Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

to tesco? looks nothing out of the ordinary but it was extremely slow.

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 458 ms 623 ms 490 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 341 ms 373 ms 134 ms leic-core-2b-ae6-749.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.109]
4 17 ms 41 ms 27 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.117]
5 94 ms 65 ms 32 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae11-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.109]
6 144 ms 51 ms 24 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
7 136 ms 113 ms 222 ms ldn-b4-link.telia.net [213.248.70.29]
8 18 ms 23 ms 33 ms ldn-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.246.96]
9 45 ms 37 ms 35 ms hbg-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.245.63]
10 143 ms 44 ms 48 ms kbn-bb1-link.telia.net [213.155.135.127]
11 48 ms 51 ms 46 ms kbn-b4-link.telia.net [213.155.135.183]
12 61 ms 67 ms 67 ms 80-239-178-210.customer.teliacarrier.com [80.239
.178.210]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Make sure you are doing some downloading to make sure its over the threshold for work to be done ;)

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

It's back in Manchester.
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Looks like his problems are all at his local node. Still no proof this bump actually affected any real traffic.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

His 10th hop had a strange 100ms bump

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Bump is back. I thought 2 weeks was too quick for VM to fix a problem ;)

How many weeks will they ask for traceroutes from everyone before they even look at the problem this time?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Here we go again. Poor performance during bump.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

^ here we go, no graphic ^ :p:

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...06-11-2012.png

Yup, it's back alright :(

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Damn again. It always worked this way before!! Grrrrr

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...06-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

bear in mind I did that tracert after the bump ended for your post request.

I didnt do one during the bump.

I do know all the previous bumps had negative affect on my services tho. I remember you saying last time as well you seem to mysteriously think it only affected tbb and you was wrong.

Do you think VM dedicate a port just for tbb traffic?

and yes the latency spikes craig :0 not unusual for my connection I guess. But I just put my modem on a better US now, I think that channel not as good as the other one.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

The previous bump was a problem with their capacity on paths through LINX and could be clearly seen affecting many different routes to VM via LINX.

The current bump didn't affect any of the 5 LINX paths I tested, or two private peering paths. That largely rules out a generic problem through LINX.

That leaves two possibilities, a problem specific to TBB or a problem affecting VM's network in general. Since zero out of 7 paths into VM were affected, that rules out a generic VM problem. That leaves one possibility.

I'm yet to see any evidence it affected anything other than TBB, so if you have anything sensible to suggest to the contrary, please do.

What evidence do you have that the fault lies with a port on VM?

---------- Post added at 09:41 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Seeing as the ping monitors go through LINX and your Tesco traffic does not, unless there's a generic problem with VM's core network (which there isn't) problems with the two are completely unrelated.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

qas I dont know the nature of your testing, you seem to be saying you somehow are able to test specific VM ports. Also that VMs core network has no problems, what exclusive access do you have to determine that?

What I can tell you is the following.

VM confirmed themselves that at least one port was overloaded in the previous instance, they had overloaded it with atroto traffic, when they rerouted that traffic temporarily graphs went back to normal, yet your testing determined there was no such overload. So maybe VM were wrong also?

I have done my own testing using speedtests, as a port overload can slow down speeds without affecting pings, I can affect speeds by rerouting my own traffic and then looking at routes taken for that traffic to determine where congestion is, yes i cannot determine the exact point but I also test with multiple isp's which gives me a reasonable guess.

I have multiple times in the past seen what looks like congestion on VMs core network, the CEO office themselves have even told me of core network issues near my area that they have said have caused me problems. Granted they could have been fobbing me off.

I also have contacts with several isp's they can inform me if their peering point with VM is saturated or not, I have these contacts as I do work for them or have done work for them in the past.

eg. I have had traffic moved from AMS-IX peering point to telia transit and the speed quadrupled (not maxed out tho). The src isp however doesnt have issues sending over AMS-IX to other uk isp's.

Do you also believe there to be no issues in manchester VM connectivity, craig himself has even picked up the performance issues in that area.

