Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

But it does seem to be an internal EU matter that's being debated, not one that affects us any more.

In fairness Seph, I'm sure there's a little bit of you that would have liked to remain in the EU if only to argue with the French more. ;)

Sure - if they didn't have a federalisation agenda.

tweetiepooh

11-01-2022 13:12

Re: Britain outside the EU

As a family we were sitting down to dinner and discussing this issue and came up with a brilliant situation that follows the vote in the referendum but also solves a lot of the issues with being outside the EU. We invite other nations to join us in Greater Britain, yes rather than us join them, they can join us. We can put limitations on centralising power so each nation can keep their own currency, maintain their borders/immigration. Laws can be adapted to suit situations. Pound Stirling could be used as a common tax free currency if desired. As a constitutional monarchy there is no federal nonsense. We could have national leaders gather as needed to work out areas of common interest. All this just seems so logical, so fair, so British. Sorts out the NI problem, no future problems with the Celtic nations wanting to split off and cause border issues there. We understand the smaller nations too. I'm sure the French would object but they always do, they can do what they always do and have another revolution. The Germans could be a problem but they are more similar to us than many others so that could be negotiated.

What do others think? Remainers can buy French cars and German cheese as before, can employ Eastern European nannies and visit their holiday homes in Poland. Leavers are still happy as we really have left and are standing up for us but welcoming others on our terms.

Sephiroth

11-01-2022 13:30

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36108859)

Hmmm. Not much of that around!

tweetiepooh

11-01-2022 15:12

Re: Britain outside the EU

Well you could get French cheese and German cars but who in their right mind would do it that way round?

Pierre

11-01-2022 15:46

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36108859)

It needs a catchy title like British Emp.......... oh no forget that.

Sephiroth

11-01-2022 16:10

Re: Britain outside the EU

I won’t buy anything French on principle. Pity about German cheese - Cornish or Rutland fill the gap.

ianch99

11-01-2022 16:42

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36108859)

I thought for a few seconds you were serious, nice work :)

Mad Max

11-01-2022 20:20

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36108887)

I thought for a few seconds you were serious, nice work :)

Me too, especially the bit about pound Stirling, is that the new Scottish currency? :D

papa smurf

11-01-2022 22:11

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36108947)

Me too, especially the bit about pound Stirling, is that the new Scottish currency? :D

That'll be the iou;)

ianch99

17-01-2022 11:47

Re: Britain outside the EU

The Con:

Brexit 'will enhance' UK wildlife laws - Gove

Quote:

Any Brexit changes to the UK's wildlife laws will increase - not reduce - environmental protection, Michael Gove has pledged.

The new Environment Secretary said he wanted to enhance current rules safeguarding Nature wherever possible.

The Reality:

The Government has again put bees at risk by permitting the use of the banned pesticide thiamethoxam on sugar beet in England in 2022.

Quote:

The Government has announced that it will permit the use of the banned pesticide thiamethoxam on sugar beet in England in 2022, because of the threat posed by a virus, transmitted by aphids(2).

The successful application, which was made by British Sugar, has for the second year in a row been granted for use by farmers, despite the government's own advisors recommending against its approval. The September 2021 minutes from the Expert Committee on Pesticides meeting said “The Committee agreed with HSE’s evaluation that the requirements for emergency authorisation have not been met” and “on the basis of the evidence presented to ECP, the Committee agreed that it is unable to support an emergency authorisation under Article 53 of Regulation 1107/2009”. The advisers also concluded that pesticide water pollution caused by this decision will harm river life.

Neonicotinoids (NNs) were banned for agricultural use in the UK and the EU in 2018 due to their devastating impact on bees. Even minute traces of these toxic chemicals in crop pollen or wildflowers play havoc with bees’ ability to forage and navigate, with catastrophic consequences for the survival of their colony. A recent study showed that even one exposure of a neonicotinoid insecticide had significant impacts on their ability to produce offspring in future years

Just a reminder,

SWEET! Brexit-supporting Tate & Lyle Sugars receives government support

Quote:

Former Brexit secretary, David Davis, worked for Tate & Lyle Sugars for almost two decades. Sugar cane importer Tate & Lyle Sugars, which was very vocal in supporting the campaign to Leave the European Union, is set to benefit from several government measures.

The government provided free carbon trading allowances, as well as a grant to cut the company’s refinery emissions at London Docklands, Private Eye has reported.

The firm actively supported the Leave campaign, aiming to remove domestic sugar beet protections. Senior Tate & Lyle Sugars vice-president Gerald Mason tried to influence European Union policies but, upon being told by the EU that the industry shifts are “democracy”, he said “that is not the sort of democracy he wanted to be part of”.

If only we could of known ...

Chris

17-01-2022 12:29

Re: Britain outside the EU

Not sure you’ve proved your case.

The initial pledge is with regards to the overall regulatory framework. The recent approval is for emergency use, not regulatory change. As we do not live in a technocracy it is correct for minsters to make a broad assessment of needs when making decisions. Advisers advise, they do not decide and they do not govern.

Further - a lot of single market regulation is actually pretty bare faced protectionism. Prior to our being in the EU we imported most of our sugar from the Caribbean. Domestic beet production was, and still is, modest in size. Tariffs on sugar import were mainly to benefit the major European producers who are, surprise surprise, Germany and France. These are empirical facts, and it’s bonkers to insinuate that David Davies’ motivation for supporting Brexit was to benefit his old employer. It’s quite plausible however that his prior industry experience has given him a particular view on the pros and cons of EU market protectionism.

Finally - with UK domestic beet producers no longer guaranteed tariff protection against cane imports in the long term, emergency pesticide measures to combat a viral infection would seem to be a good thing.

1andrew1

17-01-2022 12:45

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36109931)

Just looks like he's using emergency regulation to get round the commitment not to reduce environmental protection.

Certainly fails the man-on-the- Clapham-omnibus test even if it doesn't fail the test of keen Brexiters.

BenMcr

17-01-2022 12:49

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36109931)

Prior to our being in the EU we imported most of our sugar from the Caribbean.

That's for historical and colonial reasons though, rather than the most effective current market to source from.

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36109931)

Domestic beet production was, and still is, modest in size.

I thought that one of the arguments for Brexit was to help our domestic producers? All of the current post-Brexit activity seems more to about swapping one import market for another and still not developing our internal industries.

Chris

17-01-2022 13:09

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36109936)

That's for historical and colonial reasons though, rather than the most effective current market to source from.

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

I thought that one of the arguments for Brexit was to help our domestic producers? All of the current post-Brexit activity seems more to about swapping one import market for another and still not developing our internal industries.

Tate and Lyle is a domestic producer of refined sugar products. Their raw material is imported but then that’s not unusual for British manufacturers. Brexit has given us the freedom to decide whether British manufacturers should be able to source their raw materials on the world market or if they should be forced via tariffs to source domestically.

I’m not advocating a return to Empire preference, but if the product is available, well priced and useful to British manufacturers we must think very carefully about continuing with an EU tariff regime that was never designed to weigh up the pros and cons for the British economy.

BenMcr

17-01-2022 13:13

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36109946)

Tate and Lyle is a domestic producer of refined sugar products.

Depends what you mean by domestic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10472258

Quote:

Tate & Lyle has announced a deal to sell its sugar business to American Sugar Refining for £211m in cash.

And it seems that was due to competition - although I do appreciate there is no context around the tariffs at the time

Quote:

The company has struggled to break even in sugar-cane refining under stiff competition from sugar-beet producers.