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-   -   Will Scotland Leave the UK? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33684496)

Hom3r 22-01-2019 20:14
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
The trouble NS wants independance fro the UK and to be in the EU.


Trouble is she cannot have both.

Even if we voted to remain and she got her independace she would also be leaving the EU, and would have to apply to join the EU, and they don't have the money to be in the EU.

Damien 22-01-2019 20:35
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35980438)
The trouble NS wants independance fro the UK and to be in the EU.


Trouble is she cannot have both.

Even if we voted to remain and she got her independace she would also be leaving the EU, and would have to apply to join the EU, and they don't have the money to be in the EU.
There are far poorer countries in the EU than Scotland.

nomadking 22-01-2019 21:24
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35980440)
There are far poorer countries in the EU than Scotland.
But not with an 8% deficit(that includes oil revenues). It has to be below 3% before any process can start.

Guardian.
Quote:
The latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) data for Scotland shows that for 2017-18 overall state spending hit £73.4bn compared to tax income of just under £60bn, including oil revenues. That left a deficit for the year of £13.4bn, compared with £13.5bn the year before. Scotland’s deficit was equivalent to 7.9% of GDP, while for the UK as a whole it was 1.9%.

Damien 22-01-2019 22:35
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Wow. I hadn't realised their deficit was quite that bad.

weenie 22-01-2019 22:56
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35980437)
I hope we never become Independent in Scotland , Nicola and her clan are bad enough to put up with as it is, she would love to treat us like robots, she loves dictating to us all the time, She does not speak for the whole of Scotland
:clap::clap::clap: +1 and well said nash :clap::clap::clap:

Chris 22-01-2019 23:05
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35980448)
Wow. I hadn't realised their deficit was quite that bad.
As part of the U.K. it doesn’t have to be good. Pooling and sharing ... what every nation state does. Wealth is transferred from rich areas to poor ones. What a lot of Nats haven’t realised is that as an independent state, rather than as a nation that is a constituent part of a larger state, pooling and sharing occurs only within its own borders and out of its own resources.

Scotland is still a top 20 economy in world terms, but it has a top 5 expenditure. Living within its means would prove painful, and not just for the first few years. This is something the Nats have worked very hard to obfuscate but, largely since 2014, the truth is now quite widely understood amongst Scottish voters and one of the reasons Sturgeon hasn’t gone hell for leather after another referendum is that she knows a lot of work must first be done on building an economic case that sounds credible.

RichardCoulter 22-01-2019 23:45
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
So, even if the UK left the EU and Scotland became independent, it looks like they wouldn't be able to rejoin the EU until they reduced their debt.

Presumably we joined the EU as the UK and not as the seperate countries??

Chris 22-01-2019 23:49
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Correct - only the United Kingdom has the right to enter in to international treaties. Scotland is not recognised as a nation state at the UN or anywhere else (nor is England for that matter).

Hugh 22-01-2019 23:55
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980452)
As part of the U.K. it doesn’t have to be good. Pooling and sharing ... what every nation state does. Wealth is transferred from rich areas to poor ones. What a lot of Nats haven’t realised is that as an independent state, rather than as a nation that is a constituent part of a larger state, pooling and sharing occurs only within its own borders and out of its own resources.

Scotland is still a top 20 economy in world terms, but it has a top 5 expenditure. Living within its means would prove painful, and not just for the first few years. This is something the Nats have worked very hard to obfuscate but, largely since 2014, the truth is now quite widely understood amongst Scottish voters and one of the reasons Sturgeon hasn’t gone hell for leather after another referendum is that she knows a lot of work must first be done on building an economic case that sounds credible.
Isn’t that also what the EU does?

nomadking 23-01-2019 00:00
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Scotland has it's own tax raising powers and as such should be held responsible for it's own over-spending.

techguyone 23-01-2019 07:26
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980452)
As part of the U.K. it doesn’t have to be good. Pooling and sharing ... what every nation state does. Wealth is transferred from rich areas to poor ones. What a lot of Nats haven’t realised is that as an independent state, rather than as a nation that is a constituent part of a larger state, pooling and sharing occurs only within its own borders and out of its own resources.

Scotland is still a top 20 economy in world terms, but it has a top 5 expenditure. Living within its means would prove painful, and not just for the first few years. This is something the Nats have worked very hard to obfuscate but, largely since 2014, the truth is now quite widely understood amongst Scottish voters and one of the reasons Sturgeon hasn’t gone hell for leather after another referendum is that she knows a lot of work must first be done on building an economic case that sounds credible.

I wish someone would enlighten my FiL it's irritating when he goes on about how great the SNP are and how 'the tories' (he says that a lot) are responsible for ALL the worlds ills - going back to Roman times.

Sadly there's no reasoning with him.

OLD BOY 23-01-2019 08:08
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980455)
Isn’t that also what the EU does?
Yes, and we are one of the few net contributors to the EU budget.

Whereas, Scotland is dependent on wealth from the rest of the UK. This fact is most probably the main reason why the SNP is so hell bent on staying in the EU.

Chris 23-01-2019 11:42
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980455)
Isn’t that also what the EU does?
Not really.

The EU budget is small compared to a full national one, and the EU essentially has no direct tax raising power (albeit it automatically receives a slice of VAT receipts).

EU funds tend to be focused on strategic projects like infrastructure or other economic development. Such projects make a useful contribution to the places where they are located but they are nothing like the scale of wealth transfer that ensures a more-or-less uniform level of health, education and social service provision within a nation state.

The EU even lacks the basic mechanisms to prevent uneven currency accumulation within the Eurozone, both contributing to the recent crisis and hampering the solution. In the USA, which is amongst other things a single Dollar currency zone, around 60% of tax is collected at the Federal level. This helps ensure poor Louisiana is still recognisably in the same nation state as California, which even as a fully independent state would still have a G7 economy.

