Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

In the spirit of clinging on, considering the fun we're having with an emerging disease, would you think that leaving the Early Warning and Response System (EWRS) is a good idea

The Department of Health wanted to stay but but Number 10 said no apparently

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Did it get switched off in Italy.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

There's a bit more to EWRS than what's in the papers!

If the health of our citizens is a price worth paying to control our borders and let companies dictate what hours we work then so be it, we know where Number 10 stands

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Think you are getting a tad paranoid.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9395476.html

Now there's a surprise (not).

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Nice, the “Independent” comparing apples and pears there, in the name of unbiased journalism :rolleyes:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The figures come from the Office for Budget Responsibility, and the Chancellor's 'Big Red Book'. Which ones do you dispute? Was the £350 million a week on the side of a bus more reliable and costed? Do tell.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

In whose thesaurus is the word “comparing” synonymous with “dispute”? :confused:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Good, so you don't dispute we're worse off. Sorted. Maybe you'll get another vote someday....

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Seeing as the rebate was going to be scrapped if we remained, the true figure would have been more than £350m/week. In fact a budget report said that even if the rebate remained, our contributions would have soon approached £350m/week.

Whatever way you look at it, having to give a 66% rebate in order to get to a "fair" contribution, clearly show that the system of calculating contributions is extremely unfair as far as the UK was concerned.

The way the rebate worked was that for every £3 we "got back" from the EU, £2 was taken off the rebate. IE more than 2 in £3 of EU money spent here came directly from the UK in the first place. No other EU country, including Germany, had to fund their EU spending to that extent.


Public opposition to the EU was there long before the referendum campaign. That is why there was a referendum in the first place. It wasn't because a small number of people wanted to leave.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

If at any point there is a referendum on joining the EU, my vote will be “no”.

All this time and you *still* don’t get it, do you ...

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

No you're right I really don't get why we'd want to be worse off.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

You’re like an ex-girlfriend who still won’t accept that she’s been dumped.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

That’s because you have a sad and impoverished conception of what’s truly valuable.

There’s really no point rehearsing the arguments for breaking free of EU. If you’re still determined that everything of worth about this country’s heritage and future prospects can be reduced to a tabloid-friendly piece of division designed to induce the hard-of-thinking into believing Big Bad Boris is going to raid their bank balances to the tune of a grand a year, then I have to say I’m content leave you in your misery.

Me, I’m quite happy that the amount we’re talking about is, firstly, nowhere near as noticeable to the average citizen as the “£1,200 per person” is designed to imply, and, secondly, is more than a bargain as the price of national freedom to design and pursue our own future outside the sclerotic EU.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

If the EU changes significantly by the time of a future referendum, then I think it would be unreasonable to expect anyone to vote as they did in 2016.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I'd say that's an acceptable statement.

In fact, when the EU start throwing £millions of someone else's cash at us, decide that the massive free movement policy is out of hand, and we can have our manufacturing industries back it 'might' get my vote too :p:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

That's assuming the EU still exists in the future.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

What are you talking about?

---------- Post added at 07:20 ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 ----------

It's been on the news overnight that, due to the Coronavirus, a number of EU countries are to 'close their borders to foreigners'!

But what about their precious freedom of movement policy? Hopefully we'll do the same.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

And Brexiteers need to realise there are more important issues than Brexit atm.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The good news about Coronavirus, and the imminent global recession, is that it should focus the minds of the UK side to realise that the future relationship is a marathon and not a sprint.

Racing to a sub-optimal agreement by end the of this year isn't in the UK or EU interest at the minute and the reasonable step of an extension will be triggered.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I tend to agree - while I support Boris’ attempt to get a quick deal, without enduring the EU’s standard intransigence and brinkmanship, present circumstances mean that the time and resources required even for a quick deal may not be available when we need them. I suspect we will now see things extended into next year, however given the political cover Boris will require in order to do that, I don’t think an announcement will be forthcoming for a while yet. Things will have to be seen to be hopeless, especially by his hardline backbenchers, before he can try to carry the necessary votes through the Commons smoothly.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Or we could just go our own way.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

/hums Fleetwood Mac :D

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I think we need to focus our efforts on the Coronavirus. As Chris says, the request for an extension will most likely happen in the Summer and not now.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The two are intertwined
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-and-cost-more

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It would be an interesting scenario if UK researchers came up with a vaccine for COVID-19, what would the EMA do then?

The EU is not the font of all knowledge as media such as the Guardian would like to suggest.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

This is case of working together. Doesn't matter who makes the breakrough, as long as we share info and don't duplicate research. Little Englanders and Brexit are pointless waste of time and effort atm.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I would not deny that but

That was back in February, still a long way to go with it though but a start.

Link

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Another person who *still* doesn’t get it.

Brexit was about taking back control, not withholding cooperation. There are plenty of ways in which intergovernmental cooperation can occur, without the dead hand of Brussels bureaucracy adding layers of complexity. We manage it via the ESA, to pick one single example.

