Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

At the moment they catch 60% of the quota, the people of Europe are going to be desperate for fish once the quota is set to zero

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Should we just call them bar stewards, then?

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

Once we leave the EU, all the fish in our territorial waters will be ours. Why is this so difficult for the EU to understand?

We are leaving, but it seems the EU cannot understand the concept of separation.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The EU’s massive problem is that it has written a lot of rules that make businesses in the EU inefficient. They have got away with it until now because all the major economies in Europe have been shackled together and protectionism keeps the rest of the world at bay. They now face the prospect of one of the biggest economies in the world on its doorstep not being held back by those rules. The risk to the EU is great. Nevertheless if they think they can deal with it simply by trying to ensure we remain aligned to their rules they’re going to be disappointed. They may hate to admit it but our presence on their doorstep yet outside their laws will ensure we continue to exercise a subtle restraint on their zeal for regulating everything in sight.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

From the Express

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssports-brexit

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

If that was the case, what are the EU getting so awkward about? After all, if it makes no difference to UK waters, why are they so ready to give away access to EU waters?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Yay! Wasn’t the whole point!

The U.K. are totally correct to advise the “level playing field” can go whistle in the wind.

The EU have forgotten what a competitive free market is,

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Not if that's the case that is the case, you know we've even sold of the rights round the Falklands, I think the Norwegians own them.

---------- Post added at 02:21 ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 ----------

There would have been precious little point in leaving at all if we adopt the level playing field

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The problem with the term 'level playing field' is that it is very broad. Even WTO rules have level playing field clauses around subsidies, intellectual property rights and discriminatory actions against imports.

As the mutually agreed political declaration said about level playing field actions;

Even if we went for an 'Australian deal', AKA 'No deal', AKA 'hard Brexit', there would still be level playing field restrictions.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The EU meaning of "level playing field" is very different from the WTO. If it wasn't there would be no need for the EU to mention it.
Link

If anything it is the EU that ignores the WTO level playing field by imposing unnecessary conditions. Classic example of that is the ban on chlorinated chicken. The publicly announced reason by the EU is that it was too safe, in that possible cheaper conditions in the abattoir could be hidden. IE The infection levels in the final product were so low, you couldn't tell the difference between that and a higher standard abattoir. That would also mean the infection level from a higher standard abattoir would be even better than current levels if they used the chlorinated process.
Link
Link

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The chlorine-washed chicken issue comes up with monotonous regularity, hilariously it is often brought up by Europhiles (and/or America haters, sometimes they’re the same thing) who don’t understand the rationale behind the process, and where and when it may be used, and assume that it must have something to do with chemical poisoning or a finished product that is otherwise unsafe (when in fact a final chlorine rinse ensures chicken is extremely safe).

I suspect to get to the bottom of this you would have to trawl through EU records from the time this issue was discussed and regulated. I’d bet hard cash that somewhere in the paper trail you will find a lobby group with powerful connections in one of the principal member states that pushed for a ban on chlorine washing. It could either be an industry lobby that had already invested in other processes, or it could have been green politicians in a coalition somewhere, forcing their majority partner to make concessions.

Either way it is a talisman for everything that the EU fears might happen in the UK if they don’t secure dynamic alignment. They know perfectly well that the process is safe and cheap. Here, and in a lot of other areas, the UK has the potential to make EU imports look ridiculously expensive by freeing up domestic producers to do things in other, cheaper ways. This is why they don’t want to take the more common trade deal route of mutual recognition of standards. They need continuing alignment in the UK because it is a critically important export market for them, which they fear is about to get much more difficult for them to sell into.

In a mutual recognition scenario, British producers would in some cases be able to sell products in the EU that meet British standards (in others compliance with EU standards might still be required), but in all cases British producers selling in the British market need only comply with British standards. The opportunity to cut costs for British business here is immense, especially as the vast majority of British businesses deal only domestically.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

My understanding is that the chlorine thing is perfectly safe but that the reason for it's existance in America is lower handling and raising standards generally whereas chicken is still perfectly safe here and within the EU due to other regulations.



So as long as those farming standards continue to be met then I don't see the problem. That said instinctively I would likely steer away from chlorine washing chicken because it sounds weird. In the same way I tend to avoid meat packed in plastic prefering to eat less of it but buy it from a butcher when I do. Mass produced meat just feels instinctively bad.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Do you steer away from tap water and pre washed salad.

If chlorine washed chicken is on the shelf no one will force you to buy it.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It’s that “instinctively weird” aspect of it that has allowed those with a very pro-EU and anti-US agenda to make hay out of the chlorine-washed chicken issue. They’re relying on general public ignorance of science and food hygiene to make political points.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I agree, the depth and intensity of the level playing field with the EU is much stronger. However, what I was saying is that even with the least strong trade agreement with the EU, namely WTO rules, there are level playing field requirements.

