Re: Brexit
 

I think no deal is on the cards but it’ll be after a referendum. Labour and the Conservatives on both the leave and remain side need a way out of this situation - kick it back to the people. No deal vs remain.

Re: Brexit
 

A signifcant number of their MPs/peers don't support Brexit. It isn't that simple Mick,no matter how desperate you are for 'winners' and 'losers'.

Re: Brexit
 

The Lib Dems did not beat the Brexit Party though so your point is moot. :dunce:

Also - It's not 34% so you are wrong - yet again, you are another one who needs to stop telling lies.

ALL tallying in the world will not remove the fact that the UK does not want to remain in the EU - this is a fact now from several elections and a referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

You are making the false assumption that is the only reason anyone would vote for them. Labour have a commitment to a second referendum if they can’t force a general election so can the People’s Vote campaign claim them?

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

So many elections you don’t believe they’d vote for it in a second referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

When it comes down to ‘hard Brexit’ or ‘leave means leave’ vs remain it tells a different tale

On overall vote share remain vs above wins that cannot be denied there is no mandate whatsoever for no deal

So we get back to the same position as before neither of the main parties want to pin their colours to the mast for fear of alienating voters

The Brexit part I doubt will take a significant share of the vote in a GE

Which leaves BRINO which neither side wants or a 2nd referendum

If the politicians won’t decide the people must a 2nd referendum containing two options

Leave immediately with no deal
Remain

It’s time to shit or get off the pot. The paralysis cannot continue

Re: Brexit
 

Wrong wrong wrong - Labour have a policy of honouring the referendum - I repeat that this is why Labour support went to Lib Democrats.

You are still LYING - pack it in - I have made no false assumption - the data is there - the UK still wants to leave the EU - nothing you say changes this, so stop lying!!!

Yawn - :zzz: clutching at straws with your you want a second referendum mantra, that leave would easily win again based on last nights results, that's why the country doesn't want one. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Remain voters do not have the advantage over leave voters, though, do they?

Re: Brexit
 

You don’t want one because you know you’d lose. That doesn’t equate to the country not wanting one.

The data is there you are either unable or unwilling to interpret it in a constructive or meaningful way. Which is fine. But it’s completely disingenuous to call another person a liar while misrepresenting Labour Party policy to suit your agenda.

Re: Brexit
 

I am sorry (well actually I am not) but this is just not accurate - Remain did not win above leave - Remain has lost 2 elections and a referendum now, when will "some" of you Remainers wake up and accept the Democratic result of 2016, 2017 and now 2019?!?!?!? :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

There’s no way of applying that result to the future referendum. 34 million people voted in the last referendum, many of whom didn’t vote last Thursday but undoubtedly would next time.

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

When leave wins the next referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

The data is there, and it shows the leave won. You've lost again, jfman, and cannot bring yourself to admit it.

Keep chewing, mate, but eventually, you have to swallow.

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------

So much speculation. So little in the way of facts.

Leave won.

Re: Brexit
 

It doesn’t show that at all, you are clearly aware of this hence remain unable to present a viable argument.

Remain only has to win once, all the leave victories so far haven’t done it any good.

Re: Brexit
 

I am not misrepresenting Labour Party Policy - they ran on honouring the result of the referendum and doing a deal with the tories - You are a liar.

I am very capable of reading and interpreting data, some one links to a piss poor image, who conveniently misses the Tories out of the % total when it campaigned on a leave ticket - gimme a break. :rolleyes:

Remain did not win last night, this is a fact - Strong party for Remain, that's the Lib Dems lost out big time vs. Brexit Party. They are the victors and the country does not want to remain in the EU - also a fact*.

* Data based on 2016 Referendum result, 2017 Election Result and now 2019 EU Elections result.

Re: Brexit
 

Fact: 34 million people voted in the referendum
Fact: less voted last Thursday
Fact: there’s no way of knowing what those who didn’t would do next time out.

:dunce:

Re: Brexit
 

Wrong - there will not be another referendum so stop going on about it FFS. :mad:

Re: Brexit
 

So where does the second referendum come into Labour Party policy, as agreed by the party conference? Why are you ignoring that inconvenient truth?

Re: Brexit
 

That's because you wrongly attribute Conservative and Labour voters as being something they are not. Why would remainers vote for a party standing on a Brexit manifesto instead of voting, say, Liberal Democrat at the EU elections?

Your interpretation makes no sense.

Re: Brexit
 

Mark my words. It’s the only way Labour and the Tories get to save face. I thought you’d welcome a further opportunity for this country to clearly demonstrate it wants to leave? After all we’ve done it so many times.

Re: Brexit
 

No it'll be a 'confirmatory vote' ;)

Re: Brexit
 

We are talking about the Labour manifesto, not the conference that was held after the election.

