Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

then you'll most probably be fine, i was when i got my 1st warning then my monitored letter congratulated me on lowering my usage which was 3x over the softcap still, this month its even less but still way over.

To me this new 10meg at 75gigs will just be about manageable, i would rather if there was a cap at all to see this increased to 150gigs hardcapped for the top tier and hard enforced so if you go over your downgraded automatically to say 512k for the rest of that month, thus this for me would mean no more interent usage watching and worrying "what will NTL do if i go over", which to be fair none of us want to do with BB because it is actually very easy to go over, if only the bods and NTL used some more common sense and actually read these forums because its all very well giving us these nice new speeds but it just seems like we are going back to dialup days

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

i'd like to se it enforced peek and off peak and then throteling if either of the caps goes over

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

I do get that but surely, the back-end infrastructure must be able to cope with demand. Example, you have say 100 users on a particular switch - upgrade them all to 10Mbps but forget to take into account that the switch is only capable of delivering 5Mbps (per user) to 100 users at any one time.

Fibre cabling is capable of delivering massive amounts of bandwidth so the bottleneck becomes the networking hardware which should be upgraded to meet the requirements of the users.

It would make more sense for NTL to offer everybody a slower product but allow everybody to consume as much bandwidth as they liked. The issue isn't the actual amount of data BUT the simple fact that, as an ISP, NTL are not capable of supplying each user with the maximum amount of bandwidth to everybody at any one time. That is fair enough but why dont they admit that rather than trying to release a product that they can brag about when it suits them but lambast customers for trying to use it.

An analogy I've seen on this forum many times is "its like telling customers subscribing to cable TV that they are aloowed to only watch x number of hours a day". Cable TV uses the same infrastructure and the same cabling yet people dont get a "usage allowance" on that.

One more point, before I go into meltdown, if NTL and Telewest are merging and Telewest DO NOT (AFAIK) put a usage allowance on any of their services, will that mean NTL will follow suit or will (former) Telewest services become subject to these measures. In fact, one FINAL point, for this post at least - if Telewest are able to offer unlimited download services, why aren't NTL?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

Whilst by all means I am not for caps, there is a difference where your CATV is fed from headend from within their own network, whereas on the internet your request can be to anywhere, ie ntl having to pay for peering.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

Telewest are able to offer unlimited because they have less customers, everything has been OK with NTL over the many years until very recently, you could download as much as you like and they couldn't care less. Its all about getting customers and once you have your user base you then cap the lot because most couldn't care less if they was capped or not as most just use the interent to read their e-mails, browse and shop online with abit of light downloads for gaming,video,ect.ect.

It would seem now that once the user base has grown to the point that limits are needed that they would rather kick off the higher usage user and replace them with 10 other Lite users, thats why they don't really give a **** about their customers who are now leaving as there will always be more joining, and I would say Eventually Telewest would have to follow suit rather than NTL go totally unlimited like Telewest, like most isp's are

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

Cable TV is broadcast and uses the same bandwidth whether nobody is watching the channel or every single customer is tuned into it. With the internet every user is doing something different to all the other users and there is simply not enough bandwidth for them all to be using their full speed 24/7.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

surely then it whould make sense that with ntls caching proxys (yes i know we all hate them) exteranal band width is less of an issue and in theory 10 meg whould decrease the amount of time each persons connection is maxed out, downloading from the internal network at 10 meg will create large internal burst's but reduce sustained external transfered.
yes i am aware that alot of large ransferes arntcached bu maby thats where ntl have gone wrong if theywere to internaly mirror populer files latest game patches, movie trailers ect.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

There are many things I dont understand about NTL. As mcmanic pointed out NTL are going for volume of customer's, they dont care if they all casual user's on the bottom tier it just adds to more people on their service. This means quality of service goes down and they become arrogant enough to get rid of power user's. The capping is very unusual, its an all day cap which will probably do little to ease peak time congestion whilst they could get better customer relations and handle peak time usage if off peak cap was high and on peak cap low. Then there is the postcode lottery, a user is been throttled for 56gig of usage which in today's age is pretty low for an isp to consider high, even plusnet are using a higher threshold. But in a different area a user is congratulated for dropping to 130gig. Telewest may have less user's but is that a bad thing? their is such thing as growing too fast and that is exactly what NTL are doing. I see packet loss, latency issues, throughout isses every single night now, and they wont dissapear with a 10mbit upgrade they will just get worse, this is a result of upgrading the end user's connection without upgrading the pipes carrying that data, the peering capacity. NTL is about one thing only now and that is getting new customer's its all they want to do, look at what changes they make it is all to draw in the new customer, I hope I get proved wrong and their is a ton of upgrades going on in the background but something tell's me their isn't. NTL are now at the size that makes them big and powerful enough to be arrogant, they can afford to lose customer's because new ones are coming in that fast.