Generally when the shared pipe is large eg. 10gigabit, then issues wont show on ping data until its pretty much saturated, it can be at 99% and you will see very little in terms of ping spikes. Its not like a UBR port where it can spike at say 60%.

Now I am trying to understand what you are saying, are you saying you think the local network to tbb has its own congestion, yet that congestion just happens to be affecting VM alone, maybe tbb are sabotaging VM? is that in your thoughts?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

This is exactly the kind of idiotic far fetched speculation that's ******** me off these days.

You have slow access to Tesco. Other people have a bump on their ping charts. They have nothing to do with each other.

You see one bump now. You saw another bump a few weeks ago. Again, they have nothing to do with each other.

You complain of congestion on VM's core network yet somehow nobody else has seen it and all you can demonstrate is congestion in your local area. They have nothing to do with each other.

The ping bumps everyone is seeing has nothing to do with you, your Tesco shopping speeds, or anything in your area.

Basic network troubleshooting 101:


What is the problem?
High latency

What is it affecting?
Traffic from A to B

Is it affecting anything else going to or from A?
No

Is it affecting anything else going to or from B?
No

Is it affecting anything else going through a common midpoint between A and B?
No

Conclusion:
The problem is localized and probably specific to traffic between A and B.


This ping spike has nothing to do with Speedtest, nothing to do with AMS-IX, nothing to do with previous problems with Atroto, nothing to do with Manchester core and nothing to do with link speed. I don't give a rats arse if pigs are chewing up the cables in Amsterdam or sabotaging VM, they have nothing to do with the issue being discussed. Quit clutching at straws and stop banging on about irrelevant stuff that has nothing to the issue at hand.

Oh and some basic logic on the stuff you've come up with:

You say previously VM confirmed there was a port overloaded due to Atroto traffic.

Are any the symptoms the same as the previous incident with Atroto?
No.

Conclusion: It is not the same problem

You say something about a port being overloaded in a way that affects speedtests but not pings.

Does the problem affect pings?
Yes

Conclusion: It is not the same problem

You say you've seen multiple times congestion on VM's core network.

Is the problem affecting anything else on VM's core network?
No

Conclusion: The problem is not with VM's core network.

You say you have contacts with other ISPs that can inform you if their peering point is saturated or not.

Is the problem affecting anything going through a peering point with another ISP?
No

Conclusion: That has nothing to do with the problem.

You say moving traffic from AMS-IX in the past has caused your speed to quadruple in the past.

Is the problem anything to do with your speed?
No

Does the problem affect anything going through AMX-IX in any way shape or form?
No

Does the problem solely affect traffic not going through AMS-IX?
Yes

Conclusion: That has nothing to do with the problem.

You say something about Manchester connectivity and performance issues there.

Does the problem affect any other traffic going to, from or through Manchester?
No

Does the problem affect any traffic not going through Manchester?
Yes

Is there any difference in the problem's effects between traffic going through and not going through Manchester?
No

Conclusion: That has nothing to do with the problem.

You say something about large shared pipes not showing issues on ping data until its pretty much saturated, and it could be running at 99% without you seeing any ping spikes.

Is the problem a ping spike?
Yes

Conclusion: That has nothing to do with the problem.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I could argue you are spouting rubbish as well.

You post it is not VM side, with nothing to back that up other than your statement. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Just remember you calling my green hills a localised problem doesnt have much clout when we have several other regions with the same green hills on their graphs.

I also sense a sign of disrespect when you consider an issue thats bad enough to cause base latency to sky rocket to not be performance affecting.

Also that I never once said tesco was caused by this spike, I simply posted it was extremely slow on my VM connection (not on my 3G), also not on 2 other connections I tested. I also stated the tracert was from after the time period in question and that the latency spikes on that were not unusual for my area. You suddenly go on the defensive over VM's problems as if you have some stake in their network or something.

