Re: smoking and the pub
 

But to be honest I don't really know whether stopping smoking in pubs for instance is really going to address the issue. As I have said previously adults can choose (generally speaking) to sit, work etc. in a pub where smoking is permitted. (Also good filtration systems can minimise much of the smoke). Children, however, do not have such a choice. So while pubs are nice and smoke free parents are still puffing away at home or in the car around their children. As much as I would not support making smoking illegal, if the government was serious about addressing the ill effects then at least proposing this would mean it wasn't spineless. Or maybe Blair's waiting for Bush's signal ;).

Re: smoking and the pub
 

This is true to an extent, but the evidence from New York and Ireland has been that one in 12 smokers has already quit as a direct result of the ban. It's a good step in the right direction. Addiionally, the change in law sends out a signal that smoking is no longer socially acceptable, and in time that will filter through and hopefully help provide more smokers with the extra oomph they need to find the willpower to quit.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ultimately, if you drink alcohol you are only ruining your own body. If you smoke you're not only ruining your own, but everybody else's whether they like it or not. And that's not right.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Spent a few days in Largs, home to Scotland's best chippy, apparently. A lovely, scenic, rain-sodden place. You'll be pleased to hear Nardini's do a smoothie that lets you get all five daily fruit portions in a suingle glass.

We did visit Glasgow on a day where RTAs on the M8 summed up the city's dietary habits wonderfully. First a tanker shed its load of lard, then a lorry overturned its load of pop and crisps. :) BTW, does Irn Bru make your hair go ginger?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

yeah but the issue is deaths by passive smoking and 'passive' alcohol use. how many people are murdered or injuired annually due to booze and how many people die due to passive smoking or suffer illness because of it?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

This is a problem. Someone (maybe you?) said earlier that if you disallow people smoking in pubs they may be more likely to smoke at home in front of the children. Sadly that is something we cannot address without a complete ban on smoking. Unless it was made illegal to smoke in front of children, which would surely be impossible to monitor. Unfortunately this is a difficult one to deal with. I think it's appalling when people smoke in front of their kids.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Good news about the giving up rates in New York and ireland, but what about the take-up rates. Sometimes making something more socially undesiarble only serves to increase its attractiveness to those it is specifically targeted at. I'm thinking of rebelling teenagers for instance.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ah, Largs ... many a happy summer holiday have I spent there (and in the family holiday flat over the water in Millport). I know the Nardinis of which you speak. Hopefully you weren't sat in the seat our potty-training son drenched last August. :D Why suddenly like Yoda do I talk? :erm:

I remember it well. It took me months to work out why it is when you walk past a chippy in Glasgow, the smell drifting onto the street is different than anywhere else in the UK. I think they really still do fry the chips in animal fat. :erm: And Irn Bru hasn't turned me ginger yet. :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

oh my god Clarie - you were once one of 'them'! :p:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's a very good question, but given the highly-charged nature of the public debate in England this past week, I suspect if the take-up rate had increased, someone somewhere would have quoted the statistic by now in defence of their position.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Here are some more frightening statistics. Worryingly though are the facts about teenagers. By allowing smoking in pubs we are hardly sending out preventative messages to our teenagers....We need to get serious about stopping smoking and stopping the habit being formed.

Off the top of my head there are something like 1000 admissions everyday to hospitals in the UK due to smoking related diseases.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't think any smoker would be happy, or celebrate, if there was a rise in young people taking up smoking

Re: smoking and the pub
 

These stats only go to back up my previous point about making smoking more and more unattractive sometimes has the opposite effect, especially when in a rebelling mood, i.e many teenagers. Think of the times trying to sneak a quick ciggie at school without being caught for instance.

Another very salient point. While in Europe and the USA the tobacco comapnies are finding it harder and harder to ply their trade, they don't just disappear. Rather they move to developing areas of the world where perhaps the effects are not so widely publicised or the health infrastructures not in place to advise and support. So a perceived benefit here may be having a detrimental effect elsewhere.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets/html/fact03.html

Here are some facts about teens and smoking. You would have hoped that the situation would have improved over the past twenty years or so. It's not changed much though sadly.....

450 children in Great Britain start smoking EVERY DAY.....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs...assive/smoking</H2>

http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/servlets/doc/848

Now at first glance the numbers of alcohol-related violent incidents are undeniably higher than the numbers of deaths caused by passive smoking. Alcohol is clearly a problem too. But I think it difficult to compare a violent incident with a terminal illness/death. People who are violent when drunk can often be violent when sobre. Alcohol aggravates violence and whilst this needs to be addressed, it cannot and will not be addressed as easily as the problems of passive smoking.

These figures, although scary, do not detract from the imminent dangers of smoking.

To discuss this further a thread on the dangers of alcohol might be a good idea.
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Yeah! I spoke about this earlier on - I think it makes me one of the more vehement anti-smokers.