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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
1 Attachment(s)
its werth posting it here if its not to big.
i thumbnailed it to CF just incase it goes missing on the bt servers later. as you can see they are still collecting your datastream and checking/processing for a cookie or other data on your PC, only now it's BT not the Phorm kit doing the collecting and processing. plain as day, you refuse/decline ,they try and write an unauthorised data cookie to your machine without permission. do you think they dont quite get it yet! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Stupid system :dunce: |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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A publicity stunt plays right into their hands. Fathers 4 Justice have been climbing up things for years. I'm not prepared to wait years for Phorm to be 'reversed', once it's here it will never go away. Most of the general public believe the doctors who tell you that this drug is a lifesaver, rather than the people dressed up as beagles who do not like how it was researched in the first place. We need to really think about this because we could end up kissing this campaign goodbye. ---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:17 ---------- I've just posted this in the meeting thread. "I'm not so certain that it's a good idea for this thread should be split from the main one. There are plenty of people who can't get to the meeting, but would like to be involved in the discussions about it. We dont have seperate threads for RIPA or ICO etc. It might be a good idea to have a thread about anouncements regarding the meeting. i.e. where to meet up etc., perhaps a temporary 'sticky' if the mods would agree? But I do think the discussion for all this should be kept in one place." Anyone agree? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I like the idea but I can just see the headlines the next day "Anonymous hijacks privacy debate", "Internet hackers fight for their privacy". I think the talk will be against Phorm anyway, we don't need masks.
Also i asked about filming the event, 8020 thinking: "We are holding this meeting in as transparent a manner as possible, and as such would be happy for you to bring along your camcorder should you so wish" |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
It's nice that the ICO think opt-out cookies are the way to go but it still doesn't deal with RIPA. It is illegal to intercept (in the world and purposes of BTPhorm) my communications. Intercepting my communications to find out whether or not I have given you permission is still an illegal interception. End of.
If ISP's and Phorm wish to continue there must be two distinct paths through their system. Path one - as is, no interception. Path two - opted in (proxy changed on my machine?) Phorm wire-tap. "we will check your cookie", "We promise not to look" is still an illegal interception of communication. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I've also had a reply from 80/20 Thinking re my request for a webcast or podcast of the meeting. The reply I received was privileged and confidential, but what I can say is that so far I am very happy with the response I received. Being ever hopeful, I'll say watch out for some public news about this tomorrow (err, later on today as it's gone 1am and time for bed!)
Ali. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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you didnt answer the question are you a 3rd party PR for Phorm? and you can confirm, as an agent of Phorm, this is the approach to user notice you instructed BT to use in this newest diagram from BT ? http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at..._diagram70.gif achived at CF for safe keeping OC. |
Phorm public meeting
Dear all,
Following our email responses to some of you, I just wanted to confirm that we are looking to webcast the proceedings of the Phorm public meeting on Tuesday in London. We're hoping the technology at the theatre will allow this, but please do bring along vid cameras if you wish, just to be on the safe side. Best wishes Simon Davies MD, 80/20 Thinking Ltd www.8020thinking.com |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
hi simon, iv asked you this before elsewere, but it might be nice if you gave an official response on this longest Phorm related thread as your posting here.