Thank you for confirming you disagree with VMs statement by the way, as VM did say it was atroto related. They specifically addressed this in relation to the tbb graphs people were posting.

So several websites/services have issues only with VM but its not VMs fault ;)

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Oh my days :( just to add (among the squabbling) i`m suffering this bump too again.. I`m on Craigs pingotron CMTS is Great Yarmouth..

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Chrysalis, don't feed the tro...

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

yeah sorry for the ranting will go back to just discussing graphs.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Umm...

Where did I say that? You appear to be spouting made up rubbish.

Where did I say that? You just made up more rubbish

Neither you or anybody else has presented any evidence that the performance of anything was affected other than the TBB ping monitor itself.

Where did I say that? You're making up more rubbish again.

You said for the last problem several weeks ago. Have they done this in relation to yesterday's graphs?

Several? Asking for the third time, what other than TBB is affected?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Just sticking to what I have observed only: During the evening blip over the last three nights my down speed has been reduced to <50Mb and there has been buffering on streamed HD, something that never happens when there is not a blip.

Whatever its cause this aberration is unacceptable especially considering this is a repeat of symptoms I had less than a month ago.

As before, the blip has a very sharp onset and decline. Something changes abruptly at these times. Here I will allow myself to speculate.

This kind of change is not typical of the gradual build up and decrease of congestion you would expect with folk getting home from work and, later, going to bed. Some change is being made either automatically or manually to network configuration or network load in my area at these times.

Is this local or general? I do not know. How many others are getting this effect and where are they?

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Exactly the same. I had it between 4pm and 6pm yesterday..

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

It's affecting every single VM monitor I've seen but has not been shown to affect any other traffic to/from VM.

The onset isn't unlike something caused by congestion, the decline however indicates a sudden switch, e.g. routing got fixed or degraded link brought back online.

The sharpness of these things really doesn't say much, it's the relative sharpness of the increase and decline, which if caused by congestion should be similar at both ends.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Had the same last night. I am now at the point of making a formal complaint to the top. I have had ENOUGH of it.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/14.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I'm not yet convinced by your view on the sharpness of the onset. On my TBB graph there was a normal profile until something like 7.50 pm. By 8.15 pm the blip was at its peak. Admittedly the decline at the other end of the blip was virtually instant, but I would have expected a much more gradual onset if collective human behaviour is the only cause. ie thousands of users caning their connections soon after they get home from work somewhere around 6.00 pm.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Mine was the same last night too:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...06-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I find the ignore button works a treat ;)

The bump is back here too.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...07-11-2012.png

Gateway

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...07-11-2012.png

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5...dia-again.html

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I've said so before, and iggi's said it on TBB. That's not how it works. Read this post:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/vir...y-tonight.html

For the lazy, this is what "natural" congestion saturating a link normally looks like:

On O2's core network
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/59.png
On VM's core network
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/60.png
On VM's edge/border (the last "Altroto" incident):
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/61.png

This is an example Thinkbroadband posted on their own FAQ page as "A classic example of peak time [congestion] affecting latency, and suggests the provider in question is running its links at very close to capacity"

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/faq/bqm/peak.png

Another example from Thinkbroadband's own FAQ, this time "what effect a heavily congested link from an exchange to the wider internet can have" (in this case Sky):

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images...congestion.png

In comparison to your graph:
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

OK qasdfdsaq, you have started to convince me. So, if this is a typical congestion profile let me deduce why we have such an acute onset and decline. (Lay person's language only)

As congestion increases systems can, up to a certain threshold, maintain acceptably low latency, but beyond that point things have to give, or are allowed to give, and the flood gates open. Similarly as congestion reduces systems can just as rapidly restore acceptable levels.

Given that congestion inevitably builds up and reduces gradually, this is the only explanation I can think of. Or, is there perhaps some attribute of the TBB connection to VM or of their latency measuring method that makes the profile look so abrupt?

BTW. I am lazy, but I did follow your link.

It's almost blip time, so I'm off check.

Edit.............................................. ..............................................

Here we go. Here comes the blip.



