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-   -   Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33712196)

Sephiroth 12-04-2026 21:31
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jem (Post 36213850)
A ‘proportionate response’ actually can’t be defined, it’s more of a ‘what do most people think is acceptable’.

<SNIP>

In the days following the attack Israel had the sympathy of most of the World, but they have managed to burn that all away. To the point where now Israel is seen as the aggressor, in the wrong, needs to be stopped.....

How, just how have Israel managed to switch from being the victim to the aggressor. Is it Netanyahu’s desperation to avoid legal action for a while?
You make your point well. You haven't offered an idealistic, impossible "solution" which only those viewing from the outside could concoct (e.g. what Grim said).

1andrew1 12-04-2026 21:53
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36213817)
So we can take it you feel nearly 60 Gazan's for 1 Israel is a proportionate response and that you value the lives of certain people so little compared to the Israelis.
That seems to be Seph's calculation.

So, if we assume that of the 2,055 people killed in Lebanon this year by Israel, 55 are terrorists and 2,000 are collateral damage, then a proportionate response by Lebanon would be to take out 60 x 2,000 = 120,000 people. But if it carries on like this, then everyone will be wiped out!

The reality is that we don't live in Old Testament times. It's not about revenging deaths, it's about ensuring Israel's future safety. This involves acting clever as Mossad has traditionally done and not acting like a bull in a china shop as Netanyahu favours.

One key factor in the equation is of course Iran. Helping facilitate the protestors in Iran through subtle means to bring about regime change would be hugely beneficial to reducing attacks on Israel. Another factor is the actions of the West Bank Israeli zealots who are being given free reign to violently take over Palestinian territory. Stopping this happening is a good start.

Sephiroth 12-04-2026 22:09
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
So, what would be acceptable or proportionate?

1andrew1 12-04-2026 22:19
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Lurking behind all of this are Netanyahu's corruption hearings.

Quote:
Netanyahu’s corruption trial hearings ‘cancelled’

The Times of Israel is reporting that three hearings in Binyamin Netanyahu’s corruption trial have been cancelled following a request from the Israeli prime minister’s legal team.

The hearings were scheduled to go ahead this week. They are the latest hearings to be cancelled in the long-running trial.

The Jerusalem District Court has asked for an update from Netanyahu’s lawyers regarding future possible hearings.
https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-tod...rump-93l533737

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36213856)
So, what would be acceptable or proportionate?
I'm with Jem and Grim on this - find the perpetrators and bring them to justice. Act intelligently and understand that killing innocent citizens of other countries just acts as a recruiting sergeant for terrorists.

Hugh 12-04-2026 23:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
1 Attachment(s)
Elon’s taking it well…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1776037067

1andrew1 13-04-2026 07:55
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36213862)
I wonder if J D Vance might be free to pop over and endorse Trump's mate here? ;)

Sephiroth 13-04-2026 09:24
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36213857)
<SNIP>

I'm with Jem and Grim on this - find the perpetrators and bring them to justice. Act intelligently and understand that killing innocent citizens of other countries just acts as a recruiting sergeant for terrorists.
Ideally, yes. But how to do it? Impossible.

Carth 13-04-2026 09:56
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Difficult finding the right ones when most fit the same profile :~

Loose baggy clothing, wild eyes, long straggly hair, beard, kalashnikov :erm:

1andrew1 13-04-2026 12:01
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36213870)
Ideally, yes. But how to do it? Impossible.
Nothing's impossible given time and money.

No point in reacting with bombing instead just because it's easier - it doesn't resolve the situation and makes it worse in the longer term.

Paul 13-04-2026 19:27
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36213882)
it doesn't resolve the situation and makes it worse in the longer term.
It resolves his situation, keeping him in power.

1andrew1 13-04-2026 19:34
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36213908)
It resolves his situation, keeping him in power.
Yes, that is very true.

jem 13-04-2026 20:20
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36213910)
Yes, that is very true.
For now - next elections are in October.

