Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35973220)

And yes, you’re right the pathetic Remainer forcasts from BoE and Treasury, don’t pass any kind of valid scrutiny. It’s just pure fiction.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35973228)

I think it's pretty much agreed that they're scenarios and not forecasts but all have passed rigorous scrutiny.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35973222)

We are all aware of your opinion on the matter.

With the best will in the world, it's not going to play out as you wish. The pieces are moving into place. Parliament is sovereign. The easiest thing to do is kick it back to the people.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35973222)

Sam Gyimah has resigned as Universities and Science Minister.
.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35973208)

One of my early forays into this thread, and two weeks later I feel like we are further from No Deal than when I typed it then.

Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35973213)

A lot of the areas in England that benefitted most from the EU funds supported leave. Where areas like the Thames Valley that did not need the EU subsidies voted remain.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35973225)

But you know that is not what he is saying don't you? The problem you have is that the 2016 vote based is on uninformed consent. The other problem is that this is not a GE where if you change your mind, you vote the idiots out in 5 years or less.

The vote was one of huge structural, social and economic significance and as such the population *must* be involved now the options are clear and present. It is quite sinister that a democracy should not allow it's population to be involved at this stage.

What is even more sinister is the relish that some express for a No Deal. The proposition that the 37% should drag the whole country down to fulfil their (to me) misplaced wishes is so wrong. This is my country, the one I and my children live in and if it is is going to be trashed, there should be a better mandate that the one currently in place.

Your indignation regarding the prospect of a second referendum is not one based on an affront to democracy. Rather it is anger: you got what you wanted after so many years and now you fear it will taken away from you.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35973240)

By biased Remainers. Who want to sabotage Brexit. The Scenarios they have presented are pure fiction, so they pass sweet FA!!!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35973248)

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. We are just a couple of weeks from a vote on the withdrawal agreement, and if they vote it down, it will be a no deal.

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It seems to me that perhaps those people living outside of England who voted remain were not clued up enough to realise that this 'EU money' actually originated from the money the UK paid out in the first place.

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No. You only want a second referendum because you didn't get what you wanted.

I find it rather worrying that someone who posts this nonsense so persistently could have not understood what 'leave' and 'remain' meant.

I certainly knew, Mick knew and everyone else who voted remain and posted on here knew. You are basically insulting 'leave' voters because you assume they must be ignorant to have voted as they did!

Priceless!

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35973255)

But but but the remain camp keep saying they didn't understand what the vote was about ,i think most of them just saw the two options as
1 remain
2 stay in
The concept of leaving went straight over their heads ,and it is still orbiting out of their reach.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35973253)

So what do you think will happen to the economy after Brexit?

The BoE are creating scenarios based on different outcomes. They are informed estimates of what would happen in those scenarios by people who are proficient in the numbers and their field.

People on here have been pretty happy with such estimates when it comes to speculation on a Corbyn government, or an Ed Miliband government, but when it comes to Brexit less so.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35973257)

Yes, it's incredible to hear so many remainers complaining now that people didn't know what 'leave' meant. What they are really saying is that they did not understand what they were voting for.

And now they are saying that Brexit cannot bring economic advantages to the UK, presumably because they have absolutely no clue, and can see only a dystopian future.

So why should we listen to them?

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35973227)

You raise many valid points.

Those who scream about democracy do so in favour of uninformed vote on a given date in 2016. They do not with to extend that luxury to an informed populace of 2019. We are derided as bitter 'remoaners' as they are terrified an informed population takes their ideals away from them. Which is fine, it makes me feel better about being on the right side of history that others disagree so strongly.

Those who scream about sovereignty do so, until they realise that Parliament is sovereign above all. If Parliament votes instruct the Government to remain, and the Government ignores the will of Parliament in favour of a non-binding advisory referendum we can look forward to a) a general election and b) a Brexit vote in 2019.

I've used the term a number of times but constitutional crisis remains the most likely option. I can't wait, as a patriot I look forward to our constitution protecting people from existential threats to our United Kingdom. :)

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35973228)

I think it's pretty much agreed that they're scenarios and not forecasts but all have passed rigorous scrutiny.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35973257)

Yes, it's incredible to hear so many remainers complaining now that people didn't know what 'leave' meant. What they are really saying is that they did not understand what they were voting for.

And now they are saying that Brexit cannot bring economic advantages to the UK, presumably because they have absolutely no clue, and can see only a dystopian future.

So why should we listen to them?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35973260)

Based on negative assumptions.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35973242)

A Remainer which goes to show what a bad deal this is, whatever side of the fence you're on.

It's only benefit is that it's better than no deal. It really has been a case of 'a crap deal is better than no deal'.

Looks doomed anyway, and MPs won't allow 'no deal' to happen. So that leaves....

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35973262)

The available analysis shows that this economic advantage will have an uplift on the economy of a fraction of a per cent whereas leaving the EU will have a negative impact of several per cent. This has been explained to you and the reasons for it have been carefully explained to you together with links explaining how trade works. But you've chosen not to believe it which is your choice. That is the reason for the divergence in views.

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Based on informed analysis and how trade works.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35973260)

The PM has clarified that there will not be a second referendum and there will not be another General Election. She could not be any clearer and yet in your world, that's the only way forward.

Here, in the real world, we are looking at a vote in Parliament shortly that will result in the withdrawal agreement being abandoned, which will simply mean a 'no-deal' Brexit.

No constitutional crisis. Just a sizeable number of politicians scratching their heads and asking themselves what was so bad about the withdrawal agreement after all.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35973264)

You keep ignoring the fact that economic analysis is only as good as the information put in. Clearly, if you put emphasis on the negatives with insufficient regard for the positives, you will get a negative result. You keep going on about these economic forecasts because they support your mindset, forgetting how wrong previous forecasts have been.

Well, some of us won't get fooled again.

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35973245)

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35973206)

You have been unable to quantify that the best thing for this country is leaving at all. Until that time, which I expect to be the day after Elon Musk dies on Mars, it's a perfectly legitimate point for anyone to hold that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland remain part of the European Union.

Indeed, legitimately, that the deal on the table furthers the cause of Irish reunification and perhaps even Scottish independence. I don't see what is patriotic about the death of our great nation.