick of 300K. I want 1MB!!! :p:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Even with the 5 gig cap?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

If that's per month then I don't think I'll ever use that up.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

That timing makes sense :D

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Yes I admit I haven't read all the posts here and elsewhere

BUT

What are the upload speeds going to be? I want to be able to send big emails quickly or work from home by VPN, download isn't everything, and all ADSL seem to start at 256kb up don't they?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

256k up?

not that isnt right ... you can only get 256k upload except on llu service e.g. bulldog in central london.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

nope wrong- Buldog offer higher uploads of 384kbps

as far as i know- infact, everyone i know on adsl, is on 256kb upload

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

If you live in London that is, and the quoted speed is up to 400k up and up to 4MB down, which leaves the majority of the UK with 256k up, to be fair 3mb/256 Still is a tasty prospect.

EDIT : I Live 40 Miles from London and Bulldog can only Offer 256k upload, and 2MB down.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Those complaining about the £25 fee should spare a thought for those of us who bought our cable modems back in the early days when we didnt have a choice.

We paid about £150 for the modem and as such we have always got a £5 discount since rental became an option. However if you try and upgrade from 750k to 1.5mb they refuse to take the discount into effect and it will almost certainly be the same here.

This mean not onlt do we have to pay £25 to upgrade but we either have to stick outselves with a stupid 5GB limit or pay £5 a month more than we do now for something we dont need.

Again just another example of long term customers who helped them support the product in the early days being screwed over in favour of new customers



As for if these will be proper caps I have to say the fact they are mentioned in the press releases would suggest that they will be. Why make it such an issue otherwise. Only other reason could be as others have said they want to scare people into not downgrading in which case they wont clarify their position and will leave us to all take a risk

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Its a wonderful democracy in which we live.

I have just read through this, and I have been amazed by some of the snivelling, whining, cheap, ungrateful, narrow, and unjustifiably negative viewpoints that some users seem to have contrived to aspire to.

However, for the most part the majority seem to be happy with a stonking speed upgrade that may incur a reasonable one-off admin fee to instigate, and, it seems to me, answers all of the calls for more speed/better value that have been made in recent history.

A quick summary of the Poll indicates that the large majority of resondents presently represented, are happy to suck in the extra speed and remain at their current subscribed service level.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

As things stand, ntl cannot really impose caps because they have no ability to mass monitor usage in such a way that you, the user, can be kept informed as well. But I doubt this situation will last.

They are spending millions on upgrading the networks for these new speeds, and other services, and my bet is that this new equipment will be able to monitor you usage much better, and keep you informed of it.

Maybe not straight away, but I think it will come - and when it does, I suspect you will see a big change in attitude - and they will start to take action against you if you exceed your limit, either by cutting you off, or reducing your speed, or maybe charging you for the extra usage.

btw - I haven't seen this mentioned, but I am led to believe that the caps for these new speeds are 'total traffic', i.e. upload and download.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

USAGE ALLOWANCE :mad:, well I wasnt expecting something for nothing, But then again lets hope that this go's the same way as which telephone deregulation has by brining in ever decreasing prices due to competition, thats what's really needed for broadband, competition.

Remember back when NTL 1st introduced the 1mb service at £49.99 sure that sounded good at the time but when you consider the sort of speeds available elsewhere at the time for example in Japan, North America and the Scandanavian and Benelux area's 10mb, 100mb or dedicated fibre optic home use connections for around the $30.00 a month. Yeah we were getting a real good deal :dunce: .

Well in retrospect "to me it seems" that they'll try to make anything fly or get away with what ever they can, just enough, Dont get me wrong its not that im complaining or even saying that its bad, on the contrary id be more then willing to pay for what I use since its the fair thing but regaurdless were still not getting a fair deal. Not when you look around and see whats available elsewhere.

P.S. this isnt a attack on anybody, Just my Opinion.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

The usage restriction could be for upload & download then ? That would be positively terrible.

For all those people complaining about others complaining, spot the joke there, do you honestly believe NTL are gonna give so much without taking something ?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Come the New Year BT are charging £2 per Gig for going over the limit, this seems a more sensible approach rather than cutting people off, the Telco's are only in it for the money after all. :devsmoke:


Be ready for the upgrade, get that Cable Modem water cooled. :afire:

The countdown has started and until the upgrades start this forum is going to be full of speculation, just the thing to pass these dark evenings away.

