Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36126155)

Whether one likes Boris Johnson or not he is a dead man walking as these last 4 or 5 byelection defeats are very reminiscent of the John Major era..

The Conservatives need to face up to that or they are going to find it very hard to recover to win the next General Election.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36126156)

If they don’t disabuse themselves of that idea pretty soon, they may find themselves making electoral history for all the wrong reasons.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36126155)

Whether one likes Boris Johnson or not he is a dead man walking as these last 4 or 5 byelection defeats are very reminiscent of the John Major era..

The Conservatives need to face up to that or they are going to find it very hard to recover to win the next General Election.

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36126162)

It seems pretty clear that the only hope the conservatives have of winning the next election is to ditch Boris.

Whatever public support he had (which was a lot at one point) has now gone.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36126163)

They can only get rid of him if they change the no-confidence rules again if l am correct.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36126168)

I don't think he had that much support in the first place. Just an anyone but Corbyn vote.

That Tory MP vote giving him 'confidence' for another year, might be the most important in this Parliament. Well played Tory muppets ! :D

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126167)

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126172)

It's not just in his DNA to change unless compelled. He thinks rules are for little people and to be fair, that's how things usually work out for him.

Yes, he'll say he's learnt the lessons but won't change his behaviour.

To be fair, it's served him well so far: he's the PM who partied through lockdown like it was freshers' week and just paid one small fine for the privilege.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126172)

It's not just in his DNA to change unless compelled. He thinks rules are for little people and to be fair, that's how things usually work out for him.

Yes, he'll say he's learnt the lessons but won't change his behaviour.

To be fair, it's served him well so far: he's the PM who partied through lockdown like it was freshers' week and just paid one small fine for the privilege.

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36126255)

Jeezo, they must have some bloody boring parties when it's freshers week.

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36126263)

Who knows he could do a Zelensky and ban opposition parties, declare martial law, etc.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36126273)

Culture war, class war, war on migrants. Take your pick.

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36126282)

That's a good start. :p:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36126273)

Culture war, class war, war on migrants. Take your pick.

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36126284)

Doesnt "Migrants" mean anyone who moves to another country, including those who leave the UK ?

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36126286)

Sometimes I think the culture war is only there to distract from the class war that should imo be being waged



They're called ex pats, that's real British exceptionalism :D

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126289)

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36126293)

End of monarchy as we see it now, no more lords, no more old school tie, a kind of meritocracy when skill and talent is more important than who your dad knows, where political favours aren't granted because of donations to parties, that type of thing might be nice and where lobbiests don't have much clout either

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126294)

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36126170)

or few in cabinet resign but that not going to happen

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ----------



exactly Corbyn was main reason most people voted for Johnson now Johnson not got that now since thankfully Corbyn out of labour party now

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126172)

It's not just in his DNA to change unless compelled. He thinks rules are for little people and to be fair, that's how things usually work out for him.

Yes, he'll say he's learnt the lessons but won't change his behaviour.

To be fair, it's served him well so far: he's the PM who partied through lockdown like it was freshers' week and just paid one small fine for the privilege.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36126295)

Nope won't happen, everytime it looks like people might finally be close to having enough they find a distraction like the inane culture war

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126297)

The promise of Brexit and levelling up were the main factors for the size of his majority, Dave.

---------- Post added at 19:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------



Except he didn’t. He got one puddly fine for a cake ambush. Big deal.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126297)

The promise of Brexit and levelling up were the main factors for the size of his majority, Dave.

---------- Post added at 19:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------



Except he didn’t. He got one puddly fine for a cake ambush. Big deal.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126297)

Except he didn’t. He got one puddly fine for a cake ambush. Big deal.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126321)

He literally said, after attending all the parties while the country was locked down, he would do it all again. What don't you get?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126294)

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126322)

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36126284)

Doesnt "Migrants" mean anyone who moves to another country, including those who leave the UK ?

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36126319)

the anyone but Corbyn was main one OB and brexit is a disaster and leveling up your having a laugh how is that going the gap between rich and poor growing bigger not smaller

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126332)

It’s not a disaster. It just hasn’t got started yet. Now we have Covid thwarted, you can bet your life everything will start moving now.

Business will not be able to take advantage of the freedoms they were promised until we’ve sorted out the protocol and scrapped all the bureaucratic EU legislation. That’s all coming over the following months.

Additionally, we have some important trade deals to put in place which will also for the first time include services, our biggest earner.

As for prices and the cost of living er - have you seen there’s a war in Ukraine? The internet is full of it, you know!

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126323)

The fact that you endorse the "Greed Is Good" principle to governing the country is disappointing. You also conflate these objectively valid suggestions with the "eventual demise of the democracy": a deliberate overreaction.

