Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's funny. Most of the Scottish Yessers I talked to on the interwebs during the referendum campaign were absolutely certain Wales wanted independence too. Mind you, they were also absolutely certain they were going to win, and win big, and look how that turned out.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Judging by the comments being made by Green Party officials on their Facebook feed, more than a few of the newbies have joined more than one political party. I think the raw enthusiasm is possibly preventing people from understanding what membership of a political party entails. Suits me though, the SNP will become a glorious muddle if the party managers are forced to let all these raw recruits vote on policies and new leadership. With any luck, the SNP will start to look like Labour, circa 1981. Which would be hugely entertaining.

In other news, today's internet rant is brought to you by the number 37.8, which is the percentage of the 4.2 million enfranchised Scottish voters who were sufficiently motivated to actually vote for independence last Thursday. I can understand people not being excited about the establishment and status quo, but dear old Mr Salmond did promise us that Scotland would vote for independence, if only it got the chance. Well, it had the chance, and Scotland didn't even come close...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Maybe they think they'll get some freebies. :)

Salmond always did talk a good fight.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

By way of drawing a line under this, I thought it was worth sharing just how badly Yes Scotland screwed up, by their own set of missed targets:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...chest.25463342

Here are the Weirs, who contributed £3 million out of the £4.8 million raised.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sites/...9/25470157.jpg

If it hadn't been for that one single lottery win, Yes Scotland would have had almost no clout at all. We will only ever be able to guess how stunted their tell lies to the neds grassroots campaign would have been, with just £1.4 mill in the bank.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I hope the Weirs believe they obtained good value for their money. What do they say about fools and their money??...

The SNP obviously took a leaf out of Gordon Brown's treatise on financial realism.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They aren't letting up, next is a rally in George (Freedom :rolleyes: ) Square.

Not sure about the name of the band second down on the right. :erm:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/10/18.jpg

Still if you want to be lectured by a convicted perjurer and sex pest plus associated nobodies get yourself down there on Sunday.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Mmm, a good old fashioned hard left rally. I wonder how many people will turn up in the cold and the rain to get yelled at by Tommy and his pals.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Lol at the band name. Hmmmm

Also what a list of speaker. I see at least two River City actors.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

ISIS are going :confused: let the bombing begin

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Happier now they are ISIL to be honest. Saves confusion with people in my profession.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think we should bomb them all just to be sure, who'd have thought multiple name changes would bring about such confusion, all that technology and we're not sure who to bomb now.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sturgeon to be next leader of SNP

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-29618913

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Predictably the Nats (Aka the losers) are going tonto about this.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29921797

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They're outraged about something that never happened - just like the result they wanted... :rofl:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nicola Sturgeon becomes First Minister

Link

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

David Cameron just said on TV, with regard to losing Rochester by-election

"If you don't win something, it doesn't mean you should just give up and not continue to fight for something you believe in"

Dave, remember the Referendum and how you tell us all to get back in the box and accept the result.

Double standards or what!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

He wasn't talking about you, get back in your box.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:p:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not really. Continuing to fight to win seats in Parliament implies acceptance of the agreed five year schedule of elections. Continuing to fight for Scotland to leave the UK, on the other hand, has no constitutional basis. All we have to go on there is the SNP's white paper, which called the 2014 referendum a once in a lifetime event, and the words of Alex Salmond, who expressed similar sentiments only a week before the vote.

Everyone who voted in Rochester understood that they were electing an MP only until next May. Everyone who voted in Scotland in September understood that they were voting in a once in a generation, if not once in a lifetime, referendum on the nation's constitutional status.

It's only the duplicitous Nats who have spent almost every day since then, trying to find excuses to wriggle out of a commitment they made when they thought they wouldn't have to honour it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There once was a politician who backtracked. There once was a political party who done a 180 degree manouevre. It could happen again.

Define lifetime. Human, dog, parliament?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Meanwhile.

"Scotland is to get a new newspaper, the National, which will be the first Scottish daily to support independence."

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Fixed that for you. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Thanks.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Looks like the SNP are going back to their roots by holding public rallies that glorify the leader and burning books they don't agree with.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-...itics-30302865

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Seems that the SNPs spending policies after independence would have been in tatters with the slump in oil prices:

Linky

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That'll be down to the evil English you know... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sshhhh! The oil was only ever a bonus / would have recovered by the independence date / people would have paid more coz its Scottish oil / MI5 are manipulating the markets.