:dunce: Happy days are here again!

ntl: #1

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I need to look into moving to an NTL-cabled area...or I could wait to see how the DSL providers respond.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Is the cap montly? If so I think I may be staying on my 300K with my 1GB per day :erm:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Being new to Broadband at 300k, I can only say the news from NTL is wonderful. At last the company seems to be able to offer an exciting product, the upgrade to 1 meg is very welcome and will clearly put NTL services in the lead. Having endured dial up at 54 kbps for so long believe me 300k is a dream and 1 meg would be a blessing. Caps don't bother me but certainly if people are being selfish in using up bandwidth at other customers expense then by all means cap them.

Bring it on NTL, well done NTL wise move.

:)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

now we pay £25 a month for 700k or £38 a month for 1.5m - so you're getting 100% extra speed for an extra £13.

with these new speeds you pay £25 for 2mb or £38 for 3mb - so you'll only get 50% extra speed for you an extra £13!

and the price difference between the 1mb and the 2mb product will be £7 but the price difference between 2mb and 3mb is £13!

so the best value option with the new speeds will be the £25 version.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

And still with a 1GB a day cap on the 3Mbit and no way to monitor a family household usage ? (Unless you buy a very expensive snmp router or build your own).

If so its not tempting me to return to a new 12 month contract with NTL even if it was just for the BB. Sorry but 1 GB a day on those speeds is just ludicrous with todays internet content, in a multi pc enviroment, that NTL themselves promoted.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Its still 30gb a month at 2mb speeds which is ample for me.........It means I can get what I need quicker at no extra cost.........all good

I was once worried I exceeded the cap but on monitoring.

I do go over 1gb some days by quite a bit, but other days im out at the football etc or cant be arsed with the Internet I hardly use anything.

So It probably evens out to be quite a bit less than 30gb in a month I go over on about 10 days, 1Gb of data in a day is still quite a bit.

Unless you are running a fileshare empire!

ntl did plan to introduce 'Metered Broadband' next year according to a timescale on a presentation for investor relations. So this and new metered products may feature this when the cap is exceeded.

At the end of the day you have to make some compromises, either let all the fileshare bandwidth hogs come on and max their connections really screwing the network or impose a cap ample for the average user and bankrupt the bandwidth hogs with extra charges.

Either way
1mb for £17.99

2mb for £24.99

£37 for 3mb

all good good for the UK

Wonder if it wakes BT up, there is noway that they can possibly ever continue to sell a pishy 1GB capped 512k service for £19.99.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Is there never going to be a "pay more" d\load as much as you like scheme?
I assume business lines can, [?] its a shame theres nothing a little more flexible.
Allready the great new speed increases are over shadowed by caps and usage. Yes i know nearly every other provider has them, but most are looking to those that dont, for the time being anyway. ;)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I might be willing to pay about 60 to 70 a month for a 2 or 3 mb unlimited download.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I've got to admit I'm impressed with NTL for the first time in years with this announcement, I'm not bothered about a one off £25 charge, and I will go from 1.5 Mb to 3Mb the minute it's available.

I just hope that UK ISP's (including NTL) re-think this whole ludicrous "cap" nonsense.
Luckily NTL (for them) don't seem to actively enforce it, the second they do I will drop all my services (currently phone, toptier BB and top tier Cable TV) and switch to Bulldog, AOL or one of the MANY other ISPs that have no down/upload limits.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

The majority want it cheap. ntl are aiming for the mass market who want faster speeds cheaper, the majority of the UK only browse and download occassional mp3s...........the usage pattern may change in the future. We are a nation of browsers this is the reason why 300k service and even capped 512k services are so popular because this is what the majority use and need and is perfectly sufficient.

ntl are pushing things up a level which may lead to different usage patterns in the UK.

I personally wouldnt ever consider paying more than £25 for any form of Broadband

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

As I understand it the old tiers are not disappearing, there are three new ones. In summary we have:

With no cap or 1GB per day soft cap or beanie:
£17.99 per month = 300kbps down; 64kbps up; ~30GB per month usage allowance
£24.99 per month = 750kbps down; 128kbps up; ~30GB per month usage allowance
£37.99 per month = 1.5Mbps down; 256kbps up; ~30GB per month usage allowance

With a hard monthly cap:
£17.99 per month = 1Mbps down; ? mbps up; 5GB per month usage allowance
£24.99 per month = 2Mbps down; ? mbps up; 30GB per month usage allowance
£37.99 per month = 3Mbps down; 256kbps up; 40GB per month usage allowance

Existing customers wishing to change from the 'slow' to the 'fast' group will have to pay a £25 upgrade charge. Any upgrading customers who access broadband through a Pace STB will get theirs swapped for a Samsung or get switched to SACM plus STB.

