re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Try reading the post rather than something into it that isn't there, unless of course you really do think every single person voting has no disliking of foreigners at all. The post I replied stated a stupid reason for remaining involving chocolate, all I did was cite a stupid reason someone might have for leaving

---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

I think we'll leave to, not massively fussed tbh, I've swayed one side to the other for years

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

well I think it would be overwhelming leave if we did that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think it might be more a case that leave hasn't actually stated a viable time line of events after we leave, their cause could have been given a massive boost if they had done that or at least advertised the fact better if they did.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'll be fine with it as long as there is no big economic hit.

I think Gove and Boris though haven't thought though the ramifications for them if there is. The polls I was referencing earlier didn't say people know there will be a hit but are willing to put up with it, they don't believe it will happen. Not sure how long Prime Minister Boris lasts if isn't as rosy as promised in the aftermath. The anger would be fierce.

Same with Cameron and Remain of course but I suspect he isn't around for long either.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

In other words the mp doctor was right when she said leave were telling out tight lies when she walked out on them

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If anything is going to happen to the rebate it certainly won't be going up. France will veto it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Ok, I'll give it a go.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post35842214

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

well the remain camp rolled out three old hags last night was there a witches convention in town .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Cheers Richard. I've voted.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The inaccuracy of the statement was pointed out to the leave campaign quite some time ago and she went with it for quite some time so although she and others are correct to point that out she's still some size of hypocrite imo

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

Our rebate has been going up for some time now ,it is based on the size of our contribution which as a net contributor goes up and therefore so does the rebate ,i think that the size of our rebate was renegotiated 2007 ?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Saw this on some ones Facebook page today, i am not sure how accurate it is.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I have borrowed that, hope you don't mind.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

According to the 6pm news on BBC 1 labour members are now joining the Leave campaign.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Leave not pretending to have a negotiation timetable in the event we vote out actually makes them more credible to me though I may be in a tiny minority. No one can suggest a timetable because we have no idea how hostile the EU will be or how long they may drag things out it is something that will be out of our control. Given the rhetoric we have had it's safe to say a degree of messing about will be present on the EU side but over what and how long it will be dragged out is anyone's guess.

I think they will try to influence other countries not to have a similar membership vote by treating the uk as harshly as they can and I think it will backfire and actually Stoke the fires of dissent. I still believe if we do vote out the EU is finished we would be the first but not the last and it will be a case of when the whole things collapses not if.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I see Labour is so worried about their lack of 'presence' when it comes to this debate that the order has gone out to turn the issue into a party political anti-Tory argument in order to try to galvanise their core vote to tick to remain box. You really have to wonder about the ineffectual leadership of the opposition that, when it comes to a matter of such huge importance, even their own voters don't really know what they stand for.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36496288

Of course Corbyn's so confused about the EU his website was edited a few months ago to remove articles critical of it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Not at all :tu:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Lets get an EU grant for every company in the UK and move every ruddy thing to the continent. VOTE OUT...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You don't have to wonder. Corbyn is a horrible politician and worse, as someone put it today, he is ideologically opposed to getting better because that would be 'politics'. Did you see that Vice documentry on him? If not you should. Sums up the hubris, self-obsession and incompetence.

Blair put it best the other day:

Labour have given up the politics of power and instead have picked up the placards.

Also Corbyn wants to Leave the EU. If he took a more senior role in the campaign it would be to undermine it.

I miss Ed Miliband. :dozey:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You are spot on with this. You would have thought that after the vote for the wrong Millband you would get it right but they got it even more wrong! The guy doesn't really know what his job is .. so what hope do the wider electorate have?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

http://news.sky.com/story/1710094/sc...-brexitGermany has warned the UK it will not have access to the single market if it votes to leave the European Union on 23 June.


German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said a relationship similar to that enjoyed by Norway and Switzerland "won't work" for the UK and that "In is in. Out is out".