None of these would damage democracy, in fact they would do the opposite. Endorsing visible corruption by those in power is the road to the demise of the democracy.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------



I think more than Geidt have spotted this :)

---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

On the subject of visible corruption by those in power:



[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36126337)

keep looking for the unicorn OB it sure is a disaster and this is not the brexit thread

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126323)

The fact that you endorse the "Greed Is Good" principle to governing the country is disappointing. You also conflate these objectively valid suggestions with the "eventual demise of the democracy": a deliberate overreaction.

None of these would damage democracy, in fact they would do the opposite. Endorsing visible corruption by those in power is the road to the demise of the democracy.

<SNIP>

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36126340)

Yeah, I remember corrupt governments. Cash for Honours. Happened under Labour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal :rolleyes:

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Enough. You have no business telling others what a disaster is when you, was prepared to accept a Marxist, in no 10, with Corbyn. :dunce:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126332)

It’s not a disaster. It just hasn’t got started yet. Now we have Covid thwarted, you can bet your life everything will start moving now.

Business will not be able to take advantage of the freedoms they were promised until we’ve sorted out the protocol and scrapped all the bureaucratic EU legislation. That’s all coming over the following months.

Additionally, we have some important trade deals to put in place which will also for the first time include services, our biggest earner.

As for prices and the cost of living er - have you seen there’s a war in Ukraine? The internet is full of it, you know!

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36126344)

i did not want Corbyn never voted for him once just for the record as i said at time the choice was worst in history at last general election i will never want a marxist in no 10

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126345)

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

Brexit is more than started, it's been done, albeit a hard Brexit that is messing up the governance of Northern Ireland and reducing investment.

I wish Covid were thwarted, it's more like that we've been able to reduce its impact through vaccinations.

Businesses generally want the freedom to trade with Europe more easily, not the scrapping of legislation that will require two costly sets of standards to be complied with if they want to trade in the UK and the growing Single Market.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126345)

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126352)

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36126357)

Did we have a hard brexit? I think not although IMHO we should have done. I seem to recall Parliament voting to prevent a hard brexit.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36126351)

My bad, must have been another Dave, craving for Jezza.

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36126357)

Did we have a hard brexit? I think not although IMHO we should have done. I seem to recall Parliament voting to prevent a hard brexit.

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36126356)

What £500 would that be exactly ?

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126321)

He literally said, after attending all the parties while the country was locked down, he would do it all again. What don't you get?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126322)

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36126337)

keep looking for the unicorn OB it sure is a disaster and this is not the brexit thread

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126345)

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

Brexit is more than started, it's been done, albeit a hard Brexit that is messing up the governance of Northern Ireland and reducing investment.

I wish Covid were thwarted, it's more like that we've been able to reduce its impact through vaccinations.

Businesses generally want the freedom to trade with Europe more easily, not the scrapping of legislation that will require two costly sets of standards to be complied with if they want to trade in the UK and the growing Single Market.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126368)

Oh, I get it. I also get it that some of the rules are pathetic and stupid and need to be consigned to the history books. If anyone can inject a bit of common sense into the way we do things in this country, he can.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126368)

We get in a fluster because Boris wants to introduce steel tariffs because it ‘breaks the law’, and yet EU countries do it all the time with impunity.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126368)

Remainiacs complain that the government wants to change the NI protocol, pointing out with relish that it is ‘the deal that Boris signed’. They ignore the fact that the only reason we need to change it is because of remainer sabotage and the obstacles the EU is putting in the way.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126342)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126374)

But you are a Conservative? The "greed is good" mantra is a basic tenet of Conservative philosophy since the 1980's. I don't see the problem here.

If you don't support:

- banker bonus pools measured in billions
- tax cuts for banks in the City
- numbers of high net worth individuals increasing over time
- the availability of myriad non-dom tax loop holes
- payment of political donations in order to procure Government contracts & favours
- increase in CEO & Executive remuneration plus shareholder dividends at the expense of workforce pay rises

then say now. I could go on & on but you get the idea.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126368)

The deal has been done but it’s not yet been implemented. We haven’t even got rid of the bureaucratic EU rules yet.

With Cakegate declining in the public consciousness, perhaps we can now get on with the real business. You can’t complain about what hasn’t been achieved when these obstacles are continually thrown at Boris to divert attention from the important things.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126300)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126368)

They were ‘leaving’ speeches, not parties, and the police recognised that, which is why he didn’t get a fine for those occasions. So of course he would do it again.

This doesn’t seem to be sinking into your cerebellum very well, ianch. Never mind, you’ll never be alone on this forum!