Another new issue that I am confident will popup is when the proxy server's crumble under their new load's, especially people running speedtest's they realise their isnt a great deal of use for their new capped 10mbit so they run speedtest's all night so they can gloat.

I felt they have gone in the wrong direction here, I would have liked them to invest in improving their peering and capacity enabling them to lose the proxie's and improve performance and even raise their cap level's they could then have been proud of a more reliable and faster network offering high content, superior contention levels and great gaming performance, but that would not bring in new customer's so it wasn't done. :(

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

round of applause to the person that just put everything that was hacking me off into a coherent paragraph

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

Yeh thats put it in a nutshell.
For a lot of online gaming, NTL has been pretty poor, i know loads will jump to their defence and say its fine, well for playing poker online, it is. :(
And the speed isnt as important as not having to watch what everyones doing online capwise, and having a network that can cope reasonably at peak times.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

well said Chrysalis, NTL has reached that point it seems

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

I have downloaded 150gb this month. but I am on a 2mb connection. reakon they will downgrade me? coz i dont normally download this much usually 75gb tops a month.

phil

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

If it was a one off then you would probably just get a letter asking you to monitor your usage. If it was more than a once off you would probably still get a letter but a further occurence would probably get you downgraded.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

yay just been laughed at by my fellow irc users from places like Holland and Sweden when I mentioned from November I'll be surfing at 512k,its not so much the speeds too if I was 10mb and 75gb capped they'd be laughing too.NTL is so behind now.

Ive been downgraded to 512k from November,tbh I'm one of the few guys who couldnt careless about this,I managed to pull 150gbs in September without really trying.It was only 3-4 months back I was moved from 750k to 1.5mb so have been paying too much for that period at £24.99 when I should of had proper 2mb with good U/L.We all know that these 10mb speeds are pointless if you cant use it so I'll see how I go,still should blow a hole in what that cap is set at 75gb pm.

In fairness Ive had a great run with ntl 4-5 years of uncapped service never had a time really untill now Ive felt its time to move on,if their userbase is big enough they dont want people who d/l or really use bandwith.I'm sure they'll change when it hits their pockets and their userbase moves on and new users wont sign because of the poor packages.

This downgrading is moving people back to when they 1st signed with nynex and cable & wireless 4-5 years ago,only now other isp's competition is alot better than dial-up these days,so people will move.

I'll hold out now till SkyDigital bring out their net service or untill the football season ends which evers 1st.and change my whole package over as I'm sure £18pm for 512k is a joke next to other services these days just got the bulldog flyer again and aol uncapped looks ok infact is there a worse higher cost service than £18 for 512k ? I bet 3rd world countrys are better than this.

all the best theNomad
All we ask is a fair speed for price uncapped.its not much is it.

"I just found out also that the TV packages are changing cost even though not one week earlier they said the new channels where coming at no extra cost,so what I'll be saving on the net price being downgraded I'll be paying for channels I didnt want.Wont be just me pulling out too."
damn ntl giving with one hand taking with the other again.
__________________

well reading the bottom of the letter

Watch out in 2006 for more Broadband choice,including a range of services with unlimited usage allowances.

For the fine service NTL have given me and because I dont want to waste money on buying a 2nd premiership plus pass with SKY I'll give them till May with this current 512k when the football season comes to an end,if they dont offer a mid level package around 1.5mb-3mb uncapped at an OK cost then I'll be forced out.As the fast but capped services are as pointless to me as this 512k is.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)
 

Everyone in our family has moved away from NTL, but i'm all set up for adsl phone wise, just in case they move any more goal posts.
I wait with interest to see what these packages are, and if loads of people sign up for "unlimited" and use it to the max, and that impacts other users, what about that?
And i think if your paying for it, you should get it, or is that not how it works anymore.