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-   -   June 8th General Election (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704776)

pip08456 08-05-2017 19:41
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Bring back the Bitrch!!! They'll love it!

1andrew1 08-05-2017 19:43
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Interesting stats cropped up in one of my feeds:

Labour 2010
National debt £979.8bn
National debt as a % of GDP 65%

Conservatives 2016
National debt £1,731.4tn
National debt as a % of GDP 89%

If it's correct, it puts an interesting slant on things.

heero_yuy 08-05-2017 19:46
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35898071)
Interesting stats cropped up in one of my feeds:

Labour 2010
National debt £979.8bn
National debt as a % of GDP 65%

Conservatives 2016
National debt £1,731.4tn
National debt as a % of GDP 89%

If it's correct, it puts an interesting slant on things.
Especially as Labour are projecting a spending spree on borrowed money. This will only make it much worse.

Osem 08-05-2017 20:00
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35898072)
Especially as Labour are projecting a spending spree on borrowed money. This will only make it much worse.
I wonder how much worse the figures would now be had Labour stayed in power spending money like there was no tomorrow and signing outrageously expensive PFI contracts. They have a habit of leaving others to clear up their mess.

pip08456 08-05-2017 20:38
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35898071)
Interesting stats cropped up in one of my feeds:

Labour 2010
National debt £979.8bn
National debt as a % of GDP 65%

Conservatives 2016
National debt £1,731.4tn
National debt as a % of GDP 89%

If it's correct, it puts an interesting slant on things.
The interesting slant is that it totally ignores the LibDem involvement.

Chris 08-05-2017 21:23
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35898071)
Interesting stats cropped up in one of my feeds:

Labour 2010
National debt £979.8bn
National debt as a % of GDP 65%

Conservatives 2016
National debt £1,731.4tn
National debt as a % of GDP 89%

If it's correct, it puts an interesting slant on things.
It doesn't put any slant on anything. These figures, and the reason for them, are well known.

The national debt has gone up because there is a structural deficit - each year, we spend more than we raise in tax. There is a structural deficit because Labour allowed welfare and other spending to spiral and because in 2008 they then had to borrow a shedload of cash to bail out the banks. Because we have to service the debt, in order to shrink the deficit the Tory government since 2010 has been reducing public spending (the austerity Lefties like to bleat about). Only once the structural deficit has been eliminated can the national debt start to fall.

If there is a Tory government after June 8 this year, the deficit will shrink and disappear, and the national debt will start to be paid down.

If there is a Labour government after June 8, the deficit and the debt will go up, just as it would have done if Labour had won in 2015.

The choice really is that simple.

Damien 08-05-2017 21:24
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Debt isn't a useful measurement. As long as we have a deficit the debt will increase naturally. This would have been especially true post-2008 and for many years after that as we entered recession and the deficit increased.

At lot of this is tribal. Labour complaining the Tories have increased the debt as if they wouldn't have, as if anyone wouldn't have, after coming into government and the Tories lifting policies from Labour's 2015 manifesto that they deemed economically stupid then but helping people now. I remember the howls of derision pointed at Miliband for the cap on energy prices and now it's going to be Tory policy just two years later. Labour are promising to protect the triple-lock (which is bad policy) and the Tories aren't. The 'proper' socialists leading the Labour Party are going to rule out tax rises for '95% of people'. :spin:

I really do think you could take the Tory Manifesto, package it as Labours, and give it to a Labour supporter only to hear them gush about how much better it is than the Tories and the same the other way around.

Mr K 08-05-2017 21:28
Re: June 8th General Election
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...a7723491.html#
Quote:
. Labour and Liberal Democrat activists have united with the Green Party in a groundbreaking alliance aimed at unseating Jeremy Hunt in the general election.
A "progressive forum" organised by the South West Surrey Compass group over the weekend saw the Green Party withdraw their candidate from the race completely, while Liberal Democrats and Labour members agreed not to campaign, after members from all four parties selected the leader of the National Health Action party as the best placed candidate to oppose the Health Secretary.
Nice to find an issue parties can unite on ! Poor Jeremy, probably save May from sacking him anyway...