In any case, if you assume that all those who voted Labour voted remain, which they did not, leave still won. Do the math.

Re: Brexit
 

Your interpretation makes equally no sense. There was one clear Brexit option on the ballot paper. Why continue to vote for the Labour policy if you want to leave the EU?

---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

This EU election is based on the current party policy. Not the old one. :dunce:

You don’t get to walk into the polling booth and choose your favourite manifesto in recent times.

Re: Brexit
 

Why wouldn't they? As I said earlier, even if you discount all Labour voters, leave still won.

Re: Brexit
 

Sorry, rubbish, mark my words nothing - I believe in democracy and it already spoke in 2016. We voted to leave - you need to accept it that your side lost.

We do not keep voting on the same issue over and over, so you keep trying to get the result you want. That is not democracy.

You've lost 3 times now. Accept it, we're leaving.

Re: Brexit
 

You equally said we would be leaving on March 29. It didn’t happen. I’m not going hold my breath on your biased analysis holding up this time either.

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 ----------

Only by leaving them to the side, not by attributing them to remain. Less problematic with the Tories but the same principle applies. Plus the millions who didn’t vote but would in the inevitable future referendum. I’ve not made any attempts to attribute these either way, and as I’ve repeated what’s most important is the people who didn’t vote but would in future.

This result simply demonstrates the country remains polarised. Which is fine, it ensures the chaos continues and gives Parliament one way out only.

Re: Brexit
 

You mistake me for some one who cares if you hold your breath or not. Because I know whatever you're going to say, you will be totally lying.

And if it had been left up to me we would have left!!!

So do not put that kind of bullshit on me, I am not in government. I have balls and I would have got us a far better deal and out of the corrupted EU.

No - the country wants to leave as clearly demonstrated three times now.

I told you there will not be another referendum, not enough support in parliament for one, several votes on them have lost already - we are leaving and your side lost, stop lying.

Re: Brexit
 

Mick disagreeing with you isn’t lying. I predicted Parliament was going to extend. It did.

Re: Brexit
 

Means nothing.

Re: Brexit
 

Mick it’s staring you in the face that our MPs are going to steal Brexit from you unless it wins a second referendum. I’ve said it for months now and these results, May getting toppled and potentially a challenge to Corbyn make that more likely not less. They don’t want the blame so a second referendum is the easy way out.

You trust them even less than I do. Treasonous, treacherous, lying, all words thrown round this forum regularly - I don’t know why you expect them to deliver.

Re: Brexit
 

Leave won again last night, Leave: 44% to Remain: 40% so out we should go.

We do not need a second referendum, though I would welcome one because we'd clearly win again going off last nights results and typically, you'd be so pathetic and demand another one and then another and then another if you keep on losing them all.

I keep telling you, there is not enough parliamentary support for one, the numbers are just not there.

Re: Brexit
 

Labour is shifting it's position on a referendum. They can't get a GE, so it's the only way to go. The Tory membership and their choice of an unelected PM will be irrelevant. Parliament and then the public will decide. It's becomes more inevitable by the day.

The only possible Brexit was Mays deal and Brexiters incredibly voted against it. They have miscalculated and missed the chance.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4152131.html

Re: Brexit
 

If he doesn't accept the result he's in good company .

Re: Brexit
 

Andrew Neil BBC political presenter views.

Re: Brexit
 

Probably because the Tories will do anything to avoid an election....

Re: Brexit
 

You wish! Prepare for no deal on 31 October.

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

He's right. But obviously, neither will happen.

Re: Brexit
 

Exactly as they would be lucky if they got more then 100 seats if there was a election..

Re: Brexit
 

Please stop bringing this man in to this discussion - no idea why you and Damien keep bringing it up - he lost (quite rightfully), so no idea why he is still being mentioned.

Re: Brexit
 

He usually knows which way the wind is blowing as he is a experienced political pundit.

Re: Brexit
 

As I said, he is right. We agree on that.

However, both scenarios are so unlikely as can be safely discounted.

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

That's right. It seems to be the typical refrain of the losers: "I want another vote!"

That's what one of my Grandsons would have said when he was 3. He's not 10 yet, but he's grown out of that whingy "It isn't fair" stage. It's about time our politicians grew up too.

Re: Brexit
 

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/stat...37706647031808

Precisely.

Re: Brexit
 

Because he stood as a MEP candidate in the EU elections, suopporting Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

Just to make it clear to you OB l have never once said there should be another vote

Re: Brexit
 

Well I don't understand the need to keep raising his loss - he lost, no big deal.

