Cable Forum - Coronavirus (OLD)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36038473)

Have to disagree - if there was a modifier "black lives matter more" or "only black lives matter", you would have a point - but there isn’t.

Saying "All Lives Matter" redirects the attention from black lives, who are the ones in peril - in the USA, black people are twice as likely to be killed by a police officer while unarmed, compared to a white individual - according to a 2015 study, African Americans died at the hands of police at a rate of 7.2 per million, while whites were killed at a rate of 2.9 per million. Saying "Black Lives Matter" isn't equivalent to saying other lives don't, but rather that Black lives should matter as much as others.

A friend of mine sent me this

If Black people commit more crime, get into more confrontations with police, resist arrest more often and in a more aggressive manner, then obviously they are going to be at more risk. Then again they are more likely to be killed by another Black person, especially gang related crime. Also probably more likely to shoot a police officer. Just because somebody is found to be unarmed, doesn't meant they couldn't have been armed, and didn't behave in a manner suggesting they might be(eg reaching towards their pocket). It only takes seconds to pull a hidden gun and shoot the police officer.

Quote:

The County and City of Los Angeles are the “gang capital” of the nation. There are more than 450 active gangs in the City of Los Angeles. Many of these gangs have been in existence for over 50 years. These gangs have a combined membership of over 45,000 individuals.
...
Gangs are not a new phenomenon. During the last three years, there were over 16,398 verified violent gang crimes in the City of Los Angeles. These include 491 homicides, nearly 7,047 felony assaults, approximately 5,518 robberies and just under 98 rapes.

Remember 2 of the officers were not White. If he hadn't resisted and needed to be restrained by multiple officers, then it's possible he would be now sitting at home facing no charges over the counterfeit money.

Quote:

He said: "Firstly, these are not just quarrels between kids. These are mass assassinations.
"It takes organisation to get a dozen teenagers to chase someone through a shopping centre and stab that particular individual, get the weapons there and so on.
"It is not going to be solved by more police officers. You'd have to have North Korean levels of police officers on the street to be where these things happen because they're organised.
"Secondly, we have to be honest about who is dying and where. There are two young people dying every week in our city. Almost all of them are black. Almost all of them are being killed by other black youngsters.
"And aside from the killing, there are thousands who are being stabbed and put in hospitals. There's a big thing now about stabbing people in the anus, so they have to wear colostomy bags and humiliating them."

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36038503)

So we've now sadly hit 40,000 deaths (the second only country to reach this figure) and Bozo declares himself 'very proud' of coronavirus response. He's starting to sound more like Trump.

The R number has reached 1 in the North-west and South West, so will there be another (regional) lock down?

It's inevitable until we put in place a serious, and competent test, trace and isolate system.

Face masks and quarantining those coming in from overseas are months too late but we got there. Maybe by 100,000 deaths we will start taking this seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36038509)

Whatever the shortcomings of our official response, they were absolutely right on one point. At the outset, the need to maintain public support for the lockdown was cited as a reason for not imposing it too soon. The behaviour of far too many complete fools over the last couple of weeks have borne out that official concern with how compliant the British public is likely to be in situations like this. In my own locality, the police, council and national park officials have had to deploy fairly extreme measures to control the crowds who flocked to the countryside outside Glasgow last weekend. Some of the scenes we have personally witnessed over the last week have been totally depressing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36038321)

R4 "You and Yours" featured this yesterday and already people have been scammed out of money and personal data.

Scammers spoof the telephone number to look like the track and trace number that the government publicised. Yawning security failure.

Thanks, it was very useful. This is the link if anybody else would like to listen to it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jmmq

'You & Yours hears from critics of the Government's new "Test and Trac"k system, who say it leaves the door open for scammers. The new scheme will see people who are at risk of contracting Coronavirus being contacted by phone or text. Critics say criminals are able to "spoof" phone and text numbers to look like the official one, and warnings put out by the government to the public do not go far enough.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36038509)

I'm taking up the mantle for something called TRUTH. Strange concept it appears and one that also appears not to be tolerated.

Labour MP Diane Abbott had to send her son to a private school to keep him away from bad influences.

Quote:

I knew what could happen to my son if he was sent to the wrong school and got in with the wrong crowd.
I realised they were subjected to peer *pressure and when that happens it’s very hard for a mother to save her son.
Once a black boy is lost to the world of gangs it’s very hard to get them back and I was genuinely very fearful of what could happen.

The quote about stabbings was from Trevor Phillips(yes that one).

You can't do simple population comparisons on anything, without actually looking at all the factors.

Nobody seems to be asking why he needed to be restrained and for that length of time. The length of time would have been dictated by HIS actions and the ability of the OTHER officers to get him under control. Would you like to have been potentially spat upon in the current situation or even before? A little old black lady wouldn't have needed to be restrained in such a manner, so race ISN'T a factor, being aggressive and having to be restrained IS, whatever the race. ANYBODY who has to be heavily restrained puts THEMSELVES at risk.

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36038514)

So why don't other countries suffer the same problems?:confused: How else are you meant to do it?:rolleyes:

I asked everyone to move on, so please do so.

This is a virus topic - any further off topic posts will be removed.

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36038513)

The counter argument being that an earlier lockdown would have saved thousands of lives and infections. If lockdowns inevitably fail because people get bored, or the state media gushes over VE Day street parties, then the thousands of lives lost prior are for nothing anyway if unable to develop a functioning track, trace, isolate system in that time.

The only reason to delay would be if you genuinely believed the infections caused before would yield significant immunity to slow later spread. None of the large scale antibody testing (anywhere in the world) indicate this being likely.

Quote:

The policy has been used in such countries as Hong Kong, Australia, Germany and Belgium - however, widespread contact tracing was initially abandoned in the UK when cases soared in March.