That is the situation as I understand it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

About the new speed proposals (1mb, 2mb etc)
 

I was reading the info about the upgrade to speeds and was happy to see that i could get 2mb for what i am paying now.
But what worries me is the proposed caps they are looking to put on, now i run 2 pcs on a router and both are used for heavy internet gaming, one is sometimes left running for large periods of the day running a game (bot tasking) and the other general when i am playing.
Ontop of this i tend to download a lot of large update files regularly and also am currently in web design so upload to ftp's a-lot and download various things.

According to a calculation i will use my bandwith cap in 30hours just from playing the game alone, are these caps final? Can i remain on my 700k without a bandwith limit? am i gonna be gettin charged more for using to much bw?

(and no i ain't cutting down the gaming since i pay per month for it and enjoy it a-lot cept on fridays when the town and ladies is a callin lol)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I think the whole capped usage thing is ultimately destructive for ISP's, customers vote with their wallets and it will only take BT's customers being charged silly amounts for a couple of linux distros or NTL's hard enforcement of caps and people will start looking for cap free providers. The same thing happened with dial-up with people moving to free usage as soon as it became available.

Companies (like NTL and BT) that don't listen to what their customers want will ultimately lose those customers to companies (like BulldogDSL and AOL) who do.

I've been happy in the main with NTL for ~3 years now and have no intention of changing, but the SECOND they start to enforce the cap, I'm off to an ISP that has no cap :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I agree that there should be an option (£5-10 on top of product price) that allows uncapped. Then ntl win both ways.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Methinks you are enjoying the newsgroups, Torrents, DC networks whatever far too much. If you can afford 70 quid a month on an internet connection buy the blinking stuff you're downloading!

That sort of package would have an uptake of next to nothing, the only people who are likely to take it are those downloading then selling stuff for the most part (not that I'm implying you do).

Just FYI 70 quid a month still won't cover your costs if you are using your connection to its' fullest capacity, which I'm thinking you do or fairly close to it, on 3Mbit you can download 900GB in a month. When you factor in bandwidth prices to ntl, which although lower than most due to scale will still be there, along with fixed costs of their own network capacity, the local cable networks capacity.

To be honest I seriously doubt 70 quid covers the external bandwidth, let alone the far more expensive internal bandwidth.

On the other hand if there's a 'top up' facility released at some point with a charge per GB once you go past your limit, and your usage isn't that insane you may find a reasonable compromise and price point. Unfortunately there are very few ISPs that cater to the all you can eat market particularly. Bulldog tried it and managed to thoroughly overload their core an local networks. Plusnet are trying it but are creaking a bit under the load, while performance to MOST users isn't being harmed yet some are getting sub-standard performance at times.

As I've probably said a ton of times before, Japanese and Swedish for example may have uncapped services, however they also have congested networks. Japanese on 100Mbit rarely see more than 2Mbit of throughput once they are outside their own country. Swedes it's a similar issue unless the traffic is going to certain destinations their ISP is directly connected to. Also at some points in their core networks problems may arise..

The other thing to bear in mind is that most of these had Government assistance in some way. In the case of Sweden tax breaks for the people doing the infrastructure and in the case of Japan a very competition friendly Government that allowed the local equivalent of BT, NTT to install fibre wherever they felt the need on condition they allowed anyone who paid to use it, which NTT did as they are a forward looking company happy to make investment now and see the returns over a longer period. UK people complain like crazy if they aren't getting full throughput on their connection, hate packet loss, hi pings. Without contending the networks madly speeds like that on an unlimited basis just aren't an option. Oh and you forgot to mention that a number of those unlimited ultra quick providers traffic shape (control bandwidth usage) and block certain ports and applications.

Check out the situation in the UK, LLU still in its' infancy, BT's fastest wholesale product is 2Mbit/256k and has been since 2000 public release and 1996 in trials.

What's the point in ntl busting their backs and throwing loads of money on a solution to take on everyone? These deals are better than anything offered by the biggest 3 ADSL players (BT Retail, Tiscali, Wanadoo) and from the point of view of raw connection speed the fastest home connections in the UK outside of 35 Central London Bulldog enabled exchanges.

