Re: Coronavirus
 

Not quite sure where you got that from. I should imagine the "clock" is restarted each time. There's no notion of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd person, just "another person".

Any transmission won't be automatic or instantaneous. It could be transferred from A to B, towards the end of the infectious phase of A, and the similarly for from B to C. You can't be sure that the household is completely clear until after 10 days of the last person to have a positive test/show symptoms. Before that time, a yet non-infected person could suddenly become infected.

Re: Coronavirus
 

From the NHS website I presume

The email sent by the junior manager says:

How Long you Need to Self- Isolate

If someone you live with has tested positive and:

They have symptoms- self isolate for 10 days from when their symptoms start

They have not had symptoms- self isolate for ten days from when they had their test

If they get symptoms while they're self- isolating the 10 days restarts from when their symptoms started

The 10 days does not restart if a different person you live with gets symptoms while you're self-isolating

No link in email annoyingly

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-19-infection

“If you live in the same household as someone with COVID-19”

Re: Coronavirus
 

Link to self-isolation rules.

The "someone" can also be the different person.
Read it as "whenever someone in your household".
Think of the situation of where there is a long gap between the events. You've finished self-isolating because of the first person, but a couple of months later, the "different" person becomes infected. Are you suggesting you shouldn't have to self-isolate because you've already self-isolated before? Wouldn't make sense.

I can sort of see where the confusion might be in the rules.
The reference to "first person in the household's" is about the start day of self-isolation.
Perhaps they shouldn't have used the word "first".
It goes on to say.
The next paragraph says.
Wouldn't make sense for that to apply other than where you have tested positive as set out in the previous paragraph.

The central point is that infections and infectious phases are not somehow synchronised within a household. Everybody doesn't get it simultaneously, and not everybody may get it at all. Whilst there is somebody in the household is in the infectious phase, there is a risk of somebody else in the household becoming infected. Doesn't matter whether that's the 1st, 2nd, or 20th person in the household in the infectious phase.

If somebody can be infectious for 8 days, they can pass it on on day 1 or day 8. Person A passes it on to B on that day 8. B then is still infectious 10 days later, and could then pass it onto C on the 18th day after the start.

Basically, self-isolate for 10 days from the last "event"(positive test or symptoms) in the household. Nothing else makes sense or will work.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I recognise this is old but the BBC in April published a graphic that indicated then that the self isolation period for those that don’t go on to develop symptoms ends based on the first case, not subsequent cases.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52366190

Re: Coronavirus
 

The PM Boris Johnson to hold press conference at 5pm with the chief medical officer for England, Professor Chris Whitty, and the Government's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55542393

Re: Coronavirus
 

Will there be charts involved ? ;)

Why on earth children were made to go back to school for one day, would be a good question ? Enough damage/spreading might have been done yesterday to keep us in lockdown for weeks longer.

And why doesn't he act on the 'science' until the last minute resulting in more cases and longer/stricter lockdowns.

Wonder if they'll ask me on ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

More bluster from the PM, flanked by tweedle dum and tweedle dummer, followed by inane questions from hack journos.

I think I'll be inspecting my belly button fluff, see if it's changed colour recently.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l would imagine Mr K as they might introduce us to some new ones.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ask if the decision to keep the schools open for one day was due to the fact the stock market was open and it'd let his pals dump shares before announcing lockdown.

Because rationally I can't see what changed between Sunday and Monday - other than giving parents false hope that the inevitable wasn't coming.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly as it was pretty obvious most knew what was coming down the road even before Christmas.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

l cannot ask him that question but l think you know the answer anyway.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

l somehow think you might be near the back of the queue on that.;)

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------

As Frodo famously says we have been here before and we keep going around in circles.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm hoping to see the stats on dead hairdressers, just how many have died from cutting hair, and how many have died from painting nails.
what's the death rate from washing cars.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’d say my barber is pretty high risk. Got to be in his 60s, could do with losing a few stone, smells of cigarette smoke.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And i presume still alive,so based on the science hairdressers are immune;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

My dentist hasn't said anything yet but has lots of equipment. He is a long drive from home but been with the practice for over 30 years and pay into their own scheme. Don't want to cancel and have tooth fracture needing emergency treatment. Medical treatment is a reason to go out though and appointments all made before lockdown.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Dental treatment continues if you're private (!). If you're NHS its just temp. repair work.
They now have PPE unlike the first lock down. Appointments take longer as they have to get tagged up, and they have to leave a 'fallow gap' between patients. Unfortunately had to go a few times in the last year. Prepare to be temperature checked and asked 20 questions before they even let you in through the front door !

