Re: Brexit
 

That’s a shame you don’t wish to participate in discussion. I’ve told you and others that the warning signs were there politically that there wasn’t a will in Parliament to see this through.

I can understand your frustrations at the Brexit dream potentially dying, but that’s not actually a reason to dismiss my points out of hand.

I’ve said before leaving the EU requires strong government, a clear aim in negotiations and a lead in period of years to minimise economic impact. If we established our position 18 months ago and stuck to it businesses would have three years to prepare. Instead we are sitting three months before Brexit day weighing up a bad deal, no deal, Parliament wanting a role in negotiations and an increasing sense we may remain.

We are in this problem because no Government prepared for the possibility of a leave vote and we triggered A50 too quickly. The people voted, corruption aside, to leave the EU. They didn’t say “leave the EU as soon as possible with little/no preparations with a deal negotiated on the back of a cigarette paper at the last minute after three Brexit secretaries”.

I wouldn’t describe the country as in an impossible situation. There’s a very easy way out.

Re: Brexit
 

And it’s about time you stopped misrepresenting the facts to suit your one sided agenda. You cannot count people ineligible to vote or could not be arsed to in a % calculation and I will keep correcting you.

Re: Brexit
 

The problem is the use of the word electorate. The electorate is those entitled to vote. Whether they did so or not is irrelevant to the definition of that group. Just as it’s not appropriate to present it as 52% “of the population” as that group includes those not entitled to vote.

The 52% can only be framed as those entitled to vote who actively voted on the day. It’s a lower figure as a proportion of the electorate and the population.

I suppose in the flexible world of the leave voter “bad deal” has now been redefined to “good deal” so the definition of words has to remain fluid to keep the dream alive.

Helpfully the electoral commission published the number in 2016.

Electorate 100%: 46,499,537
Population 100% estimate: 65,600,000.

Re: Brexit
 

A reasonable analogy is if one is buying a house you make sure you have completely left no stone unturned before you purchase that house and not just buy that house without doing any homework on it and then realise when you move into that house there are problems in every bit of that house which then require significant repair and investment.

Re: Brexit
 

There’s still the possibility to do all these things, but nobody wants take the time or opportunity to have the adult conversation between the electorate, Parliament, Government and the EU. Time pressure, rather than force no deal appears to have more chance of forcing remain.

The freedom of movement brigade are showing their true colours. It wasn’t about trade, a good deal or a strong United Kingdom. It was dog whistle racism and xenophobia whatever the economic consequences.

Re: Brexit
 

Yet again, it’s bs desperation to try delegitimise the referendum result. I don’t give a shit how some of you remainers see it. But the numbers ars there. Leave won by over a million votes.

Re: Brexit
 

We aren’t trying to delegitimise the result. But by definition to say leave is what the majority of the electorate want, or the population want, it’s verifiably untrue. The number fails to meet the definition of majority of both the 46 and 65 million figures.

It’s what the majority of the people who chose to vote on a given day want. By definition that’s how a referendum is won and lost - I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point. That on it’s own doesn’t delegitimise the result.

Re: Brexit
 

Indeed l have not stated anywhere that the result should be changed but that does not mean one should not hold a view on the utterly shambolic chaos since we had the referendum over two years ago.

Re: Brexit
 

The Conservative party being elected in the 2017 General Election with a mandate to leave the European Union which we are doing. However, not many people seem to accept the approach being taken.

Surely once you have a vote, in this case to put the Conservative Party in to power, should we be sticking by the outcome of the vote and supporting the Government? Anything else would be against the will of the people...

Re: Brexit
 

Thing is, that's how voting works, for anything not just referenda, it's who turns up on the day that counts, anything else is just meaningless nonsense that just smacks of sour grapes, else we could go through every GE result in history and say 'oh it was only 10% of the electorate' or whatever.

If you don't show - you don't get a say - simple.

Re: Brexit
 

Nobody is disputing that part.

However, the word electorate has a clear definition, like population. To use either of those words misrepresents what actually happened and at face value overstates the vote.

The most accurate statement that can be made is that the majority of voters selected the option to leave. Voters being the subset of the electorate who actually turned up.

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------

If you are relying on that election result as a mandate for the Conservatives to do anything then you are skating on very thin ice. A minority of voters and a minority Government.

Re: Brexit
 

What is happening regarding Theresa May and Brexit was utterly inevitable after the general election . It is what inevitably happens to minority governments throughout history. It was parliament that brought down the Jim Callaghan government . It was parliament that defeated the Labour governments repeatedly in the 1970's and it is now parliament that is taking control now.

Re: Brexit
 

Originally Posted by denphone View Post
A reasonable analogy is if one is buying a house you make sure you have completely left no stone unturned before you purchase that house and not just buy that house without doing any homework on it and then realise when you move into that house there are problems in every bit of that house which then require significant repair and investment.


Ask anybody who has bought a new build house.The "snagging list"on some of these jerry built houses are lengthy as can be seen from the media stories which frequently pop up on the news.Same as an old house you can get the survey done therefore relying on the competence of the surveyor but horror stories can emerge later on and the surveyors have their backside covered in well hidden clauses of the survey t&c's.
If you are entitled to vote, then cannot be bothered to, then you do not count in anyway.

Re: Brexit
 

I think the competence of the surveyors in this instance: Farage, Johnson, Mogg, is certainly under question.

The thing is we still have the deposit in our pockets and can walk away if need be.

Re: Brexit
 

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