Now let’s see Israel seem to have been completely sidelined by the US, they weren’t even invited to the ‘peace talks’ in Pakistan; the current Iranian regime still appears to be in power, there have been no uprising, if anything they seem even more militant. The campaign against Hezbollah in Lebanon will probably require a ground invasion, which historically has never worked out well for either side, and imagine that the US and Iran work out some kind of deal? Trump is desperate to get out of this mess with at least a claim of ‘victory’. The US will demand that Israel ceases all military operations as part of the deal, which they have no option but to agree or lose US support - the implication is that Israel is no longer in control of it’s own destiny, militarily. The Israeli electorate may take note of that.

Right now, it’s not looking too good for him......

1andrew1 14-04-2026 15:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Analysis: Israel-Lebanon talks a genuine achievement by Trump's team

There is a "rare buzz" in the US State Department in Washington ahead of talks between Israel and Lebanon, which are expected to get under way in a matter of minutes.

That's according to our US correspondent Mark Stone reports.

Israel's ambassador to the US, Yechiel Leiter, and his Lebanese counterpart, Nada Hamadeh Moawad, will hold discussions alongside US secretary of state Marco Rubio later (see 13:32 post).

"Today is a genuine achievement of the Trump administration," Stone said.

"It is a demonstration of the power of President Trump, because I think it's fair to say that Netanyahu would not have agreed to send his ambassador here to sit around a table with the Lebanese ambassador had Trump not told him to.

"So, in that sense, this is important."

While a major breakthrough is unlikely, it marks the beginning of talks that must be viewed as "hugely symbolic", Stone said.
https://news.sky.com/story/iran-war-...rvice-13509565

Carth 14-04-2026 15:46
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Maybe Netanyahu has sent his ambassador to tell Trumps ambassador what a complete dork Trump is . . and for him to stay off Twitter or 'X' or whatever other social media platforms where he acts like a 5 year old :D

Carth 18-04-2026 13:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The Straits are open . . . closed . . open . . closed . . .

Oil prices are up . . . down . . up . . down . . up

Stocks & Shares are up . . down . . up . . . down

The only constant is the stupidity of Humpty Trumpty

Dingbat 18-04-2026 15:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36214088)
The only constant is the stupidity of Humpty Trumpty
And the profits being made by market manipulators.

Hugh 18-04-2026 15:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36214088)
The Straits are open . . . closed . . open . . closed . . .

Oil prices are up . . . down . . up . . down . . up

Stocks & Shares are up . . down . . up . . . down

The only constant is the stupidity of Humpty Trumpty
Schrödinger’s Straits…

Hugh 19-04-2026 07:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
h/r @danielsohage

Quote:
For those keeping track at home.

The Iranians have now blockaded the Strait of Hormuz in response to the US blockading it because the Iranians had blockaded it, in response to the US attacking Iran to ensure that the Strait which was fully open at the time wasn't blockaded
And this was after they attacked Iran to destroy the facilities they obliterated last year when they attacked Iran.

Carth 19-04-2026 08:51
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
If somebody had the nerve (and money) to do it, this could be one of the funniest war films ever made.

There must be shed loads of jokes, wisecracks, quips, one liners and ego busting situations to make a great blockbuster

papa smurf 19-04-2026 09:42
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The usa opens the straight of hormuz with billions of dollars worth of military hardware and the Iranians close it with a speed boat and a gun :rofl:

Carth 19-04-2026 11:44
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36214128)
The usa opens the straight of hormuz with billions of dollars worth of military hardware and the Iranians close it with a speed boat and a gun :rofl:
Brilliant Papa :tu: :rofl:

1andrew1 21-04-2026 18:30
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Ceasefire ends tomorrow
Quote:
We're loaded up': Trump warns US military 'raring to go' after restocking during ceasefire

More to bring you from Donald Trump now, who has told CNBC the US military has used the ceasefire with Iran to restock on equipment.

"We're loaded up," he said.

Asked about the possibility of extending the ceasefire, Trump said: "I don't want to do that. We don't have that much time... I expect to be bombing because I think that's a ​better attitude to go in with."

He added: "We have so much ammo, so much of everything... we've used this to restock and they probably have done a little bit of restocking.

