Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Please everyone, stop doing this. Just change your terms and conditions, it is BT's responsibility not to intercept your communications as a result of those terms, not your responsibility to send BT a list of sites for blacklisting.

By emailing them you are playing right into their hands because when someone who hasn't been added to the blacklist, but has changed their terms takes BT to court, BT will just say they should have asked to be included on the blacklist.

So PLEASE stop!

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What you could do, which is what I did with the DPA letter to VM, was just tell them I refused Phorm permission to data-mine our sites - but as I didn't tell them which sites those are, it's now up to them to check. (All three sites now have 'Phorm denial' statements on the home page).

Colin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

People need to realise that it is not -their- responsibility to make Phorm's technology legal, it is the ISP's responsibility. They have to get your consent to intercept your communications, their rubbish about implied consent from web publishers is exactly that, rubbish. The only reason I am suggesting people explicitly deny consent on their web pages is to just guarantee that the ISP cannot even go near the implied consent argument for their defence.

Contacting the ISPs and asking to be added to a blacklist is insane. What are you going to do if the technology gets deployed by more and more ISPs around the world? Are you going to write to every single one to get added to yet another blacklist?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi, I'm a new poster to this forum, although I have been following it for some weeks, ever since the BT forums stopped being helpful.

I find the amount of effort put into this topic amazing, thank you.

I hope you don't mind the perspective of a frustrated and worried BT user in your discussions.

One aspect (as a BT ADSL+ user) bothers me: - ignoring cable connections, which are available only in urban areas, there are 5592 internet-providing exchanges in the UK. Of these 3756 or 67% have no LLU services, in other words internet users have no option but BT for high speed connections. (Info from samknows.com)

All these users are totally dependent on an opt-in solution (or a complete retreat) to avoid being malphormed. I am one of them.

As I understand it we cannot block Webwise or we will get no service, so if webmasters see blocking BT as an option, the users of 3756 exchanges will be denied access to their sites. I am sure BT are aware of this.

It must be in the interests of these users that your campaign to stop Phorm in its tracks succeeds. Strength to your bow.

Please let me know if I have misinterpreted anything.

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well the ISPs using BT Wholesale products should not be affected. The system BT are planning to deploy is for the BT retail side of things only. There would be an ISP revolution if BT started to force this technology at the BT Wholesale level.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

Speaking of BT. Has anyone seen their latest TV commercial? They are pushing the whole idea of protecting children from malicious websites so that parents don't need to worry about supervising them. This is bad from the perspective that they will use the Webwise "anti-phishing" system to promote this but it is also good in that regarding the questions about child consent over the past couple of days; BT are indicating that parents don't need to supervise their children online because BT makes it safe, so it weakens any argument about parental responsibility with regards age of consent.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I saw this earlier and immediately thought of it as a backdoor promotion of their fabulous all singing all dancing anti-phishing sideshow.

Its pretty dangerous too, completely delegating childrens on-line safety to any third party software is absolutely no substitute for keeping a personal eye on them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It would be worth any parents sending a registered letter to their children's schools stating that if the school are using an ISP which has deployed Phorm or other such technology that they deny consent for their children to use the school's computer facilities because of the Webwise system.

I know many schools use BT and VM network peering so this is a big issue that needs to be addressed. I will be writing to BECTA about this very issue next week. It might be worth starting a pressure group called something like "Parents against Phorm" too.

Let's not forget that children are already regarded as susceptible to advertising which is why tobacco adverts have been banned and there have been restrictions placed on advertising for things like Alcopops. So the very concept of profiling children to target them with behavioural advertising is a serious concern before you even take age of consent into consideration.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As being another one of those people affected by the inland revenue data disc loss last year i have written to the ico and brought up this subject and other issues and will await a reply and let you guys know :).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I return today from Wales and am struggling to get upto phorm :) ok you guys went into overdrive while I was away looks like I needa few days to catch up unless theire is a quick summery of important stuff..

What books are left on Alexanders wish list? Lost the link :(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome back Florence,

You can find the list here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/...ndard&x=5&y=10

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

[QUOTE=AlexanderHanff;34533634]Well the ISPs using BT Wholesale products should not be affected. The system BT are planning to deploy is for the BT retail side of things only. There would be an ISP revolution if BT started to force this technology at the BT Wholesale level.

Alexander Hanff

Alexander,

Sorry if I'm being thick, but I have always considered myself, as a private individual, to be a BT Retail customer, along with those other private individuals on those 3756 exchanges who will be affected.

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

[QUOTE=dallan;34533743]BT is split into different sectionis there is BT wholesale that supplies internet to smaller ISPs. This is where people pay such as Aquiss, Ident Fast.co.uk for the internet not BT.

BT retail where customers pay them for the BB connection.

The latest split was openreach who deal with faults reconnection of BT lines etc

Then you have LLU

BT can put phorm on their Retail section but it would be illegal for them to do this to the Wholesale section or LLU sections as the customers are not officially BT customers.

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ----------

Thank you Alexander.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The big expensive one has come down to 87 quid. I will use the gift voucher one of the users here sent me and snag that one tomorrow whilst the price is so low.

Alexander Hanff