There, that's all the yes camps arguments. Choose whichever one you want.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Just out of interest I wonder how well 'Scottish petrol' would sell if it were marketed separately and priced higher. Notwithstanding the vast amount of tax already levied on petrol, would people freely pay more in order to further support their state?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Indeed, and it would have had billions less at a time when it would have needed to spend extra to set up infrastructure to replace that lost when the various uk government ministries pulled out..

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Obviously it's all a big conspiracy. Dave has called in a favour with the House of Saud, and they've flooded the market with cheap crude just to put one over the Nats.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is actually what the Russians believe. Their economy is tanking due to the combination of Western (do you capitalise 'Western'?) sanctions and low oil prices and they believe the latter is a political decision from OPEC who aren't, yet, restricting the supply.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It would be worth your while reading this handy piece of analysis:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30289546

What they actually seem interested in, is putting a big dent in the budgets in both Tehran and Moscow, but it's Saudi Arabia specifically, rather than the whole of Opec, that's behind it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30525539

Things are looking grim..:(

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes well this is the flip side of the coin - we all like to moan about fuel/energy prices but tend to forget all those companies and individuals whose livelihoods depend on them.

Wonder how well the SNP's vote would have stood up had this all happened a few months ago. Still I'm sure they have a credible 'plan B' to replace all that lost oil revenue...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You mean the estimate of $113 a barrel that the guessers were proclaiming was a low figure isn't happening? :dozey:

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

The oil money was just a bonus... Even if it was spent 4 times over at their ridiculous estimated price.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Stop the scaremongering!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Of course they will leave, its just a matter of when. In order to make sure it happens with the least amount of meltdown we should decide when and how before Salmond forces it upon us.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The UK's oil fields are a long way past the levels of production and return on investment that justified building massive industrial facilities in the middle of the sea. The only thing keeping them going is the belief that long term high sale prices for the product will enable all those rigs, helicopters and other expensive infrastructure to keep operating profitably. Only time will tell whether that belief will be borne out.

Thankfully, here in the UK we have a reasonably diverse economy in which oil accounts for 1.5% of the tax take. I pity any country where ... oooh ... 10-20% of public spending relied on it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I just cannot stand the SNP. They are a disgrace to Scotland ,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:clap: could not agree more...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Looks like the boost in members and possibly funds has given the SNP money to burn.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...lmond.26228718

Maybe the stories about flunkies washing and drying his hands are true after all. Can't have The dear leader mixing with the proles.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sounds like just the sort of deal that well known working class hero Arthur Scargill might have secured for himself from the NUM...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

be easier to fill the Daimler up now that the Oil prices have collapsed...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

True. Is anyone up there in SNP land talking about how their sums and projections are looking now?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nope. Wee Nippy has made like a Trident submarine and vanished without trace. They are keeping their heads well down and hoping everyone's too stupid to do the sums and work out what would happen to an independent Scotland's balance of payments if a situation like this occurred, with the buck stopping in Edinburgh rather than London.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It varies between them saying the oil was only ever a bonus and wild conspiracy theories that Westminster are behind it to destroy the North Sea oil industry as revenge for the referendum.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes, oil is "just a bonus" but was simultaneously something they thought the UK's balance of payments couldn't do without, therefore being the final argument in favour of currency union.

Cogent, internally consistent arguments are not the Nats' forte.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Is anyone planning on asking the SNP what the oil price situation is doing to their sums and projections? I think I would be asking very loudly indeed but perhaps everyone's keeping their powder dry.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Scottish "government" has been asked why the constant deluge of oil price projections we were treated to prior to the referendum, seems suddenly to have dried up. It has been asked if it wouldn't mind issuing a new projection, allowing for recent changes. It has declined to do so.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Oh right. Now why would that possibly be?... :rolleyes:

Is anyone up there daring to contemplate just what the mood would be like now had Salmond and his crew got their way or is that verboten too?
Must be a whole lot of red faces up there and not due to all that Scotch...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Do you have a link for that? (Want to gloat :D).