Vaccine research can occur quite happily with laboratories in different countries talking to each other and sharing the workload. The last thing we need in emergency situations like this is bureaucrats insisting on their cherished regulatory frameworks.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It’s just the whining remain lobby grasping at anything they think they can still use to keep the UK tightly aligned with the EU.

I’m all for intergovernmental cooperation. The problem with doing anything through the EU is that it is enormously difficult not to get sucked in to the wider bureaucracy, oversight of the political activists at the ECJ and pressure to ‘dynamically align’ our processes as those within the EU change.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Although it's not my responsibility to inform you about the implications of the UK self-excluding itself from co-operating with the EMA, this Observer article does that well, so here's the link. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...P=share_btn_tw

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

If the EU approves something, we in the UK can rubber stamp acceptance of it in the UK. The other way around might not be so simple, ie the UK approves something, how long would it take the EU to accept it?


The EU whinged about the US travel ban because the US didn't ask permission from the EU to do it. Now certain EU countries are having their own travel bans in place.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Putting politics to one side, do people think it's sensible to leave completely at the end of the transition period in the event of no deal being agreed?

My concern is that the effects of the Coronavirus itself will affect the negotiation process and that it is said that it will produce an economic crisis as bad as the 9/11 situation.

Many argue that Brexit won't cause this economic problems to happen, but should we risk the economic effects of leaving with no deal on top of this crisis, or would it be prudent to extend the transitional period for a time?

I know that Johnson has pinned his popularity on leaving if no deal is reached and introduced legislation to prevent an extension, but I think that most people would accept that dealing with this pandemic must take precedence.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I think that the pandemic is relevant as leaders will have their minds & time on the pandemic and key people may be infected by the virus itself.

As it's clear that the Coronavirus will have an extremely serious negative economic impact (shares that I hold have taken a battering already) I think It's worth revisiting the transitional period at least.

Leavers have either said that they don't believe that leaving with no deal will cause any economic fallout or that it will, but It's worth it long term. This was before the pandemic though.

For balance, some leavers have said that they think that this is simply a ruse by remainers to keep us aligned to the EU for a bit longer. I don't think that this is the case as we've already left and a reasonable extension is now neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things.

At the moment Jhnson is adamant that there will be no extension:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-says-johnson

But I think he will at least privately consider it in the light of these serious developments since.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

At least we can now use the Coronavirus to our advantage during the transition to keep out those that we don't want here by extending our 'concerns' about it.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The guys negotiating the trade deal are not the same ones dealing with the coronavirus, so we can do both.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

We can do both, if you don't think that Ministers will be distracted by Coronavirus, economic recession and other matters.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

And what if members of either negotiatimg team have to go into self isolation or contract the virus themselves?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Ever heard of video conferencing ?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Won't work if any become ill.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Not sure it's also the best medium for 200 people anyway.

The fact is that the talks due this week in London have been cancelled due to the Coronavirus.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a9398966.html
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...-cancelled-due

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I didn't realise that the negotiating teams comprised of 200 people :shocked:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

You'll probably find those are just the face to face ones, with hundreds of support staff in London and elsewhere researching and briefing.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The EU has announced that any materials or equipment that could be used against the coronavirus cannot be exported outside the EU without specific permission to do so by the EU.

And what if non-EU countries decided to respond in kind?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Have you a link?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I don't think any country experiencing a potential shortage is going to routinely export limited supplies to other countries.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Here's a link on the EU restrictions on export of equipment if this helps - https://www.politico.eu/article/coro...cal-equipment/

Germany got a slap on the wrist for not allowing exports of PPE to Italy apparently.

Lots of countries are restricting exports it seems - https://www.worldecr.com/news/corona...ng-group-says/ . The UK maintains a list of drugs updated weekly that cannot be exported based on domestic need (link) It seems that when push comes to shove, you look after your own first.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It's the minimum anyone expects is that the state looks after them.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Nobody can expect the demands of a supranational institution to take priority over the State’s responsibility to protect and defend its citizens.

Restrictions may well apply at the EU level for the time being, but if things get serious enough you can be certain that domestic needs will triumph. As has been noted, even before we left the EU the UK Gov kept a list of pharmaceuticals that may not be exported where domestic supply needs to be protected. It is high time that more states than just the UK woke up to the risks of stretching supply chains across international frontiers.

Of course the inexorable logic of the EU project is that it become a single State, so these issues cease to be relevant. Doubtless when the inquest begins some time next year the Brussels elite will exclaim that the solution to the problem is ‘more Europe’ - they always do.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Apart from this site which includes details on;

• Guidance on health measures at Schengen borders
• Advice for airlines
• Advice for air passengers and their rights
• Alleviation of airline slot usage obligations
• Advice for rail and maritime operators
• International health response through the European Centre for Disease Control including daily summaries
• Data sharing through the Early Warning and Response System
• Joint procurement of medical supplies
• Emergency funding through Horizon 2020 and other programs for research into coronavirus worth over €200million
• Cofunding repatriation flights
• €400million for global preparedness
• €25billion on structural funding to deal with the effects of the outbreak going foward

