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-   -   Christians arrested for defending their beliefs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33655587)

Pierre 08-12-2009 13:01
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34923342)
Context?
Was it 'you are a terrorist and a murderer' or 'you could be a terrorist and a murderer hidden under those garments' or 'there are people who dress the way you are, that are terrorists and murderers' etc, etc, etc.
Indeed, there is no point in trying fathom what was actually said and how it was said, unless you were actually there.

nomadking 08-12-2009 13:06
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 34923344)
Indeed, there is no point in trying fathom what was actually said and how it was said, unless you were actually there.
Yet certain people are doing just that, it's case of 'wilfully to misunderstand'(I love the phrase from Jane Austen).

I find it highly unlikely that they would refer to someone actually being a terrorist and a murderer.

Hugh 08-12-2009 13:48
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34875432)
So it seems possible that they weren't even the ones to bring up religion in the first place. So it may be, that they were the ones that had their religion insulted first, but as as they are not fascists they didn't complain to the Police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34923342)
Context?
Was it 'you are a terrorist and a murderer' or 'you could be a terrorist and a murderer hidden under those garments' or 'there are people who dress the way you are, that are terrorists and murderers' etc, etc, etc.
Nice to see you keeping an open mind on this ;)

You may wish to contact the defence team, to offer your assistance. :D

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34923349)
Yet certain people are doing just that, it's case of 'wilfully to misunderstand'(I love the phrase from Jane Austen).

I find it highly unlikely that they would refer to someone actually being a terrorist and a murderer.
May I ask why you think that? Are you a close personal friend, and know them so well?

Or is it just something you would like to believe, as it supports your proposition, without any evidence to support that proposition.

nomadking 08-12-2009 14:26
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34923371)
Nice to see you keeping an open mind on this ;)

You may wish to contact the defence team, to offer your assistance. :D

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------


May I ask why you think that? Are you a close personal friend, and know them so well?

Or is it just something you would like to believe, as it supports your proposition, without any evidence to support that proposition.

Quote:
A Muslim woman was asked by a Christian hotelier if she was a terrorist and a murderer because she was wearing Islamic dress, a court has been told
Like that evidence? 'If' being the operative word.

Is it so difficult to understand that most people would not call somebody 'a terrorist and a murderer'.

Stuart 08-12-2009 14:34
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34923388)
Like that evidence? 'If' being the operative word.

Is it so difficult to understand that most people would not call somebody 'a terrorist and a murderer'.
Most people wouldn't. This court case is to determine if someone did..

Chris 08-12-2009 14:35
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34923388)
Like that evidence? 'If' being the operative word.

Is it so difficult to understand that most people would not call somebody 'a terrorist and a murderer'.
That's the testimony of the woman who made the complaint. How reliable it is as 'evidence' will be tested in due course, under cross-examination and, I assume, by the presentation of other, independent witnesses.

Flyboy 08-12-2009 16:46
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 34923342)
Context?
Was it 'you are a terrorist and a murderer' or 'you could be a terrorist and a murderer hidden under those garments' or 'there are people who dress the way you are, that are terrorists and murderers' etc, etc, etc.
And why would any of those options justify them saying it?

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

I would have thought that the prosecution would have reviewed the statements of the victim and those of any witnesses. If the prosecution witnesses did not agree with her account, I wouldn't have thought there would be much point in continuing with the prosecution.

Hugh 08-12-2009 18:13
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
BBC update

Quote:
Guests at the hotel told the court that Mrs Tazi was left distraught by the row.
Pauline Tait, 52, a committed Christian, described it as "a very upsetting and volatile exchange".
Another guest, Shirley Tait, said she was in her bedroom when she heard Mr Vogelenzang shouting the words "nazi" and "warlord".
btw, the Christian Institute, who are funding the defendants' lawyers, were prominent outside the Liverpool Magistrates' Court, wearing t-shirts and carrying banners displaying the words "Free Speech". They didn't seem to support free speech when they protested and tried to take legal action against "Jerry Springer, the Opera". In fact, Colin Hart, the Director of the Christian Institute, said
Quote:
Genuine religious debate and criticism is one thing, but this public service broadcast was an offensive, spiteful, systematic mockery and wilful denigration of Christian belief
Oh, the irony......

Russ 08-12-2009 18:22
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
From what I've read about this case I'm getting the impression they could well be guilty.

frogstamper 09-12-2009 04:52
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 34923511)
From what I've read about this case I'm getting the impression they could well be guilty.
Guilty or not Russ you can bet your last pound that this couple will be portrayed as "hard done by" and "down-trodden" in the Mail and Sun when the trial finishes.
And that the muslim women will be portrayed as some English hating, Burka wearing enemy within.:rolleyes:

ntluser 09-12-2009 06:42
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Does seem that it's not so much that they defended their faith but rather that they attacked someone else's.

Christianity preaches tolerance and the application of religious principles in daily life.In this instance the tolerance was clearly not applied.

Flyboy 09-12-2009 10:08
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Not that the "Christian" Institute really gives a damn about that.

Russ 09-12-2009 10:13
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 34923799)
Not that the "Christian" Institute really gives a damn about that.
Actually they do but I feel their motives and methods are (putting it politely) highly misguided and questionable.

Flyboy 09-12-2009 10:15
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
I didn't think anyone thought that the religious arm of the British Nazi Party was that interested in "tolerance."

danielf 09-12-2009 10:18
Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34923726)
And that the muslim women will be portrayed as some English hating, Burka wearing enemy within.:rolleyes:
She is English, and a recent convert to Islam. In fact, she describes herself as a 'regular Warrington girl that likes the Beatles'. Mr. Vogelenzang on the other hand is a bloody foreigner...


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