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yep, I had to visit the dentist last year to get a filling repaired, you had to wait outside until they let you in (fortunately, it was in the warm summer).

Of of mine is in his late 70's, doesnt smoke though (its a father & son business).

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/u...olice-say.html

Not a shooting or bombing but attempted sabotage of 500 vaccines at a center in the USA. We are definitely going to see more of this sadly with the proliferation of bullshit on the internet.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unable to read that, it wants me to register

Re: Coronavirus
 

Proper nut jobs......the 5G, tin foil, agenda 21, anti-vaxxers, should all be castrated to save contaminating the gene pool.

Don’t get me wrong, if you don’t want to be vaccinated, that’s your choice, but you can’t go around preventing anyone else doing so.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Main bit.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well if you thought Boris's lot are making heavy weather of the vaccine roll out take a look over the Channel:

The EU was nearly a month late in passing the vaccine for use and then the individual states are making a bog of it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can't be "a month late" approving a process simply because other authorities covering other areas approved it sooner - potentially with a different threshold for authorisation.

France are clear making a hash of it but that doesn't make us "successful" and the more we spend looking down on them the longer our government get away with not taking up to the (I think) 2.34 million a week Boris needs for his latest bombastic target.

Unless of course those pesky Civil Servants are at it again...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now now, you little stirrer.

As you we were ahead as we had a rolling assessment and approval process, nothing to do with any lesser thresholds......

However, success should be celebrated, because we both know if the shoe was on the other foot oooooh, the headlines, the failure, Brexit, the incompetence.......

Re: Coronavirus
 

I bet the civil service have something to do with it. If you have to have "Radicalisation" training to be able to register to give vaccines it's unlikely that that has come down from ministers. It could well be part of "normal" medical checks but it doesn't take too much sense to apply requirements suitable to the role, e.g. anaphylaxis, CPR, giving injections etc.

Part of the problem it tracking who has had what. It could be relatively easy to put a vaccination station in places where people flow through and jab those who need it but how do you deal with those who don't want it (yet), ensuring it's safe for the person, reacting to issues. Dentists and places like that would also be good, they are trained to give injections etc but all the other factors come into play.

(And don't forget you need the machine to activate the mind control chip and ensure it's working, they aren't cheap you know!)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here's the full list:

Obviously the medical stuff is important but fire safety?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here's a good article on which countries have responded best to the pandemic. Only two are in Asia.
Crushing the curve: New Zealand
Best early action: Taiwan
Best testing: South Korea
Public communication: Finland
Economic protection: Denmark
Best vaccination: Israel
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status...153536/photo/1

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bit different from schooldays then it was

1 sleeve up

2 shut up

3 get out
Next

Re: Coronavirus
 

anything other than medical training is totally superfluous

Re: Coronavirus
 

There can be quite big differences in the approval processes for drugs in different countries (and blocs of countries)

For example, the FDA (USA) assesses the efficacy and safety of a drug alongside the permitted prescribing information (who can have the drug, what conditions mean you can't and how the drug should be administered as examples) The EMA in contrast has a stepwise process where safety and efficacy are assessed first, then the marketing information. In another example, the EMA look for and do a lot more risk assessments than the FDA ('based on the known science and what limited trial information we have, is this drug safe for patients with disease x, y or z')

The EMA uses local country assessors for drugs alongside their central assessors to ensure that their decisions are compatible with local regulations and guidelines. This of course will slow approval but the advantage is there is a single market for drugs so they can be targeted to the regions of greatest need (if you like that kind of thing) With the MHRA, this 'cross-approval' wasn't needed, hence the faster approval.