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------



Oh, I get it. I also get it that some of the rules are pathetic and stupid and need to be consigned to the history books. If anyone can inject a bit of common sense into the way we do things in this country, he can.

We get in a fluster because Boris wants to introduce steel tariffs because it ‘breaks the law’, and yet EU countries do it all the time with impunity.

Remainiacs complain that the government wants to change the NI protocol, pointing out with relish that it is ‘the deal that Boris signed’. They ignore the fact that the only reason we need to change it is because of remainer sabotage and the obstacles the EU is putting in the way.

All this nonsense must stop. This and the growing woke culture is of huge concern to people who want the best for our country.

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------



You are only correct on one thing - this is not the Brexit thread. May I delicately point out that you were the one who raised Brexit.

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------



The deal has been done but it’s not yet been implemented. We haven’t even got rid of the bureaucratic EU rules yet.

With Cakegate declining in the public consciousness, perhaps we can now get on with the real business. You can’t complain about what hasn’t been achieved when these obstacles are continually thrown at Boris to divert attention from the important things.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126378)

Don't hold your breath on a bonfire of red tape, Old Boy. Business is not queuing up for it.

The Brexit deal has largely been implemented. You seem to be asking for extra time after the ref's blown his whistle. One implementation exception being UK exports to the EU are checked but UK imports from the EU are not. No prizes for guessing that UK exporters feel they are at a disadvantage.

Cakegate was never in the public consciousness, I think you must mean Partygate. That's evolved onto the how-long-will-he-last? question.

Johnson brought Partygate upon himself. Unlike Covid 19 or the invasion of Ukraine.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36126382)

There you go Sephiroth, using woke as a distraction, pathetic and so easy to see through



I'm not really sure I want to see a bonfire of red tape and regulations, I ask myself who do they benefit, it's like when what ever ponce who is currently chancellor says they'll cut tax as a bribe to the electorate and I sit there thinking how does this really benefit me and what will I spend this new found wealth on, aka a fiver, a week/month/year whatever and who does it really benefit, someone on paye earning hundreds of thousands a year would do very well out of it but your little man, not so much and it's with that in mind I look at red tape and regulations, they're for the little mans benefit, I remember saying after the brexit vote when people were saying the employment rules would be ripped up that they wouldn't be only the ones that made it easier to get rid of people or discriminate but even after witnessing that we are still seemingly happy or not paying enough attention for these to be binned to, when will we learn

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36126380)

Lol, scraping the bottom of the barrel there, Andrew, a laughable link from a dreadful Scottish rag!

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36126383)

Wow, you are that naive you think someone earning hundreds of thousands a year would be on PAYE?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126385)

If they're working for a large company they will be. Plus of course share incentives etc.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36126388)

Stop being naive Andrew, Pip obviously knows how this stuff works :rolleyes: :spin:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126377)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126391)

No, you are wrong. The Conservative Party you seem to refer to is long gone. In it's place is one that values only itself and those that fund it. I am old enough to remember the Conservatives you refer to and, trust me, these are not them.

You admire Gove, Raab, Dorries, Mogg, Braverman, Davis, Frost, etc? I thought your judgement was better than this.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126392)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126391)

No, you are wrong. The Conservative Party you seem to refer to is long gone.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36126399)

I don’t disagree, the problem with the “general” shift in the political parties is that usual centre fight area. Labour have gone crazy left with the culture war stuff, then veered right with the working mans rights and also just failing to understand anyones thoughts outside of the M25. Whereas the Tory’s are just doing their best to squander all the goodwill they were given in 2019.

Labour, I would argue, are still behind - even after all the shit thrown at Boris - I would also argue that the longer Boris resists all that is thrown at him - the more he will gain.

There is, without doubt, a movement to oust Boris. A democratically elected PM ( that in my
opinion should be removed democratically) but his enemies don’t want that test……..I wonder why?

……….where have seen that before? Not a new move…………………

We will see the attack on Boris continue, hopefully he will stay the course, just to annoy people if nothing else.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36126399)

Labour, I would argue, are still behind - even after all the shit thrown at Boris - I would also argue that the longer Boris resists all that is thrown at him - the more he will gain.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36126406)

At the moment the polls and the results in by-elections suggest a hung Parliament with Labour as the largest party though. That's not because Labour is barnstorming its way back to popularity but because they have recovered from the Corbyn association and because Starmer doesn't scare people from voting Liberal Democrat. The Tories are losing some Red Wall voters back to Labour and some of their traditional seats to the Liberals.



His enemies in the party don't want it because they're worried about losing seats. Labour would want an election now. Why wouldn't they? Be great timing for them.

