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Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074973)

You stated "If we are truly interested in the “entire planet” we should remove the IP rights on all vaccines and get production ramped up.". What difference would that make unless there has been a block on somebody producing it?
It takes time to expand an existing plant or open a new one. Eg Some French investment of June 2020 has yet to come online.

The UK benefited from government investment in vaccine production before last year. We got ahead of the game.
Link

I’m still not sure what that has to do with the point I’ve made.

It does indeed take time to expand plants and capacity. Which is why more people doing it would be beneficial.

There is a block on anyone other than the candidate vaccine manufacturers (or anyone doing so under licence) from producing any of their own vaccines. As I say it’s industry standard.

Interesting thread (imho) on the history of this debacle

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/stat...577761803?s=20

Quote:

Dave Keating @DaveKeating

I keep seeing the line 'EU is having vaccine problems because it was too slow in negotiating contracts' repeated in Flag of United Kingdom&Flag of United States media.

I want to push back on this narrative because I think it's missing where real EU-level mistakes lie. Let's review what happened in past year

AstraZeneca signed purchasing agreement with EU one day before its agreement with UK.

AZ CEO told an EP hearing last month that UK priority comes from research funding agreement Oxford signed with UK gov in Jan/Feb 2020, inherited by AZ when it partnered with Oxford in May 2020.

United Kingdom was smart to start funding vax research before #Covid19 even hit Europe. But they made a consequential choice by (apparently) making funding conditional to Brits getting doses of any resulting vaccine 1st.

Germany funded BioNTech but did not include any Europe 1st clause.

Meanwhile in March 2020, President Trump tried unsuccessfully to steal BioNTech from Germany to bring it to the US.

Despite this warning, apparently nobody in EU thought it might be a bad idea for BioNTech to be partnered with Pfizer, an American company.

Germany confirms that Trump tried to buy firm working on coronavirus vaccine
CureVac boss was at the White House last week to discuss its vaccines plans.

German nationality-agnostic approach to pharma partners was not the approach used across the channel in the United Kingdom.

Oxford was originally going to partner with American company Merck. But the UK gov overruled it and made them partner with UK-based AstraZeneca

United Kingdom concern over United States vaccine nationalism turned out to be well-founded.

With BioNTech-Pfizer partnership secure, Trump seemed to be in no hurry to sign Pfizer purchase contracts.

Why? He knew a US vaccine export ban would make a contract unnecessary.

Ex-FDA chief confirms administration turned down offer to reserve additional doses of vaccine, set to be first approved for US use

Pfizer has massive production capacity in the US. If US law prevented any of those doses made on US soil from being exported, they would have to go to the US in any event.

The result can be seen in the supply chain. United States plants used to supply United States, European Union plants used to supply Europe & Africa

Sure enough, Trump signed an executive order in December 2020 giving Americans 1st priority to any vaccines made on US territory.

In fact it was largely symbolic. Trump & Biden have instead used the Defence Production Act as the legal basis for their ban.

Also in December 2020, the UK & US used the emergency use authorisation method to approve Pfizer, while the EU used the more cautious conditional marketing approval method, resulting in EU approving 2-3 weeks later.

UK gave emergency use approval to AstraZeneca on 30 December.

When the European Union gave conditional marketing approval to AstraZeneca on 29 Jan, the company informed EU it would not be meeting original dosage delivery promise because of production problems in EU plant. Seems doses to be reserved for the European Union had gone to the United Kingdom

The battle between EU & AZ began

The Commission said AZ signed a contract saying it would use all 4 of its production facilities, 2 in UK and 2 in EU, to deliver to EU - so the shortfall should be made up with exports from the UK.

AZ's CEO said they couldn't because of a 'UK 1st' clause.

Pascal Soriot: "There are a lot of emotions on vaccines in EU. But it's complicated"
An exclusive interview with AstraZeneca's CEO on the accusations from Europe after the delay of Oxford vaccine supplies, some revealing details of the vacc…

That battle has raged on without resolution. AZ will only deliver 30m out of promised 80m for Q1 and 70m of promised 180m in Q2, EC says.

Meanwhile EU has exported 10m (mostly Pfizer) doses to UK, while 'UK 1st' clause stops AZ from meeting EU delivery promise from UK plants.