SilverLady 23-01-2019 13:44
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I wish people would stop saying that 62% of Scottish people voted to remain in Europe. It is only 62% of Scottish people WHO VOTED chose to remain.

The actual turnout was a low 67% which means that of the Scottish electorate, 42% voted to remain, 25% voted to leave and 33% had no opinion either way.

Nicola knows that there is a very vocal minority shouting for Independence and if another Scottish Independence is called, the silent majority might turn out to vote, a risk she can't take.

Hugh 23-01-2019 15:17
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverLady (Post 35980491)
I wish people would stop saying that 62% of Scottish people voted to remain in Europe. It is only 62% of Scottish people WHO VOTED chose to remain.

The actual turnout was a low 67% which means that of the Scottish electorate, 42% voted to remain, 25% voted to leave and 33% had no opinion either way.

Nicola knows that there is a very vocal minority shouting for Independence and if another Scottish Independence is called, the silent majority might turn out to vote, a risk she can't take.
According to that logic, in the UK, since 52% of 72% voted to Leave, only 37.4% voted to Leave... ;)

Carth 23-01-2019 15:42
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980498)
According to that logic, in the UK, since 52% of 72% voted to Leave, only 37.4% voted to Leave... ;)
gosh darn it Hugh, I'm no good with statistics (although I do know 5 out of 10 is 50%, and 90% of cats 'that expressed a preference' would rather eat Whiskas than any other cat food) . . but you got me thinking about the % of voters that placed the last two Governments into power :D

how low was it, if you can do a quickie? ;)

Hugh 23-01-2019 17:11
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I don’t agree with the logic, because if you don’t vote, you don’t count - I was just pointing out the flaw, in my eyes, of following that line of thought...

However, it will be amusing that if we have a General Election this year (as is looking more and more likely), it will be ‘democratic’ to have had 4 elections in 9 years, but if we had a 2nd referendum (the 2nd in 3 years), that would be ‘undemocratic"...

Paul 23-01-2019 19:05
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Having General Elections is the normal process.
Having a second referendum because you didnt like the result of the first one is not.

:)

Hugh 23-01-2019 19:15
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Especially ‘advisory’ ones... ;-)

Chris 23-01-2019 19:49
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35980528)
Especially ‘advisory’ ones... ;-)
A referendum is always advisory in our constitution, even if it’s set up to automatically trigger legislation to come in to effect (which this one wasn’t), because Parliament can’t bind its successors and a future Parliament can always repeal something done by a predecessor. Referendums lean on precedent for their authority, which in the few cases they have been used in our constitution, means that Parliament enacts the result of the referendum (or does not, in the case of status quo).

It is undemocratic to hold a second referendum because it contravenes both precedent and the specific undertaking that the result would be enacted. It undermines public trust in the process and automatically dilutes the authority of any future referendum result, on whatever issue.*

It is not undemocratic to hold repeated general elections because that is the customary means (established by centuries of precedent) by which our constitution deals with a situation where a government cannot get its business through Parliament.

* To drag this back on topic, Sturgeon is playing a very risky hand by voicing support for a second referendum. If she ever manages to win one in Scotland, her words will return to haunt the entire Nat movement.

nomadking 23-01-2019 20:12
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980532)
A referendum is always advisory in our constitution, even if it’s set up to automatically trigger legislation to come in to effect (which this one wasn’t), because Parliament can’t bind its successors and a future Parliament can always repeal something done by a predecessor. Referendums lean on precedent for their authority, which in the few cases they have been used in our constitution, means that Parliament enacts the result of the referendum (or does not, in the case of status quo).
That's just it, with constitutional matters such as devolved Parliaments and supranational agreements such as EU treaties and rules, Parliament cannot undo things.

Mr K 23-01-2019 20:16
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980532)
A referendum is always advisory in our constitution, even if it’s set up to automatically trigger legislation to come in to effect (which this one wasn’t), because Parliament can’t bind its successors and a future Parliament can always repeal something done by a predecessor. Referendums lean on precedent for their authority, which in the few cases they have been used in our constitution, means that Parliament enacts the result of the referendum (or does not, in the case of status quo).

It is undemocratic to hold a second referendum because it contravenes both precedent and the specific undertaking that the result would be enacted. It undermines public trust in the process and automatically dilutes the authority of any future referendum result, on whatever issue.*

It is not undemocratic to hold repeated general elections because that is the customary means (established by centuries of precedent) by which our constitution deals with a situation where a government cannot get its business through Parliament.

* To drag this back on topic, Sturgeon is playing a very risky hand by voicing support for a second referendum. If she ever manages to win one in Scotland, her words will return to haunt the entire Nat movement.
What if the question is different ? i.e accept or reject a proposed deal ?

As for Scotland, it's just a matter of time. Brexit probably brings the timetable forward.

Chris 23-01-2019 20:25
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35980534)
That's just it, with constitutional matters such as devolved Parliaments and supranational agreements such as EU treaties and rules, Parliament cannot undo things.
There is a subtle but important difference between Parliament’s de jure power and its de facto power to act in these circumstances. Parliament is sovereign and has always retained the right to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 - that’s its de jure, legal power - however, that piece of legislation enabled such a complex web of regulations and international obligations to develop that in reality, its de facto power was hopelessly compromised. The severe complexity of the last 2 years negotiations illustrates that.

And, to drag this back on topic, any SNP numpty who tries repeating the claim Salmond made in 2013, that Scottish independence could be achieved 18 months after a referendum win, would get laughed out of the park.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35980535)
What if the question is different ? i.e accept or reject a proposed deal ?