Seriously however this is a perfect time for Westminster to prove what we've being saying for the last year, that Scotland is better in the Union. Osbourne should head up to Aberdeen and announce the tax break that will help save some jobs and reiterate that the treasury will be on hand to help where it can.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Gloat away. :D

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...usal-1-3656632

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There doesn't appear to be any change. The line is now that the SNP only said oil was a 'bonus' but quite how 15% of your GDP which you're already spending is a bonus is left unanswered. They don't seem to remember how warnings that oil is a risky commodity were dismissed as scaremongering. All that scaremongering didn't quite turn out to be so unfounded.

If there was any sense then the SNP would seen a big drop in the polls as voters realise they almost sold them down a certain creek without a paddle in a ideological drive for Independence whatever the cost and whatever the risk.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Seems it has been a line since back in July 2013.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

And as I pointed out. It's rubbish. It's economic incompetence of the highest order to assume 15% of your GDP is a bonus, especially when it's already being spent.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Damien, did I say anywhere that it wasn't rubbish?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Correct. However that should not detract from the 40-odd years prior to that, during which it was more or less the bedrock of their case.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Correct. However that should not detract from the fact that the statement was made in 2013.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It doesn't. The fact that the "oil is a bonus" line began to circulate in the summer of 2013 is indeed significant. It shows that, having campaigned for independence for 80 years, the SNP made no serious effort to look at the economics of it until after the referendum campaign had begun. The ineptitude is staggering. It is no wonder that they almost wore out the word "scaremongering" by endless repetition. They had no case. They knew they had no case. The arch-gambler, Salmond, had a worthless hand but thought he could bluff his way through it. In the end, the electorate saw through it and he was comfortably beaten.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well I hope that if our Scots gambler takes a seat in Westminster he's reminded frequently of the pup he tried to sell.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No need to repeat yourself, Chris. As you say it was made in 2013 and is not a case of just "now" being the line adopted.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's your (very narrow) point and you're sticking to it. ;). Fair dos. It does, however, miss the broader, more important point. The SNPs case was based on oil right up to the point where they actually did some sums, at which point we were treated to two years of obfuscation, bluster and sleight of hand. Some were taken in by it. Most weren't. Now, world events have shone a spotlight on the issue.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Quite, Chris. Again, no need to repeat yourself, I don't dispute your version of events. I felt it was important to establish the facts as to when the comment was apparently first reported.

In saying that I've no wish to get in the way of or impede grown adults wanting to "gloat" over or take particular delight from a fallible human being, or group thereof, failing to accurately predict world events.

Carry on.;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The SNP don't provide you with enough financial nonsense and anti-English veiled racism for you?

Well you're in luck as a new pro-independence party is being set up to capitalse on the ongoing mass hysteria up here.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/de...np#.cmRkznQY20

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Splitters!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Didn't see that coming :dozey:

With any luck, the People's Front of Judea will nick a few votes off the Judean People's Front, and dent Sturgeon's chances of retaining control next year.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Heh :D. Not if the SXP get their way (the SXP is my new 'sexy' Scottish Party).

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Has anyone asked the SNP's about what the state of their economy would be now with Brent Crude trading at $45 a barrel? I dare say it's questions like that which they and their supporters don't want asked.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

When you say 'supporters' do you mean the majority of the Scottish electorate? It's just that anyone wishing to preserve the Union might consider it unwise to belittle their choice of representation for the sake of a question best left (known but) unsaid.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

When he says supporters, I suspect he means (at most), the exactly half of those who voted in the 2015 general election, that being the most recent electoral test they have faced.

Note the difference between those who vote, and the electorate as a whole. 35.5% of the electorate supported the SNP at the general election - that's 50% of voters on a 71% turnout.

And, by the way, we had all those dire threats last year, about how unionists had better shut up, or else every time they open their mouth the Yes vote will get bigger.

How did that work out, does anyone remember?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes I did mean those who voted for Salmond's nonsense. :)

Maybe those who naively voted SNP (whatever proportion that was) believing their Greek style economic projections have had time to consider their very good fortune that the referendum went the 'wrong' way. Had it not done so they'd be well and truly up a certain creek without a paddle. As for leaving such questions unsaid, why? Those fine proud Scots ought to be man enough to admit their good fortune or do the other thing and carry on regardless. They're great at dishing out the 'auld enemy' guff when things are going pear shaped so maybe a taste of reality on their own would have been good for them. I think the SNP's leadership needs to be shown up for what it is and if that makes more Scots vote for them so be it. Let them have their way or shut up.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In any election only those that bother to vote matter so supporters are the active electorate.

