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I was thinking the same the other day, Atherton, Vaughan, strauss, hussain, Stewart all saw their averages fall whilst captain, I'd go for a bowler, broad maybe but I don't want root to go down that well trodden path

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I can't think of many 'front line bowlers' who have been good or great captains.

Illy was a good captain but you wouldn't call him a front line bowler.

The odd keeper/batsman has done well but in general all the best captains have been batsmen. Mind you, all the best or at least most successful captains have had very good to great teams behind them.;)

A captain who is a front line bowler may not take himself off at the right time for a start.

All of the above England captains you mention TD with the exception of Vaughan had pretty crap teams playing against some very good teams for most of their tenure.

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In fact only Vaughan has a really poor batting record after becoming captain, most only saw a very small drop in performance and two of them, Atherton included actually improved.

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Vaughan was the one it was really noticeable with, I remember a series around 2000 when it took him to the third test to get an average as he was just never out. Cook and strauss were never the same players after becoming captains imo, two of them improved, oh Gooch, I never included him as he was the exception to the rule and thrived on the captaincy and getting older. It'll be good to see how cook performs post captaincy and they haven't included alec Stewart in there graph either, it can't have done him much good especially when he was keeping wicket

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The top 17 listed here, all bar one a frontline batsman, and Dhoni was not a bowler either.

http://www.fastcricket.com/answers/840/

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Its defiantly a mentality thing, ponting struggled with it graham smith thrived on it

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And Smith was only 21 when he became captain but there was no doubting his mental strength from the off.

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A great cricketer though he often clashed with KP and Strauss at times as they all shared very strong opinions.

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Windies v Pakistan ODI is on SKY Sports Mix this afternoon, for those too stingy to pay for Sky Sports ;)

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My my such a barbed comment this early Mr K.;)

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Barbed Den ? Just telling folks the crickets on for free, a rare thing these days !

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Just jesting Mr K as that is rare on this forum nowadays as well.;)

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Speaking of our beloved summer game, what do you think about the proposed eight team (franchise) T20 comp?

As a died in the wool test match fan I am unsure about the concept TBH.

Jim.

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We have to modernise our one day competitions Jim in order to compete with other countries editions of it as l love the 5 day tests but many others don't sadly.

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2 'free' live IPL games today on Sky Sports Mix. I'm getting to like this new channel. 11:30 & 15:30, that's today sorted :)

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Crikey a post without the usual Mr K moan.;):D

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Take it back IPL is as dull as ditchwater, what's all this 'timeout' cobblers, it's not baseball or is it?
( Good enough moan Den ? ;) )

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Phewwwwww.:D

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Yes we'll beat SA then lose to Bangladesh in the first match of the Champions Trophy..... England so predictable.

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Perhaps in your mind but not l....;)

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Well I wouldn't have called today's score predictable. :shocked:

20 for 6. atm.

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Indeed unlike Mr K's musings.;)

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They've got to drop Roy surely? Against top class bowling attacks England can crumble. Australia for the Champions Trophy I'm afraid.

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Such a pessimist Mr K but its obviously one of your strongest traits.;)

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Comes from following England Den.

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Also think that Bairstow should be in the side given Buttlers recent scores. Having said that it was an awful shot Bairstow played to get out.:(

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Good start for England, Morgan wins toss, vital in these early start games.

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l will keep you to that.;)

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Talk about putting the mockers on it, India bowled this lot out for peanuts a couple of days ago. Mind you it is a classic Oval 'shirt front'.

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Come on Jim the tournament has only just started and your pessimism is starting to pervade.;)

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Well apart from the injury scares and Roy's continued failures a decent start, the bowling will need to up its game though.

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We still won though and as Brian Clough once said there is room for improvement.:)

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What on earth is that weird Perspex doofer the umpire has strapped to his wrist?

EDIT. Apparently it is an arm protector. :)

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That's more like it, great all round performance apart from Roy. 😎

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Not miserable tonight then.;):D

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I'm never miserable, it's only a game after all. Just pleased to see a solid display.😊

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Semi finals now.:)

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Hope we don't take it easy on the Aussies on Saturday. Putting them on the plane home would 'set the tone' for the Ashes this winter :)

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Reading too much into the future is a unwise thing to do as it often backfires more then you can imagine.

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Stunning result on the cards at The Oval, looks like India or South Africa will be on their way home.:)

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They won't have expected that.:)

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Unless of course both of the last round of matches are washed out or no result, that's the only way India or SA can get through now.

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Well the weather is unsettled this weekend.

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Another shock on the cards in Cardiff, I had Bangladesh down as a one man batting line up and losing Tamin Iqbal in the first over should have been the death knell but they have fought back really well. There will be dancing in England's curry restaurants tonight. :cool:

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Sad to see that the Windies are not in this tournament but it looks like there is a good reason fo it. :shocked:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40231787

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

What a stunning catch from Roy. :cool:

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:clap::clap:

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Just a shame he can't bat.