how come it took you so long to follow the clear and simple official PIA rules as i pointed out here.#1398 18-03-2008 reproduced: " and if you can find the time, the rules that need to be followed for that Privacy Impact Assessment (PIA) is here http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...l/1-intro.html did they follow all the provisions ? i wonder http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...preparing.html "... 2. Undertake a stakeholder analysis Those who may see themselves as 'having a stake' in the project should be identified at an early stage. This may include:
... " ---------- Post added at 04:06 ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 ---------- Quote:
---------- Post added at 04:21 ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 ---------- a live managed IRC session as pointed out earlyer here might also be a good way to better fulfill your PIA individuals stakeholder analysis after all, its currently at an estimated 70% plus of the whole UK individuals. and adaptable web poll, in case some new information comes to light and needs adressing live. remember its not a marketing exercise, its a PIA to collect the information. ask a live question, click a vote, mark it's result down, simple and effective. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Ref http://cryptome.org/ho-phorm.htm (dated 11 March 2008), I have emailed Simon Watkins to ask him:
(1) On what basis do you think website owners' consent to interception is generally implied (para 15)? What if the web page presented formed part of a private or tailored communication with the user - for example, a commercial quote or a message? (2) How lawful is it if opted-out users still have their communications intercepted and inspected anyway, just not analysed? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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More to the point, how are Phorm going to identify websites that specifically deny consent to interception? All a website owner has to do is include a line of text stating that they do not consent to that site, or even a particular page on a site, being intercepted and the ISP is breaking the law. I'd be interested to know how the system is going to identify and differentiate between consensual and non-consensual pages without intercepting them to find out, especially as no information has been forthcoming about what site owners should put in their robots.txt file. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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We want the public to empathise with us - not them to think we are loonies. Please dont wear masks!!! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Ali. P.s. If it were a protest march, then yes, masks/costumes would be appropriate. However, this is a serious meeting designed to fulfil requirements under the PIA, please respect it as such. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I seem to spend ages getting rid of spyware etc and now they are trying to pretend its good!!!!!
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi - I think we need to spread the profile of this story outside of Technical News sites (like The Register, BBC Technical section etc).
Today I have emailed Radio 4s Today Programmme, World at One, PM, Click and even Newsnight the following email. Please advise if there are other places we should be sending it. Quote:
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Re: Phorm public meeting
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Simon - Thanks for posting and nice to see the points about bringing along video cameras. "Hoping" isn't really a positive action though - surely the venue can confirm whether or not webcasting is possible? If it isn't then will a full audio recording be made and posted online with a full transcript? Spin can only be countered by truth. As an individual who will be affected by this I certainly want to have input in your PIA document. Getting my crocked body to London may well not be remotely viable, so you can look forward to my e-mail. As has already been mentioned, the V masks could get people confusing anti Phorm people with Anonymous - read a link off El Reg comments somewhere that says Saturday is another demo day. I spend far too much time reading that site!!! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
You should see what Virgin Media Staff think about this on out intranet site! Were all really angry about this too. The powers that be need to look at peoples opinions! (JUST LIKE THE PREMIUM RATE TECH SUPPORT NUMBER!!!)
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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We now have pretty clear statements of intent from both BT and TalkTalk, but still nothing from VM. Hello? Virgin Media? Is anybody home? Your customers demand to know what you plan to do with their accounts. We're waiting...and this isn't going to go away, no matter how long you stay silent... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Ok I've looked a bit more at how BT plan to use Phorm (see http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/customer_choice.html) though there's no indication whether that's how it was set up in the previous 06/07 trials and that would probably only ever be revealed if taken to court.
In the diagram the client is connected to the rules engine but it shows that only http traffic goes there so in-between there is some protocol filtering equipment that is not shown or the diagram is wrong and the rules engine reads all the data and determines which is http. If the former is correct then it would be trivial to route only 'opted-in customers connections' to the rules engine to determine if they currently want to be 'Phormed'. By 'opted-in customers connections' I mean that if a system like this were to be implemented the express consent of the paying customer (who they have a contract with) is required before they can asked the current web user on the connection if they agree to be 'Phormed'. They would therefore have to contact the customer beforehand by email or post to get informed consent and then it would be the customers responsibility to inform anyone using the Internet connection that they have consented. As it is it does not comply with the law. They (in this case BT with Phorm 'aiding & abetting'/inciting) are planning to intercept the data not for a purpose they they have the right to do. What happens after the interception is irrelevant as they do not have the lawful right to intercept in the first place. It is clearly obvious that Phorm have tried hard to comply with the law and distance themselves from the data interception and they may not be directly controlling the interception in the current BT model but they are complicit. Though Phorm have tried it is all in vain as the root of their system, their idea, is to track millions of web users and can only realistically be achieved by breaking the law. The possible model I outlined above, that may comply with the law, would gain them very few customers and not enough revenue. Sorry Phorm your business model is no go. And I haven't even bothered with the privacy issues or the mountainous task of getting website owners permission. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
There's an excellent discussion on the BT Phorm thread re websites and webmasters. One person says:
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
What we need is lots of Phorm-haters to take up the 10000 places on the trial and flood them with massively bad feedback!