You can't please everyone all the time, but ntl are doing good business and pleasing the vast, vast majority with this deal. Not much more you could ask really.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I've said this before, And I'll say it again, Uncapped ISP's are a dying breed, really, they are, because the more people who go to them because of the uncapped service, the less profit they will make.

Bandwidth is expensive, very expensive, as more and more ISPs add caps, the ones who dont, will be hit harder and harder by customers who abuse the unlimited services, which over time will force them to increase their price, or add caps, either way, anyone who downloads more than 40GB a month, costs the ISP more than they get back from them.

If the only reason to change ISP is a cap, and not quality of service, or reliability, then your reasoning is flawed.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

End of the day it's his reasoning and his decision, pay your money take your choice.
I will say though that the unlimited BulldogDSL service (which my Hi-Velo service WAS backhauled through) was for 2 months nearly utterly atrocious. On a 2Mbit business line I was seeing 128k ISDN like download speeds, first hop pings of nearly 100ms and 10% or more packet loss. This was during peak times. In the middle of the night I could get about equivalent speeds to a 512k ADSL line, and the packet loss was a mere 5% or so, pings in the 40s and 50s first hop.
However if this is the kind of service you don't mind in return for unlimited downloads...

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I've been looking at ADSL for a while now, enforcement of the cap would be the final push I need to move to it, my reasoning is sound.

I currently spend ~100pcm with NTL for all three services although the only one I really care about is BB, the phone would be replaced by my mobile (the only reason I have the phone is that it's free with CTV), CTV would be replaced with freeview (yeah I know, FAR less channels, but at least interactive works and I wouldn't have to reset my box EVERY NIGHT) and cable BB by Bulldog DSL or one of the other unmetered comapnies :)

It would all be cheaper as a package, BUT as I've stated before I've been pretty happy with NTL, but as BB is pretty much the only reason I'm staying with them and I don't agree with capping, I would be forced to move.

Bulldog DID have problems, but they seem to be pretty good now, however I'm only using them as an example, any ISP with no cap will do :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Right....

firstly: :clap: to NTL - this is great news, and puts NTL back at the top of the BB table.

Secondly - "usage allowance" : IT HAS NOT CHANGED ON THE 2M or 3M (in fact the 3M will be higher). :Yikes:
Yes, the 1M has a low "CAP", but then it is aimed at people who mainly surf, that does not involve huge downloads. - if you want a higher "cap" then get a better service !!

thirdly : <rant time - sorry> :rant: I have never read so much rubbish about how this is a bad thing, and how NTL are trying to con us etc...

NTL are giving you higher speeds - something that we have been asking for for ages. :clap:
They are not charging you any more per month for this. :tu:
Ok, they say there will be a £25 admin fee - I will happily pay this - how much will they charge new users fo installation ? :angel:
If you do not want to move to the new speeds (although I personally cannot see any reason for this :erm: ) then you do not have to. :shrug:

I have been pretty anti-NTL in most of my time on this forum (under it's many names ;) ) but this is something that NTL have got right, and I think that people need to recognise that, rather than focus on the negatives :afire: ....
</rant - feel better for that :angel: >

We had a "CAP" discussion when it was first announced - and I have yet to know anyone who has been disconnected for breaking this.
If you really need to download 40+Gb per month, then get a business service, because that is the only reason I can see for downloading that amount of data every month.

As ever - these are my opinions - you may not agree - but they will remain my opinions.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

yes this looks like good news. The only problem I can see is that NTL are still in debt at the moment. I don't think my 4000 STB could take 1 MB or 2 MB broadband so that would need to be upgraded. I'm sure alot of users are also in the same situation. Maybe that is what part of the admin fee is being used for.

Looks like good news and I await this happening. What with the announcement that they are also working on a PVR type box and VOD as well things are starting to move.

Loads of people on here are always saying cable has so many advantages over sat with the network and everything and it looks like NTL are starting to realise that. If we can get a stable STB and decent broadband service i'll stick with them.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

It is quite easy to sit at home using Google and find examples of high bandwidth connections and low prices across the globe but do you see the full picture?

Many of the prices you see are introductory prices, but what will they be after the offers end? Many of the high speeds are only available in certain urban areas and you get nothing like them once you are outside of them. Bulldog in central London and Dolphin Squares 10Mb with NTL are examples.