...
March 26: Deputy chief medical officer Dr Jenny Harries says contact tracing and widespread community testing is "not an appropriate mechanism as we go forward".

Contact tracing appears to have previously been in place in the UK, but obviously had little effect. Just as it seems to have had little effect in Italy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...box=1591381448

Quote:

Tory MP Bob Seely apologises for attending lockdown-breaking barbeque with journalists

A Conservative MP has apologised after attending a barbeque where at least four other people were present against lockdown rules.

Bob Seely, the Tory MP for the Isle of Wight, attended the event in his constituency at a time when the public was told they could meet just one other person in a public space, not a garden.

The gathering was hosted by Freddy Gray, the Spectator magazine’s deputy editor, in the village of Seaview on the island.

Also in attendance were his wife, as well as Richard Tice, the chairman of the Brexit Party, and his partner, the political journalist Isabel Oakeshott.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36038524)

You just have to look at examples of where people are questioned as to why they are at the beach or wherever. They simply trot out phrases that the media having been constantly giving them as excuses.:mad:
Contact tracing appears to have previously been in place in the UK, but obviously had little effect. Just as it seems to have had little effect in Italy.

Italy didn’t have contact tracing. We abandoned it because it was too hard/too expensive and we didn’t screen those coming into the country.

Nice to selectively quote Jenny Harries though, someone who if she told me the time I’d check my watch. Conflicting messaging on face masks, contact tracing, etc. I come back to the question I routinely ask how many people need to die before we accept that our scientists aren’t “world leading” in this field? Worth noting she said that as we went into lockdown - contact tracing less appropriate when you can only infect your own household.

This doesn’t detract from the fact it’s necessary going forward for this to work or we are back into lockdown with the emergency brake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36038526)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...box=1591381448

It's fine # BBQ'S matter,it's a valid excuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36038527)

Italy DID have contact tracing.
From article of March 12th.

Quote:

To add to the burden, hospitals in Italy depend on medical personnel to try to trace the contacts that people who test positive have had with others. One doctor in Bologna, who asked not to be named, said he had spent a 12-hour day tracing people who had been in contact with just one positive patient, to ensure those who next need testing are found.
“You can do that if the number of cases remains two to three,” the doctor said. “But if they grow, something has to give. The system will implode if we continue to test everyone actively and then have to do all this.”

I WASN'T being selective. It's just happens to be in the SAME article as the other quote in the post. Same as this one in the SAME article.

Quote:

March 12: Contact tracing and widespread community testing is abandoned as the Government moves into the "delay" stage of its coronavirus plan, with England's chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty saying it is "no longer necessary for us to identify every case."

Any tracing, lockdown, etc will never work in the UK, as there are a huge number of idiots ignoring it all.

Even in South Korea, tracing is having it's problems, as I've previously highlighted.:rolleyes:

Quote:

More than 100 cases have been linked to nightlife venues in the South Korean capital, and on Saturday, Seoul ordered all clubs and bars to temporarily close.
The cluster has caused alarm in South Korea, which was among the first countries outside of China to deal with a large-scale coronavirus outbreak. In recent weeks, however, authorities had begun loosening restrictions as case numbers fell.
...
Although all three venues linked to the cluster asked for customers' full names and phone numbers on arrival, the city has been unable to contact almost 2,000 club-goers -- meaning they either avoided the calls or gave a false number, Seoul's mayor Park Won-soon said Monday.
The city has had to employ other measures to track them. Using phone signal tower records, the city found that 10,905 people were in the vicinity of the clubs in the nightlife suburb of Itaewon between April 24 and May 6. Authorities have texted them all, saying they should get tested. Officials have also used credit cards to track almost 500 people, who have been asked to get tested and self-quarantine.

Quote:

The authorities, with the backing of of 8,600 police officers, are also trying identify people from CCTV footage in the clubs.
...
About 35,000 people have been tested in relation to the club cluster. The number of new daily cases nationally reached 29 on Thursday, 20 of which were tied to Itaewon. Infections had been under 20 for the previous three weeks.

Now extrapolate that to all the major towns and cities in the UK. Never, ever going to work. Even if the extreme measures the authorities in South Korea are allowed to take, were allowed to be used in the UK.

The future(15th June) legal requirement for face masks or coverings on public transport is going to be fun to watch. Hardly anyone follows that at the moment.

Nomadking you are being selective, as ever. Italian hospitals were trying to contact trace - that isn’t the same as a national contact tracing system, driven by apps, digital data, AND who individuals can confirm they have been in contact with. The two aren’t comparable.

Your persistence in holding up South Korea’s problems as comparable with ours are laughable. Their problems are not having 100% success. Our problems are trying to have any meaningful success at all.

What do you mean “were allowed to be used in the UK” - we’ve left the EU and taken back control. We have a Parliament that legislates for what is permissible in this country.

You’ve finally quoted something relevant - South Korea ploughing thousands of tests at identifying cases and throwing resource at it. We, on the other hand as you appropriately quote for once, have Whitty who doesn’t see the value in trying to find every case. In a pandemic. Sums it up and we will continue to fail until the Government wake up to that.

Like herd immunity week though I expect the usual suspects in the thread to perform a sudden volte face when Government policy finally changes.

For those interested in economic growth there are forecasts that South Korea could still grow 0.1% this year - demonstrating the value in a working response to Coronavirus.

Can anymore things go wrong?

Not only could I about to be made redundant, but my sister is showing COVID-19 symptons and has had a test. so now we play the waiting game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36038540)

Can anymore things go wrong?

Not only could I about to be made redundant, but my sister is showing COVID-19 symptons and has had a test. so now we play the waiting game.

You're not having much luck, especially with your mum. I really hope that things start to improve for you and your family.