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Any one noticed there has been no movement of Phorm stock on the markets this morning?
Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Dunno why no movement either way tho. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Phorm Inc - Final Results posted today.
The results state a lot of things as fact that we all know not to be true. From the provacy perspective, and VM state they have not yet signed a contract etc. On frst reading the info poste don the ii site do look to be a manipulation of the market, considering the info is misleading in light of our current knowledge of the company Maybe some mail sent to the FSA, and stock market regulator will be in order. Can anybody help with the draft of a letter? And Hi PhormUKPRteam,:handshake maybe you can shed some light on the marketing spin. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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But there have been no trades so far today, last 5 trades below: Time/Date Price Volume Trade value Type 16:23:49 09-Apr-2008 1,525.00 1,000 15,250.00 Ordinary Trade 16:11:55 09-Apr-2008 1,500.00 1,000 15,000.00 Ordinary Trade 15:47:53 09-Apr-2008 1,485.00 500 7,425.00 Ordinary Trade 15:46:00 09-Apr-2008 1,475.00 2,000 29,500.00 Ordinary Trade 15:12:08 09-Apr-2008 1,485.00 150 2,227.50 Ordinary Trade |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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It has been clear (and indeed they have gone on record saying) that the ISPs are eager for people to not even notice this is happening - in my view, a very dangerous scenario. Of course, the guinea pigs will see a one-time-only opt-in/opt-out page, but that's likely to be worded to make it sound as if all this technology does is protect you from phishing. Most average people will just click yes to get past it and go to what they were trying to see in the first place. So will I sign-up to any future Virgin Media trial? Well, I'd have to switch browsers first...my current browser of choice is not on the Phorm whitelist apparently, so according to the BT schematic posted earlier today, I wouldn't even see the trial invitation screen. Hmmm. Tough choice. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Does anyone have any real hope that the opt-in blurb will be upfront & honest? Think of all the 'YOUR PC IS FULL OF SPYWARE AND WE CAN FIX IT' (for a fee) crap that still scare many internet users into parting with their £. These people are experts in the scareware bull**** so we must keep going with educating friends, family, colleges, businesses and anyone else who will listen not to be taken in by these scammers. (rant over) |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Wish I had one share. Now would be a good time to sell it for a fiver.;)
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I've just had a thought...maybe it's something to do with the share issue that's upcoming? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
One thing I find amusing which I don't think they have thought of yet, is their description (by Kent) of how the Opt-In will work.
They claim all users will be sent to a web page the first time they log in after Phorm goes live, where they will get the option to opt in. So 10 million internet subscribers around the UK (once all 3 ISP deploy) are going to be greeted with a full page spam page offering protection from Phishing and advertising. Not unlike the countless pieces of adware/spyware/malware out there that people associate as virus'. So 10 million people are going to be saying: "WTF!!! Noooo not again!"<forces a system check with all anti-virus/adware/spyware software on their computer> When nothing is found they will simply Opt Out thinking it is some browser hijacker that isn't in their anti-virus/adware/spyware definitions yet. An interesting point does arise though. If they are going to be presented with the opt-in page on next login, that should be interesting. How many people regularly login and out of their broadband service? I know I don't and I have a stable line so I rarely get resets, I get uptimes of 6+ months on a session. Are the ISPs going to force a login reset on users? What if this causes problems with for example, backing up critical data at a remote location? Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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So instead of getting my home-page, i've been intercepted and diverted. Screen shot captured and off to plod with a RIPA complaint? ---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ---------- At the register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04..._ad_targeting/ "American ISPs already sharing data with outside ad firms" |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I wouldn't read too much into the lack of share price movement.