[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/58.png


Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms REDDWARF [192.168.1.1]
2 7 ms 5 ms 5 ms 10.14.112.1
3 7 ms 9 ms 7 ms brhm-core-2b-ae3-1179.network.virginmedia.net [2
13.106.229.225]
4 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms brhm-bb-1b-ae8-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.77]
5 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms brhm-bb-1a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.185.153]
6 116 ms 14 ms 13 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.185.85]
7 15 ms 14 ms 15 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
8 32 ms 14 ms 15 ms pos6-1.rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.237]
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 15 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
11 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms 132.185.255.60
12 18 ms 15 ms 37 ms 212.58.241.131

Trace complete.


Tracing route to thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms REDDWARF [192.168.1.1]
2 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms 10.14.112.1
3 7 ms 8 ms 12 ms brhm-core-2b-ae3-1180.network.virginmedia.net [2
13.106.229.229]
4 8 ms 9 ms 7 ms brhm-bb-1b-ae8-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.77]
5 9 ms 11 ms 8 ms nrth-bb-1a-as4-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.185.105]
6 10 ms 11 ms 11 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.185.118]
7 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
8 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms linx-gw1.thn.ncuk.net [195.66.224.240]
9 15 ms 13 ms 14 ms gi0-24-10-star1.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.9
7.9]
10 98 ms 92 ms 95 ms www.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.130]

Trace complete.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Pretty much, yes. As Chrysalis pointed out earlier (though it wasn't entirely relevant at the time), fat pipes tend to not show any increase in latency until they are very close to full, you may gradually get up to 98%-99% utilization without any noticeable increase in latency. Core routers are so fast everything is forwarded at line speed, 999Mbps data comes in, 999Mbps data is immediately forwarded out the other end with no buffering or waiting. Once you hit 1001Mbps incoming traffic but an outgoing interface being a 1000Mbps line, that extra 1Mbps will cause buffering to start, hence the large increase in latency. The buffers are usually no more than a few megabytes so even 0.1% overutilization will fill them up in seconds.

Your explanation is basically right. Congestion builds up gradually, but buffering is basically zero until the link hits 100%.

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Now traceroute to TBB, as well as everything else under the sun.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

tracerts and everything else- DONE. See above.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

guess what?! its back...

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...07-11-2012.png

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...07-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

this my speed test with the bump again.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedt...918215964.html

playing buggers with my youtube, IPlayer etc.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2013/01/14.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Thanks. When you get a chance, could you also traceroute 141.0.208.1 and 94.143.104.1? P.S. Also

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/traceroute.html


---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

No it isn't.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

can assure it is.

currently trying to watch the football on another site and its buffering and jumping like crazy.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

This is getting beyond a joke now. Will someone please pull there finger out and sodding fix this :mad:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/14.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Can assure you it isn't. You clearly haven't been paying attention. Your connection problems have nothing to do with this ping spike.

roughbeast has already shown traffic to/from BBC's network is not affected. It doesn't even go over the same network. Many others have already shown VM hosts Youtube inside their own network, nowhere near the location this problem is occurring.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 21 ms 23 ms 17 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 14 ms 73 ms 20 ms leic-core-2a-ae6-649.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.73]
4 26 ms 45 ms 31 ms leed-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.113]
5 17 ms 10 ms 17 ms leed-bb-1a-ae10-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.21]
6 35 ms 23 ms 18 ms brnt-bb-1b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.10
5.175.26]
7 28 ms 25 ms 24 ms brnt-tmr-1-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.10
5.159.50]
8 62 ms 27 ms 20 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
185.74]
9 21 ms 13 ms 24 ms linx-gw2.thdo.ncuk.net [195.66.236.240]
10 20 ms 16 ms 15 ms gi0-0-10-star1.bdr-rt1.rbsov.ncuk.net [80.249.97
.3]
11 112 ms 107 ms 117 ms gw1.dotmailer.com [94.143.104.1]