There are moves to create a global standard of drug approval so the information package the pharma companies need to provide is constant (https://www.ich.org/) but this has been going on for years with only limited success

Re: Coronavirus
 

Were we ahead though? As far as I can tell ours is for emergency use and could be withdrawn at any time. The European authorisation appears more comprehensive to me as it doesn't appear to describe it as emergency use. I think for example our 'emergency use' exempts manufacturers from liability - I'm not sure that's the case for the EU authorisation.

I'm sure neither you nor I know the detailed process of going through authorisation - therefore it's an assumption to believe our process is better because it's British - I know it's the default position for many on the forum but I tend to take a more cynical view.

Success should indeed be celebrated, however token administrative processes aren't my benchmark unfortunately. Getting to 2 million vaccinated a week in timely fashion, I'm sure you would agree, would be success.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I quite agree, however the nature of some people to make a claim for anything nowadays has given rise to this ridiculous situation where all bases need to be covered by being 'trained' in some really obscure and often unrelated areas. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought this headline was a joke when I read it. I don't think this is a particularly serious violation so am sharing it for humour value. :D

Jacob Rees-Mogg under fire for ‘crossing tiers to attend Latin mass in Glastonbury’

Re: Coronavirus
 

A lot of countries' governments take on the liability for vaccine injury. In the UK, the Vaccine Damage Scheme in includes;

• coronavirus (COVID-19)
• diphtheria
• haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
• human papillomavirus
• influenza, except for influenza caused by a pandemic influenza virus
• measles
• meningococcal group B (meningitis B)
• meningococcal group C (meningitis C)
• meningococcal group W (meningitis W)
• mumps
• pandemic influenza A (H1N1) 2009 (swine flu) - up to 31 August 2010
• pertussis (whooping cough)
• pneumococcal infection
• poliomyelitis
• rotavirus
• rubella (German measles)
• smallpox - up to 1 August 1971
• tetanus
• tuberculosis (TB)

It kind of makes sense that Governments take on the liability as vaccines are a public health issue, giving drugs to those who are well with a risk of making the patient sick rather than the more common other way round. It's a particularly good idea in countries where immunisation is compulsory

Re: Coronavirus
 

About to change.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n13

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you’re going to follow Rome you might as well do it right.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I dont think he broke any laws, just guidence.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m simply pointing out the authorisations aren’t necessarily equivalent.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not sure that's justification.

A lot of the restrictions are of guidance as opposed to law (country dependent) but the public are expected to follow. them. Ergo, it's a bit rich asking and expecting the public to follow when you have politicians, 'celebrities' * sports people openly flaunting......

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

62,322 cases
1,041 deaths (within 28 days of a positive test)
>30,000 people in hospital

Those figures make for very unpleasant reading

Re: Coronavirus
 

He is covered by “reasonable excuse”.

He has travelled 15 miles to go to a Latin mass. For Muslims or Jews who find that their nearest synagogue or mosque was a similar distance away but across a local authority boundary nobody would bat an eye.

If religious services were closed where he was and he travelled regardless it may be considered “unreasonable”.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My dad (77) just had the message to book his Covid-19 jab which we have done.


My only question I live with him so am I at risk when he gets the jab?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tier 3 > Tier 4 and back again? i suspect the tabloids would be up in arms'

The papers were calling people worse than crap for leaving London before Tier 4 came in..... there was no legal restrictions, nor guidance in place at the time.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

You're perfectly safe.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We shouldn’t need to govern at the whim of tabloids.

If you think one man and his family going to a religious service closest to his home are equivalent to the idiots who fled London (many on public transport) to escape restrictions then I can’t reason with you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And if you can’t see the actions of high profile individuals set precedents and influence others then I can’t reason with you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I doubt Rees-Mogg is going to cause a substantial increase in the number of people attending Roman Catholic Mass in Latin, although I’d personally welcome it.