But it's not undemocratic for a party to depose their Prime Minister. It's happened to so many Prime Ministers. Johnson himself was part of the clique that removed May. Blair had to make way for Brown. Thatcher was booted out as well and so on.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36126408)

You can’t measure by-election results like that, during Thatchers reign in the mid 80’s, she and her party lost several by-elections, it looked like the Tories were doomed, however, history shows the Conservatives remained in power, right up until 1997.

Labour are unelectable, everything they touch, turns to shit, they can’t even decide that a woman born with a vagina, is an actual woman. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36126408)

You can’t measure by-election results like that, during Thatchers reign in the mid 80’s, she and her party lost several by-elections, it looked like the Tories were doomed, however, history shows the Conservatives remained in power, right up until 1997.

Labour are unelectable, everything they touch, turns to shit, they can’t even decide that a woman born with a vagina, is an actual woman. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126409)

The polls as well as the by-elections show Labour ahead. The only hope for the Conservatives is a change of leadership to someone untainted like Hunt.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126413)

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126416)

By untainted I mean not a Minister close to Johnson.

The bookies have him as a likely next leader.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics...rvative-leader

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126417)

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126409)

The polls as well as the by-elections show Labour ahead. The only hope for the Conservatives is a change of leadership to someone untainted like Hunt.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126409)

The polls as well as the by-elections show Labour ahead. The only hope for the Conservatives is a change of leadership to someone untainted like Hunt.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126400)

In terms of Labour having known policies that people can buy into or out of, I agree that they're behind. There comes a time when you need to put your cards on the table and be confident with your hand.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126418)

When you drive a Trabant, even a Lada is an upgrade. :D

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36126423)

This is their biggest weakness, they don't have a position on anything.

What is Starmer's position on the rail dispute?

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36126423)

This is their biggest weakness, they don't have a position on anything.

What is Starmer's position on the rail dispute?

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36126421)

I can smell your desperation, dream on.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36126423)

This is their biggest weakness, they don't have a position on anything.

What is Starmer's position on the rail dispute?

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36126428)

Starmer issued directive last week, no front benchers on picket lines. That order was defied, so there’s your answer.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126433)

I thought he had an exclusion order against you being that close?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...strike-pickets

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36126421)

I can smell your desperation, dream on.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36126436)

Indeed the Leader of the Labour Party not supporting the worker.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126438)

So he’s wrong if he supports the strike and he’s wrong if he doesn’t support the strike?

I thought he was supporting the workers - those trying to get to work by train?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36126439)

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126454)

One might…

But that would be extremely simplistic and probably incorrect, like saying because you support John Redwood’s actions & views, you don’t support any other Tory MP’s actions and views…

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36126409)

The polls as well as the by-elections show Labour ahead. The only hope for the Conservatives is a change of leadership to someone untainted like Hunt.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126438)

So he’s wrong if he supports the strike and he’s wrong if he doesn’t support the strike?

I thought he was supporting the workers - those trying to get to work by train?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126459)

Andrew, it’s mid-term! Don’t get your hopes up!

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Starmer supports the aim of the strike. His plan is to enter into negotiation over beer and sandwiches and then give them what they want.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126459)

Andrew, it’s mid-term! Don’t get your hoopes up!

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126465)

Your opinion?

How can he enter into negotiations, as he is neither the employer or the Government?

btw - "mid-term"?

The Conservatives have been running the country for over 12 years…

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126433)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...strike-pickets

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126483)

So, opinion expressed as a statement of fact…



(He can’t enter into negotiation as he’s not in charge…)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126495)

Hugh, don’t. You’re better than that.

Entering into negotiation is what he would do if he was PM. We know that, because that’s what he’s telling Boris to do.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126628)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62002088



In related news, some of the top trending subjects on Twitter are related to a Private Eye column today, about a subject previously reported in Lord Ashcroft’s book about Carrie Johnson.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126628)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62002088



In related news, some of the top trending subjects on Twitter are related to a Private Eye column today, about a subject previously reported in Lord Ashcroft’s book about Carrie Johnson.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126633)

It's like one giant school playground out there.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36126634)

I didn't get drunk and grope people in my playground. Sure it was against the school rules.
Its just another day in Toryland, meanwhile the country collapses...

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36126634)

I didn't get drunk and grope people in my playground. Sure it was against the school rules.
Its just another day in Toryland, meanwhile the country collapses...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126640)

I bet you were such a goody-goody when you were Master K.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36126645)

Call me dull but I'd rather be a goody goody than a sexual predator with wandering hands, just saying

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36126654)

I think it'll be viewed very negatively if Johnson tried to call an election whilst Labour were electing a leader. It would be seen as one of those things you just don't do.