Found it funny to be honest me thinks Europe is scared of what may come out of this with the other nations

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

This is what Leave want. Gove has already said that the single-market is not what they want, that Norway isn't what they want and there is no way Leave will do any deal on freedom of movement. It's going to be presented and threat but this is right: No EEA deal, no freedom of movement and no single market.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Enjoyed by norway lol and no one would get a deal like Switzerland, it was a sop because they voted against joining by .1 of a percent iirc, you'll have to do better if you want to scare anyone wolfie

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I don't think Leave will contest this. It's largely in line with their own statements and it stops the idea of MPs trying to rig it after a Leave vote to keep us in EEA.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You think having no plan makes them more credible, it's an interesting stance sadly though I believe you are on a minority of one believing it though. The time table has an end, 2 years unless we convince everyone to give us an extention, if we can't that's it we're gone regardless of what stage in negotiations we're at so with that in mind I'd have like to have heard a rough guide on where they'd like negotiations to be at certain stages and what they plan to do if we're not there. Or is their plan to get us out and hang the consequences, someone else can worry about that and clean up the mess

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Gove was talking about still doing trade with the EU perhaps not as a single market but it seems the EU is saying no trade at all or that is the way I read the article

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I actually agree with wolfie, in or out, EEA is the worst of both worlds

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You misread it...

The first line of the article states

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Frankly I think we need to be out of the single market. Being in it is a source of so much burdensome regulation, much of it falling on the 60% of British economic activity that is entirely domestic and doesn't require access to it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Given the current status of the CF poll on EU membership I'm wondering how long it'll be before some scaremongering 'remainer' or other will start bombarding 'admin' with dire warnings about the threat to this forum if we leave the EU. :D

If the Germans want us to stay in the EU I'm not certain threats/warnings emanating from Berlin are the best way to ensure that happens, even if they're sincerely held.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well a new poll has Leave 10% ahead so it's not going to be long before we find out if it was scaremongering or not. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7075131.html

(10% by the way is far than can be made up with status-quo effects)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm not a great believer in polls so I'll be waiting for the official result before I believe anything. I won't be celebrating if we do leave, I'll be wondering why the EU couldn't see sense and reform itself into what it should have been. Part of me still thinks they might if the shock of us leaving focuses a few minds but I won't be putting money on that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Because the movers behind the EU have never had any other plan, other than a Federal states of Europe. There is no other version of the EU as far as they are concerned.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I am still well clear of the internet win or lose. :D

I think Leave is going to win and have done for a few days now. The fact the economic argument hasn't convinced people and there is huge Brexit support in Labour heartlands has done that for me.

If I was a Leave supporter I would be worried about what happens next. There will be a attempt to stop it happening. I think via a General Election where Remain is put on the ballot.

I wonder what will happen to the Tories too. The problem for a victory for Leave as far as Boris is concerned (I think Gove is honest in his desire to Leave) is that this anti-elitism, anti-politics, wave he is surfing will claim him eventually too. If we Leave would he really want to be the one in charge of a fractious Tory party and have to get the deals he has said we would get? I have a feeling some sacrificial lamb will become Tory leader after Cameron in that case.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It wouldn't surprise me at all. The EU has form on not accepting results they don't like and if enough of the movers and shakers on both sides of the Channel get together maybe they will seek to move the goalposts. It's going to be messy within HMG and Labour too - a lot's been said and done which isn't soon going to be forgotten.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I never said there was no plan I said them not pretending to have a plan on negotiations makes me feel they are more credible rather then them coming out with some announced plan that can have no basis in fact. Two years is the maximum at the moment but if the uk votes out a few things will be changing in the EU they won't have a choice and if the leave vote is not significantly high the EU may decide it can drag things out in the hope of a way to reverse the referendum.

Reality is no one has a clue it's all utter guesswork as nothing like this has happened before anyone talking in absolute terms at the minute highlights themselves as a liar.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm actually 70% sure that we'll remain.

That said, the odds on Brexit are shortening.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Newsflash Rizzy they are liars, everyone involved in this from the start is nothing more than an absolute liar and
the two years only start once we give the EU notice of our intention to quit, that process can be dragged out a few months at least, then the click starts ticking on the two year process.