Re: Brexit
 

1) It's funny 2) His loss says good things about the UK. 3) One thing that unites a lot of us 4) Very funny

Re: Brexit
 

Total vote tallies are in:-

Labour campaigned on a Leave with a deal ticket so it's gone in Leave column, Tory party also ran with "Get Brexit done", so it too is there.

Even if we remove Labour's tally from the leave total, it still flattens Remain with 7,304,926 total votes.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1558965927

Re: Brexit
 

My remark was aimed at Tommy Robinson, Den.

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

That's quite a decisive win for leave, no doubt about that.

Re: Brexit
 

Okay OB.:)

Re: Brexit
 

No majority there for a hard Brexit though. Just 26% of the country wants that. A close deal with the EU will satisfy no one but is probably the best solution. An ideological hard Brexit won't heal the nation's divisions and it could set the Conservative Party back decades.

Re: Brexit
 

Some strange things I've learned from reading the last few pages of . . . dross

*Brexit won more seats than anyone else but lost
*17.4 million people didn't vote for Brexit last night, therefore Remain won
*The EU couldn't care two hoots about the 28 (29) seats won by Brexit, as they'll make no difference to anything
*There will be a second referendum because nutcases on Twitter want one
*People in NE Lincolnshire have a brilliant sense of humour (can't give you more rep yet) ;)

. . . at least there was no mention of Blair :D

Re: Brexit
 

If you compare the UKIP vote of the previous EU election and the referendum result afterwards, against the recent combined Brexit and UKIP vote, then the inference could be that the Leave vote in a referendum is higher than before.

Re: Brexit
 

Well, given that the EU won’t back down on the backstop, there’s not a lot of choice other than to leave without a deal.

Re: Brexit
 

From the man himself:

Conservatives unlikely to deliver on Brexit by October 31.

Nigel Farage.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...0807b455f89351

Re: Brexit
 

Looking like Remain unless the Parliamentry maths changes. Even Nigel Farage acknowledges we will still be in the EU come November.

Re: Brexit
 

One can only assume Farage is a liar, as opposed to offering objective political analysis.

Re: Brexit
 

and there's me thinking that "offering objective political analysis" was just a fancy political term for telling lies :D

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t think anyone can speculate on anything until the new PM is announced.

So I’ll probably have a Brexit holiday until then.

Re: Brexit
 

Surprise surprise labour is back pedalling and looking at backing another vote. So time old Steptoe quit.

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------

I will never vote labour again, if I do vote again.

Re: Brexit
 

Can't we drop the "you're lying, no I'm not, yes you are"? It does nothing for the debate and gets us nowhere.

This is all interpretation of the available, incomplete data. Nothing is absolute here ..

Re: Brexit
 

Well Brexit has made me very political so much so, for the first time I joined a political party.

To give a clue it has Brexit in it :D

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

We need to demand the parliements summer recess is cancelled or they are suspended from being a MP and cannot partake in any business for 6 months.

They need to deliver what they said they would do.

Re: Brexit
 

Certainly not while Marxists were in charge, I'd hope!

Re: Brexit
 

Nope I'm done with labour, I could never vote tory as my local MP is not same sex friendly, which would go against my niece, the Lib Dems are a joke run my a senile old fool, Greens want us living in caves.

So Brexit all the way.

Re: Brexit
 

The Lib Dem leader is changing and the caves the Greens have picked out for us are awfully nice.

Re: Brexit
 

Is your Brexit MEP same-sex friendly? At best they'll be agnostic.

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

Second vote looking far more likely following Jeremy Corbyn's endorsement.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-voter-exodus

Re: Brexit
 

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has refused to explicitly back the idea of another referendum - despite increasing calls from within his party to do so.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48419144

and the game continues :p:

Re: Brexit
 

And leave would win again quite comfortably, like it did last night. See vote tally image I posted earlier.

Re: Brexit
 

He’s enjoying that tightrope, isn’t he? :D

Corbyn backs referendum on Brexit deal after voter exodus

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-voter-exodus

So vague people see what they want to see.

Edit: missed Andrew’s post but the point stands without the link!

Re: Brexit
 

And goes on and on and on with seemingly no ending in sight...:rolleyes::td:

Re: Brexit
 

One thing forgotten in all the claims about Labour votes, the MEPs elected are ALL pro EU and some were rather vocal about their disapproval of Labours EU manifesto fudge.

Which is why Labour votes should be discounted from either side of the argument. There is no clarity about what those Labour votes were based on.

Re: Brexit
 

Does that make you feel as though you've won something ?

Re: Brexit
 

Does that?

Re: Brexit
 

No, just trying to shove Labour support definitively on to either side of the argument seems pointless with their fence squatting.

Leavers claiming Labour votes = leave support is just as wrong as Remainers also claiming the same.

Re: Brexit
 

Thank you for clarifying your reasoning .