What’s actually important here is for the media to report it to responsibly. Or in fact, not report it at all because on balance he is likely to have a “reasonable excuse”.

To portray otherwise for political reasons, I agree, could have a risk of undermining public confidence in the restrictions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, but would you admit that it may cause people to go ‘well, if they can break the guidance..... one rule for some... etc’

Boris & Matty keep on saying ‘we’re all in this together’ so, are we ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s not, and has never been, against any guidance or legislation to cross from one area to another if you have a reasonable excuse. There is a non-exhaustive list that comes with the guidance, however that’s the point. It doesn’t cover every scenario - it’s asking people to be responsible.

If people can’t act responsibly with use of the word “reasonable” then that’s not Mogg’s fault. The suggestion he couldn’t travel 15 miles to his regular parish but could travel say 60 miles or more (I’m not familiar with where does Latin in his area) within Tier 4 is patently unreasonable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So lead by example doth butter no parsnips then.

Whilst yes you’re right it is his right I can’t help but think sections of the public will use it to argue....

It’s a greater good situation

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its also called guidence for a reason, its not the law.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: World Health Organisation Europe calls for intensified measures over 'alarming' virus variant

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: #BREAKING France says two clusters of UK Covid strain detected Source: AFP News Agency.

UK reports another 1,162 Covid-19 deaths in a day.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Vaccine now being rolled out to Doctor's surgeries.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Poll added (Any Answer chosen will not be made public).

Re: Coronavirus
 

At time of writing, as many as 50% of the forum may be tinfoil hat wearing, anti-vax lunatics. Heaven help us.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My answer is very clear as and when my group become eligible for the Covid Vaccine.

l would take it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm in the first group as I am over 50, yes I will get it done.

I actually thought I had got a letter about the jab yesterday but it was the NHS reminding me I can have a free flu jab which I had last summer, what a waste!

Re: Coronavirus
 

I had my Pfizer vaccination this afternoon.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l have a serious long term heart condition and a couple of other conditions so from the list l think am in the sixth high priority group.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I may have not have seen this roll out list, all I've seen is I'm in the first group for being over 50 is that the same list?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

That list has been withdrawn.

Here's the new one.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1610043978

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-december-2020

Re: Coronavirus
 

LOL that's identical :D

More government waste

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you got a letter telling you to shield previously Den then you should be in Group 4 - as you will have been classed as Clinically Extremely Vulnerable.

INFO HERE

Re: Coronavirus
 

No letter at all as all l have got is a email from Sainsburys saying l had priority access to online delivery slots based on information they received from the government as l am classed as vulnerable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You've got to laugh sometimes....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-55579004

Re: Coronavirus
 

Reminds me of this.
:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hasn’t that already been posted in another thread?

Edit yes you posted it this morning in the joke thread.....

Re: Coronavirus
 

My husband is in remission from lung cancer and has been instructed to shield himself by his consultant so I suspect he will be in group 4. I'll have to wait a while longer after him.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes.

I think Im classed in group 6, but I have no information on it, so I guess I'll see.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm almost 67, still go to work a couple of days a week.

The only letter I've had from a Government source in the last year, is a letter informing me that due to an error made by HMRC, I now owe them an extra £104

go figure :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

They may push you up the list if it also lessens risk to him.

My brother in law was offered the vaccine as his GP had capacity but the slot was at a time he couldn't take. I think he is mid 60's and fairly fit.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My brother is a Paramedic and he will be getting the jab next week or the week after which he is very relieved about.

We thought we might have had COVID back at the end of March. The wife and I felt fluey and run down with tight chests. My youngest also lost her sense of taste for a few days. However, my daughter had a COVID antibody test as part of a checkup for some medical issues and it came back negative so either she at least didn't get it or didn't seroconvert. Bummer

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wife just called to hospital for a "scan" but was thinking that could we give vaccine as part of admissions process? If you are going in to hospital it would add a bit more protection and help get more people vaccinated. Probably too many issues with doing it like that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Moderna vaccine becomes third Covid jab approved for use in Britain.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55586410

Re: Coronavirus
 

Novavax soon, hopefully...