---------- Post added 11-06-2016 at 00:00 ---------- Previous post was 10-06-2016 at 23:57 ----------

Everyone I know from all walks of life and income from various parts of the country are all voting leave, I'm the only one who is in any doubt

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Most people I know are voting remain, I'm an anomaly. Swings, roundabouts.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Everyone that I know in my part of London are firmly in the Brexit camp, but London as a whole ismainly pro-EU.

---------- Post added at 01:39 ---------- Previous post was at 01:37 ----------

Say what you're doubts are and perhaps someone can alleviate them for you.:)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think most of us on here are so biased towards our own views that we are not the best people to help swing an undecided person and they would be far better off researching the areas of concern for themselves and making a personal decision. I'm having to be very careful when discussing this with my daughter as I want her to make her own choice for her own reasons but she hasn't been very interested in politics until now and I worry my bias is coming out in how I describe certain aspects to her and wish I was better able to remove my personal views from my explanations. It's a lot harder to do then I thought it would be and as I'd managed to do it in terms of religion I was perhaps a little overconfident in thinking I could do it as easily with this issue.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's unlikely, I've literally flip flopped on this for years, ten years ago I was one of the few on here arguing against the EU, then for a while I was very pro eu and now the times coming to decide I've characteristically changed my mind and side several times, at the moment I'm probably in the remain camp. I wouldn't be shocked if I didn't remain here though.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That would not be in their best interests.

---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 ----------

Now how do they know that? Has there been a discussion about what would happen and what the UK will and won't get, and has there been a vote in the EU that we don't know about?

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------

Ah! Music to my ears. If this is the trend then Project fear is dead!

---------- Post added at 08:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 ----------

God I'll be in the pub celebration if we leave. I never wanted any part of it in the first place and voted against in 1975. It was never going to work for us and it never will.

---------- Post added at 08:07 ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 ----------

I think you'll find it depends or what area you live in as to the answer you'll get from people and their standards of living.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's very simple - there is a Single Market Agreement, and if you don't sign up to it under agreed terms (which The Gover has said Leave shouldn't do), you don't have access to the Single Market...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Fair enough. Do we really want it? It only seems to work one way. We export mort to them than they do to us. Can't remember the exact figure the EU export to us but it's not bank breaking is it? It can be more than made up by trading with countries we don't trade with now.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

i'm 100% sure there will be cheating from Dodgy Dave and his desperateers .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

What cheating would that be then :rolleyes:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Lots of industries work across borders. It's not just a case of import/export.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Arise Sir Remain-backer! Fury as Cameron accused of handing gongs to pro EU candidates

DAVID Cameron and George Osborne were accused tonight of abusing their power by rewarding pro-European Union backers with honours.

Brexit campaigners said the appearance of leading Remain figures on the Queen’s Birthday Honours List marked “a new low”.

Among those getting a CBE – “for services to the food industry and charity” – is Innocent Drinks cofounder Richard Reed, the deputy chairman of the Britain Stronger in Europe official Remain campaign.

John Armitage, founder of hedge fund Egerton Capital, who is believed to have donated cash to the In campaign, also gets a CBE.

Gisele Stuart, Vote Leave chairman and Labour MP, said: “David Cameron and George Osborne have used every single ounce of their power to try to bully and frighten the British people into backing their campaign to keep us in the EU. Abusing our honours system to reward campaign cronies and donors is a new low.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-scoop-honours

Arise the Knights of Remain! PM accused of 'borderline corruption' and tainting the Queen's Birthday Honours by dishing out gongs to at least 20 pro-EU bosses
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...EU-bosses.html

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Now you know how we felt in the Scottish referendum. I seem to remember Dodgy Dave and Co. saying we won't interfere in the referendum it's up to the Scottish people then when it looked like Independence might win there were all up there like flies round excrement interfering and up to their dodgy tricks. The things remain are saying now are exactly what they were saying in the Scottish referendum. Remember too that some of these Politicians are now on the leave side saying exactly the opposite. I have to ask why was it bad for Scotland to leave the Union but not for the Union to leave the EU under the same circumstances. It didn't change my vote on the EU but it's worth thinking about if you are undecided.

