Re: Coronavirus
 

A great resource. Denmark now looks to be the best-performing EU country at 1.76 doses per 100 people and sixth overall just behind the USA.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe relaxing restrictions at Christmas wasn't such a good idea if its cost thousands of lives.
Should have celebrated it when the all the vaccinations were done. God would understand, though if he does exist he's got a few questions answer....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Christmas restrictions were loosened on the basis of the data at the time. It was tightened up again as the threat of the variant strain came into view. All 4 UK nations agreed and acted similarly in this regard, with local variations consistent with their circumstances. None of them has any political reason to agree for the sake of agreement so perhaps it’s actually easier, and more consistent with the evidence, to accept that hindsight is a wonderful thing and leave it at that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was a stupid idea (by all 4 nations) to relax restrictions at the time and its had a cost now. Not worth it. Its not hindsight, it was bleeding obvious.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What was also bleeding obvious was that people were going to ignore rules in significant numbers in any case, and the governments faced the unsavoury prospect of criminalising a lot of people for celebrating Christmas. The compromises were carefully constructed and reasonable at the time. Though if something was bleeding obvious to you that seems to have escaped so many others, your talents are clearly wasted posting self-congratulatory messages on the internet. You should run for office and show them all a thing or two.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Worth noting that the increase in figures, for cases and deaths, was already baked in from events before 25th December.

Schools being kept open at all costs when they are clearly driving infections has far more to answer than the single day of some household mixing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Put the vaccine in the beer and open the pubs. Jobs a good'n. :beer: :drunk:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good to see that we're now requesting negative Covid 19 results before accepting travellers into the UK. Can't understand why we delayed on this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55582116

Re: Coronavirus
 

The belief was that the risk of false negatives creating a false sense of security was too high. In theory, arrivals self-isolating is foolproof because it catches everyone. In practice we now know people are selfish gits who won’t do what they’re told.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What was bleeding obvious was that none of us should have bothered because of selfish pricks and I don't believe the compromise was reasonable, it was irresponsible, if they had to give any advice it should have been don't do it or people will die but because bozo couldn't face upsetting people or leading the party that cancelled Christmas 1 in 20 Londoners now have it

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I agree, but testing would be important for ‘air bridges’ where self isolating isn’t mandatory. I know there are very few now (none?).

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was perfectly reasonable. No one was forced to do anything.
If you wanted to cower in the corner, thats fine, you were free to do so.
The rest of us had a good day, following reasonable rules.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Being a key worker I don't have the option of cowering in the corner and I'm glad you had a good day, let's hope no one died for it

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course they didnt.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Self-isolation is all a bit weird. The person self-isolating still uses the same facilities and breathes the same air as the household they are staying with in communal areas. They could have no symptoms and pass it onto members of the household who then pass it onto vulnerable people. Hence, why I believe tests are a good idea.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure the Christmas jollities played no part in todays record number of Covid cases and deaths, we probably caught the virus off guard as it would never expect such a great opportunity to happen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Given that the record numbers are in the areas that were already in T4, and had no 'jollies', yes.

Its also almost certain that most (if not all) of those deaths were people already in hosptial before xmas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Does that mean, since the infection and hospitalisation rates have accelerated since then the death rate will keep rising?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55594107

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not the deaths now that are a consequence of Christmas - it's the ones in two weeks or so, that said we've implemented the 28 day cut off to massage the figures.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Probably, but thats not relevant to the point in question.

They have not shot up because a few people had a day of extra mixing with [some of] their families (in none T4 areas).

For that matter, they are not currently accelerating everywhere either.
In my local authority area (which is not small btw), cases have actually being going down since Dec 28th. There have 2 deaths recorded in 2021.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is there any data/figures for the deaths caused by covid alone, without the person having any other underlying conditions?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Probably not, as that wouldn’t make it look as bad as it does, and we need to keep the country at peak fear.

At least this new variant seems to rippping through the population at a pace, vaccination + infection at this speed and we’ll all be done by spring!

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the 15 February deadline is met for treating the elderly and vulnerable, hospital admissions will reduce drastically by the turn of the month and we should be able to end the lockdown and ease the restrictions. By April, I don't see the need for any restrictions at all, provided that deadline is met and the variants don't start getting up to further mischief, like attacking the younger people as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why would all the Governments of the world, even the ones who hate each other, do this?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Somewhat over-optimistic on many fronts.

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------

The capitalist driven, socialist revolution of course!