1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 17 ms 15 ms 13 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 19 ms 15 ms 25 ms leic-core-2a-ae6-649.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.73]
4 27 ms 22 ms 14 ms leed-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.113]
5 28 ms 13 ms 47 ms leed-bb-1a-ae10-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.21]
6 26 ms 51 ms 36 ms brnt-bb-1b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.10
5.175.26]
7 31 ms 26 ms 27 ms brnt-tmr-1-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.10
5.159.50]
8 45 ms 37 ms 27 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
185.74]
9 21 ms 18 ms 12 ms linx-gw2.thdo.ncuk.net [195.66.236.240]
10 106 ms 111 ms 120 ms ip208-1.thdo.ncuk.net [141.0.208.1]


here is one to tesco, seems different unrelated issue (site a mess again).

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 13 ms 15 ms 12 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 13 ms 18 ms 18 ms leic-core-2a-ae6-649.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.73]
4 38 ms 35 ms 41 ms leed-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.113]
5 39 ms 34 ms 31 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae9-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.122]
6 28 ms 29 ms 34 ms popl-bb-1c-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.138]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 37 ms * * 195.99.125.113
9 36 ms 44 ms 34 ms core2-te-0-15-0-6.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.
254.61]
10 * 52 ms * 62.172.103.61
11 49 ms 43 ms 19 ms vhsaccess1-pos8-0.kingston.fixed.bt.net [194.72.
3.238]
12 34 ms * * ftip003172445-ms-lb.vhsaccess1.kingston.fixed-nt
e.bt.net [62.172.57.158]
13 * 38 ms * 212.140.185.12
14 * * * Request timed out.

finally since speedtests are affected I traced namesco.co.uk and it has the spike.

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 36 ms 24 ms 24 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 69 ms 6 ms 16 ms leic-core-2b-ae6-749.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.109]
4 14 ms 20 ms 11 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.117]
5 17 ms 13 ms 37 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae11-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.109]
6 23 ms 24 ms 39 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
7 21 ms 30 ms 19 ms the-linx.as29550.net [195.66.224.223]
8 128 ms 234 ms 186 ms the3-po1.namesco.net [213.229.105.110]
9 114 ms 115 ms 115 ms lb1.namesco.net [85.233.160.70]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

:hyper:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...07-11-2012.png
http://www.pingtest.net/result/71914594.png
and speeds down to 33mb

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

so its the site itself then?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

see this also report 100+ms latency.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/55.png

and maidenhead (bont know ip tho so cant trace)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/56.png

and birmingham :(

coventry also

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/57.png

tracert to the website of the company who runs the coventry test.

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 48 ms 13 ms 26 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 13 ms 25 ms 10 ms leic-core-2b-ae6-749.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.109]
4 20 ms 24 ms 35 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.117]
5 38 ms 19 ms 7 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae11-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.109]
6 29 ms 33 ms 22 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
7 15 ms 22 ms 30 ms ge1.the-bgp1.warwick.net.uk [195.66.224.113]
8 17 ms 25 ms 29 ms gi0-283.np-bgp1.warwick.net.uk [94.125.133.174]

9 114 ms 114 ms 161 ms 94.125.135.18

when last hop only shows jump it usually means return path is affected, so the return path is needed to diagnose the issue.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Finally, something affected that is *not* the ping monitor. About time too ;)

That's not the speedtest server though. The speedtest server is at gonzales.namesco.net

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/traceroute.html :)

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

qas it suddenly resided, birmingham speedtest suddenly shot up and reported 50ms, so I redid a trace to the tbb ip you gave me and thats also down.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/52.png

trace to birmingham company

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 32 ms 24 ms 9 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 8 ms 16 ms 34 ms leic-core-2b-ae6-749.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.109]
4 38 ms 11 ms 19 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.117]
5 36 ms 21 ms 14 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae11-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.109]
6 22 ms 14 ms 10 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
7 28 ms 39 ms 26 ms linx1.ixreach.com [195.66.224.217]
8 40 ms 53 ms 27 ms host-91-196-187-9.in-addr.packetrade.com [91.196
.187.9]
9 38 ms 33 ms 35 ms gi1-1.cr10.alv.core.datatechuk.net [46.18.173.16
2]
10 42 ms 50 ms 37 ms gi1-0-1.cr1.alv.core.datatechuk.net [212.74.60.9
]
11 41 ms 54 ms 52 ms uksv1.datatechuk.net [212.74.32.32]