---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

I understand. Some may relocate but others will come to the UK so in the end you won't lose anything in the end.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Not the same thing at all.

Scotland chose to form the UK with England and long before political union, the Crowns of the two countries were united. We have been a united country for 300+ years. To tear that up would be disastrous.

No one has chosen to join the United States of Europe, only to join a trading bloc. We're not a united country with Europe.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

its like joining the cooperative society -only to find out you've signed away sovereignty of your nation .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The Leave side is acting like the Nats in the Scottish Referendum too though. Warnings of the effect on the economy are 'scaremongering' and scepticism of the vision of Leave (£350 million extra on the NHS, more jobs, less taxes, less VAT) is 'talking Britain down'.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The EU exports 16% of their goods and services to us, we export 44% of our goods and services to them.

https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/

https://fullfact.org/europe/ask-full-fact-uks-trade-eu/

Trade agreements cover exports as well as imports, so the benefits of a single market covers both...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The EU exports 16% of their goods and services to us, we export 44% of our goods and services to them.

https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/

https://fullfact.org/europe/ask-full-fact-uks-trade-eu/

Trade agreements cover exports as well as imports, so the benefits of a single market covers both...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm broadly pro Europe and on many things I would favour closer ties, but some things have gone too far and that's why I vote Brexit.

Here are the pros and cons, as I see them, of voting leave:

Pros:

Regain border control and control numbers of immigrants.
Regain national sovereignty as a whole and only elected UK MPs make law and UK judges are the only ones to arbitrate our laws.

Stay out of the Euro and the likely collapse that will occur of the currency when euro countries opt for "ever closer union," which they have to do.

Stay out of the significant risks to Europe when EU countries start merging together. Who really believes that an Italian is like a Estonian, or a Hungarian like a Swede?

Not to be controlled by Germany. We fought and won two world wars against them to prevent that. Orders do not come from Brussels, but Berlin.

Have trade agreements with whomever we want. Can't do that being in the EU.

Risks:

On day of Brexit, the value of our currency will likely fall by a third. Our stockmarket will crash and this could cause a global meltdown. I believe this will happen, it will be painful, but it won't last forever. But whether the country wants another recession for several years is another matter.

No guarantee of access to the Single Market.

Possible loss of major City firms from London as the big banks and others relocate to the EU.

The EU decide to go to "war" with us as a warning to other countries thinking of leaving the EU and make our lives as difficult as possible.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

what like wanting control of their own destiny

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

And like Scotland the UK will find itself limited by global markets and world events even if we left.

It's like the idea that all these wages are going to go up if we leave because of the fall in the labour supply but that assumes the pressure on wages entirely made up of only domestic concerns and that we don't compete in a global marketplace.

A lot of the arguments seem to say we'll be more competitive, have higher wages and leave the single market all at the same time. Hell let's chuck tariffs onto there as well, we'll deal with that too.

A few pages ago there was a long Facebook post largely complaining that big companies brought other companies as if this wouldn't happen post-Brexit. Leave are tapping into an anti-capitalist, anti-corporate and anti-establish mood but their being lead largely by passionate fans of the free market.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If you say so. Chose to join. The English starved the Scots into it by refusing to allow trade with the colonies. There was no choice in the matter at all. However that's a different subject. The point I was making was that it is fine for one but not for the other. The economic threats, if you believe remain are the same. Trade with the EU is the same. Relocation of companies is the same. The arguments they are using are word for word the ones they used in the Scottish referendum.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

On that note...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robi..._10391770.html

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Exactly. The same arguments.

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

What benefits. Work out the exports then the cost of being in the EU and see if it's worth it. Do we make a lot more in exports-imports compared to the cost of being in the EU. What Benefits?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I honestly can't see the EU slapping high tariffs on us as we would do the same to them so it would be of no use to them.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think the tariffs on 44% of exports would have more effect than tariffs on 16% of exports, don't you?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If I could do the math on this I would.