There are so few shares in issue for Phorm that it is unlikely to be traded that often. Also at the moment shareholders have two options - sell their shares and crystallise their loss or hold on and hope for a recovery. Inaction is always easier than action which is why I think there are no trades in the security. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Personally, I think they should be required by law to put the following at the top of the page:
"BT/VM/TT have entered into an agreement with Phorm Inc., to monitor your web browsing in order to build a profile and serve you with targeted advertising; and to warn you when you are trying to access a web site which is known to be a security risk. We will monitor your web activities using Deep Packet Inspection which allows us to intercept and read all the information in your traffic data. As a result we are required to obtain your consent to do this under the following laws and statutes of the United Kingdom (and Europe): European Convention on Human Rights Council of Europe's Convention on Cybercrime Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 Human Rights Act 1998 Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 Computer Misuse Act 1990 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1998 Fraud Act 2006 Data Protection Act 1998 Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 We recommend you read a technical analysis of this service written by Dr Richard Clayton from Cambridge University. A copy of the report can be found here. We also recommend you read all of the Laws and Statutes listed above before making an informed decision on whether or not to subscribe to this service." See now -that- would be Informed Consent if the user opted in after such a notice. Of course the downside is, how can the user read the Acts and Technical report without either opting in or opting out of Phorm first, given the current page is the only web site they can access. Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi Alexander
Thanks for coming back on the offer to speak to Kent Let me know a couple of times and dates next week that would work for you so that I can get that this into Kent's diary. Also, which chatroom would you prefer to use? As soon as I have that info, we'll get this arranged Alex @ Phorm |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
hi Alex @ Phorm;
Who are you. PR company, work for Phorm directly or what? Why have Phorm posted inaccurate statements in the statement today. Plese let kent know I am writing a formal complaint to the financial authorities about the matter, as the statement is misleading given the current statement by VM that they have not yet signed to use your system, amongst other things. Once again a lack of truth and you still expect us to trust you!!!! many thanks |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi Alex @ Phorm
Why do you come on here with all your PR Spin from Phorm, but refuse to answer questions sent to you either privately or as posts on this board? Whats the point in that? - that's not portraying an honest and open company, it makes you appear like you are hiding stuff! So you have failed in your PR job horribly! So please stop the spin if you are going to post here, and start answering directly questions sent to you - without spin - if its is at all possible for you to do that! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I also noticed a member on ISPreview saying he has been told by VM when he called in to cancel that the contracts are automaticaly renewing 12 months and if he wants to leave he has to pay the remainding months. He has been a customer of Blueyounder for years.. Is this the act of a desperate company. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Finally a trade today - only a small one tho.