Trace complete.

trace to tbb ip that was 100ms

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 21 ms 18 ms 19 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 17 ms 21 ms 21 ms leic-core-2a-ae6-649.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.73]
4 12 ms 10 ms 8 ms leed-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.113]
5 23 ms 14 ms 18 ms leed-bb-1a-ae10-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.21]
6 16 ms 18 ms 18 ms brnt-bb-1b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.10
5.175.26]
7 24 ms 13 ms 43 ms brnt-tmr-1-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.10
5.159.50]
8 22 ms 18 ms 18 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
185.74]
9 21 ms 15 ms 18 ms linx-gw2.thdo.ncuk.net [195.66.236.240]
10 36 ms 29 ms 27 ms ip208-1.thdo.ncuk.net [141.0.208.1]

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

repeat speedtests and traces

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/53.png

Tracing route to warwicknet.com [94.125.135.18]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 22 ms 9 ms 19 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 10 ms 6 ms 10 ms leic-core-2b-ae6-749.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.109]
4 15 ms 10 ms 13 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.117]
5 22 ms 7 ms 11 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae11-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.109]
6 13 ms 15 ms 26 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
7 13 ms 10 ms 16 ms ge1.the-bgp1.warwick.net.uk [195.66.224.113]
8 20 ms 21 ms 15 ms gi0-283.np-bgp1.warwick.net.uk [94.125.133.174]

9 24 ms 21 ms 21 ms 94.125.135.18

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/54.png

Tracing route to namesco.co.uk [85.233.160.70]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms home.gateway2 [192.168.1.1]
2 20 ms 10 ms 32 ms cpc14-leic14-2-0-gw.8-1.cable.virginmedia.com [8
2.30.112.1]
3 10 ms 7 ms 4 ms leic-core-2b-ae6-749.network.virginmedia.net [82
.3.35.109]
4 14 ms 9 ms 11 ms nrth-bb-1c-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253
.174.117]
5 14 ms 18 ms 11 ms nrth-bb-1b-ae11-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.25
3.174.109]
6 42 ms 14 ms 11 ms tele-ic-4-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
174.18]
7 32 ms 13 ms 10 ms the-linx.as29550.net [195.66.224.223]
8 38 ms 31 ms 31 ms the3-po1.namesco.net [213.229.105.110]
9 48 ms 38 ms 37 ms lb1.namesco.net [85.233.160.70]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

# Host Sent Recvd Best Avg Worst
1 thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 1ms 5ms
2 gi4-47-10-star1.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 10ms 142ms
3 gi4-3-10-star1.bdr-rt1.thn.ncuk.net 15 15 0ms 0ms 0ms
4 linx-gw1.router.ntli.net 15 15 9ms 22ms 109ms
5 nrth-bb-1b-ae7-0.network.virginmedia.net 13 15 9ms 18ms 31ms
6 leed-bb-1a-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net 15 15 15ms 21ms 29ms
7 leed-bb-1b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net 15 15 15ms 30ms 124ms
8 sgyl-core-2b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net 15 15 20ms 25ms 33ms
9 linl-cmts-07-ge333.network.virginmedia.net 15 15 21ms 26ms 33ms
10 cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust247.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com 15 15 30ms 39ms 48ms

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

High pings to facebook during this issue aswell as adslguide..

Pings to bbc and youtube fine.

Weird

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

can I ask what that green spike actually means?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

as me and others said it wasnt a tbb only issue, just I been too busy before to do all this data collecting.