Exports revenue minus imports costs then take that from the cost of being in the EU. Maths was never my strong point. Is the final figure worth the price of being in the EU?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well that's it isn't it. Maybe, maybe not. It's the fact that the Leave campaign are denying there is a cost at all, maybe even we'll end up ahead and according to the polls the public agree.

The thing is, unlike Scotland, it looks like Leave will win and their claims are about to be tested on that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It all depends what the underlying monetary values are. If in monetary terms the value of our imports are 3 or more times the value of our exports then the percentages are meaningless poppycock designed to do nothing more than cloud the real issue (not sure of the monetary values so could well be spouting rubbish).

Cheers

Grim

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes I agree there but I'm set in my ways where the EU is concerned. Never wanted it and never will no matter what form it takes. But it's interesting listening to others air their views on the EU. Some agree with me some have different reasons and others silly reasons for leaving. However, I like listening to both sides and agree with some of what both sides say. It's all right for me I know my position and it will never change and now that I've voted I can listen to others.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well you can bet that if leave does win there'll be all sorts of pressure to try to negate or modify the outcome (which may not necessarily be a bad thing). If, on the other hand, we stay in there's no way we're going to be another shot at this, short of there being some sort of landmark legal judgement which forces a re-run of the vote for some reason.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

From what I've seen wherever I go on the net there seems to be an overwhelming majority for leave. If the real poll reflects this, it could be 60% Leave and 40% Remain.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Beware of unweighted samples (which is what the Internet is). You just can't take any straw poll as an indicator of the actual outcome.

We had Yessers here in Scotland in 2014 who were absolutely convinced they were on for a 75-25 victory based on their own doorstep canvassing, and to this day some of them are convinced the actual outcome was rigged because it differed so widely from their own sample. They were blinded to their own shortcomings.

Don't be blind - this one is genuinely impossible to call. There's no precedent. Just get out and vote on the day and make sure your friends do too (and be sure to tell them why you're voting leave).

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Its a very different subject, I thought the Scots were starving due to the disastrous darian scheme and thought better of being the noisy neighbour due to the Duke of Marlborough and his military prowess around that time.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Firstly, on the Act Of Union, yes Scots did choose to join. The Scots barons' seals are on the Union document. You can go on about history all you like, but by then, whether right or wrong, English (Anglo/Saxon) culture was dominate on the island and Celts culture was on the margins.

The Act of Union didn't happen just happen because the Scottish Lords lost the colonies it was because, for all intents and purposes, they were English and the culture on the island had unified.

We have been a unified country for over 300 years and our culture and language became one long before that. To rip all that up with Scotland separating cannot in any way be compared to leaving the EU.

THe EU is trying to merge very different peoples and cultures together, in can only end one way. Badly.

I cannot see how in anytime in the near future British people can be the same as Czechs, Lativans or any one else. On this island we did unify and Scots did choose. It was originally the English who were luke warm on the idea, can't think why....

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Indeed that was part of it. and the well to do were sneaking in under cover of darkness to sign away Scotland's Sovereignty. As Burns said:

Bought and sold for English Gold.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------

Perhaps I should have bean clearer and said I've been on several forums where it's overwhelmingly for leave

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You are bringing facts to a bar room fig...err debate.:D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Brexit odds appear to have changed from about 4:1 a couple of weeks ago to 2:1 now.

Interesting.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

They've gone from about 75%-80% to 70% on here (for Remain): http://politicalodds.bet/eu-referendum

Money isn't following the polls yet but there will be two more tonight.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

A group of 18 year old said they will vote to stay for a stupid reason.

"There mobile roaming phone bill will go up when they go abroad"

Great to see they've got their priorities right :mad:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Gen Snowflake... God help the next one.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Remember that Leavers don't need "experts" ..

Also, this fact seems inconveniently at odds with "taking control" mantra but then what do facts have to do with anything?