As for Scotland, it's just a matter of time. Brexit probably brings the timetable forward.
It really doesn’t - as I’ve said before, people outside Scotland tend to misread our politics, and usually assume underlying nationalist sentiment is stronger than it is.

2014’s 45% yes was delivered on the back of ridiculous, extravagant promises to the urban poor of greater Glasgow and Dundee. That ruse won’t work a second time. Nor will the breezy claim that exit negotiations will be painless and concluded in 18 months. And the No campaign claim that Scotland would be isolated and outside of the EU is now demonstrably true.

Brexit gets about two thirds of Nats riled up; the other third, sensibly, recognise that EU membership is incompatible with national sovereignty and have been Leavers for decades. Either way, the messy truth of Brexit will kill off any hope of the SNP winning a referendum in this decade or the next.

Mr K 23-01-2019 20:33
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
If people aren't happy with 'their lot', they vote for change regardless of what it is, or if its worse e.g Brexit !

Guess it depends whether the Scots are happy. In my experience they usually aren't (unless they've had a drink ;) )
Let's face it, being ruled by a Tory govt. when they are mostly nationalist/labour is going to lead to discontent. As is being forced into Brexit, when they voted to Remain.

Chris 23-01-2019 20:36
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
There was a Tory prime minister in 2014. ;)

The Tories are the main opposition at Holyrood and they unseated a couple of dozen Nats, including Salmond and Robertson, at the last Westminster election.

nomadking 23-01-2019 20:40
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
If Parliament really has power over EU directives, then they could alter their application in parts even if they can't overturn the whole thing. IF the UK Parliament could do that, then almost certainly other EU countries would do that. They can't and don't, therefore we can't.



A referendum should be seen as giving a "directed verdict" to Parliament, just as it's normal use where a Judge instructs a jury, but it is the jury that still has to formally issue the verdict.

RichardCoulter 23-01-2019 22:17
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980538)
There is a subtle but important difference between Parliament’s de jure power and its de facto power to act in these circumstances. Parliament is sovereign and has always retained the right to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 - that’s its de jure, legal power - however, that piece of legislation enabled such a complex web of regulations and international obligations to develop that in reality, its de facto power was hopelessly compromised. The severe complexity of the last 2 years negotiations illustrates that.

And, to drag this back on topic, any SNP numpty who tries repeating the claim Salmond made in 2013, that Scottish independence could be achieved 18 months after a referendum win, would get laughed out of the park.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------



It really doesn’t - as I’ve said before, people outside Scotland tend to misread our politics, and usually assume underlying nationalist sentiment is stronger than it is.

2014’s 45% yes was delivered on the back of ridiculous, extravagant promises to the urban poor of greater Glasgow and Dundee. That ruse won’t work a second time. Nor will the breezy claim that exit negotiations will be painless and concluded in 18 months. And the No campaign claim that Scotland would be isolated and outside of the EU is now demonstrably true.

Brexit gets about two thirds of Nats riled up; the other third, sensibly, recognise that EU membership is incompatible with national sovereignty and have been Leavers for decades. Either way, the messy truth of Brexit will kill off any hope of the SNP winning a referendum in this decade or the next.
It's an interesting point you make about uncoupling Scotland from the UK; Brexit has shown how complicated these things actually are in reality.

I've heard one or two people say that they are leavers at heart, but they essentially believe that we are now so ingrained into the EU that it will be impossible to leave (at least completely). And Scotland has been part of the UK prior to 1972!

Hugh 24-01-2019 09:35
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35980545)
If Parliament really has power over EU directives, then they could alter their application in parts even if they can't overturn the whole thing. IF the UK Parliament could do that, then almost certainly other EU countries would do that. They can't and don't, therefore we can't.



A referendum should be seen as giving a "directed verdict" to Parliament, just as it's normal use where a Judge instructs a jury, but it is the jury that still has to formally issue the verdict.
You are conflating two completely separate things to support your proposition - nice try, though...

The voters cannot ‘direct’ Parliament - that is not how our Parliamentary Democracy works.

papa smurf 24-01-2019 09:37
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Salmond has been arrested and charged



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747



https://news.sky.com/story/alex-salm...arged-11616043

Chris 24-01-2019 10:40
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Oh happy day.

Even if nothing comes of it, a photo of him without that smug half-smile on his treacherous face is worth its weight in gold.

Mr K 24-01-2019 10:57
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980584)
Oh happy day.

Even if nothing comes of it, a photo of him without that smug half-smile on his treacherous face is worth its weight in gold.
Maybe we should wait until he's found guilty of anything, old fashioned I know....

Chris 24-01-2019 10:59
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Hence “even if nothing comes of it”. ;)

Quite aside from the things he’s been charged with, he has done more to poison and divide Scottish public life than any other living individual. Sadly that’s not criminal behaviour, and he won’t ever go to jail for it. So in my small-minded way I’ll just have to satisfy myself with a photo of him looking miserable.

denphone 24-01-2019 11:03
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35980590)
Maybe we should wait until he's found guilty of anything, old fashioned I know....
Never liked him personally as hes a arrogant smug ******* but yes being arrested and charged is one thing but one is not guilty until proven in a court of law.

Stuart 24-01-2019 11:23
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980591)
Hence “even if nothing comes of it”. ;)

Quite aside from the things he’s been charged with, he has done more to poison and divide Scottish public life than any other living individual. Sadly that’s not criminal behaviour, and he won’t ever go to jail for it. So in my small-minded way I’ll just have to satisfy myself with a photo of him looking miserable.
How many politicians would fall if we did make poisoning and dividing life in any country a crime? I suspect Parliament (Scottish and English) would be largely empty, and the White House, Congress and the Senate would be pretty much deserted, apart from whatever staff are required for administration and support in those buildings.

