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-   -   Police to get tough on internet trolls. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33703445)

RichardCoulter 12-11-2018 20:12
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970354)
That assumes they will have to attract professionals trained moderators - I have seen no evidence there will be a legal requirement for them to do this (or for any sort of moderator...).

There will be a meeting next year to discuss issues - it’s a giant leap from that to what you’re proposing.
True, but this is what Germany have done and Ofcom seem to want to model their scheme upon theirs. Whilst there isn't a requirement for them to recruit an army of moderators, I think that the new 'duty of care' requirements will lead to this.

I've also attended a fair number of meetings regarding this and it does look like this is how the problem will be tackled by the sites, but you are correct, nothing definate has been decided yet.

---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970341)
Richard, I was not being offensive. Read my post again. Why would you find anything offensive in my words?

You pick up on my use of the words 'sparring partners' and make me sound as though I was picking a fight. What I was doing was talking about those who seemed always to disagree with me on things, to our mutual enjoyment.

I think maybe you should re-visit your own posts over time and see whether these fit the bill of being 'kind' to others.

I am not out to pick fights, I am here to debate topics. If you don't want to hear alternative points of view to your own, don't post, and steer away from discussion forums.

We need to be tolerent of each other.

In answer to your question, I have answered it by saying that it is threats and threatening behaviour that should be looked into by the police. Anything less than that should not be. I am really quite offended by your post, but it is not a police matter, is it?

By your definition, we wouldn't be able to have any meaningful debates on here and we would all lose out as a result.

If I disagree with you, it is not personal, so stop taking it personally. Please.
I have no problem whatsover with discussing alternative points of view.
<comments removed>

Going back on topic, what type of threats do you think should be covered by this initiative and which shouldn't?

Do you think that abuse, harrassment etc should be covered or that vulnerable groups should be afforded more protection?

Paul 12-11-2018 20:45
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Thats enough.
This [professional] moderator (Administrator) is getting tired of your attitude.
If your going to be offended by everyone who disagrees with you, might I suggest moving on.

Oh, and what's a "vulnerable group" ?
Who decides if they are 'vulnerable' (or even a 'group') ?
No matter how many ways you look at it, its all subjective, one persons opinion v another persons.

The Police clearly cannot cope with all the crime atm, without wasting resources on this.

OLD BOY 12-11-2018 20:55
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970370)

Do you think that abuse, harrassment etc should be covered or that vulnerable groups should be afforded more protection?
<removed>

On your question about protecting vulnerable groups more - how the hell does anyone know which posters are from vulnerable groups? Should we label them?

The whole thrust of your posts on this subject are impractical, unworkable and well over the top. I am not the only one saying this to you.

I am not attempting to antagonise anyone, Richard and I have not made any personal remarks to you in the post that you have taken exception to.

RichardCoulter 13-11-2018 14:49
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Groups that need extra protection are those vulnerable by definition, such as children, those with mental or physical disabilities etc or those who have historically been the subject of harrassment, bullying, abuse etc, such as members of the LGBT+ communities, non white people etc.

There are many ways that such people can be identified e.g. self definition, photographs, things picked up (or suspected) during the course of a conversation etc.

To clarify, these are not soley my ideas, but I am interested in garnering the views of others in a subjective capacity.

Do you think that these groups should be afforded more protection?

Paul 13-11-2018 17:31
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970444)
Do you think that these groups should be afforded more protection?
No.

Why should certain, arbitary groups, get special treatment ?

Why do you think everyone else starts to resent these groups.

OLD BOY 13-11-2018 18:26
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970444)
Groups that need extra protection are those vulnerable by definition, such as children, those with mental or physical disabilities etc or those who have historically been the subject of harrassment, bullying, abuse etc, such as members of the LGBT+ communities, non white people etc.

There are many ways that such people can be identified e.g. self definition, photographs, things picked up (or suspected) during the course of a conversation etc.

To clarify, these are not soley my ideas, but I am interested in garnering the views of others in a subjective capacity.

Do you think that these groups should be afforded more protection?
The only way this could even get off the ground as an idea is if the people posting on the internet are labelled, and who wants that?

There is no way the public would accept such a thing, let alone Parliament.

Russ 13-11-2018 18:33
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970444)
Groups that need extra protection are those vulnerable by definition, such as children, those with mental or physical disabilities
As someone who has a 'mental disability' (2 actually, ADHD and Aspergers) I don't want or need protection thanks.

And one thing that gets my goat is people deciding that I do.