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Moderna jab is a useful backup and will certainly help speed up our vaccination programme still further, however HMG's strategy of substantially backing Oxford-AstraZeneca, with a secondary punt on a novel mRNA vaccine from a company with a track record, has proven to have been correct.

I'm still waiting to hear contrition from all those who said it was a bad thing that we didn't join the EU procurement programme.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What was that I saw just blow pass you, tumbleweed Chris? :rofl:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Dont hold your breath ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The argument I've heard against the UK going it alone is that we've paid far more per dose - I think £400m in total. I appreciate that's peanuts in the whole Coronavirus spend but if going directly doesn't provide the same vaccinations quicker, then that's £400m we spent unnecessarily.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I can't remember if I spoke against not joining the EU programme, I don't think I did. However it's clear it's good we didn't join.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We have been vaccinating for a month now, Im pretty sure we were first - in fact is anywhere in the EU doing so yet ? (genuine question btw).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well they smashed it out the park with their ventilator program, didn't they?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes but at a steady pace, Germany has vaccinated less than 500,000, France just 45,000 doses. Ireland 17,000. Basically all other EU States are trailing us by a huge margin.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On what grounds? Being part of a purchasing syndicate was not conditional on the European Medicines Agency approving the drugs? If it was, then I agree with you.
We were first and other EU countries are now vaccinating too with Israel cited as the most successful. However, my understanding is that joining the procurement programme wouldn't have changed this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They have not moved as quickly

Re: Coronavirus
 

Please do explain this understanding.

How would joining have improved the situation ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

This seems like an interesting site. Mainly USA but also covers global progress.

Page down to ... The Global Vaccination Campaign to see how many vaccinations have been done up to yesterday. (07/01/2021)


https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

Re: Coronavirus
 

We would have paid less for the same vaccines.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I hope you are not criticising our Goverment for putting lives befor money Andrew. Going direct to the source may have cost a tad more but we would have had no real control of our supplies of the vaccines and not be as ahead of the game as we now are.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If they were the same vaccines delivered at the same time then I don't see the difference apart from having more money left to spend on other things.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I understand that we ordered supplies and committed a lot sooner than the EU who waited for proof that the vaccines were effective before ordering. Thus risking a delay in the vaccines being delivered to us.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3226


https://pharmaphorum.com/news/eu-orders/

Another article that outlines our Government's reasons for 'going it alone' may well have been due to uncertainty about how Brexit could have effected delivery of the vaccines..
https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/new...avirus-vaccine

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nothing wrong with paying a premium for the market leading product delivered earlier, in my view. Israel for example have done the same seeking to vaccinate all over 16s by April I think.

The question really is where the UK goes from here does it maintain it’s lead or does mass vaccination get bogged down in delivery problems, logistical challenges or random other delays. If so, running “into the lead” looks more a political stunt than a coherent vaccination strategy. As ever, the proof will be in the pudding. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

UK records 1,325 more Covid deaths

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55594107

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed. If it's a case of same product at the same time for a cheaper price then that's the value of the European scheme. If not then worth going direct and paying more.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Israel is not in Europe..... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed - but it's cited as the most successful country globally at rolling out Covid 19 vaccinations with 12% of its population vaccinated. Apologies for any ambiguity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55514243

Re: Coronavirus
 

The best global data on vaccinations is here:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

The UK is ranked 4th in the world both by absolute number of injections given, and also per 100 of population. By the latter measure Israel and the UAE are doing exceptionally well but this is because their distribution rate is very similar to ours, except to a much smaller population. Bahrain is a statistical anomaly because its population is tiny. In absolute terms China and the USA have administered more jabs than us but given their population size neither of them is actually keeping pace with us.

So far, the British vaccination programme is going really rather well, and it will only accelerate over the coming days thanks to the Oxford-AZ vaccine, which is made here and is easier to store and administer.

The best performing EU countries are Germany and Italy. These have managed only about a third of what we have.

Re: Coronavirus
 

At least it is not a daily figure. Still bad enough though.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1610129551