Note: I am not defending anyone who does that, as I do think it is terrible that any politician does that.

papa smurf 24-01-2019 15:09
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Salmond charged with 14 counts of sexual/indecent assault including 2 counts of attempted rape.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747


https://news.sky.com/story/alex-salm...arged-11616043

denphone 24-01-2019 15:24
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Very serious charges that is for sure.

papa smurf 24-01-2019 15:38
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35980645)
Very serious charges that is for sure.
To coin a phrase he's boned.

nashville 24-01-2019 23:33
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35980584)
Oh happy day.

Even if nothing comes of it, a photo of him without that smug half-smile on his treacherous face is worth its weight in gold.
I agree, This should take him down a peg or two

papa smurf 25-01-2019 08:44
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35980718)
I agree, This should take him down a peg or two
And any one else who covered up any illegal activity if the charges are proved.

Mr K 25-01-2019 08:59
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35980718)
I agree, This should take him down a peg or two
Assumptions of guilt seem to be happening already. (remember the innocent drone people and headlines of 'we've got them')

Even if you don't like him (and I don't) because of the referendum/politics, if he's found innocent then there's no way he should 'be taken down a peg or two'

Chris 25-01-2019 09:31
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35980734)
Assumptions of guilt seem to be happening already. (remember the innocent drone people and headlines of 'we've got them')

Even if you don't like him (and I don't) because of the referendum/politics, if he's found innocent then there's no way he should 'be taken down a peg or two'
Oh, there really is.

He’s unbearably smug and has divided Scotland like nobody since Bonnie Prince Charlie. The reaction to his discomfort has nothing to do with what he’s been accused of. That’s for a jury to decide. This is all about seeing someone who has caused such misery being miserable.

Hom3r 25-01-2019 12:42
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35980576)

The Fishing puns yesterday :D

The net is closing etc. :D

Sephiroth 26-01-2019 09:57
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Scotland won't leave the UK. Many reasons including:

1. It has a huge balance of payments deficit

2. North Sea rig dismantling costs will hit them

3. The majority of Scots are sensible

Btw, when talking about the Salmond's "smugness", what about Sturgeon's? Beats it by a mile.

Chris 26-01-2019 11:45
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Sturgeon isn’t smug, she’s belligerent and self-righteous. Which actually is often worse.

Hom3r 27-01-2019 10:41
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
It's a shame Sturgeon can't bugger off to Europe if she wants to remain so badly.

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 ----------

Sorry has to be done, as per Facebooks 10 year challenge.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/data...FflWKVKioq2f/Z

Hom3r 27-01-2019 10:43
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
1 Attachment(s)
10 year challenge

Maggy 27-01-2019 11:20
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
How about we stick to the actual topic?

OLD BOY 28-01-2019 16:40
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
As the Scots voted no, I guess this is the end of the matter for a generation. Nothing much else to talk about here.

RichardCoulter 28-01-2019 20:13
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
If we leave the EU and Scotland wanted to rejoin, they could put their house in order and apply to join again. Leaving the EU might be enough for some people to change their minds and produce a yes vote for independence.

Sephiroth 28-01-2019 20:21
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35981069)
If we leave the EU and Scotland wanted to rejoin, they could put their house in order and apply to join again. Leaving the EU might be enough for some people to change their minds and produce a yes vote for independence.
… No doubt to end up as a nett beneficiary!

Chris 28-01-2019 23:50
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35981069)
If we leave the EU and Scotland wanted to rejoin, they could put their house in order and apply to join again. Leaving the EU might be enough for some people to change their minds and produce a yes vote for independence.
There’s no Good Friday Agreement to force everyone to try to keep the border open in the event of Scotland being in the EU and England being out.

Brexit is about to kill Scottish independence stone dead and the SNP knows it. As soon as the electorate is confronted with the reality of austerity-on-steroids and the sheer illogicallity of leaving the U.K. single market, where more than three quarters of all Scottish “exports” go, in order to secure privileged access to something vastly smaller and managed in the interests of countries whose governments care nothing whatsoever for Scotland, well our heids dinnae button up the back, as they say around here.

RichardCoulter 25-04-2019 11:56
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Sturgeon wants a new independence referendum if Scotland is pulled out of the EU:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-48026430

nomadking 25-04-2019 12:02
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Time for the Barnett formula to be ended for Scotland. No justification for it. They have their own tax raising powers so Scotland should be funding Scottish spending, not England. They need to face reality.
Link

Quote:
The latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) data for Scotland shows that for 2017-18 overall state spending hit £73.4bn compared to tax income of just under £60bn, including oil revenues. That left a deficit for the year of £13.4bn, compared with £13.5bn the year before. Scotland’s deficit was equivalent to 7.9% of GDP, while for the UK as a whole it was 1.9%.
Scotland has 8.2% of the UK’s population but absorbed 9.3% of the UK’s total state spending while its share of tax raised across the UK stood at 7.8%. The UK government said this meant the Scottish deficit was equivalent to nearly £1,900 per head more than the UK’s deficit.
According to EU rules the deficit should be less than 3%. They have a very long way to go.

Stephen 25-04-2019 12:39
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I wish that woman and the SNP would just bugger off. Da

Sephiroth 25-04-2019 12:46
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Half of me says we either have a Union or we don’t, secession being a democratically available option.

Half of me says sod them. The shenanigans that would follow a decision for them to,leave the Union would be amusing for many people south of the border, not to mention the economic turmoil that would it Scotland.

The third half of me says that sturgeon should get what she wishes for and the unintended consequences.

That’s 2:1 for sod them if the choose independence.