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

tesco packetloss is gone now as well.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

http://www.itistimed.com/?CentralFor...TION_TYPE=Ping

Think Qas is onto something

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

we might be onto a double dip, as its subsided earlier than usual and I can see my graph going up again.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Triple dip by the looks of things. Please do http://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/traceroute.html again.

I suspect the issue is at linx-gw1.router.ntli.net [195.66.224.22]

195.66.224.22
b0c6.9aec.a7c5 Telehouse East edge3-the 30 0 10G No London Juniper

195.66.224.22
b0c6.9aec.a7c5 Telehouse East edge3-the 40 1 10G No London Juniper

[Edit]
Yep, that gateway is overloaded. Both ports as well, though one more so than the other.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...g/td-p/1463684

Gigidy.

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

Too late, it's recovered again. Traffic got rerouted.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I'll try those tracerts tomorrow. Been away from PC. Bump is ended for tonight.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

too late, although its the other return routes I am interested in as you already have seen tbb's.

going to contact the 2 isp's and ask if they can check my routing during an evening.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Doesn't really matter. We know where the problem is - 195.66.224.22. Everything going from LINX to VM's network through that is affected. Easy enough to find once people came up with actual evidence that it wasn't just TBB.

Incidentally 457 routes are advertised by that gateway.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Does BGP Play show anything?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

not a new issue either.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...es/td-p/966491

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Well I'm sure after a few days of complains on their forums VM's cack network team will sort the issue out.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Heh. The fact that it's been around for a while but is also intermittent (as in doesn't happen every day) would suggest that it's not an endemic lack of capacity but more likely dynamic changes or failures elsewhere that push more traffic through one particular link than usual. For example the traceroutes above, which show a lots of traffic leaving VM's network normally via different routes but all trying to come back via the 224.22 link.

Who knows. Well, VM's network engineers are supposed to...

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

maybe cheapskate peering arrangements that buckle on peak times (like new IOS for iPhone like it was 7/8 Nov).

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Here's mine:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/50.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

tbb got round to doing a story :)

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5...dia-again.html

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Well, the "recent" issues have all occurred over public peering, and the arrangements there are really "let computers talk to each other and agree routing automatically among themselves using BGP". Each company pays for their own connections to the system, and the system provides automatic connectivity to everyone else at the same speeds. The system doesn't distinguish between providers or destinations and there are no specific arrangement (other than the basic allow/ignore on a provider's ACL)

In this case VM are advertising about a dozen ways into their network (and indeed have around that many physical connections at LINX) - and the public peering exchange on LINX is really just that - a giant public switch where anyone can send data anywhere it pleases. The problem here is too many other providers are sending data back into VM's network through one node and not making sufficient use of the other 8.

Assuming this wasn't caused by a temporary fault elsewhere, this is not a routing or peering issue, it's a load balancing issue. And to be fair, load balancing across two distinct networks, a half dozen locations, a dozen ports, a hundred providers and thousands of routes is a complete bitch to get right.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------

Haha, they linked to Craigy's ping-o-tron

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Only just started to monitor the BB using think, but I can say my experience is also bad during "contention-rich" periods at night. Last night was shocking up to about 10pm, then I gave up.

I work for a managed provider of cloud services and I know how difficult it can be to have everything running flawlessly all the time. The only difference between the company I work for and VM, is that we actively contact the Customers (or post so they can see) to inform them of what the issue is, and why it's occuring, and follow up with an incident report.

Would be nice if we got something akin to transparency....however coming out and saying "Yeah, we're overloaded" wouldn't help their projections!

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Gigantic customer-facing consumer service providers like VM are rarely good at transparency, despite being communications companies (!).

Smaller and specialist providers have it easier providing that "personal touch" but partly that's because anyone who buys a cloud service from yourself will have a level of knowledge much higher than that of the average VM customer. The minimum entry bar is also higher, plenty of VM customers wouldn't have a clue what "hosting" is, the level of information they provide is therefore much different.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

yayy im so happy :D

They might have linked to yours if it wasnt so bad :p:

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Mine didn't have swanky flash animations on it, duh.