"We're ready to go. The military is raring to go."
https://news.sky.com/story/iran-war-...banon-13509565

Carth 21-04-2026 19:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Trump . . promotes more fights than Frank Warren :D

1andrew1 21-04-2026 20:01
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36214263)
Trump . . promotes more fights than Frank Warren :D
Lol. :D

He does come across as a bit of a failed boxing promoter! If he ever gave that job a go, I'm sure he'd be beaten up after the first fight for talking up a no-hoper! The bookies would probably love him though!

Paul 21-04-2026 20:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
I expect to be bombing because I think that's a ​better attitude to go in with.
What an a-hole.

peanut 21-04-2026 20:39
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
It's that time again, it's........TACO Tuesday...

Trump says he will extend Iran ceasefire. Again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx297218m9vt

jem 21-04-2026 21:48
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36214274)
It's that time again, it's........TACO Tuesday...

Trump says he will extend Iran ceasefire. Again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx297218m9vt
You know it’s almost as if he doesn’t actually have any coherant plan and is just making it up as he goes along.

Surely not?

Chris 22-04-2026 06:28
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Nonono, he’s playing 55 dimensional chess, you’ll see :spin:

Hugh 22-04-2026 07:49
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1776844105

Hugh 22-04-2026 18:21
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Oh…

https://wapo.st/4eIeBgm

Quote:
Clearing Strait of Hormuz of mines could take 6 months, Pentagon tells Congress

The Pentagon assessment, shared in a classified briefing for lawmakers, suggests gasoline and oil prices could remain elevated through the midterm elections.

It could take six months to fully clear the Strait of Hormuz of mines deployed by the Iranian military, and any such operation is unlikely to be carried out until the U.S. war with Iran ends, the Pentagon has informed Congress — an assessment that means the conflict’s economic impact could extend late into this year or beyond.

A senior Defense Department official shared the estimate, which has not been previously reported, during a classified briefing Tuesday for members of the House Armed Services Committee, said three officials familiar with the discussion. The timeline — met with frustration by Democrats and Republicans alike, two of these people said — is perhaps the clearest sign that gasoline and oil prices could remain elevated long after any peace deal is reached…

… Richard Nephew, an expert on Iranian diplomacy and senior researcher at Columbia University, said the six-month time frame to clear the strait of mines is likely to jolt oil and gas markets given the concern insurers, shipowners and captains will have about moving through a mined sea lane.

“You’re not going to have many people wanting to run that risk,” he said. The presence of mines might not cause a “total interruption,” Nephew said, but the consequences of a two-track strait being partially unusable could be significant.

Carth 22-04-2026 22:53
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
6 months to clear a minefield?

Come on, a large group of unruly teenagers in speedboats would have it done inside 3 weeks ;) :naughty:

Hugh 22-04-2026 23:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
That’s probably what Hegseth told Trump… ;)

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/20...rait-of-hormuz

Quote:
Iran’s stockpile is estimated by maritime analysts to number 2,000 to 6,000 mines, a significant portion of which are produced domestically. These weapons generally fall into three categories, based on how they interact with their targets:

Contact mines: These are traditional designs, such as the M-08, which date back to World War I. They are moored to the seabed and detonate upon physical contact with a ship’s hull.

Bottom (influence) mines: Models like the Maham-2 rest on the seafloor and are triggered by the acoustic, magnetic or pressure signatures of passing vessels, making them significantly harder to detect than moored varieties – and more dangerous than contact mines because the ship doesn’t even need to touch the mine to trigger an explosion.

‘Smart’ and rocket mines: More advanced systems, including reportedly imported Chinese EM-52 rocket mines, remain moored on the seabed at depths of up to 200 metres (656ft). When they detect a ship sailing overhead, they release a rocket that strikes the vessel’s underside.
Quote:
How easy is it to clear sea mines?
The process of clearing mines – known as mine countermeasures (MCM) – is slow, methodical and high risk. It involves “mine hunting”, using high-resolution sonar to find individual mines, and “minesweeping”, using mechanical or magnetic systems to trigger them.