15:13:27 10-Apr-2008 1,485.00 250 3,712.50 Ordinary Trade |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Something along those lines anyway. I may have read about it on the consumer action group website. Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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a quick search http://www.soas.ac.uk/business/business.html http://search.virginmedia.com/result...ryUK&x=50&y=14 indicates that they have http://www.soas.ac.uk/soasnet/govern...comm/34125.pdf " SCHOOL OF ORIENTAL AND AFRICAN STUDIES Wednesday 19 October 2005 ACADEMIC SERVICES COMMITTEE MINUTES (c) Streaming The Head of Learning and Teaching Strategy spoke to a paper (Appendix E), reporting on the successful delivery of streaming technology to support learning and teaching, to stream plenary lectures of the summer’s AEGIS conference, and to record and stream for on-demand access the School’s inaugural lectures. A demonstration by the E-Learning Trainer at the recent planning day, showing how multimedia and streaming developments might support the School’s strategic development, had been well received, and the E-Learning Trainer was thanked for his efforts. A proposal for a blended-learning course, combining on- and off-campus delivery, would be brought to the next meeting of Learning and Teaching Policy Committee. " " (d) Wireless Networking The Information Technology Manager spoke to a paper (Appendix F) on the planned piloting of wireless networking in the School, noting a slight change in that the control network switches were due to be replaced in the next 12 months, not 6 as suggested by the report. The use of wireless cart technology was suggested, and it was noted that the Information Technology Manager would consult on the teaching rooms and other locations which would initially be covered by the pilot. It was agreed that information about the pilot should be communicated to the student recruitment team, as the availability of a wireless network was a major selling point in the recruitment of new students. "surely it must be possible to have a word with the network tech's there and tap into this available kit so as to cover this UK wide individuals stakeholder analysis ---------- Post added at 16:02 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ---------- if you cant arrange good free wireless streaming net coverage on a UK campus your not trying hard enough ;) and BTW , private Email questions are not appropriate for a public PIA. you must open this up realtime for all partys to contribute and be heard publicly. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Concerning these phorged cookies that Richard Clayton refers to (B 20-25)...
User 'Mark H' over on the BT forum makes quite an interesting point. http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=37&tstart=0 Ah, I notice that PhormUKPRteam are lurking, perhaps they will spin an answer. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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From http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...ble/terms.html section J 1 Quote:
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Alex @ Phorm - could you answer this for us? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
hi phorm
I am waiting for an answer please. You know it is rude to ignore somebody when being asked a question. But what can be expected considering teh company you represent. hey ho just more badphorm:dunce: |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I've been patiently waiting for several days for an answer to a query I posted to the Phorm blog but have just noticed that loads of earlier posts (and their respective comments) have been 'disappeared'.
So that's *another* element of netiquette that they feel is okay to ignore... :mad: |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Thanks Stuart I have PMed him to sign up here to get help dealing with this jsut hope he does. I also pointed out that i had canceled and would leave before the month I originally joined cable BB.
For all others has anyone read this http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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http://support.it.soas.ac.uk/connect/wireless As they are part of the eduroam system, anyone who is a student of, or a member of staff at a college or uni that is also part of this system, can log in. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
hmm thats odd, that http://support.it.soas.ac.uk/connect/wireless doesnt seem to be a valid web connected url.
did you access it from inside janet or something, it doesnt work on vm dns at least. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I have just been talking to a friend of mine who works for Google. I have asked him to talk to his superiors on the prospect of Google implementing an SSL version of their search pages.
This would be a great move by Google and would win them huge Kudos in the current climate not to mention it would be beneficial to them as well. By sending search requests over SSL they would be making it more difficult for their competitors (people like Phorm) to build profiles for targeted advertising. Google could advertise it with something like "Google now offers secure searching!". I really think it would be a great move for them. My friend is going to talk to some of his colleagues and get back to me. I am also going to contact Kim Cameron who wrote an article here, to field the idea of MSN search also offering SSL capability for the same reasons as Google. I will try and find someone at Yahoo! as well. Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Seems the server is dead though.. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Yes I already know about scroogle, but I would rather not go through a 3rd party.
Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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He's based in London so might even be persuaded to make an appearance on Tuesday evening... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
emailed Tom:
Hello Tom, I noticed on your blog that you are deeply concerned about the news in the UK with regards to Phorm. As Yahoo's foundations are laid in the search engine industry do you feel that Phorm are a direct competitor? If so, have you thought about approaching your superiors with regards to Yahoo implementing SSL versions of their search pages? In the current climate this would be a welcomed move by Yahoo by their users; but would serve twofold in making it more difficult for the likes of Phorm to leech off the back of your service in order to line their own pockets. If they are unable to intercept data from Yahoo search requests using Deep Packet Inspection technologies because they are sent over SSL, it makes their business model less viable and in turn helps to secure Yahoo's market share. This would be a prime time for Yahoo to announce such a service and would, I expect, receive significant coverage in the online press. I have contacted friends who work for Microsoft and Google who will be discussing the same idea with their superiors. If the three main search engines could take a united stance on this issue it would send a clear and resounding message to the general public that you do value privacy. Sincerely Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi All.