What is the service like for users of these very cheap, very high bandwidth connections? Do they actually give you the full whack all the time? Do those on 10Mb connections actually get to use this speed or are they just toddling along at a fraction of it as there is nowhere to connect that enables them to use it to the max? Do they have congestion? Do they have caps?

In the UK we have broadband delivered mainly by telephone line or cable. Most of the infrastructure used is years old and cannot supply the higher speeds craved by some. Even cable which is not that old is running in some areas on infrastructure that is way out of date. When the first cable companies in the UK began laying cable they were not considering TV with hundreds of channels and internet connections with massive bandwidth. The systems they put in were quickly running at the limit of their capabilities and couldn't easily or cheaply be upgraded. Parts of London, parts of Leicester and other places are prime examples of this.

In some countries some areas are using cable carried overground on poles which is cheaper and more easily upgraded. Some areas have cable which was installed in a manner that is more easily upgraded than ours here is. Some areas overseas have had massive government assistance in building the network. What we have in the UK is not easily changed and is costly to change. Who is going to pay for this change? The tooth fairy isn't going to pay for it so it must be the user that pays, but are you, the users, prepared to pay? Could you afford to pay?

It is very easy to look at what is available elsewhere and what it costs, but the stark reality is that you live here in the UK.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Do you know this for certain?

I can't see ntl having 6 tiers of service. It would be much "cleaner" to have just 1, 2 & 3MB service options.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

So do you intend to move from isp to isp as they cap there usage, And dont forget that they might charge you a admin fee to change each time. I am willing to bet that within 3 years 98% of isp's will have a cap. As each isp cap's the warez downloaders will move to the next uncapped isp then when they finally make them all cap "those that dont might have big problems paying for all the bandwidth and go to the wall, When have we seen that before" So where will they all get there software and bad cams to sell on a saturday morning at the local computer fair.

Please note I am not saying anyone here does that but we all know someone who does it ;).

What i would like is a fast connection that i can use when i need it and not be ruined by billy downloader who happens to be on the same connection as me. Hopefully this is what NTL are going to give me :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Looking at the poll at the moment with 113 members having voted NTL stand to lose £128 per month from them (give or take a few coppers) if they all do as they say.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

On the contrary, the only reason I know any warez monkeys is by being a member of this forum ... :erm:

Whether their rampant p2p-ing is ultimately for their own consumption or for sale down Paddy's Market / The Barras / <Insert local outlet of dodgy warez here> I don't know.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

this must be the case as NTL are offering the new speeds as an option for existing customers to take for a £25 charge - therefore you have the option to remain on the old speeds (until they force you to changeover).

the old tiers wont be available for new customers though.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Not for certian - but the NTL statement is that existing customers "can upgrade from Q1 2005 for a fee of £25".

I take the "can" as a "can but do not have to", otherwise I would expect "existing customers MUST upgrade" in their somewhere.

I may be wrong - but that is how I read it.
(but as I said - I cannot see why people would not want to :naughty: )

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I must admit i feel sorry for anyone on the same ubr as a warez monkey as you put them :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

A 40Gb cap is not unreasonable compared to some that exist, BUT bandwidth usage is INCREASING not DECREASING and to be capped to todays reasonable level is tomorrow's unreasonable level.

It will all have to be reviewed at some point when Ultra high bandwidth (VOD for example) become more common place, already any software I do buy is done electronically by downloading the package, this will only increase and IMHO the 40gb cap WILL become restrictive.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

nice to see this is developing into a CAP thread!

zzzzzzzzzzzz

:D

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Who's to say cap will stay as it is? As technology progresses packages progress with it, naturally.

By the time VOD is really widespread most likely DOCSIS 3 will be around and ready to rumble, which will be rather pleasant :)

Nothing stopping future caps being traffic sensitive - certain types of traffic being explicitly excluded or included, just a question of the required hardware being installed for deep application layer inspection of the data.

Likewise nothing stopping traffic shaping (eek swearword!!) being used in lieu of or as an accompanyment to more generous traffic limits.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

sorry :blush:
That really wasn't my intention.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

we can but hope :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

One point that is being missed is that in reality NTL BB prices are coming down whilst you are getting faster and faster speeds. Prices held with positive inflation means you have to work less hours to pay for them.

DOCSIS 3 ?, what happened to DOCSIS 2 ? ;)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

That's a bit steep! :shocked:

I'm on 2Mbps uncapped with PlusNet for £40.