OLD BOY 25-04-2019 13:03
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992182)
Time for the Barnett formula to be ended for Scotland. No justification for it. They have their own tax raising powers so Scotland should be funding Scottish spending, not England. They need to face reality.
Link

According to EU rules the deficit should be less than 3%. They have a very long way to go.
Quite right. Scotland benefits from being part of the UK. The SNP detests the English and their case for independence is based on pure emotion. There is certainly no economic case for it.

No wonder they want to remain within the EU - so they can sponge even larger sums of money off them! If we leave the EU, where will they get their subs from if they are no longer part of the UK either?

The SNP are a bunch of parasitic losers if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35992187)
Half of me says we either have a Union or we don’t, secession being a democratically available option.

Half of me says sod them. The shenanigans that would follow a decision for them to,leave the Union would be amusing for many people south of the border, not to mention the economic turmoil that would it Scotland.

The third half of me says that sturgeon should get what she wishes for and the unintended consequences.

That’s 2:1 for sod them if the choose independence.
I think you need to brush up on your maths, Seph. :D

1andrew1 25-04-2019 15:27
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35992188)
Quite right. Scotland benefits from being part of the UK. The SNP detests the English and their case for independence is based on pure emotion. There is certainly no economic case for it.
Unhindered by stifling British bureaucracy, Scotland will be free to sign its own trade deals. There's a whole world outside the UK and many parts of it are growing more rapidly than the UK. ;)

Sephiroth 25-04-2019 15:44
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35992188)
Quite right. Scotland benefits from being part of the UK. The SNP detests the English and their case for independence is based on pure emotion. There is certainly no economic case for it.

No wonder they want to remain within the EU - so they can sponge even larger sums of money off them! If we leave the EU, where will they get their subs from if they are no longer part of the UK either?

The SNP are a bunch of parasitic losers if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------



I think you need to brush up on your maths, Seph. :D
However I could have expressed it, 2:1 for sod them would still have emerged.

papa smurf 25-04-2019 15:51
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Brussels REJECTS instant membership for Scotland: EU HAMMER BLOW for independence campaign


SCOTLAND has suffered a hammer blow to its independence hopes after Brussels chiefs insisted the country would not be given preferential treatment to join the European Union.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...mission-latest

jfman 25-04-2019 17:25
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Not like the express to have a headline that doesn’t reflect the content of the article.

1andrew1 25-04-2019 17:37
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35992220)
Not like the express to have a headline that doesn’t reflect the content of the article.
:D

OLD BOY 25-04-2019 18:34
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35992204)
Unhindered by stifling British bureaucracy, Scotland will be free to sign its own trade deals. There's a whole world outside the UK and many parts of it are growing more rapidly than the UK. ;)
Except that the UK has far less bureaucracy under the Conservartives, and what there is you can expect to be loosened when we Brexit.

If Scotland were independent of the UK and the EU, yes, the opportunities would be there, but with SNP anti-business policies and its left of centre agenda, they will not prosper, I'm afraid.

jfman 25-04-2019 18:41
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35992226)
Except that the UK has far less bureaucracy under the Conservartives, and what there is you can expect to be loosened when we Brexit.

If Scotland were independent of the UK and the EU, yes, the opportunities would be there, but with SNP anti-business policies and its left of centre agenda, they will not prosper, I'm afraid.
In your right wing opinion, an ideology that Scotland broadly rejects.

Surely that freedom to leave and take back control is worth voting for, even if there's an economic cost? (and that's a big if). At least - that's the argument in favour of Brexit.

OLD BOY 25-04-2019 19:31
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35992227)
In your right wing opinion, an ideology that Scotland broadly rejects.

Surely that freedom to leave and take back control is worth voting for, even if there's an economic cost? (and that's a big if). At least - that's the argument in favour of Brexit.
It's not right wing ideology at all. If a government over-taxes the rich and stifles innovation, the rich take their money elsewhere. You do understand that, right?

Brexit is about taking back control so we can prosper. It's not about taking control for the sake of it.

Hugh 25-04-2019 20:13
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35992236)
It's not right wing ideology at all. If a government over-taxes the rich and stifles innovation, the rich take their money elsewhere. You do understand that, right?

Brexit is about taking back control so we can prosper. It's not about taking control for the sake of it.
Depends on your definition of ‘over-tax".

When companies off-shore Holding Companies to avoid paying Corporation Tax, or use complex barely legal tax avoidance schemes (knowing even if they have to pay, they will have held on to the capital for a few years), remedying those situations is not "over-taxing".

We all need to pay appropriate taxes to support the society we all live in - wanting to keep an extra 5% of anything you earn over £150k is just being greedy, imho (speaking as someone who has been on 40% and above tax rate for over 25 years).

nomadking 25-04-2019 20:27
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35992239)
Depends on your definition of ‘over-tax".

When companies off-shore Holding Companies to avoid paying Corporation Tax, or use complex barely legal tax avoidance schemes (knowing even if they have to pay, they will have held on to the capital for a few years), remedying those situations is not "over-taxing".

We all need to pay appropriate taxes to support the society we all live in - wanting to keep an extra 5% of anything you earn over £150k is just being greedy, imho (speaking as someone who has been on 40% and above tax rate for over 25 years).
These companies do pay corporation tax, just in the country they are based in and not the UK. They are acting as importers. Nothing new. Just as the main tax paid on a BMW car made in Germany, is paid in Germany. That is where the cost of building the car occurs. Any UK tax will only be paid on the "commission" part of any sale. Money earned from Intellectual Property(eg Franchise fees, copyright, etc) can be sent to any country in the world. Nothing new in that.

jfman 25-04-2019 20:30
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35992236)
It's not right wing ideology at all. If a government over-taxes the rich and stifles innovation, the rich take their money elsewhere. You do understand that, right?

Brexit is about taking back control so we can prosper. It's not about taking control for the sake of it.
That’s right wing ideology. Your inability to recognise that is irrelevant.