Across the pond, the US export ban has meant Canada, Mexico, & Japan have to get their Pfizer doses from EU plants instead. (European Union has exported 4.6m doses to Canada, 3.8m to Mexico, 4m to Japan)

Situation particularly absurd for Canada, which must get its Pfizer from Belgium instead of next door in Michigan.

Yay for globalisation and complex supply chains, they turned out to be such a great idea ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074964)

Many countries do produce vaccines. Where is your evidence that anybody is being blocked from using any IP?
The EU has set up new sites and expanded existing ones. Their problem is they left it too late and/or are for vaccines not yet approved.
The world's third biggest vaccine maker, Sanofi of France, came up with duds. That will have delayed EU production massively. That was the "luck of the draw". AZ vaccine might have turned out to be a dud, as with Pfizer, Moderna, etc.

The EU did not order any vaccines from GSK-Sanofi. :confused:

Maybe a deal to ease some forms of Indian immigration into the UK in return:

Quote:

Boris Johnson sends envoy to seek vaccine deal with India to ease UK shortage

Prime minister’s fixer Lord Lister will visit Serum Institute where AstraZeneca jab is made

Lister and international adviser David Quarrey met India’s foreign secretary Harsh Shringla in New Delhi on Monday to “discuss bilateral relations and outcomes” for Johnson’s planned visit to the country in April, according to India’s Ministry of External Affairs.

Lister, a Conservative peer and the UK prime minister’s special envoy for the Gulf, is expected to travel from there to Pune where he will visit the Serum Institute of India, the world’s largest vaccine manufacturer and a producer of the AstraZeneca jab, said a person with knowledge of the talks.

“Eddie Lister is making a personal trip on his way to Pune to help resolve this,” the person said. “He[Lister] wants doses but the Indian government is stalling because in parliament they are questioning why are we exporting the vaccines.”

Whitehall insiders confirmed that Lister would visit the Serum Institute this week to try to broker a deal on delivery of the UK’s AstraZeneca doses.

https://www.ft.com/content/0049a35c-...d-e884672298c7

Quote:

Quote from The Sun:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1562846859

Britain would have “no choice” but to block vaccine ingredient exports to the continent if the EU triggers a full blown jab ban, The Sun can reveal.

It came as ministers vowed the UK is still on course to hit vaccine targets and Downing Street is currently confident there will be no backsliding on the road map to freedom - despite the growing war of words with Brussels.

But privately ministers warn Britain will have to retaliate if the EU blocks imports from the continent coming here.

One senior member of the government told The Sun today “politically and morally it's a no brainer” adding that “the British public would not put up” with anything else.

And today the two sides inched closer to a vaccine war after Angela Merkel swatted away the PM's pleas to step back from the brink.

The EU would be the big looser here as the Pfizer vaccine is dependent upon supplies of a critical component from the UK as they've bad-mouthed the AZ one.

Still a load of Nationalist tripe and politicians trying to play it for themselves. The virus and it's variants don't care about petty politics. No country is immune in the long run if the virus isn't tackled everywhere and we don't work together and share resources/vaccines.

As ever, together we win, divided we lose. Humanity will never learn, which will lead to our ultimate downfall, whether it's a virus or more likely climate change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36075007)

If both sides are willing to play the way you recommend, then fine. But if the EU wanted to cooperate, it wouldn't be behaving so badly now.

If we'd joined forces with the EU as you suggested, we'd be right up shit street nix paddle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36075005)

The EU would be the big looser here as the Pfizer vaccine is dependent upon supplies of a critical component from the UK as they've bad-mouthed the AZ one.

We all lose in such situations but AstraZeneca gets over 70% of its vaccine ingredients from the EU. In contrast, we supply the EU with just 17% of the ingredients used to make its vaccines.

The UK is indeed one of the suppliers for the Pfizer vaccine (lipid nanoparticles) but Merck now also produces the same ingredient in the EU.

https://cadmus.eui.eu//handle/1814/70363

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36075028)

Only in several months time.

Quote:

Merck and BioNTech are further expanding their strategic partnership. Merck, in close collaboration with BioNTech, will significantly accelerate the supply of urgently needed lipids and increase the amount of lipid delivery towards the end of 2021.

Quote:

Lipids are critical to the drug delivery system of mRNA therapies to the body for a vaccine to be effective. Only very few companies in the world are currently able to produce custom lipids in significant quantities and according to the highest quality requirements needed for vaccine production.