First post, don't know if this has been posted already, hope it's useful:angel: http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/...-independ.html In a new twist, the most influential voice in the identity space has now spoken out on the topic: Microsoft's identity guru Kim Cameron agrees that 'opt-out' implementations of Webwise are in breach of the Laws of Identity. This is important - Kim is shaping the principles that will drive future privacy-protecting identity systems, and if Phorm is an inappropriate third-party in the online identity relationship then they have a real problem on their hands. It's very likely that attention will shift to BT and VirginMedia, who have both been very quiet indeed about their 'opt-out' approach to Phorm (TalkTalk are off the hook because they have taken a more privacy-friendly 'opt-in' approach). The real test will be whether those providers start to lose business over this, particularly in Croydon and Ealing, where further trials of OIX and Webwise are due soon. That will show whether the protesters are representative of the broader user community, of if this is a niche issue that most users either don't understand or don't care about. Watch this space. Interesting bit about Croydon & Ealing Bear |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I wonder how long it will be before Phorm "reconfigure" the hardware during an "update" so that it changes search engine results to place their advertising partners at the top. If done correctly it would be very difficult to detect and prove.
Alexander Hanff ---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ---------- I just sent a follow-up email to Tom: Hello again Tom, I should have included this in my first email but it just occurred to me. It would be possible for Phorm (using the deep packet inspection technology) to alter search results on their way back to the user in order to place their advertising partners at the top of the list. If done correctly, I can't see how it would be detectable as my understanding is most search engine results are at least pseudo random, at best it would be difficult to detect and further prove. Given the history of the Phorm executives in the Spyware industry (121media) this could represent a significant threat to search engine business models. Regards Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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How could you suggest such a thing? :shocked: We all know how ethical Kent's company is... they would never stoop so low. :D |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
My apologies to bigbadcol, jca11 and ceedee - you're right I've got some things to learn about netiquette
bigbadcol: I work for Phorm not a PR agency. I'm not sure what your point is about Virgin Media. We do have agreements with it, BT and TalkTalk - we reiterated that in a financial statement today. Plus Virgin approved the press release we issued on 14 February jca11: I have passed your question to our legal guy and will chase for an answer for you. ceedee: Probably the person most in need of an apology since it seems you sent in your question a while back. I'll pick that one up first since it has been outstanding the longest And yes, I know Alexander has a list of questions as long as your arm, which I'm trying to get answered. Lawyers can be slow in the speed of their responses so please bear that in mind - it just seems to the way they work Alex @ Phorm |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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After all, I *am* working to put you out of work... ;) |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Another thought... To be of any real value in targeting adds one would need some demographic information... I wonder how that could be obtained... Nuff said... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
i didnt see this one posted from yesturday so here ya go
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...-your-surfing/ as a service for the US readers looking in, i thought id just mention NebuAd alongside Phorm as we in the UK might be seeing them soon anyway. http://news.google.com/news?oe=utf-8...hl=en&q=NebuAd http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ref=technology http://www.marcporcelli.com/2008/04/...nspection-dpi/ i read a comment somewere the other day that NebuAd are another re-named spyware companys but cant find the reference now. and strange as it seems NebuAd dont have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...?search=NebuAd that needs correcting perhaps. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I hope not - I'm enjoying all the work you guys and gals are generating for me! ;) |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
you have to join digg to do it but thats OK...