The ability of the “rich” as you put it to take their money elsewhere is questionable at best. Taxing income (for individuals) and profits (for companies) you are making the flawed assumption that everyone can readily make the same amount/enjoy the same standard of living, working or trading elsewhere in the world.

That’s simply not true for the vast majority. Scaremongering.

A high earner with children could quickly find their marginal gains lost by paying tuition fees. Not to mention higher house prices in the rest of the UK.

Chris 25-04-2019 20:50
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
To answer the original question: still no. And while the SNP furiously backtracks on its 2014 policy position (“once in a generation”) the true guardian of the UK constitution - the UK government - has once more reiterated that the 2014 referendum was a once in a generation event and that it will not legislate to grant Holyrood the necessary powers to hold a legal referendum before 2021.

And the whole thing has made even fewer waves than the last time Sturgeon jumped on the outrage bus in 2016. Which really ought to tell her something about how fatigued the Scottish electorate is with all this. SNP huffing and puffing about independence has just become background noise.

jfman 25-04-2019 21:02
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
If Brexit happens, or the Corbyn needs the SNP to prop up a Labour Government, I can see it happening.

If Brexit fails I think people are tired of constitutional questions.

Hugh 25-04-2019 22:16
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992244)
These companies do pay corporation tax, just in the country they are based in and not the UK. They are acting as importers. Nothing new. Just as the main tax paid on a BMW car made in Germany, is paid in Germany. That is where the cost of building the car occurs. Any UK tax will only be paid on the "commission" part of any sale. Money earned from Intellectual Property(eg Franchise fees, copyright, etc) can be sent to any country in the world. Nothing new in that.
I wonder why the Conservatives brought a new law in, then?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...irms-uk-amazon
Quote:
Internet companies that legally avoid taxes by shifting profits overseas face being taxed on royalties on UK sales in a move dubbed the “Google tax”.

The measure, predicted to raise about £200m a year, forms part of the government’s latest package to tackle tax avoidance and evasion, which the chancellor predicted would raise a total of £4.8bn by 2022-23.

In his budget speech, Philip Hammond said: “Multinational digital businesses pay billions of pounds in royalties to jurisdictions where they are not taxed – and some of these royalties relate to UK sales.

“So, from April 2019, and in accordance with our international obligations, we will apply income tax to royalties relating to UK sales, when those royalties are paid to a low-tax jurisdiction.”

The move comes after international criticism of the taxes paid by huge digital businesses such as Google and Amazon, which route their profits through low-tax states.

A recent study found Amazon paid 11 times less corporation tax in the UK than British bookstores. Last year, Google agreed a deal with British tax authorities to pay £130m in back taxes and bear a greater tax burden in future.

The push to claw more taxes from digital businesses came as part of the chancellor’s yearly assault on tax evasion and avoidance.

He said the government had secured £160bn in additional tax revenue since 2010, and that his latest steps would raise £4.8bn. The figure includes £2.3bn of additional tax revenues brought in after committing £155m in new resources for HM Revenue & Customs.

HMRC is also benefiting from having the time it has to investigate all offshore tax non-compliance extended to 12 years, in the Treasury’s response to offshore exposés such as the Panama and Paradise Papers.

JMcB 25-04-2019 22:20
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Yes-Scotland and then the North of Ireland

jfman 25-04-2019 22:27
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMcB (Post 35992253)
Yes-Scotland and then the North of Ireland
It’s the common sense solution to allowing England to solve it’s identity crisis. No Empire, not a leader in military terms, not a leader in Europe.

nomadking 25-04-2019 22:42
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35992252)
I wonder why the Conservatives brought a new law in, then?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...irms-uk-amazon
What Google "sell" is supplied from ABROAD.

Amazon distribute goods sold by OTHER companies. Those OTHER companies actually pay any corporation tax due. Amazon charges a fee, and tax will be due on that, but the large costs of setting up warehouses etc will eat into the amount of tax due. Just as it would for ANY other business. Amazon UK doesn't "own" any of the products in their UK warehouses. Any Amazon products are owned by an Amazon company based outside the UK.

With a supermarket, a company like Heinz will SELL to Tesco's, cans of baked beans. Heinz pay tax on that, Tesco's pay tax based on the profits of selling those baked beans. If a product Tesco's sells comes from outside the UK, then UK tax WON'T be due on the sale of it to Tesco's.

It's the same way it has ALWAYS been. It's just that the internet and cheapness of transportation makes it easier to operate from abroad, and so the use has increased.

jfman 25-04-2019 22:48
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992256)
What Google "sell" is supplied from ABROAD.

Amazon distribute goods sold by OTHER companies. Those OTHER companies actually pay any corporation tax due. Amazon charges a fee, and tax will be due on that, but the large costs of setting up warehouses etc will eat into the amount of tax due. Just as it would for ANY other business. Amazon UK doesn't "own" any of the products in their UK warehouses. Any Amazon products are owned by an Amazon company based outside the UK.

With a supermarket, a company like Heinz will SELL to Tesco's, cans of baked beans. Heinz pay tax on that, Tesco's pay tax based on the profits of selling those baked beans. If a product Tesco's sells comes from outside the UK, then UK tax WON'T be due on the sale of it to Tesco's.

It's the same way it has ALWAYS been. It's just that the internet and cheapness of transportation makes it easier to operate from abroad, and so the use has increased.
Not once we have tariffs with everyone.

Pierre 25-04-2019 23:04
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
It is hilarious.

For Brexit a no deal exit is economic and political suicide, apparently.

Whereas for Scottish independence it’s utopia

Ok

jfman 25-04-2019 23:12
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35992261)
It is hilarious.

For Brexit a no deal exit is economic and political suicide, apparently.