Have to admit that a 30GB capped 2Mbps product with NTL would be much cheaper, but then I refuse to put up with endless packet loss, modem reboots, slow pings and terminally slow browsing on a 2Mbps product, as I had been getting on 1.5Mbps with NTL. I'm happy to pay more money for better quality and especially a stunningly better level of customer service with PlusNet.

NTL should sort out the network and local problems, plus their customer service, rather than concentrate on increasing speeds at lower prices to attract new customers thus congesting the network further. Sort that lot out, and I'd consider coming back (though I'd be more interested in NTL via ADSL than Cable Modem, as I'm convinced now that ADSL is a better technology in the long run, unless NTL are prepared to re-lay the entire cable network).

Though a little thought I've just had... is this confirmed to be a speed increase on NTL's cable network or is this actually what's going to be offered on their LLU ADSL connections? (or will they offer it on both?).

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

As far as I see now, Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m staying on the £17.99 300K with the 30GB a month cap. Although I thought it did not have a cap, but I read different now. :(

What is the point of giving us a faster connection able to download things and use the net more when there is such a low cap. If I had the new 1MB service for £17.99 Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d go over the 5GB downloading Demoââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s and clips, Music with that speed and does that mean that you loose the connection.:Yikes:

Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s like giving you a Ferrari and giving you 5 miles to drive it, utter madness you can ripe down the road fast as you like but the journey ends rather fast or drive at 2mph and make it last but your sitting on all this power.:rolleyes:

Surly the 5GB a month is wrong?
How much is 5GB in reality to normal usage?

I would only take it if you got a warning that you had the last 1GB free for usage so I could stop all downloads and just use my everyday essentials like browsing, E-mail.

The upgrade looked good even with the Admin fee (£25 ouch) but im not so sure now.:confused:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Confirmed as being on cable network.
Your area is fixed up now, it was never congested, however following some planned work some things went wrong that took a while to isolate. This has now been done and Woking is sweet again.
ADSL as it is now certainly isn't a better technology, pure copper, distance dependent, 8mbit/1mbit maximum vs hybrid fibre / coaxial network, no distance limitations, current max speeds ~28Mbps down and 4Mbits upstream (on ntl's implementation, can go a little higher with extra kit).
Certainly DSL will progress, however BT have had a max speed on their products of 2Mbit downstream 256k upstream for 4 years since commercial launch, and this is the same rate they trialled 8 years ago.
Whatever technology is the best it's down to what the companies decide to do with it. Virtually everywhere ntl have bb BT do as well, so ntl are competing with BT. Due to it being much cheaper to DSL enable an exchange than lay new cable in a town BT are able to cover much more of the country, so in their mind ntl / Telewest aren't really an issue as they have all these monopoly areas, which is why their product line has been so static, and their main innovations are removing unmetered charging for their bandwidth to smaller ISPs (a work in progress) and introducing massively higher charges for those ISPs that want to be able to use the pipes unmetered in order to get those extra few quid out of ISPs and customers.
Meanwhile their own ADSL ISP is so fed up with the rest of the company's attitude towards growing DSL's abilities and wholesale prices that they are considering unbundling exchanges themselves to have more control.

Fundamentally due to deeper fibre in network cable is the better technology, ntl are by the looks of it by far the more progressive company as well (comparing to BT Wholesale, who supply ADSL connectivity to all ISPs that don't unbundle).

Considerably above average for 300k customers, approximately average for 750k....

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

link

...and here

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Ah DOCSIS 2 only really gives higher upstreams, DOCSIS 3 will allow 'bonding' of multiple downstream channels, supplying nominal 56Mbit using 2 channels for example, instead of 28.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

NTL deserve a clap for this, I think maybe the top tier should be higher cap (50 or 60 gig) but in general I like.

1 - Bottom tier is low cap to stop mass downgrading from middle to bottom tier
2 - Middle tier is same cap as now but a speed increase from 750kbit to 2mbit (250%)
3 - Top tier gets a cap increase and double speed

As it stands ntl is just using a soft cap system and I think for at least the first 6 months it will stay that way, they will probably monitor usage and and send out letters to people who really take the **** (900 gig a month), then if they see the problem becoming to widespread then they might introduce a hard capping system.
I also like how finally the bottom tier have a lower cap limit. I will at this time probably stay on the middle tier.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

More Info....