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Alexander Hanff ---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ---------- Search Engine search terms are probably one of the most valuable assets of a clickstream with regards to building profiles. So if this data suddenly became unavailable due to SSL it should have a significant impact on the efficiency and value of the Phorm "product". By showing that this is a real risk to search engines it allows the search engines to look at managing this risk through methods like SSL. Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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and a new one for you, iv asked this before elsewere, but who exactly is your Phorm legal guy?. the UK guys name address and contact Number and business email address please, as well as the US legal guys in your Phorm employ or retainer etc. and who was that QC you employed for the legal opinion, name, business address etc... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Updated Wikipedia :)
Alexander Hanff |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:27 ---------- [QUOTE=AlexanderHanff; By showing that this is a real risk to search engines it allows the search engines to look at managing this risk through methods like SSL. Alexander Hanff[/QUOTE] Yes, it would be the logical next step for search engines. But it would be a shame if everyone's effort (search engines, users, would-be internet parasites) had to be expended in such an escalating arms race: efforts to repel the parasites would be met with ever more ingenious ways to overcome the "immune system" of the productive parts of the internet. Which would in turn cause more investment in defences against the parasites. From an economic perspective, it would be far more efficient for regulators to enforce the laws against the parasites - so search engines (and we) can put our energies into productive or enjoyable activities, instead of fighting the effects of illegal surveillance. And people working for the parasites would get proper jobs. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
http://www.techradar.com/news/intern...orm-ceo-315326
Internet EXCLUSIVE: TechRadar interviews Phorm CEO Is Phorm really quite innocuous after all 5 hours ago | Reader comments (0) Alexander , go and post your laws broken list there and have some fun. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Graphics update, this time for webmasters.
Webmaster Banners webmaster banner 80x15 [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4913/webmasterbanner80x15qk0.jpgwebmaster banner 178x60 (gif) [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5262/webmasterbanner178x60lr3.gifwebmaster banner 178x60 (24-bit png) [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1926/webmasterbanner178x60du7.pngwebmaster banner 300x19 v1.0 [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1685/webmasterbanner300x19v1uz3.jpgwebmaster banner 300x19 v1.1 [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7396/webmasterbanner300x19v1kp1.jpgwebmaster banner 350x19 v1.0.jpg [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9885/webmasterbanner350x19v1ra3.jpgwebmaster banner 350x19 v1.1.jpg [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] Code:
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3839/webmasterbanner350x19v1eg1.jpgWebmasters, feel free to use these graphics on your site(s) as you see fit. Keep up the good work everybody!!! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
nice none.
<--- do you think you can take the virgin media for sale and add something funny in the for sale bit ;) user data. datastream. user copyright. etc anything you like if its fun and related... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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After all a company who is pimping internet uses data. breaking all sorts of laws, and they have an employer who does not understand simple Neiquett. Thanks for the laugh Alex.. Hope you can get a new job soon with your employment history. I had this vision while at the brandy tonight.... The Scene Phorm has gone bankrupt. Alex at a job interview. Big internet company.. Office New Company HR DROID: HELLO ALEX so You have come for a job Please tell us why you left your last employer" ALEX... I Worked for Phorm, they had this amazing system, targeting internet users by there surfing history. It was anonimous and secure great Phishing Filter as well SOUND OF LAUGHTER HR DROID: Great.... HAAAAAA. Security... HAAAAAA Thump crash The chair falls to the ground and the droid gets up. Sorry Alex, but I am so sorry .. HAAAA I cant help it, Phorm you say. I am so sorry we can not offer you a position, we have too much integrity to be associated with THAT company... HR Droid leaves the room laughing. END |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
NebuAd thinks its nearly ready to start up in the UK
(EU DC ;) ) what were their old adware name again ...., need to find that reference... http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/186462/p...y-outcome.html "... However, while Phorm is still in the experimental stage, NebuAd will soon have contracts in place to monitor 10% of American internet browsers, claims the company's founder, Robert Dykes, speaking to the New York Times. Unlike Phorm, which uses cookies to track users, NebuAd uses people's IP addresses as a unique identifier. The company has a technique to identify when a user's IP address has changed, but will not disclose any information on how it achieves this. A UK NebuAd office opened this year and the firm is currently in talks with a number of ISPs, claims Tony Evans, the UK commercial director. Evans claims the company is waiting to fully understand the privacy implications Phorm is encountering before making a move into the market " |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
NebuAd were previously Gator Corp, responsible for that fine piece of software that we all came to love and cherish ;-)
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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your bank account photographs of your children your customer's orders your business plans your trade secrets |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I'll have a stab at that over the weekend :P |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
yeah Gator thats the one thanks, we need a new http://en.wikipedia.org for NebuAd filled with all the Phorm like interesting DPI interception information as there isnt one yet.