Whereas for Scottish independence it’s utopia

Ok
It stops Scotland being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with. Nobody claims it’d be utopia. For many it can’t get worse!

It’s a win for England though, no more Barnett and no Labour Party with a chance of winning.

1andrew1 25-04-2019 23:25
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35992261)
It is hilarious.

For Brexit a no deal exit is economic and political suicide, apparently.

Whereas for Scottish independence it’s utopia

Ok
You're 50% correct. ;)

nomadking 25-04-2019 23:28
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35992263)
It stops Scotland being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with. Nobody claims it’d be utopia. For many it can’t get worse!

It’s a win for England though, no more Barnett and no Labour Party with a chance of winning.
And therefore "being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with".

jfman 25-04-2019 23:36
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992267)
And therefore "being governed by a party pushing policies it broadly disagrees with".
England will get the government it elects. It’s an ideal solution. Outside the EU.

nashville 26-04-2019 00:31
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35992185)
I wish that woman and the SNP would just bugger off. Da
Same here Stephen, Sick of her and her party ,

Hugh 26-04-2019 09:42
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992256)
What Google "sell" is supplied from ABROAD.

Amazon distribute goods sold by OTHER companies. Those OTHER companies actually pay any corporation tax due. Amazon charges a fee, and tax will be due on that, but the large costs of setting up warehouses etc will eat into the amount of tax due. Just as it would for ANY other business. Amazon UK doesn't "own" any of the products in their UK warehouses. Any Amazon products are owned by an Amazon company based outside the UK.

With a supermarket, a company like Heinz will SELL to Tesco's, cans of baked beans. Heinz pay tax on that, Tesco's pay tax based on the profits of selling those baked beans. If a product Tesco's sells comes from outside the UK, then UK tax WON'T be due on the sale of it to Tesco's.

It's the same way it has ALWAYS been. It's just that the internet and cheapness of transportation makes it easier to operate from abroad, and so the use has increased.
You are under a misapprehension - the services Google sell in the UK are sold and supplied by staff (they currently employ 3,500 in London, going up to 7,000 by next year) at their huge offices in London, but they put the sales through their Dublin Office or Luxembourg Office (depending on what it is).

I know this because I worked with Google for 5 years as one of members of their Education CIO Group.

Sephiroth 26-04-2019 09:51
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
So, watch out for Amazon (Scotland) post sod off day.

Stephen 26-04-2019 09:57
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Scotland will NOT leave the UK. We don't want to leave and also the UK Government will NOT grant the rights to hold another referendum. Sturgeon can do one.

Sephiroth 26-04-2019 10:10
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
The man from Rutherglen said,
Scotland will never be led
To independence,
So in a sentence,
Sturgeon can do one instead.

nomadking 26-04-2019 10:20
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35992292)
You are under a misapprehension - the services Google sell in the UK are sold and supplied by staff (they currently employ 3,500 in London, going up to 7,000 by next year) at their huge offices in London, but they put the sales through their Dublin Office or Luxembourg Office (depending on what it is).

I know this because I worked with Google for 5 years as one of members of their Education CIO Group.
The data comes from their Data centres, none of which are in the UK. The ads are "broadcast" from those data centres. Any sales staff are merely selling a service ultimately physically provided from OUTSIDE the UK.

If the data centre and the costs of building and running it occur OUTSIDE the UK, how would they be able to offset those costs against sales? The principle of Corporation Tax is that it's levelled against PROFITS, not sales.

The Ireland & Luxembourg separation will be that the service charge goes to Ireland, and the Intellectual Property part(ie for using the Google software systems) goes to Luxembourg. The income is then taxed by those countries. Once that money has been taxed it can be sent anywhere in the world, including tax havens.

Quote:
Under the new regime, eligible net income from qualifying IP assets benefits from an 80% exemption from income taxes. Consequently, a corporate taxpayer based in Luxembourg Ville with eligible net income will be taxed on such income at an overall (i.e. corporate income taxes plus municipal business tax) effective tax rate of 5.202% in the 2018 tax year. IP assets qualifying for the new regime also benefit from a full exemption from Luxembourg’s net wealth tax.
Eg A common theme in the Music business is to have royalties sent to somewhere like Holland or Luxembourg with lower tax rates for IP. If they bring some of that already taxed money into the UK, it is taxed further to bring it into line as if it had been brought straight into the UK. If left in the Dutch/Luxembourg company, it can then be invested elsewhere from those companies. Profits from those investments will be taxed in Holland/Luxembourg. The total amount available to invest is more that if it had been brought straight into the UK and taxed fully.

Link
Quote:
What two of the other members of the Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger and Charlie Watts, apparently learned was that Richards's near-death experience meant it was time to think about their heirs. For that, the aging rockers turned to a reclusive Dutch accountant, Johannes Favie, whose company, Promogroup, has helped them minimize their tax bills for more than 30 years.
...
Other Dutch shelters that Promogroup has arranged for the three have already paid off handsomely: over the past 20 years, according to Dutch documents, the musicians have paid just $7.2 million in taxes on earnings of $450 million that they have channeled through Amsterdam — a tax rate of about 1.5 percent, compared with the British rate of 40 percent.

Stephen 26-04-2019 10:29
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35992297)
The man from Rutherglen said,
Scotland will never be led
To independence,
So in a sentence,
Sturgeon can do one instead.
What's that mean to mean??

Sephiroth 26-04-2019 10:33
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35992301)
What's that mean to mean??
Just a humourous variant of your earlier post.

Hugh 26-04-2019 13:33
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992299)
The data comes from their Data centres, none of which are in the UK. The ads are "broadcast" from those data centres. Any sales staff are merely selling a service ultimately physically provided from OUTSIDE the UK.