Some people have been asking some questions and I have over the last 24 hours sought to get some of them answered.

£25 Administration Fee

Simon Duffy - Chief executive of ntl has told me that these upgrades are going to cost ntl tens of millions of pounds, he doesn't expect customers to pay for the increases but it does not seem unreasonable to ask them to contribute a modest amount to the cost of the upgrade. Simon says, Wanadoo has done the same for its 1 MB product.

Usage Allowance

The usage caps are that previously mentioned in this thread they have been confirmed as:-

1Mbps = 5GB month usage allowance.
2Mbps = 30GB month usage allowance.
3Mbps = 40GB month usage allowance.

Simon Duffy has stated to me:-

"I think the market needs to accept that the days of unlimited usage for all are over. The vast majority of users will not be impacted by the limits, but the small number who regularly use GB by the ton drive our costs up significantly and, since we are not a charity, we need to recover them somehow. It doesn't seem fair to ask the majority of moderate users to subsidise the small number of heavy users and usage caps are the best way to ensure fair treatment for all."

Upload Speeds

NTL will release more information such as this in the new year however ntl do not think that the current upload speeds will be changing.

Going on the fact that they have not given me a definitive answer, is probably an indication that they have not made a final decision on what the upload speeds will be.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I think that's perfectly reasonable, and Simon Duffy should be applauded for being willing to clarify things through a user forum such as this one.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

:tu:

nice one Mick good to see the team trying to get answers to the questions, and even more impressive is that you get the answers :)

keep up the good work :D

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I agree with him but at the same time I can see it being bad PR expecting existing customers to pay this whereas new customers jump onboard and dont pay.

It's the long term loyal existing customers who helped finance the network and get it to where it is today not the new ones!

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Again i think you are jumping ahead of yourself as it does not say that, that will be the case does it?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Jesus, quit whining! There may be an installation charge for new customers yet, and can I point out that banks/investors financed the network, not the customers. Why do you think ntl has so much debt - because the customers were paying enough for ntl to break even per install? Yeah, right.....

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

It's just how they are enforced that I'm concerned about. 40GB a month just isn't quite enough for me on a 3Mb line something nearer 50 would be better. But if It's strictly enoforced I'll either have to adjust my habits or find another provider. Does AOL on the NTL network offer the same speeds as NTL? Although I'm loathe to go to them as I've been very happy with NTL for a number of years now.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

There's no need to be so rude. I'm not whining - I'm just able to appreciate both view points.


Look back in the thread from yesterday - the chetnet link indicates new customers wont pay.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

To put in context for a silver surfer like myself , What exactly would 40gb cap mean in say music downloads etc.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Chetnet link where?

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

If you only download music it's more than enough, 40GB is about as much data as say 8 DVD's

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

http://www.chetnet.co.uk/portal/foru...?threadid=3922

"Prices include free installation, free cable modem and free activation"

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

No at the moment they do not. And i have been informed that aol customers on the cable network still have to abide by the ntl terms and conditions as far as the cap goes. Of course if you ask aol that, they will not give you an answer i bet .

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

At the moment. Where does it say that covers when they release the new speeds and where does it say it does not. You can read in to that what you want depending which side the wall you are on
:D

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

at the moment they do yes...but when the new speeds launch i would doubt that is the case. I don't see where they got that quote form Aziad from?!?!

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I think the new speeds are good news. Obviously I'd prefer the speed increase to be free, but £25 is acceptable as a 1-off charge.

There are a couple of things I would like to mention though, incase Simon Duffy's reading this or someone's passing ideas on to him:

1. There is some contention about the £25 charge & the possibility of new users getting free installation, whilst long term users are paying the £25. Why would NTL give freebies/discounts to new users? as an incentive to sign up. However, this creates bad will with long term users who will have payed the £25 charge. I suggest a compromise - £25 for existing users, free installation for new users opting for bottom tier, an installation/setup fee for those new users wanting middle or top tier BB, & the upgrade charge for those new users who join at bottom tier, but later decide to move up to middle or top tier.

2. When monitoring/governing the cap, please use real GB, not marketing GB. A gigabyte is 1,024MB, or 1,073,741,824 bytes - a marketing gigabyte [invented by hard drive manufacturers to exagerate the size of their drives] is 1000MB.

<edit>
I forgot to add - my reason for my 2nd suggestion is that bandwidth monitoring software uses real GB not marketing GB.
</edit>

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

A Gigabyte is 1000MB, you are thinking of a Gibibyte (binary notation). The officially ratified quantity of a Gigabyte is 1000MB.