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the elderly and vulnerable are all treated by 15th February, why do you propose locking down the country in March?

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

I'm guessing that Pierre thinks that we need to exaggerate the global pandemic as people wouldn't comply with the restrictions if we told it "accurately".

Re: Coronavirus
 

I see they've wheeled out lizard man to front a new covid message: If you go out people will die. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

He lost all credibility when he wheeled out his bull shyte graphs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Governments do have a tough balancing act when it comes to their messaging as the general public are terrible and understanding risk and tend to be quite parochial, only seeing what is around them.

In real terms, the chance of any one individual dying of COVID are pretty small. However, the population is big so even with a small fatality rate, the numbers get big very quickly with the effects that come with that. If people think that the risk is small, they haven’t heard of anyone dying around them, they will start to say ‘I will take my chances’ and that’s where trouble lies. Or put it another way, with an infection fatality rate of 1% things don’t sound too bad until you extrapolate to the entire population of the UK and you have 650,000 deaths if everyone caught it.

Of course, each person does their own risk assessment. You see it on this forum with different levels of concern. For a country wide communication, you need to really hit out at the least risk averse and it seems like an increasingly powerful message is needed.

Of course, the consequence of this is scaring the bejeesus out of people who were already concerned. This will have a knock on effect down the line when things ease up and we want to kick start the economy. We did this last time, effectively bribing people to come out and be economically active with the Eat Out to Help Out scheme (of course, this may of restarted the transmission in the UK but that’s a different thing)

Finding the right balance to get the least risk averse to toe the line while not scaring the more meek is a tough one!

---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

One follow up thought, a lot of people are not happy with the governments interfering in their life and lifestyle - no one tells me what to do, it’s not the Goverments job to restrict liberty, etc. The upshot of behaviours leading from this, breaking lockdowns, taking risks and all that will increase the chances of goverment interference when you end up in hospital. We take the NHS for granted as that ‘always there’ safety net

Re: Coronavirus
 

Liz Windsor and Phil the Greek have had their jabs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55602007

Re: Coronavirus
 

A well timed announcement..Hopefully this will reasure the older people who have been reluctant to have the Covid vaccination. My Doctor's practice has been quite worried about the numbers who have refused to have it done, so much scaremongering going about.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I bet they don't wait 12 weeks for their second dose.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That didn't take long did it;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Control. An afraid population is easier to control.

---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:41 ----------

You could put it that way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But what about the autocratic Governments that already control their population - what's in it for them, as they already have that power?

Are all the Pharma/Biosimilar companies part of this conspiracy as well, including all the virologists and epidemiologists who don't work for them?

Does that mean there aren't all those sick people in hospitals all over the world, and that all the medics in all the countries are lying?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why would countries like New Zealand work so hard to eliminate the virus in that case and not just let a few cases in, and bring in restrictions all over again?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can never have too much power

What conspiracy?

No, why would you suggest that?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The hospitals are reaching a crisis point. What would you want them to do differently? I am struggling to see what exactly you're objecting too in these threads because you complain about the government/NHS not having a plan whilst seeming to suggest the Government are scaremongering even as the cases and deaths go off the chart.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When this all started there was media coverage all over the news ,now there is just words ,maybe if these hospitals at "crisis" point were televised live it might go some way to convince people it was true.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do you mean like there was on the BBC news yesterday?

---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it was inside a covid ward then yes but show more

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, it was.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I can't get away from the coverage of the pandemic on the BBC or Sky or any other media outlet so I can't see your point.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No change there then.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Manchester Evening News has published an article to-day written by David Oliver who is an experienced NHS Consultant Physician and medical writer from Manchester.


It's quite a long article but having closely followed this thread from its first post through to the this morning's posts I I have a good idea which of oiur members will bother to read it and which will dismiss it immediatly because for various reasons they consider that what they are being told is either downright lies meant o scare the "poor gulible fools who cower away behind the barracades" or the "I know better than all the experts and I refuse to accept that there is a problem or worse still the " well if I don't actually know any one who died and everyone I know who got wasn't that ill" so why do I have follow any guidelines.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s-who-19584621

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The two don’t have to be interlinked.

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but the government have an issue with population adherence therefore it suits to keep them scared, scared enough to stay at home.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Up to now, I still don't know of anyone in family, friends or work that have been hospitalised by the virus.

I know of people at work who have taken time off (with pay) after testing positive (asymptomatic)*, or have been in contact with those who have tested positive.

I do however, hear lots of gossip about who has what where and when, including the death of a chap at the end of our road, who I saw miraculously walking his dog later that day.

