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nomadking 16-03-2021 19:08
Re: Coronavirus
 
Really don't get the EU mentality of, Germany makes a certain decision, so everybody else has to follow suit. How about France, Italy, etc looking after the interests of their own people, rather than having to follow Germany.

Sephiroth 16-03-2021 19:20
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074481)
Really don't get the EU mentality of, Germany makes a certain decision, so everybody else has to follow suit. How about France, Italy, etc looking after the interests of their own people, rather than having to follow Germany.
Look what happened to them 80 years ago! Germany won the war.

But you're right - I'm convinced it's a politically driven situation aimed at two fingers to the UK. Well I would, wouldn't I?

What do the Remainers think?

pip08456 16-03-2021 19:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074481)
Really don't get the EU mentality of, Germany makes a certain decision, so everybody else has to follow suit. How about France, Italy, etc looking after the interests of their own people, rather than having to follow Germany.
And so it continues...

Quote:
This morning Sweden has become the latest European country to suspend use of the AstraZeneca-Oxford University vaccine. It follows reports that some people have suffered blood clots after being given the jab despite AstraZeneca's data showing there have only been 37 such reports among the 17 million people across Europe who have been given the vaccine.

Yet while some European health ministries across the continent are raising concerns about its effectiveness, others are lambasting AstraZeneca for failing to deliver enough jabs. French Europe minister Clement Beaune appeared on Radio Classique this morning and raised the prospect of the EU actually suing the company over breach of contract. Citing lower-than-expected deliveries, he claimed: 'Europe is not going to be some sort of cuddly 'care bear' that hands over its money and then expects nothing in return.' ...

...Friday 12 March: The International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostasis, representing medical experts around the world, says that ‘the small number of reported thrombotic events relative to the millions of administered Covid-19 vaccinations does not suggest a direct link.’
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...plete-timeline

Oh look.

Quote:
Russia 'Reaches Agreement' On Sputnik Vaccine With Firms From Italy, Spain, France, And Germany
https://www.rferl.org/a/31151688.html

1andrew1 16-03-2021 19:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074481)
Really don't get the EU mentality of, Germany makes a certain decision, so everybody else has to follow suit. How about France, Italy, etc looking after the interests of their own people, rather than having to follow Germany.
Those sovereign nations like non-EU nations Iceland and Norway have come to their own independent decisions and believe that they're putting their populations' interests first. I believe that they've all made very bad decisions and I hope they follow they follow EU and WHO advice and resume using the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Hugh 16-03-2021 21:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074481)
Really don't get the EU mentality of, Germany makes a certain decision, so everybody else has to follow suit. How about France, Italy, etc looking after the interests of their own people, rather than having to follow Germany.
One small problem with your statement - three other countries did it first...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56412784
Quote:
Some 13 European countries have paused their use of the vaccine. Denmark was first, followed by Norway and Iceland. Germany, France, Italy, Cyprus, Spain, Latvia and Sweden are the latest to follow suit.

On Monday, the three largest EU members - Germany, France and Italy - said they were awaiting the results of the EMA investigation before deciding whether to resume their rollout of the jab.

They said they had opted to pause their use of the drug as a "precautionary measure".
I think they’re wrong in doing what they’re doing, but they’re not "following Germany".

nomadking 16-03-2021 21:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Link

Quote:
ROME (Reuters) - The decision by Germany, France and Italy to suspend AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 shots after several countries reported possible serious side-effects is a “political one”, the director general of Italy’s medicines authority AIFA said on Tuesday.
“We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one,” Nicola Magrini told daily la Repubblica in an interview.

1andrew1 16-03-2021 22:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36074494)
AstraZeneca is an Anglo-Swedish company so why has Sweden banned it? :confused:

GrimUpNorth 16-03-2021 22:25
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36074499)
AstraZeneca is an Anglo-Swedish company so why has Sweden banned it? :confused:
Because they're part of the big conspiracy to show those blighters in blighty who's boss and make us tow the line ;).

Pierre 16-03-2021 22:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
I’m just enjoying the Schadenfreude. They are just gluttons for flumping themselves up the asp.

The attempts to discredit the AZ vaccine have been front and centre, why? Who knows, petulance? The issue is science and data is absolute and as before you will be made to look stupid.

We’ll just keep rolling on here and get the job done.

1andrew1 16-03-2021 22:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36074502)
I’m just enjoying the Schadenfreude. They are just gluttons for flumping themselves up the asp.