100% of Pfizer vaccine production is dependent on the UK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36075031)

Only in several months time.

100% of Pfizer vaccine production is dependent on the UK.

And banning imports to the Uk would only put them a week ahead of where they are now, it's all professional blow hardery in the wake of a pretty shambolic effort so far

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36075031)

Only in several months time.

100% of Pfizer vaccine production is dependent on the UK.

They're accelerating production hence they're supplying Pfizer currently; ensuring that 100% of Pfizer vaccine is not dependent on the UK.

Quote:

Merck, in close collaboration with BioNTech, will significantly accelerate the supply of urgently needed lipids and increase the amount of lipid delivery towards the end of 2021.

The U.K would have to respond in kind but it's probably best to be cautious before the Government starts sabre-rattling. I think the EU leadership would want nothing better than for Boris Johnson to start making counter-threats and turn this into a Britain vs EU thing for the benefit of their domestic audience.

The U.K should wait and see what they actually do. Then see if it does actually impact us. If they do a tokenistic block of some vaccines from some factories then we should roll our eyes and take the moral high ground leaving the EU looking petulant and ineffective.

If they do start making a notable impact on our vaccine supply and schedules then we have to respond by blocking the export of the ingredients needed. We should also make overtures to European-based pharmaceutical companies to move more production to the U.K on the promise we won't block them from honoring their contracts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36075040)

They're accelerating production hence they're supplying Pfizer currently; ensuring that 100% of Pfizer vaccine is not dependent on the UK.

It was recently been confirmed on ITV news that an essential component is only produced in the UK and the US.
Link

Quote:

The East Yorkshire headquartered smart science specialist is supplying an ingredient used in the Pfizer BioNtech Covid-19 vaccine.
The carrier is used to transport the vaccine's active element into the body.
It is produced at sites in the UK and US.

Link

Quote:

The contract with Pfizer runs for five years and awards Croda an initial supply contract for four component excipients - described as the vehicle to transfer the drug - for the first three years of the contract. Demand remains subject to relevant approvals.

4 different lipids are used for the Pfizer vaccine. Others must be used for other products.

Link

Quote:

Lipids
(4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis (ALC-3015)
(2- hexyldecanoate),2-[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide (ALC-0159)
1,2-distearoyl-snglycero-3-phosphocholine (DPSC)
cholesterol

Link

Quote:

Via its newly acquired subsidiary, Avanti Polar Lipids, Croda has agreed to supply novel excipients used in the manufacture of Pfizer’s mRNA COVID-19 vaccine candidate, for which 90% effectiveness has been claimed in human tests. The five-year deal includes an initial supply contract for four component excipients for the first three years.

"Novel" as in new.

---------- Post added at 01:15 ---------- Previous post was at 00:58 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36075059)

My point over this, is that the EU goes on about reciprocity, when the UK is supplying 100% of an essential component for the Pfizer vaccine.
In general for a limited production product, it is first ordered, first supplied. The UK has ordered 100m doses of the AZ vaccine. The language used at the time of the pre-order strongly implied that the UK was at the head of the queue for being supplied. That was 3 months before any EU-related deal.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...zeneca-vaccine

Americans kicking up a fuss (again) about Astrazenica paperwork from the clinical trial, potentially using outdated data that could skew efficacy and urging them to "ensure the most accurate, up-to-date efficacy data be made public as quickly as possible".

Be interesting to see if this holds up FDA approval.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36075064)

It was recently been confirmed on ITV news that an essential component is only produced in the UK and the US.
Link

Two months plus ago is a long time in Covid vaccination production. ;) My understanding is that Merck is now a parallel supplier to Croda and ramping up production all the time. However, putting this aside, Pfizer is a US company and its EU plant produces vaccine for all countries outside the US. Yes, even Canada has to get its Pfizer vaccines delivered from Belgium! For this reason, I am sure that Pfizer could tap its US supplier to temporarily fill a gap in UK supply. But I am happy to go on record and predict that Pfizer exports to the UK will not be banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36075064)

Hugh cited the journalist Dave Keating's Tweet yesterday reiterating the EU deal was signed a day before the UK one. We all agree that the UK deal was more tightly worded meaning that no Covid 19 vaccines have been exported from the UK whilst needed in this country. By contrast, the EU has exported some 41 million vaccine doses with a quarter of these going to the UK.