Or, let them eat cake. It seems that pomposity remains a virtue.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Stop squirming. There is an electorate and there is a turnout. Simple as. Inventing phrases like "active electorate" after the fact is pretty poor as a fig leaf for not understanding the difference between winning an election, and the general level of support within the electorate for one particular policy.

The SNP has, at best, the support of around one-third of adults in Scotland. Not that it's relevant to the point Osem was making. You don't get to dish out threats about what might happen if unionists speak out of turn. That's the rather ugly face of nationalism in Scotland - the same face that mounted regular, intimidatory demonstrations outside BBC Scotland throughout the summer of 2014 while claiming it was just some sort of great big democratic jamboree.

To make the point for the nth time: separatism picked a fight and lost. Everyone, beyond the slightly unhinged hardcore of the nationalism movement, knows this. Even wee nippy Sturgeon knows this. There isn't going to be another referendum any time soon. It's over. Finito. And that being the case, the SNP is now simply a left of centre alternative to the Labour party, which is currently in such a bad state it can't even win elections in Scotland.

The SNP may well take every constituency in Holyrood next year, but it doesn't mean we've suddenly all gone Braveheart.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A bit superfluous. My point is that there is no value in a we-told-you-we-were-right-and-you-were-wrong attitude. I'm sure the Scots are politically adept enough to come to their own conclusions.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not even when the "we" clearly were right and the "you" were wrong yet the "you" carry on with their fingers in their ears going "LALALALALA I can't hear you"?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not my best analogy but you illustrate the problem of the wrong 'teacher'; pupils don't listen.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It would have been superfluous if you had actually said there was no value in a we-told-you-so attitude ... but you didn't. What you actually said was, "anyone wishing to preserve the Union might consider it unwise to belittle their choice of representation for the sake of a question best left (known but) unsaid".

There seems to me to be a very clear difference between "no value" and "unwise". Just to assuage any possible doubt, you also suggested it was "best left ... unsaid", hence my earlier post. There was far too much of this from the Yessers last year, either trying to stop no campaigners saying anything at all, or else making fanciful claims that anything said in support of "no" would inevitably increase support for "yes".

It was gash then, and it's gash now.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well I think my PoV is clear in the course of the fuller exchange. I hadn't expected each word to be dissected; you flatter me;).

I seem to be more diplomatic in my views as regards Scotland. Perhaps because I regard myself as British rather than Eng/Scot/Welsh/Irish.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

FWIW I didn't think you were aiming to issue dire threats towards "unionists" - but I think a lot of political debate in Scotland has become infected with the assumptions and the assertions of the Yes campaign, and I believe we need to be careful, in all our discussions, of which premises we're implicitly accepting.

A lot of the Yes campaign came straight out of the hard left playbook, and sought to make the No campaign untenable by making much of its argument effectively "unsayable". As we speak, for example, there are assorted trolls and idiots all over Facebook and the comment sections of various newspapers, trying to shut down any criticism of the SNP on precisely the same (erroneous) premise you based your comments on the other day, namely that you shouldn't criticise the SNP because so many Scottish people think they're great, that criticising them is basically un-Scottish.

It's essential always to look beyond the headlines. The SNP "government" in Edinburgh and its MPs in Westminster have legitimacy as a result of the democratic system that put them there. That is not at all the same thing as saying that most Scottish adults support them, nor is it the same thing as saying that most Scottish adults now want independence.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I seem to be a victim of circumstances of my own making.

My initial comment was made in passing with no intent or agenda and, if I'm honest, with very little thought. I have not discussed or read anything Facebook trolls might be saying about the Yes Campaign or the SNP (I don't use Facebook or Twitter) but I can understand how my comment might have appeared (coincidentally) associated with that line of criticism.

In truth, the issue is not one I feel any passion whatsoever about except to repeat that I prefer the Union; the intention was simply to enjoy chewing the fat with the regulars here on a subject that doesn't much motivate me, and on which I was quite happy to be shot down.

It just goes to show that without body language and face to face contact, communication is fraught with traps.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's the unspoken assumptions that lie behind passing comments that I find so interesting ... Sorry if I come across as beating up on you, it's not my intention. I like chewin' the fat too. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I know that's not your style Chris.