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That is a bit harsh old boy.

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Maybe Den, but he's had more than enough chances.Im hoping it rains after 19.5 overs, match abandoned, no result and the Aussies eliminated. :)

I've just discovered the picture in picture function on my Samsung TV. This means I can watch the cricket and the Eng/Scot footy. Multi-tasking, happy days , Mrs K will be delighted ;)

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Are you hoping that now.;)

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Yes it would have been a more funny result for all the Aussies matches to be rained off, and them get eliminated that way. The weather has let me down.

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Feeble effort from SA so far, looks like all the southern hemisphere sides will be on the plane home.

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This is so funny, especially the second one with both players diving for the same crease. :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40240500

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That certainly gave me a chuckle this morning.:D

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Looks like neither side wants to face England. Pakistan are lobbing up dollies and Sri Lanka are dropping them.:shocked:

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:D:D

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And there are people who say that Amir, who helped Pakistan get over the finish line should not be allowed inside a cricket ground anywhere in the world.:(

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what is your opinion as someone who as someone who has cheated IMO should be banned for life.

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Difficult one, he was quite young at the time and was obviously badly influenced by Salman Butt etc. On the other hand a total, lifetime ban from all forms of cricket could be a major deterrent to others.

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Wow, Bairstow very lucky there, if that had been Roy the chances are the umpire would have given him out and he would have been on review.

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Not looking good sadly for England currently.:(

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Did say winning the toss was vital. :(

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Why oh why can't they prepare a pitch that is not slow.

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Ah, , the Pakistan effect. They're either crap or brilliant. They save brilliant for England....

Bit pathetic for England to blame the pitch...

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For Stokes not to get a boundary in his first 31 balls tell you something.....

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Apparently the competition rules insist that the same pitches are used throughout the competition.

Still a very lame performance, well beaten by the better side on the day.

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No certainly no excuses that is for sure but Mr K does tend to give his own one eyed slant sometimes on things.;)

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Now then Den don't be a 'grumpy git' ;)

India v Pakistan final, now that should be a lively event worth watching. Hope our armed forces are on stand by....

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Well played Pakistan, they were brilliant and deserved winners. There are estimates of up to a billion watching that little match in London today.

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Yep they destroyed England and India so they are worthy winners of the Champions trophy.

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Its the end for Blofeld .:(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40378783

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Very sad, no more buses or pigeons. :(

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Or cakes.:)

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Johnners was the original cakes man, Blowers was "the red bus coming down the Harleyford Rd".

I have listened to TMS since 1962 when an old farmer I used to help out as a youngster had it on an old tranny strapped to his tractor.

Just reading this brings lots of fond memories flooding back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_M...S_commentators

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The TMS commentary always preferable to boring Sky. Mute the TV and switch the radio on is the only way to watch.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40455556
:tu:
Only 20/20s but better than nothing, took the ECB a while to realise that put everything on pay channels was killing the game.

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Crikey do l sense a smile on your face for once.;)

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ashes series in doubt

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40459293

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All brinkmanship. They'll soon all settle when they realise all concerned will lose money big time. Sounds as though the players have a valid case.

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Players have the power now Mr K.

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So, Stoneman has just scored 144 not out, is scoring runs for fun in all forms of the game yet England bring back a player they have twice discarded in Ballance?

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Well you tell me why?.:(

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Perhaps the new England skipper twisted some arms. :(

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Ballance plays for God's own county so is bound to be better, it makes sense ;)

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Biasedness should not be shown Mr K when selecting and l find you guilty on all counts.;):D

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Guilty as charged Den ;)

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More like he wasn't born in England so he has to get preference.:(

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That does not come into it when one is picking the side as you pick the best talent around IMO.

Personally l think there are better players then him in that position.

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YORKSHIREMAN Ballance fails again. :(

And failed his partner Jennings by not advising a review.

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Well not much has changed it seems.:(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/38520656

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The other Yorkshireman did not fail though.:):tu:

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Well Bairstow did as well a Ballance, :P

Root was brilliant but also lucky, dropped twice, stumped of a very tight no ball when playing an appalling shot. :(

He looked knackered at the end but kept going really well. :)

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l hope you are not showing any bias against thy Yorkshireman Jim.;)

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As if, mind you I love to repeat the lines from the Oldham Tinkers famous song called Owdham Edge.

"An now wi come ter Yorkshurs line, a carnt si nowt past theer but grime".

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That Jim really cheered me up in the early morning.:)

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Are England trying to make Thais wicket look worse than it really is?:(

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Well we might just worm out way out of it yet.

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;):D

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The son in law was at Lords today, good day for him to see a result. :cool:

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Yes l certainly did not expect this scenario this morning.:)