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Well, we're still in the transition period so we're golden for now. We will lose the international epidemiological and scientific cooperation, structural funding and the critical mass to effectively procure large volumes of equipment and supplies in January but that's what we voted for I guess

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Few can argue with such an approach - industry has insufficient capacity to adapt to no-deal or a Canadian-style deal.
https://www.ft.com/content/14232572-...d-da70cff6e4d3

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It's a common sense approach. Tens of billions, if not more, will be wiped off our GDP with Coronavirus. Hundreds of thousands more unemployed and the last thing the markets want or need right now is even greater uncertainty.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

But Johnson obtained his majority by "getting brexit done". He won't want to, but he will have to extend the transitional period out of necessity.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

You can’t negotiate if your negotiators are sick. Don’t be obtuse.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

And it has been. Whether we reach an agreement by December this year or next is completely incidental. Any agreement to extend would be entirely in our control, and in our own interest.

I don't think six months ago anyone would have foresaw current events. We don't know where we will be in six months. Even the most ardent anti-Tory would have to accept it's a reasonable step.

Neither us, or the EU, are interested in these discussions right now. Bigger fish to fry

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Totally agree.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...us-eu-21718603


I assume they have more than one negotiator.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The Guardian reporting "huge swathes" of our Civil Servants have been moved to the Coronavirus response.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I am surprised anyone here still cares about Brexit at the moment.

Also for all the economic debates we had I don't think anyone had 'nah, a global pandemic will tank the economy worse than 2008' on the cards.

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:49 ----------

As for an extension, again who cares right now?, but the political environment after this crisis passes will be so different that I think the Government will have no resistance either way on the matter. If they want it people will shrug their shoulders and understand why, if they don't people will still largely not care because it's not as if we're going to be worried about a FTSE drop is it?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

No sane person cares, Damien. It's more a case of survival. I doubt all but a handful are concerned or enthused by a possible extension.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Its totally unimportant given the grave crisis we are in.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Untrue.

Our departure from the EU has occurred and the termination of the transition period is set in law. The default is to end that period with no deal. It may be of distant secondary importance right now, but it is still extremely important for this country to determine what its permanent relationship with the EU will look like, and one way or another that will require government and parliamentary time well before the end of the year. Given the government’s political deadline for visible progress by June, some decisions will have to be taken fairly soon.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

As the last Parliament showed though that can be very little time at all when the circumstances require it.

The President of the EC has came out this morning and said they are open to an extension but the UK would have to implement state subsidy rules. I’m not sure she’s paying attention to the economic crisis unfolding. Massive state intervention in every major economy is going to be required to keep the whole system afloat.

Completely tone deaf.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

On that note...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...virus-symptoms

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I'm not totally unreasonable Seph, I just disagree with you about most things :D

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Nobody gives a toss about Brexit any longer.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

You wish.

Brexit has occurred ... we are out, and already feeling the benefits of not being pressured into following stratagems dreamed up in Brussels.

As far as the end of the transitional period goes, well I suspect it will be extended probably 6-9 months, unless of course the tin-eared Von der Leyen continues to insist on linkage with state subsidy rules, which is the one thing we most need to retain control of as we try to work our way out of this pandemic mess. If she pushes back hard on that then HMG might just decide things can’t actually get any worse than they already are and just let the no deal deadline pass at the end of the year.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Dude, it’s done - get over it.

It may take longer than initially envisaged (due to, you know, the unforeseen semi-apocalypse), but it’s going to happen.

Not if, but when.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Either way Hugh, no one,apart from the demented, gives a toss. Having our families alive and well is more of a priority.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Boris will resist any extension because he has committed himself to 'getting this done' by the end of the year, and although he would have the perfect excuse now for an extension, he will be aware that his detractors will be claiming that this is 'another' promise broken.

I suspect he won't be going there.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Hope the silly sods on both sides stop trying to score points and recognise that disease doesn't care about trade borders and work together. It's to both sides advantage to end this pandemic.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

European (world) economies are going to take a savage beating for a good part of the year.

Only the most arrogant and stupid would put in place barriers to help these economies recover.

If the UK and EU don't come to an agreement and if there isn't an extension (I personally think there would need to be 3-6 extension), I wouldn't be surprised to see EU members take unilateral measures (whatever ones they can).

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Spot on with the bit in bold. It will be a non-issue and will probably be delayed a year or so. We've left the EU as he promised so Boris can face any challengers down.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

We can now implement new trade deals with countries world wide?
We are still under the ECJ?
Do we still have to folow EU rules.

If the answer to any of them is no then we haven't fully left.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

we're in the transition period. which id due to end at the end of the year, with or without a trade agreement.

after this crisis an equitable agreement will be essential for both sides, so i would expect one.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Even bearing in mind the coronavirus issue, I think Boris will find it unplatable as well as risky politically to extend the transition period. He is anxious to show, over the shouts of 'liar, liar' that he can deliver what he promised.

As I understand it, negotiations are continuing via videolink. Far better than trotting back and forth between here and the Continent. It's about time we stopped jetting around the world to have talks with overseas governments. It's not necessary these days.