As the political declaration states, the nature of the commitments will depend on the level of openness of the UK and EU markets to each other. There isn't a level playing field or no level playing field, there's going to be a lot of horse trading over the next few months.

Of course, Boris Johnson said that there will no regression of at least environmental standards and employment rights so there's nothing to worry about there at least

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

So...

First of all you chose to ignore the top part of the response. which equates to the following

European FSA says they have “no safety concerns” with the chlorination of chicken.

However they also say that this practice might not be sufficient for maintaining good hygiene standards throughout the slaughter process.

Secondly you're absolutely right, no one will force you to buy it, providing their is enough information provided to the consumer to make that choice.

It's the same with hormone injected beef (again currently banned by the EU) If it is agreed to then so long as consumers are presented with clear information regarding source and content then it's on the consumer to decide.

My concern is that consumers won't have the information readily provided in a clear format they need given to them in order for them to be able to make an informed decision.

It's not as though manufacturers have ever tried to hide things from the consumer before is it....

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

KFC -Kentucky Fried Chlorinated?? Can't see it going down well. If there are decent hygiene standards, which there are in the EU, it isn't necessary. Low US standards are the issue.

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That sounds a familiar campaigning tactic ! ;)

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

But not ones to be imposed in one direction by the EU, very above and beyond WTO rules(eg tax), and all with no say in those rules.


If the end product is safe, then that should be the end of it. How is washing with just air and water safer than washing with air, water, and chlorine wash?:confused: Are we really expected to believe that conditions in Eastern European countries match those in Germany?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Just in case it has been lost on anyone here, banning chlorinated chicken will not mean that we cannot import American poultry. Chlorination is being phased out in the States in favour of lactic acid washing, which we already permit in relation to the sale of beef.

So this whole debate is irrelevant.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

That's what I am saying, if we want to be part of the WTO, there has to be a degree of level playing field rules in place. All it comes down to now, is how much further access we want to the EU markets and how much we are prepared to sacrifice to get that access. If nothing, at present it looks like WTO rules which, as I have said, includes those mild level playing field rules already in place.

I haven't really been taking part in the food standards chat but if you were to compare eastern Europe food with German food, then we know that all comply with a minimum standard at least set by the EU. If we relaxed our food standards below EU rules, then if businesses choose to import food that falls below those standards, then we won't be able to process and export to the that food to the EU without sophisticated rules of origin in place. It's our choice

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

You have a link for that OB?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Not at all.

The principle underpinned by EU rules is that good hygiene practices must be followed at all stages of production. Chlorine washing is banned - ostensibly at least - because it can be used as a substitute for good hygiene in earlier stages of production. Lactic acid washing would provide dirty producers the same potential cover, and would therefore contravene the stated intention of the EU rules. In other words, if it becomes a thing, you can expect the EU to ban it.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It's not irrelevant. It is just one of many other EU rules that are merely protectionist in nature. If using lactic acid provides the same level of protection as chlorinated wash, then surely the EU will ban that as well, for the same reasons, whatever they might be.
The EU is insisting on way beyond WTO rules and nothing whatsoever to do with trade.
Link

Time and time again whenever these EU rules are introduced the issue of cheaper imports is used in the argument.


The notion of an EU imposed level playing field would also mean we couldn't block EU goods that didn't meet our own higher standards, if we were to introduce any. Eg in the past we had higher standards for UHT milk than the EU and blocked French imports that didn't meet those standards. Guess who had to give way. We would have to follow whatever rules they set.


The EU provides massive levels of state aid to whole countries, eg Poland 9billion/year.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I think we're both saying the same thing here! If we are OK with WTO rules only, we get non-discriminatory access to EU markets (MFN status) but also tariffs, rules of origin requirements, no origin cumulations, etc.

It looks like if we want to good stuff, i.e. tariff free access, harmonised standards, mutual recognition of standards and qualifications, rules of origin cumulation etc., the EU are asking for a level playing field beyond WTO rules.

Of course, they can ask, it's up to the UK to do a cost/benefit calculation and decide if it's worth it politically. They could of course ask business what it thinks and wants. If leaving the EU is supposed to reduce red tape, then this should be a good thing

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

https://www.ft.com/content/6cf7bba6-...5-8e03987b7b20 Other link to same story - https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news...uiG2?li=AA54rU

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The prohibition on end-stage disinfection is supposed to be a disincentive against bad hygiene practices at earlier stages. Which to me makes about as much sense as addressing dangerous driving by banning seatbelts.

Poor farming and slaughtering practices should be dealt with by effective monitoring and enforcement, not by banning a simple, effective way of eradicating potentially lethal bacterial infections right before the meat goes to market.