Damien 08-05-2017 21:30
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35898078)
It doesn't put any slant on anything. These figures, and the reason for them, are well known.

The national debt has gone up because there is a structural deficit - each year, we spend more than we raise in tax. There is a structural deficit because Labour allowed welfare and other spending to spiral and because in 2008 they then had to borrow a shedload of cash to bail out the banks. Because we have to service the debt, in order to shrink the deficit the Tory government since 2010 has been reducing public spending (the austerity Lefties like to bleat about). Only once the structural deficit has been eliminated can the national debt start to fall.

If there is a Tory government after June 8 this year, the deficit will shrink and disappear, and the national debt will start to be paid down.

If there is a Labour government after June 8, the deficit and the debt will go up, just as it would have done if Labour had won in 2015.

The choice really is that simple.
Well you can also attempt to stimulate the economy in the hope the debt ratio to GDP lowers and the debt becomes less daunting and even inflates away. Maybe a package of infrastructure spending and investment will be a part of the Tory platform this time. Austerity has ostensibly being happening for 7 years and seems to have had more success in causing resentment and unrest than achieving the self-imposed goals the Tories had. I think they'll be storing up problems if they come unto a decade of it with no end in sight.

1andrew1 08-05-2017 22:54
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898081)
Well you can also attempt to stimulate the economy in the hope the debt ratio to GDP lowers and the debt becomes less daunting and even inflates away. Maybe a package of infrastructure spending and investment will be a part of the Tory platform this time. Austerity has ostensibly being happening for 7 years and seems to have had more success in causing resentment and unrest than achieving the self-imposed goals the Tories had. I think they'll be storing up problems if they come unto a decade of it with no end in sight.
Interesting post. Hasn't there been a shift in spending towards more capital expenditure eg Crossrail and away from funding of councils? This looks set to continue with HS2.
Interestingly, councils have been borrowing from the low-interest Public Works Loans Board to fund over £1bn of property investment. They then rent the property out for profit to subsidise their day-to-day activities. How long this business model can last I'm not sure.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-credit-bubble
http://www.publiclawtoday.co.uk/loca...rchases-report

Ramrod 09-05-2017 10:39
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898079)

I really do think you could take the Tory Manifesto, package it as Labours, and give it to a Labour supporter only to hear them gush about how much better it is than the Tories and the same the other way around.
:tu: :(

Mr K 09-05-2017 11:42
Re: June 8th General Election
 
See the Tory energy cap is likely to increase bills!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...may-can-bring/
Quote:
Energy companies have been 
accused of behaving in an unfair and unreasonable way after raising prices before a proposed government price cap is introduced.

Centrica, the owner of British Gas, warned that Theresa May’s flagship policy would drive up prices even higher by reducing competition.

Ramrod 09-05-2017 12:41
Re: June 8th General Election
 
I noticed that. I'm flummoxed as to why the tories are considering such a move. :confused:

1andrew1 09-05-2017 12:53
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35898138)
I noticed that. I'm flummoxed as to why the tories are considering such a move. :confused:
They want to attract the just-about-managings in non-traditional Conservative areas and this is an issue for such people.

Osem 09-05-2017 13:13
Re: June 8th General Election
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898081)
Well you can also attempt to stimulate the economy in the hope the debt ratio to GDP lowers and the debt becomes less daunting and even inflates away. Maybe a package of infrastructure spending and investment will be a part of the Tory platform this time. Austerity has ostensibly being happening for 7 years and seems to have had more success in causing resentment and unrest than achieving the self-imposed goals the Tories had. I think they'll be storing up problems if they come unto a decade of it with no end in sight.
So much resentment that they won the election and will likely win this one by an even greater margin. I reckon the PM will welcome resentment like that. ;)


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