If the data centre and the costs of building and running it occur OUTSIDE the UK, how would they be able to offset those costs against sales? The principle of Corporation Tax is that it's levelled against PROFITS, not sales.

The Ireland & Luxembourg separation will be that the service charge goes to Ireland, and the Intellectual Property part(ie for using the Google software systems) goes to Luxembourg. The income is then taxed by those countries. Once that money has been taxed it can be sent anywhere in the world, including tax havens.

Eg A common theme in the Music business is to have royalties sent to somewhere like Holland or Luxembourg with lower tax rates for IP. If they bring some of that already taxed money into the UK, it is taxed further to bring it into line as if it had been brought straight into the UK. If left in the Dutch/Luxembourg company, it can then be invested elsewhere from those companies. Profits from those investments will be taxed in Holland/Luxembourg. The total amount available to invest is more that if it had been brought straight into the UK and taxed fully.

Link
My information comes from experience of working with Google, the HMRC Legislation, and discussions with my best friend, who is a Senior Tax Partner (with extensive experience in British and International Tax Law, over 30 years Tax Law experience) with one of the Big Four accountancy firms.

The service they sell is on your desktop, which is in the UK - the data servers aren't in Luxembourg, but holding companies are based there, which negates your assertions. They are based in a low-tax regime, which is why the law was changed - you may not like it, but that's what happened.

nomadking 26-04-2019 13:53
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35992328)
My information comes from experience of working with Google, the HMRC Legislation, and discussions with my best friend, who is a Senior Tax Partner (with extensive experience in British and International Tax Law, over 30 years Tax Law experience) with one of the Big Four accountancy firms.

The service they sell is on your desktop, which is in the UK - the data servers aren't in Luxembourg, but holding companies are based there, which negates your assertions. They are based in a low-tax regime, which is why the law was changed - you may not like it, but that's what happened.
I pointed out the separation of Ireland and Luxembourg. A data centre IS in Ireland and IP fees can go anywhere in the world. Apart from anything else, it just makes sense to pick one destination rather than have to deal with 28 different tax regimes.

Quote:
In September 2011, we announced that we would invest €75 million to convert a warehouse on an industrial site in West Dublin into our third energy-efficient data center in Europe. To date, we’ve invested approximately €500 million to build and operate data centers on our Dublin site.
How would UK tax treat those €500 million costs?

Hugh 26-04-2019 19:28
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992335)
I pointed out the separation of Ireland and Luxembourg. A data centre IS in Ireland and IP fees can go anywhere in the world. Apart from anything else, it just makes sense to pick one destination rather than have to deal with 28 different tax regimes.

How would UK tax treat those €500 million costs?
You are using the same arguments they did, and they lost...

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-t...s-tax-in-2020/

Quote:
The Digital Services Tax (DST), which the Treasury estimates will raise £1.5 billion over four years, will apply a 2 percent levy to revenues derived from the activities of U.K. users of search engines, social media platforms and online marketplaces. It's not an online sales tax but one that targets revenue generated thanks to data collected from users.
Quote:
The Office for Budget Responsibility, the U.K. government’s tax and spending watchdog, confirmed the tax is expected to come from “a handful of large businesses” — mostly relating to advertising revenue and the commissions charged by online marketplaces. It warned that the estimated £400 million a year tax take is highly “uncertain” because of the “data, modeling and behavioral complexities involved.”

nomadking 26-04-2019 19:34
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35992362)
You are using the same arguments they did, and they lost...

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-t...s-tax-in-2020/
If they lost the argument, why are any new rules needed? It actually proves that I and they are correct.

Hugh 26-04-2019 19:37
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35992366)
If they lost the argument, why are any new rules needed? It actually proves that I and they are correct.
They changed the rules to remedy the avoidance - it’s what governments do.

So you and they "won", but our government (and our country) gets the tax revenue - I can live with "losing" like that... ;)

Chris 26-04-2019 19:53
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Anyone want to explain how this relates to Scottish nationalists or a referendum? I’m confused ... ;)

Damien 26-04-2019 19:58
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I can't believe people are willingly embracing the idea of Scotland leaving. Just how much of this country are we going to destroy before handing it to future generations?

Mr K 26-04-2019 20:18
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35992375)
I can't believe people are willingly embracing the idea of Scotland leaving. Just how much of this country are we going to destroy before handing it to future generations?
Little England is very much how it will end up. On a world par with Liechtenstein.

OLD BOY 27-04-2019 02:28
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35992375)
I can't believe people are willingly embracing the idea of Scotland leaving. Just how much of this country are we going to destroy before handing it to future generations?
Are you actually living in the real world? The rest of the UK will be better off without Scotland and its socialist outlook!

We are happy to help the Scots out while they stay, but if they want to leave, for God's sake, go!

We'll soon see how that works out.

Hugh 27-04-2019 08:30
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35992422)
Are you actually living in the real world? The rest of the UK will be better off without Scotland and its socialist outlook!

We are happy to help the Scots out while they stay, but if they want to leave, for God's sake, go!

We'll soon see how that works out.
The SNP are more Social Democrats than Socialist...

nashville 27-04-2019 13:36
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I am so sick of this woman trying to be the person to make history for Scotland to be Independent , She does not give a jot about the trouble we would be in with different currency and division among the U K, as long as she makes herself powerful. I hope and pray this will never happen, It s time the S N P were done away with in my opinion ,

1andrew1 27-04-2019 14:55
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35992430)
The SNP are more Social Democrats than Socialist...
To some, anything left of the Conservative Party is socialist.

Sephiroth 27-04-2019 20:48
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
It would best for Britain to continue not to allow Scotland to use the GBP if they gain independence.

With Scotland being a bad business proposition (unable to balance its books), there would be an immediate and sustained fall in the GBP's value.

Sod them means sod them.


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