RichardCoulter 13-11-2018 20:35
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35970474)
No.

Why should certain, arbitary groups, get special treatment ?

Why do you think everyone else starts to resent these groups.
Because they are systematically oppressed, harrassed, discriminated against etc. Most people seem to have eventually accepted and embraced diversity and the belief that persons in the defined protected groups shouldn't be treated less favourably than others.

These groups were chosen for good reasons and not on a whim.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35970501)
As someone who has a 'mental disability' (2 actually, ADHD and Aspergers) I don't want or need protection thanks.

And one thing that gets my goat is people deciding that I do.
Not every disabled person is able to defend themselves. Should you suffer online abuse etc you won't be forced or obliged to use the protection afforded to you.

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970495)
The only way this could even get off the ground as an idea is if the people posting on the internet are labelled, and who wants that?

There is no way the public would accept such a thing, let alone Parliament.
No idea where you've got the labelling thing from, this is not part of the initiative at all.

I see you've evaded another question put to you.

Paul 13-11-2018 20:44
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970521)
Most people seem to have eventually accepted and embraced diversity and the belief that persons in the defined protected groups shouldn't be treated less favourably than others.
They should not be treated more favourably than others either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970521)
These groups were chosen for good reasons and not on a whim.
"Good reasons" in your opinion, nothing more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970521)
I see you've evaded another question put to you.
I have warned you once, this is the last time, if I see you baiting others again I will put you on a forced rest period.

Mythica 13-11-2018 20:48
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
What happens when certain people lie about something that has happened and then fail to provide evidence when asked, even by moderators then scream harassment. What protection does that person get when they are accused of abuse and harassment that didn't happen?

OLD BOY 13-11-2018 21:08
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970521)

No idea where you've got the labelling thing from, this is not part of the initiative at all.

I see you've evaded another question put to you.
If contributors to a forum are not labelled, how would you know to treat them differently? Your plan makes no sense.

Carth 14-11-2018 09:10
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970539)
If contributors to a forum are not labelled, how would you know to treat them differently?
Very good point. Will it come to the stage where anyone joining a forum or creating a social media account has to reveal any and all disabilities they have?

Would this then work against them in some cases? For example, a person who is an excellent online gamer is unable to become a member of an online gaming clan because they have Tourettes and swear constantly while playing.
Are they then said to be discriminated against because of the Tourettes or is it simply the clan rules that specify no swearing or cussing is allowed from anyone? Do they make an exception for that player, or will that cause unrest among the other members because the person is treated differently . . . . which sort of then discriminates against those players?

RichardCoulter 14-11-2018 17:36
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35970528)
They should not be treated more favourably than others either.


"Good reasons" in your opinion, nothing more.
There are instances where if would be appropriate to treat a vulnerable person more favourably, in fact the law requires this where appropriate.

The 'good reasons' that I cite are not merely my opinion. The systematic oppression, abuse and prejudice of Jewish people, black people, gay people, women etc is historically factual.

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970539)
If contributors to a forum are not labelled, how would you know to treat them differently? Your plan makes no sense.
It isn't 'my plan', don't know where you've got that from.

Labels would be undesirable and innapropriate for a whole host of reasons, so aren't part of the initiative However, those with protected characteristics would still be covered by the appropriate legislation.

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35970609)
Very good point. Will it come to the stage where anyone joining a forum or creating a social media account has to reveal any and all disabilities they have?

Would this then work against them in some cases? For example, a person who is an excellent online gamer is unable to become a member of an online gaming clan because they have Tourettes and swear constantly while playing.
Are they then said to be discriminated against because of the Tourettes or is it simply the clan rules that specify no swearing or cussing is allowed from anyone? Do they make an exception for that player, or will that cause unrest among the other members because the person is treated differently . . . . which sort of then discriminates against those players?
All very good questions. Nobody has to declare that they have any type of disability, but may choose to do so. This is usually done as a matter of practicality for all concerned, or could be done to alert others that adjustments in the provision of goods and services are required or just as a matter of courtesy to explain an unusual pattern of behaviour.

In your Tourettes example, the non disabled players would be expected to make provision for the needs of the disabled player.

Hugh 14-11-2018 17:49
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
And if children are playing, what provision could be made to stop them hearing obscenities?

Russ 14-11-2018 17:53
Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35970680)
There are instances where if would be appropriate to treat a vulnerable person more favourably, in fact the law requires this where appropriate.
What if I don't want that though?

What if I, as someone you class as 'vulnerable' due to my mental disabilities don't want to be treated any differently?


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