The attempts to discredit the AZ vaccine have been front and centre, why? Who knows, petulance? The issue is science and data is absolute and as before you will be made to look stupid.

We’ll just keep rolling on here and get the job done.
Does it not go far deeper? AstraZeneca' skills in navigating the numerous regulatory bodies' requirements appear to have been weaker than its peers. This shows in the lack of approval from countries like Switzerland and the USA which feeds through into general confidence levels by other countries where the vaccine has been approved.

Chris 16-03-2021 23:12
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36074503)
Does it not go far deeper? AstraZeneca' skills in navigating the numerous regulatory bodies' requirements appear to have been weaker than its peers. This shows in the lack of approval from countries like Switzerland and the USA which feeds through into general confidence levels by other countries where the vaccine has been approved.
AstraZeneca lacks experience in vaccine development, which is probably what's behind the inconsistencies in their phase 3 trials, which in turn led to a poorer data set that some regulators wanted to take longer to read over. Had we not been in a pandemic, and had they had the luxury of time, these shortcomings would most likely have been spotted and corrected long before any data was sent for approval.

Again, had we not been in a pandemic, the precautionary principle would absolutely favour the cautious approach shown by some national regulators. However, there is a very strong argument for saying these regulators have failed to adjust their decision-making processes to allow for the fact that we are in a pandemic in which significant numbers of people are getting very sick and dying. Even in the face of weaker efficacy data there was ample phase 2 data that amounted to indirect evidence of efficacy - the UK regulator's approach was that in these circumstances, the indirect evidence was sufficient.

The broo-ha-ha in many European countries now appears to be an unholy combination of inadequate decision making processes (still sticking doggedly to the precautionary principle, despite evidence that slowing the vaccination programme will kill more people) and regulatory over-caution thanks to the calculated political vandalism perpetrated by a few very well-placed politicians like Emmanuel Macron, a few weeks ago when the UK's successful programme needed taking down a peg or two because it was showing up the EU. As Damien observed earlier, once you let the anti-vax genie out of the bottle it is very difficult to get it back in, and I think some politicians and regulators are now over-thinking every step as they try to persuade their populations that getting vaccinated is safer than not doing so.

Mr K 17-03-2021 07:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
I see Mr Trump is now recommending his believers get the jab. Probably worried about them not surviving to the next election...
Tbh you'd have to be quite thick not to get the jab and even thicker to change your mind because Donny says so !

Hugh 17-03-2021 08:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36074506)
AstraZeneca lacks experience in vaccine development, which is probably what's behind the inconsistencies in their phase 3 trials, which in turn led to a poorer data set that some regulators wanted to take longer to read over. Had we not been in a pandemic, and had they had the luxury of time, these shortcomings would most likely have been spotted and corrected long before any data was sent for approval.

Again, had we not been in a pandemic, the precautionary principle would absolutely favour the cautious approach shown by some national regulators. However, there is a very strong argument for saying these regulators have failed to adjust their decision-making processes to allow for the fact that we are in a pandemic in which significant numbers of people are getting very sick and dying. Even in the face of weaker efficacy data there was ample phase 2 data that amounted to indirect evidence of efficacy - the UK regulator's approach was that in these circumstances, the indirect evidence was sufficient.

The broo-ha-ha in many European countries now appears to be an unholy combination of inadequate decision making processes (still sticking doggedly to the precautionary principle, despite evidence that slowing the vaccination programme will kill more people) and regulatory over-caution thanks to the calculated political vandalism perpetrated by a few very well-placed politicians like Emmanuel Macron, a few weeks ago when the UK's successful programme needed taking down a peg or two because it was showing up the EU. As Damien observed earlier, once you let the anti-vax genie out of the bottle it is very difficult to get it back in, and I think some politicians and regulators are now over-thinking every step as they try to persuade their populations that getting vaccinated is safer than not doing so.
:clap::clap::clap::clap:

jfman 17-03-2021 09:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
I see Northern Ireland which completed (both doses) to care homes at the start of February have had a reduction in deaths as a proportion of all deaths and recorded 0 in w/e 5th of March.

Meanwhile in England/Wales care home deaths stick doggedly to around 22% of all deaths every week since January to the same date. When is that expected to come down based on the dosing strategy? Will it be after the second dose I wonder...

jonbxx 17-03-2021 09:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Vaccinations now available for everyone over 50 now! Fill your boots my middle aged friends - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/corona...s-vaccination/

Booked my jab for a week on Monday with a second dose in June. Could have had the jab next week but the parking at the centre offered is really bad


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