hmm how odd, no Gator or Gator Corp eather on http://en.wikipedia.org how did they manage that? ---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:31 ---------- thanks None ;) |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
The are now part of the Claria Corporation which has a wiki entry. Its this old trick where a company with a really bad reputation changes its name to hide its past. Now where have I also seen that lately ;)
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
lmao these whole advertising companys are no more than the old companys of days gone by that would hijack browsers, install rootkits, fill you computer with adds you didnt want to ever see and for the most part destroyed normal internet users surfing experience back in the day.
I guess leopards cant change there spots and now there trying to do it legally instead of the old illegal methods that everyone caught onto and blocked out, now that all these guys are back on the scene we deserve everyone to be well informed and protest and put off these companys from ever trying to find out our details, i know i couldnt trust an isp with links to these really really dubious companys, hence the pr, tricks and stealth campaigns going on atm. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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is it werth looking for the NebuAd patents and related info ,much as Phorm, and linking this in, if they are intending to, or are already talking to the UK ISPs as implyed we might be wise to include them in our deliberations.... any wiki experts want to go and make the NebuAd links and info more accessable to the readers? ---------- Post added at 02:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:57 ---------- its a shame (and against Neiquett) chris and TheRegister dont seem to get the real credit and linked for breaking this story fom other news outlets. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...le-807818.html " Online tracking firm Phorm sees losses double By Sarah Arnott Friday, 11 April 2008 Phorm, the online advertising service accused of illegally tracking individuals' web-browsing histories in order to target marketing, announced annual losses of $32.8m (£16.6m) yesterday. The AIM-listed company recently signed partnerships with BT, Talk Talk and Virgin Media – which between them represent 70 per cent of internet service provision market. A row blew up earlier this month when a think-tank branded the company's activities as intrusive, and in contravention of laws that require users' consent before web traffic data can be used...." |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
its a bit of a messy one using that thread software, but i think i covered the point as most people will understand it, what do you think alexander? did i forget anything!
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo..._and_more.html |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Although the use of these graphics is not being policed, may I please request that they are only used by webmasters and websites who are actively trying to block Phorm. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
really good banners !
Great news from the online Independent today :- "Online tracking firm Phorm sees losses double" " Friday, 11 April 2008 Phorm, the online advertising service accused of illegally tracking individuals' web-browsing histories in order to target marketing, announced annual losses of $32.8m (£16.6m) yesterday" Do we have an address - e:mail or otherwise to sign an opt-out with Virgin I want to get mine in and acknowledged asap |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I saw a piece on BBC breakfast that a council had spied on a family about school admissions, on there was a Liberty representative, stating that the council had used RIPA to do the surveillance and how outraged they were.
I got in touch with Liberty some time ago about about Phorm and it's online tracking plans, as yet they've not replied, so it's time for a more strongly worded letter to them I think. They also have a link to a Human Rights privacy laws easily explained site called Your Rights. http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-ri...cy/index.shtml |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Sorry if I've missed them, but do we have any 'Signature' banners for people to use on forums?
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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