Besides, even I know a good beating up is what I sometimes deserve :)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The fishwife doesn't like the BBC, presumably because asking the dear leader questions and expecting answers is anti-Scottish.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-34070202

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well as we've seen at Westminster, they rather like asking questions but aren't quite so keen on answering them. Their economic projections were pure fantasy, their plan has backfired and they're being shown up for what they are.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Regardless of anything the Natz might say, BBC Scotland is already *extremely* accommodating to their demands. Plus, missus and I are acquainted with more than a couple of people who work at Pacific Quay, and I can tell you for a fact there are plenty of Yessers in positions of influence in there already.

This is less about strengthening BBC Scotland per se, than it is weakening its ties with the rest of the organisation, especially its top management and senior journalists in London. The stooshie over Nick Robinson came about because, up until that point, the BBC's coverage of the referendum had been supplied and managed almost entirely out of Pacific Quay, but as the day drew near, the likes of Bumbling Brian Taylor and the insipid Glenn Campbell (who allowed Salmond and the nats in his audience to walk all over him in the second TV debate with Alistair Darling) became sidelined in favour of strong, experienced, unflappable journos from outside the Holyrood bubble. In other words, people who didn't owe the Natz any favours, had no need to keep them sweet, and were free to tell it as it was.

It is difficult to understate just how much the nationalists hated having journalists on the story that they couldn't bully, influence or otherwise control. After they lost the vote, they even took to barring certain London-based newspapers from their press conferences.

The SNP is a nasty, spiteful, authoritarian hate-fest, and it thinks it can control BBC Scotland if BBC Scotland can be relieved of the inconvenient reporting lines that lead up to offices it can't control.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-34234024

Well anyone is surprised?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Splendid. Please could we do this as soon as feasible in the hope that this time it's a yes?

Then we can have a CF sweepstake on how many years it is before Scotland tries to rejoin the union as its finances are in dire straits.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Poor wee nippy is trying to walk a tightrope between those in the party that actually have the intelligence to realise that holding another referendum too soon (which they would lose, because the fundamentals haven't changed), would destroy any chance of them getting independence this century, and those who have joined the party in the last 12 months, aren't very clever, and who are demanding "indyref 2" as soon as possible.

If she's not careful, she'll split the party, or at least give some of the ultras the pretext to abandon the SNP and mount a credible challenge at the elections next year.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Frankly, I hope they do leave the UK. At least we won't have any more incompetent Labour governments to worry about!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Me too. They need to create a central bank too, since Bank of Scotland and Royal Bank of Scotland are both owned by NatWest and Lloyds respectively. Not to mention convert to the Euro, accept migrants...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Maybe they could be called the Provisional SNP...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Has the Scottish vote ever held the balance between Labour getting in or not, I don't think it has

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

1964 and February 1974.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Or to put it another way

http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-lab...need-scotland/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I do not want independence, the SNP are a " Do as your told bunch". We would have no say and be dictated too. We will always be stronger together and fight together for our rights. Much as I love Scotland we could never go it alone,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ah, the "Reverend" Stu. :nutter:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Thank you for sending this attachment, that does put a different perspective to it, which appears to have been misreported elsewhere.

In which case, I change my view, which is that as an English person, I don't care one way or the other if the Scots get independence.

However, as a human being, I would feel for future generations of Scots, who would be saddled with the debts and economic mess generally that would arise from any decision to become independent of the UK.

It seems to me that the SNP are an economically illiterate bunch who simply haven't paid attention to where the money will come from to fulfill their inflated expenditure plans. In addition to that, their policies would drive big business away, leaving the less well off even worse off. Unemployment would rocket and there would be precious little money to spend on welfare.

They just don't get it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't think one loonball smilie truly reflects him.

From lying about his name, being committed to the cause from his home in err England and thinking 9/11 was a great laugh he is the uber-cybernat.

Still he's conned persuaded the yes camp to fund him tithe tune of £100,000 for sitting in his pants churning out lies and misinformation from his bedroom.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:nutter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-34283944

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Seeing you've made a rip roaring *bleep* of every power you already have and people are finally noticing what makes you think another fairytale white paper will make people vote for separation next time.