But, as I said earlier, I don’t buy the EU’s line about it being a simple and effective way of ensuring animal welfare and food hygiene. There have been lobbyists and vested interests at work somewhere - when it comes to EU directives, there always are.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The point is, surely, that we will no longer have to obey EU rules.

I see no reason why we shouldn't specify any hygiene requirements that would have to apply in any trade deal with the US.

The government has already confirmed we will not be importing chlorinated chicken, so those who keep re-stating these stories are simply scaremongering.

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It is irrelevant. The EU rules will not apply from 2021, and in any case, acid is already used on beef.

So it's a non-issue.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It's still an issue because the EU are insisting we have to keep doing whatever they tell us to.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

BJ and Carrie (now his fiancée) are having a baby - knew he wouldnt respect the withdrawal agreement... :D

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

;)

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Impregnated out of wedlock ??? A resigning issue for sure ;). How many kids/partners/wives now ?? Even his Wikipedia page isn't sure about the number of kids...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson
:D

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Step away from the mirror, then... :D

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Really, public ignorance and the EU, who would have thought that'd be a thing. Incidentally how much rat hair in your paprika do you find acceptable, are you fine maggots in your orange juice?

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If it's known as the Boris baby I may well scream

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The Mail on Sunday is reporting that a senior adviser believes we don't need a farming sector. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-official.html

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Well Vegetarians and Vegans are out to destroy it anyway.



His argument was that it isn't big enough from a Treasury point of view to get special status.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Don't know how you work that out, we all have to eat something. Up to farmers to adapt to what the public wants, same as any other industry.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

We work it out by listening to the drivel about meat production destroying the planet,the public want's meat on the table.only a minority follow the vegan fad and after watching two idiots cooking vegan food on tv i doubt they will have a long life expectancy, it's all chemicals and artificial muck.
ANY hoo enjoy your carrot pie and cabbage water gravy.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Let everybody eat what they want ? Doesn't really affect you? Personally I love my cheese, so veganism isn't for me, but I don't despise anybody that chooses to do differently.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

And the fishing sector is a tiny sub-sector of that but we still seem to be basing our entire business strategy around that at the expense of manufacturing and services.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The fishing sector may be small at this time but you need to look into the future possibilities of this once great industry,there are a lot of fish in our waters.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

"Overnight" you would still have a lot of animals alive and requiring everything that goes with it. Fishing can't exactly be replaced, not all land is suitable for growing crops, not all crops are that suitable for the UK, eg Soya, and look what happens to crops when the weather is too dry or wet or hot or cold.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

People are allowed to eat what they want as what give you the right to be judgemental about those who don't consume meat.

---------- Post added at 10:45 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

Its called personal freedom of choice...

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

What gives you the right to be judgmental against me, is it perhaps freedom of speech :shrug:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

No ones stopping you from your freedom of speech.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Freedom of speech isn't simply a matter of somebody saying something. It is what are the consequences of speaking out, inhibition of speaking out because of the fear of those consequences, and being brainwashed into thinking that X is the only acceptable opinion.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

So nobody should campaign for anything or they might risk changing your mind? It's going to make elections interesting....

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It is the way pressure is applied. It cannot be denied that in elections the Liberals and the Left attack anything and everyone that doesn't agree with them. You are not allowed to have certain opinions or even to highlight facts that go against their agendas. Pick any topic and it only the Liberal/Left viewpoint that is allowed to proceed.

---------- Post added at 12:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

His comments were in the context of the Treasury and any special treatment. It wasn't a case of objecting to the whole sector in every way.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

The same could be said of the right. Look at the way the overwhelmingly right wing media in this country go full out to demonise anyone who is Labour leader.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

So is it your view that we should just roll over and accept it? I certainly don't.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Sure, pip.

https://news.sky.com/story/acid-wash...stice-11941237

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They cannot insist. We will not be in the EU from next year and we won't be accepting their nonsense in return for a trade deal.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Its not just Corbyn they've done it to everyone (apart from Blair who was a Tory !)
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/03/1.jpeg

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Vegans are a militant bunch with extreme views, and both they and the vegetarians are in the minority. They have no right to tell the rest of us what to eat.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Generalising again OB? Some quietly just do their own thing. What's it to you, what others eat ? The numbers are increasing all the time for a variety of reasons.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Some are, who are the ones that get noticed - that’s like saying all right-wingers are like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (AKA "Tommy"); I am sure you would not like to be labelled as the same as ”Tommy Robinson"...

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

That is hilarious, do you do stand up too?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I don't care at all about what they eat. It's a free country. They are the ones protesting about meat eaters, even going to the lengths of barging into restaurants to complain.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Whilst in principle I agree with you (shock, horror), we mustn’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Financial Services in the U.K. are 7% of the economy, employ 1.1 million people, contributing over £130 billion to the economy, with £30 billion of tax revenue.