Re: Brexit
 

All of this trying to authoritatively conclude the National opinion from the EP voting is a bit silly. I mean, the Brexit Party only got 5% more of the vote than UKIP did in 2014 yet people are trying to claim a seismic shift .. and all from 37% of the electorate.

Re: Brexit
 

Were the Brexit party dominant in your voting area???

Re: Brexit
 

dominant: having power and influence over others.

Nah ..

Re: Brexit
 

Winning more seats at the EP than their rivals ???

Re: Brexit
 

Turnout was just below 37% in the UK.

South East of England was 39.36% (36.3% in 2014).
West Midlands was 31.1% (32.4% in 2014).
North West was 33.1% (33.3% in 2014).
South Westwas 40.5% (37.4% from 2014).
The Eastern region was 36.4% (36.6% in 2014).
Wales was 37.3% (32% in 2014).

So perhaps over 63% didn't vote as they expect Brexit to actually happen, so why vote for an MEP?

Add that percentage to The Brexit Party vote and there is a landslide for leaving the EU.

Anyone can "play" with the figures, to suit their agenda.

Re: Brexit
 

It was a Seismic shift - it is a new party which is now the largest party sitting in the European Parliament. The mistake you're making is saying it's UKIP, it's not - for a start it has candidates from a whole range of political beliefs, from those on left, to those on right. It also had a diverse range of ethnic candidates, which was far from the case in UKIP.

BP is not UKIP.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Liberal Democrats caught in a lie - they claim now after the vote that Labour is a Remain so they can fudge the argument that Remain won more votes, but they campaigned on a ticket which said a vote for them, is a vote to stop brexit and it said "Conservatives, Labour, Brexit Party and UKIP" is a vote for Brexit.

See the image of the leaflet....

https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1133310925300273152

Re: Brexit
 

Liberal Democrat leaflets are infamous for those kinds of things. The bar graphs which show Lib Dems being closer to whichever party won the previous election than they actually are.

Re: Brexit
 

Ian's not saying the Brexit Party is Ukip.

Basically, Ukip is all but dead (and Change UK for that matter) and Nigel Farage's new vehicle is the Brexit Party. I don't think it's unfair to compare the change in votes for Nigel Farage's old and new parties and to conclude that 5% is not a seismic shift.

Re: Brexit
 

More people signed the Revoke Article 50 petition than voted for Farage. Shows you that you should not get carried away ..

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

Thanks Andrew! Tell you what, let me PM you my replies and you can then post them? Deal :) .. or No Deal?

Re: Brexit
 

Do we get a vote on that? :D :D

Re: Brexit
 

No! You are not eligible :)

Re: Brexit
 

Alastair Campbell 'expelled from Labour' over EU election vote

https://news.sky.com/story/alastair-...pport-11730108

Re: Brexit
 

Utterly pathetic IMO.

Re: Brexit
 

If JC was as quick and as decisive on Brexit and the anti-semitism allegations as he was on this issue, he'd be in No. 10 by now!

Re: Brexit
 

His main issue was not mixing a little anti-semitism in there, then they would take years to ban him!

Re: Brexit
 

I would throw the obnoxious git out of the human race.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

They already have a cleaner mate so i doubt it.

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------

Did that stop your area being represented by the brexit party ?

Re: Brexit
 

They should re-brand as the Momentum Party and be done with it.

Re: Brexit
 

Communist would be more apt. At least that would be transparent.

Re: Brexit
 

Good old George he does not like to keep himself out of the limelight for too long.

The 2nd letter down the page.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/l...-a4152646.html

Re: Brexit
 

I do get worried when I think George is speaking sense ... ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Cannot believe the depths of desperation you will lower yourself too.

Would this be the petition that people admitted to signing more than once, would this be the same petition that was over 11 million signatures short of the actual referendum result?

Re: Brexit
 

It's an interesting idea I've not seen before and one worth repeating:

Re: Brexit
 

Uncomfortable, isn't it? More people signed the petition to end Brexit than voted for the Nigel Farage Party ..

*drops mic*

Re: Brexit
 

Formal title please.

Brexit Party Ltd.

Re: Brexit
 

It's uncomfortable watching you dig yourself into an ever deeper hole:dig:

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...YoiqiLnnEhhFKQ

Re: Brexit
 

Bless

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------

and here lies the core of Farage's fantasy: Article 24 of GATT. If you repeat a falsehood enough times, it starts to become a belief and finally is accepted and promoted as a fact.

Chapter 1 from the Populist Playbook ..

---------- Post added at 17:41 ---------- Previous post was at 17:35 ----------

Party I grant you i.e. a fair share of Clowns and Cake :)

Re: Brexit
 

Haven’t heard from Bercow in a while.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...08ad67f1a82afd