If the capping were to be enforced robustly ntl would supply a means of watching how much has been downloaded. To do otherwise would be unfair.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I would be happy to pay the £25 admin fee for 300k - 1mb, but 5gb simply isn't enough for my needs.

I would probably require a 10gb a month cap.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

same here.
i'm pretty sure i download more that 5gb per month on my 300k.
it doesn't seem fair that existing, loyal 300k customers will be given a 5gb per month cap, when it was 30gb.

an extra 2 or 3 gb would be good, 10gb per month would be better of course!... HINT HINT ntl! :angel:

but 1mb sounds very nice.... :shocked:
:rant:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Mmmmmmm anal. (not receiving btw)

*ahem* :angel:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I dunno, if NTL announced that they were upgrading the speeds for nothing this forum'd be packed full of whingers complaining about how unfair it all was.

Oh, hang on, they did exactly that a couple of months ago didn't they. And if memory serves the forum was packed full of whingers complaining about how unfair it all was ...... :rolleyes:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Some people will never be happy - I think they expect ntl to pay them for use of the internet. :rolleyes:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Always makes me laugh when people complain about people complaining.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

I'd like to complain about people complaining about me complaining about people complaining !

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

**********STOP THE PRESS**********


NTL customers want blood from a stone and want NTL to pay for it.


:shocked:

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Aha yes, but I wasn't complaining about you complaining about others complaining. I was merely commenting on the comedy of complaining about complaining :)

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

We really shouldn't complain, it's a good deal to pay 25 quid for the privilege to go from an uncapped service to a service that we can only use for 58 mins per day at full swing at 3mb(69mins for 2mb, 23mins for 1mb).

In my opinion the 1mb and 2mb services are fine. Both aimed at people who aren't heavy users. Fine for browsing, emailing, online gaming, and the odd game demo download etc. But when it comes to the 3mb service, which is clearly aimed at heavy users and to only offer them an extra 33% on the cap is just stupid. If Ntl want to lead the market and be what they make out they are, then they really should add a little more common sense. For a 3mb service to really work the cap has to at least be 60gb a month. Otherwise it's just a joke.

They are expecting a HEAVY internet user to subscribe to a service that only allows them 58 mins of full use per day. LESS than the time allowed for a 2mb customer, who is supposed to use the service less!

3mb: 40GB a month = 1.3GB a day. 1.3GB a day / 370k per sec = 3513 seconds use = 58 mins full use per day.
2mb: 30GB a month = 1GB per day. 1gb a day / 240k per sec = 4166 seconds = 69.4 mins full use per day.
1mb: 5GB a month = 166mb per day. 166mb a day / 120k per sec = 1388 seconds = 23 mins full use per day.

I plan to downgrade to the 2mb service, and as soon as i can get 1mb ASDL in my area i'm going to AOL.

Just a question: By paying the 25 pound admin cost, are we signing a new 12 month contract? And thus accepting the new terms and conditions (ie. the caps)? If we choose not to upgrade/downgrade do the caps still apply? And can they enforce them as easily?

Sounds to me like Ntl have actually been very clever for once, offering faster speeds that most people won't utilize (750k users upgrading to 2mb which is of no use to them, just for the higher cap), and at the same time adding a proper cap, giving with one hand, taking away with the other... a bit like the price rise of 1mb, then upgrading to 1.5mb. :-D

The 2mb service is definately good value, and is even competitive. The 3mb service is a joke.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

You can use the connection for 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

What would you do with your connection that would use the full 3Mb continuously?

What will you be able to do with the 1Mb ADSL connection that you are hoping for that you can't do with the 3Mb NTL one?

Get real, it's a fantastic deal that NTL are giving us.

Re: [Now Official] More ntl speed changes
 

Yeah, it's a real joke having such a fast service for a one off £25 payment - I for one will certainly be laughing (at all the slow ADSL ers ;))


Funny, I'm sure the service will be 24 x 7, just like my 1.5mbps is. :D

You seem to be under the delusion that eveyone who wants the 3mbps service just wants to max their connection out downloading half the internet. Well guess what, that's not true, and it seems to me that these caps are there to prevent exactly that - which as far as I'm concerned is brilliant - I hope all the moaning bandwidth hoggers go elsewhere, and leave the rest of us to our nice fast service. :)