Plus, I'm happy being the one that comes up with good ideas and then fobbing it off to someone else to do all the hard work. :p:

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

PM me if you have any more good ideas. Im all ears ;)

---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

Okay..... who killed the ping-o-tron? :P

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:58 ----------

erm.... make that my whole web server :shocked:

going to be a long day for me :bigcry:

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:01 ----------

Hmmm working again now..... strange

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I never even noticed on my graph

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...8-11-2012.html

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Load issues? Slashdot effect? Kinda happens if you get front-paged on a major website because you're so useful.

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

More cores and an SSD on your webserver, just in case you get popular again.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Got an email off the hosting company this afternoon, ironically the downtime was actually due to them installing an SSD

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Oh, it's not a dedicated machine?

And they took it down during the day with no forewarning? Sounds like something VM would do...

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Yeah it is, they did tell me though a few weeks ago to be fair, and its an american run company, so things do get done at strange times, despite the server being in the UK

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

No bump tonight...

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

A slight bump on mine, but this seems to be due to STM kicking in. I downloaded the same 4.7GB until I got managed (just before 4pm). It's interesting that, although on a smaller scale, the bump seems to have the same characteristics as the larger bumps seen on previous graphs. This would lead me to guess, completely unscientifically, that some kind of traffic management system is causing the bumps, perhaps one that has not (yet) been properly configured?

On the other hand, i know nothing about this stuff, so I'm probably talking nonsense.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...08-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

It doesnt have the same characteristics, theres no change in your minimum latency (green bit)

Sorry, didnt wish to shoot you down in flames :D

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

aawww...

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...08-11-2012.png

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...08-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I love how my connection graph is better than your default gateway :D

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Oh great...look at my gayness...

Average ping isn't bad but still..up and down more than a Bangkok hooker.

My Graph

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

you could of just said it has no bump. other than that no it isnt better :p:

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Also bumpless.

Has it been fixed? If so why no explanation from VM this time. If not, what has changed on an ordinary Thursday evening?

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

I was just gonna say... "Your bump is a different colour"

---------- Post added at 21:58 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Crawley seems to be having it's own little bump but no congestion at the LINX end tonight.

As far as LINX is concerned most routes I see haven't been rerouted from the problem gateway so perhaps whatever was causing the overload yesterday is gone or has rerouted itself elsewhere.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

plus on zero useage I have zero jitter where, even when pretty flat, the gateway has around 5ms jitter

and dont act as if the bump isnt relevant :p:

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Well here's mine today...what on earth. Average is still acceptable, but look at the sea of yellow!!!

Using the superhub in Modem only mode so I thnk there is a limit to what I can get from it in terms of data, am I right?

Any ideas guys?

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Nice Poppy too Kymmy.

Anyway, I think my graph looks quite bad compared to many of the others I've seen on here. Anyway I can "check" what the hell is going on. Been ages since I've needed to get into any level of digging as connection has been rock solid for years.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Mine has gone mad too :P

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

No worries, I don't regard being wrong as being shot down in flames :)

I was thinking more along the lines of STM causing a bump, and some kind if DPI equipment, maybe misconfigured, also doing the same thing, but as you say, the minimum ping didn't really change on that small bump. It's all very odd, but then again not the end of the world.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Looks familiar!!

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Bumpless for 2 evenings now.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...09-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...09-11-2012.png

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...09-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Looks like mine might be starting to settle down now!

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...09-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Now thats suspect :shocked:

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

That was from a few days ago.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Maybe so, but the increase in base latency alone suggest's some shennanigans are going on imo.

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

it happened to everyone a few days ago, cause was established, simples

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

This is my broadband connection at the moment :(

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/14.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

doesnt look very broad :D

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Great 100 meg speed as well :D

It picked that server as it was the lowest ping

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/47.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

Bump has been absent for the last two days:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...11-11-2012.png

Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
 

What he said