I'm not a Covid denier, I just happen to not live in a large city, which I think makes a huge difference on your experience of it.

*at a time when only those displaying symptoms were supposedly tested.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Likewise, but as I’ve mentioned on here before I only know of two people that have had it and that was in March 2020.

Mrs Pierres friend is a teacher in Bradford and it’s a different story over there, the large Asian population has been hit very hard with nearly all children in her school losing a family member.

So I think where you are makes a massive difference to your experience.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

This lengthy but very interesting read in the (gritted teeth) Guardian is well worth a look:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...d-combat-covid

Despite institutional resistance to properly funded studies the evidence for vitamin D supplements in reducing Covid-19 mortality is mounting. Vitamin D deficiency is a particular winter problem above 40° latitude and especially those living at these latitudes with darker skin pigmentation as this makes natural synthesis of vitamin D more difficult.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The link between Vitamin D and Covid-19 is covered in the following article, which I am sure I posted a link to in late December, which also gives details of some of the trials and studies that have been done.

https://healthinsightuk.org/2020/10/...covid-fighter/

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder if that means that those who were slathering themselves with SPF50 all last summer are more likely to go down with covid? :scratch:

Re: Coronavirus
 

No social distancing taking place in Crosby as hundreds of football fans throng on the streets. :rolleyes:


https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/01/3.jpg

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's because the Spurs team bus took the dock road exit out of the Mersey Tunnel and just kept driving :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

My home town team. I used to go there every once in a while (usually when Everton reserves were playing against them, or in pre-season friendlies)


Dream result is for Marine to win and tie Everton in the next round.

Re: Coronavirus
 

VitD - I am participating in the CovitD survey and my Vit D was low so have been given 6 month supplement - must be working no sign of Covid yet :P

I've had reports of how some store keepers in some areas are keeping open by converting their shops into food stores that also stock whatever they want to sell. This was less recent so I think should be being dealt with by now.

Hoping I can still travel to my dental appointment later this week and in 2 weeks for followup. Have a tooth that is fracturing needing a crown. Dentist is still open and I've been with practice over 30 years paying into their scheme. Can't see much additional risk in driving in my metal box for hour or so and entering controlled environment and driving in my metal box for 15 mins and entering controlled environment. Better for me to get it sorted BEFORE it breaks up and I need to find emergency treatment somewhere.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Private Eye have printed a spoof article, written as if Christopher Hitchens (an avid anti-lockdowner and downplayer of the impact of COVID) was writing articles in 1940...

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1610362954

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Never been a fan or Private Eye, I see I'm not missing much.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Peter not Christopher. Christopher is dead.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I had to pop into Sainsbury's for bread & milk, the store as a sigh asked for 1 person shoppers, but obviously this didn't apply to the groups of 2+ that roamed the store, then there where the usual maskless and those that had masks under their noses.


Hopefully the government is going to get shops to police the covidiots and stop them entering the stores.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thank you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm almost certain that any shop already has the power to decide who they let enter and always have.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe shop at Morrisons if there's one in your area?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...ks/ar-BB1cEyLr

Re: Coronavirus
 

They do* as they are private property.

* Unless the denial of entry is related to a person being in one of the Protected Groups. Some stores have now started a no ifs, no buts, no mask=no entry policy. However, if someone is exempt and refused admission, this could well be a breach of the Equality Act and stores are laying themselves open to legal action.

It doesn't help that the Government haven't created a way for such people to easily provide proof that they are exempt (nor are they required to do so).

Re: Coronavirus
 

The store has some leeway here because mask-wearing is now written into law. A prosecution would be difficult. Much would depend on how the initial challenge was presented and what the store did with the response. I suspect that Morrisons is not simply going to let someone in if they claim to have asthma or a hidden disability because the kind of people who think they're above the law are also not above lying through their teeth to get their way. They might on the other hand offer to set up a home delivery, click and collect or other such help which would make a charge of discrimination even harder to make stick. I suspect most if not all people with a genuine reason not to wear a mask wold be happy for the assistance, unless of course they were on a militant quest to catch the store out and bring a malicious prosecution.

My personal experience of this (and I know personal perception of disability isn't everything) is that you can usually spot who are the Karens and the angry 50-something Freemen-on-the-land, and who those with genuine issues are. A lot of people voluntarily availed themselves of sunflower lanyards early in the first lockdown.