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51706802

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Yup, lose 7% in GDP with a no-deal Brexit but gain 0.16% with a trade deal with the US. Only the priviliged rich can comfortably take a hit like that.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

That's right, keep believing, in Boris we trust, that woken you up yet? ;)

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

But economic arguments are relevant - 1.1 million jobs are real and relevant, as is the £130 billion contribution to our economy; can you give me an example of what could replace these?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

But I just showed the Government figures expecting that our increased trade with our biggest single (country) market is going to increase the UK economy, over 15 years, by 0.16%...

You seem be hoping for some yet undefined miracle. :erm:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Remainers still seek alignment with the EU because it’s the next best thing to membership and makes eventually rejoining the bloc an easier sell.

Leavers still seek a clean break because that is the only way to achieve the various priorities of the coalition of interests that brought us successfully out of the EU - whether that be control of fishing, borders, immigration, trade policy or the basic principle of national sovereignty.

Thus far, absolutely bog all has changed and if this “debate” continues along these same lines for the next 9 months it is going to be so, so boring ...

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

No further questions m'lord.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

So . . . we're going to lose 1.1 million jobs then . . or is that just a wild stab in the dark to make things look bleak?


Also, in complete honesty and speaking as one who had the rug pulled out from under him a few times when 'up north' got decimated . . it's about time someone else copped it :p:

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Boring. Do you play any other tunes?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

It will always be "up north" particularly the North East that gets it. London and the South East will be less adversley affected.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

You appear to accidentaly misinterpreting what I wrote.

I want the best deal for our country (I live here, my family and friends live here - anyone who wants a deal that damages our economy or our country is being blinded by partisan politics) - the point I made was that perhaps it was more appropriate to focus on getting a good deal on something that is a major part of our economy, and if it was diminished by additional tariffs, would have a negative effect on our economy, than on a small part of our economy, just to "stick it to the Frenchies".

Hope that clarifies the matter.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Lest you have forgotten, it was the north that wanted to leave the EU.

I still do not buy your 'doom and gloom' scenario, Andrew. We will still trade with the EU, and the rest of the world is our oyster.

I don't believe these forecasts you keep referring to for one minute. Time and time again, they have been proved wrong, by underestimating Britain's capacity to adjust. They will be proved wrong again.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

There was also a majority to leave in the South-East, the South-West, the East, the West Midlands, the East Midlands, and Wales - none of which are in the ”North"...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Scotland voted remain and that definitely is in the North. They might vote Leave in different vote though...

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Really ! they never mention it.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I didn’t vote remain. Mind you, as I’m not a nationalist I don’t confuse myself with Scotland, nor do I assume that the whole of Scotland agrees with me.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I would dispute that statement. The 52% that voted leave were distributed fairly evenly.

Although, when the represent how people voted on a constituency basis it skews it diagrammatically

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:14 ----------


All of Scotland? Really?

Because for the last 3 years you’ve been reminding everyone on here, on a near daily basis, how not everyone in the U.K. voted leave.

So at least, using your logic now in how you interpret the Scottish vote, you now accept the U.K. as a whole, as a bloc, voted leave.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I know, but I was responding to Andrew's comment. He didn't mention the South-East, the South-West, the East, the West Midlands, the East Midlands, and Wales, so nor did I.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:36 ----------

Neither Andrew nor I were referring to Scotland.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

In other news: The Telegraph seems to be a getting a bit more realistic of late and is now reporting on the future significant negative impacts of Brexit, beginning with Northern Ireland.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status...06129639055360
http://m.email3.telegraph.co.uk/nl/j...witter,4422d04

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Linkage?

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Paranoid, much?

I’m appealing for basic forum etiquette.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

As I posted that news, with a link, over a week ago, you needn’t bother.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=2493

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

I found it very ironic that Barnier was saying the UK should respect the EU's independence in negotiations. Yet we are not the ones asking to follow our laws and rights.

We are not asking them to accept duristiction of our courts like they are.

Funnily enough it seems the EU want their cake and eat it.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Been on TV this morning that there are calls for arrangements to leave fully to be suspended due to the Coronavirus.

The banks are already dipping into their 'no deal' fund to help businesses through this.

Leavers accused remainers of using it as an excuse to carry on with the situation we have now.

Remainers argue that leaving with no deal on top of the effects of the Coronavirus will be catastrophic for the economy, especially since various organisations have/are to dip into their funds built up to mitigate the effects of leaving without a deal in place.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Give up you lost,it's happening get over it and move on.

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 

Coronavirus is a far more important priority for the UK currently then any tribal political willy waving in my view.