This poll shows that the perception of the Brexit "facts" seems to differ from reality:

EU referendum: British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

As an as yet undecided voter, i've been doing some research on the internet today to help me decide.

The general consensus is that neither the remain or leave campaigners can accurately predict what will happen for either scenario.

This blog seems to sum things up and doesn't attempt to influence people either way:

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/20...eu-referendum/

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Martin Lewis (mse head honcho), has come out for Remain. Maybe he's read his own blog and come to the logical conclusion ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Majority of voters would back Norway-style deal: https://twitter.com/Pete_Spence/stat...22463659298816

Don't believe it. Migration is the most popular reason to vote Leave. Mental if they went with the Norway option in the end. I suspect some in Leave like the idea because it does reduce the laws from the EU.

Although looking at the breakdown it would be largely Remain voters in favour.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That is because no one can say what will happen. Those who vote to stay think it's a vote for the status quo when that is not the case - a case of better the Devil you know. A vote to remain in my opinion would give the EU the green light to carry on regardless imposing stupid laws that don't really apply to the UK but have to be observes nonetheless. Those who vote to leave know it won't be a case of the status quo and want no part of an eventual EU Super State. We can see where the EU is headed. With closer political and monetary integration it's only a matter of time before the UK have to join in or be left out in the cold. Also, with more countries joining the EU, (forget Turkey, they won't be joining in our lifetime), this will mean more migrants coming into Britain.

This is just my feeling but I hope you consider it before making your decision.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Cameron has finally decided to tackle the threat of pensioners voting out by threatening their state pensions .In order to close the financial black hole created by leaving he would have to look at cutting pensions

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...s-dear-if-fun/

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

And I thought he couldn't stoop any lower.....:rolleyes:

He is now officially worse than blair.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Like pensions would be cut anyway. They would triple tuition fees, remove all benefits for the under 35s or introduce a youth tax before they'll touch pensioners' bus passes let alone pensions.

He is right that if there was a cost to leaving that would be made up somewhere but it is nothing but a lie that it would be a cost that the biggest voting bloc in the country would have to pay.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well lets threaten them by kicking them out.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

well to be fair he hasn't attacked babies yet ,as far as i can see its do as i say or i will shoot the family puppy politics i think an attack on pensioners will see the end of his career .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Watching him on Andrew Marr this morning i got the impression of veiled threats .He would punish people if we voted out by attacking their finances regardless of what actually happens to our economy

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

i also got that impression .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I believe there is bad news to come re pensions, benefits, taxes etc. whatever we do. We're far from out of the hole and someone's going to have to pay for all the chicanery, spending and borrowing done in the lead up to the crisis and thereafter.

Maybe HMG quite likes the idea of having someone else to blame (i.e. the EU) when things get really tough... :shrug:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It won't be pensions that will have to pay.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It will sooner or later but they may be the last to feel the pressure. There's really not much scope to take much from people reliant on the state pension but those who've retired early on very generous public sector pensions will feel the pressure I'm sure. Nothing's safe anymore.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

According to Cameron in the Express today we are nearing the end of austerity ,everything is looking rosy ,which is not the impression i got at the last budget

So is this statement from today another veiled threat .....stay in Europe of i will force more austerity on you

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If Cameron's argument is that the economy will be hit then there would be a cost to that. The economy does actually have implications for day to day life. Especially if we hit recession.

I do think the pension threat won't happen though. The government wouldn't dare.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Does anyone love Dave any longer? The orange face paint and brill creamed hair must be a turn on for someone? Maybe Miss Piggy?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I heard him on Andrew Marr and he was spouting verbal diahorrea as usual. He can't interfere or cut them as he promised to look after them as part of his election manifesto.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Threatening pensions would be electoral suicide. Just another lie/bluff by an increasingly desperate stay campaign.

Dave is toast whatever the result is.:)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

He promised a lot of stuff as part of his manifesto....

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Rather than spouting bolleaux about how bad it might be outside the eu, has there been ANY statement about how good it will be to stay in the eu?

Anything?

Anywhere?