Re: Coronavirus
 

NEW: Police withdraw fines for coffee ladies in derbyshire last week... “Two fixed penalty notices that were handed to two women who had travelled to Foremark Reservoir on Thursday have been withdrawn and we have notified the women directly, apologising for any concern caused."

Re: Coronavirus
 

Absolutely right. This was a total overreaction to an utterly low risk situation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The risk level is completely irrelevant. Whose to say they hadn't also at some time carried out riskier behaviour? If more people acted in that way, then more people would be in those locations, and it would no longer be "low risk".
Is the level of risk was to be a factor, then theoretically, I could go wherever I liked for a few days, as currently there is zero possibility of me having the virus. How would that go for everybody else?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ireland moves to number one. :(

Re: Coronavirus
 

This could be why
Coronavirus: Boris Johnson criticised over bike ride seven miles from home

A Downing Street spokesman would not confirm if Mr Johnson had been driven to the park, but said he had complied with Covid-19 guidelines.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55620138

Re: Coronavirus
 

One key difference is that he was actually exercising, THEY WEREN'T. Another is as he has had the virus, he should no longer be able to reach the stage of being infectious to others.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Walking is exercise, isn't it?
The reason they were fined was the police felt they shouldn't have driven to the exercise site.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55625062

Re: Coronavirus
 

Gib’s number 1

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...pe-by-country/

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is no law against driving to a site for exercise. The police still overreacted in the most Stasi way.

When you see the people crowded cheek by jowl in Hyde park, full car parks and not a copper in sight you know that they're priorities are not right.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't think the issue with the Stasi was fines ;) But the police obviously misjudged matters here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Depends on the walking. How about walking around inside your home? They were carrying takeaway hot drinks, so exercising wasn't their priority. They must've met up to get the drinks before going out "walking". They were wearing wellington boots, hardly footwear suitable for power walking. It was TWO households meeting up. Against the rules, whatever way you try to twist it.

---------- Post added at 19:36 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

They WEREN'T exercising. They were meeting up in a place where they thought they could get away with it.:mad:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do you read any of the stuff you post?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Jesus......judge jury and executioner right here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thats Derbyshire police for you, the same muppets that were following people with drones in the summer.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

I think he has lockdown fever, perhaps he needs a walk. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

But

Shop staff are not qualified to determine who are exempt and who aren’t.

It’s a headline designed to deter people that’s all, it won’t be implemented. I reckon I could walk into Morrison’s next week without a mask if I so wished, tell the guy at the door I’m an asthmatic ( I’m not) and be allowed to go about my shopping.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course, there is also nothing to stop people taking them off once past the door.

There are also people who genuinely just forget, Ive done that at least twice when out shopping.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do you actually read and comprehend the linked articles?
Link

They WEREN'T 2 strangers that were accidentally at the same location.:rolleyes: How is that NOT a meeting between two households?

You DON'T start off "exercising" by having a hot drink. You might need a drink AFTER exercising, but not before. They were BOTH wearing wellington boots, not hiking boots or other footwear suitable for "exercising".
The main issue was the meeting up. One household "exercising" on their own might be a different matter.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Current rules

They were within their local area, and has been pointed out many times, there are actually no distance limits as such.

You're grasping at straws to defend a stupid over-reaction, why ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Peak fear Paul, Peak fear.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is that the "Cape Fear" remake set in Derbyshire?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Certainly is, directed by a local fella “kinder Scout”. And produced by “Mam Tor”.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You do wonder if the charges would have been have dropped as quickly if it was a couple of scallies with cans of Monster rather than a couple of middles class ladies..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Probably not but what's the purpose of the state broadcaster if it's not to highlight the plight of the white middle class?

Also curious if the staged photo for the BBC website was an essential journey.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was work, so yes that would have been permitted.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was probably taken at Prestop Park, about 500 metres from one of the lady’s house.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:32 ----------

How was it work for the two ladies - were they paid?

Anyway, the picture is titled "Jessica Allen (left) and friend Eliza Moore near their homes in Ashby-de-la-Zouch".

Re: Coronavirus
 

Work. :D

I almost prefer your epidemiology skills, OB.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Key workers, in fact.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The reporters are, they’re not...

Anyway, as posted earlier, it was taken near their home.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s the worker, not the work, that falls into key worker categories. Are either journalists by trade?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nobody said they were, I believe the original point was that the photo was taken by somebody working.

As OB responded to

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=2791

Re: Coronavirus
 

I questioned if their journey was essential. I offered no opinion on who took the photo.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wasn't involved.