However, the US Navy is facing what experts call a “mine gap”. The FPRI’s analysis detailed how institutional neglect had led to the retirement of dedicated MCM assets just months before this war. The Navy decommissioned its last four Avenger-class MCM ships in Bahrain in September. Additionally, the MH-53E Sea Dragon helicopters, long the backbone of airborne minesweeping, were phased out in August, it reported.

The current US strategy relies on small combat ships built for coastal operations and fitted with MCM mission modules. However, only one of these vessels, the USS Canberra, is currently available in the region.

“MCM units tend to be good at one single job and lousy at anything but minimal point defence,” Hudisteanu told Al Jazeera. He explained that while conducting clearance, these vessels are “virtually sitting ducks” for coastal missiles or fast attack craft, requiring a massive protective screen of destroyers and aircraft to operate.
tl:dr - Good luck with that…

Anyhoo, the USA are currently in the three to five day pause on the fourteen day extension of the initial two day hard deadline for the ceasefire, having destroyed the Iranian Navy and all their missiles, for a Strait they don’t need…

Hugh 28-04-2026 08:37
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
BP profits more than double as Iran war sends oil prices higher

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2eveyvgn9no

Quote:
In its first results since the conflict broke out, the energy giant reported profits of $3.2bn (£2.4bn) between January and March after an "exceptional" performance in its oil trading business.

The figure was far higher than analysts had expected and more than double the $1.38bn it reported in the same period last year.
Quote:
Profits at the company's customers and products division, which includes its oil trading unit, surged to $2.5bn compared with just $103m a year ago.

However, BP said its upstream production - which refers to the search and extraction of oil and gas - had been flat in the quarter.

---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 ----------

Russian superyacht sails through Strait of Hormuz despite blockade

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2pn8zdxdjo

Quote:
A superyacht linked to one of Russian President Vladimir Putin's key allies has sailed through the Strait of Hormuz, despite the ongoing blockade of the critical shipping channel.

The 142m-long (465 feet) Nord luxury boat, linked to sanctioned Russian billionaire Alexey Mordashov, travelled from Dubai to Muscat, Oman over the weekend, one of a few private vessels to transit through the strait in recent months.

1andrew1 28-04-2026 08:54
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36214572)
Russian superyacht sails through Strait of Hormuz despite blockade

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2pn8zdxdjo
Not surprised that Trump let one of Putin's mates through. I'm not very clear on what the US is blockading - is it just boats going to and from Iran?
Quote:
A superyacht linked to one of Russian President Vladimir Putin's key allies has sailed through the Strait of Hormuz, despite the ongoing blockade of the critical shipping channel.

thenry 29-04-2026 16:16
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Terrorist incident declared after two Jewish men stabbed in north London

https://news.sky.com/story/follow-la...-says-13527284
:rolleyes: :no:

Sephiroth 29-04-2026 17:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The enemy is here - and still arriving.

mrmistoffelees 03-05-2026 11:09
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214639)
The enemy is here - and still arriving.
For those of us catching up, whom exactly is the enemy ?

Sephiroth 03-05-2026 11:44
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36214819)
For those of us catching up, whom exactly is the enemy ?
As if you didn’t know: Undocumented boat people. Some feared to be Iranian IRGC plants. Been going on for years.

Why do you ask?

mrmistoffelees 03-05-2026 12:11
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214821)
As if you didn’t know: Undocumented boat people. Some feared to be Iranian IRGC plants. Been going on for years.

Why do you ask?
The same reason as everyone asks questions. Seeking clarification and avoiding confusion.

Dude111 03-05-2026 12:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees
For those of us catching up, whom exactly is the enemy ?
The US!!

The US is a threat to the whole world!!

Hugh 03-05-2026 12:27
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 36214825)
The US!!

The US is a threat to the whole world!!
I would have to disagree…

I believe the current US Administration is a threat to the World, but also to the USA itself (but that’s another thread).

Sephiroth 03-05-2026 14:35
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36214824)
The same reason as everyone asks questions. Seeking clarification and avoiding confusion.
Fair enough - possibly. But it seems to me that everyone else, or at least everyone of a reasonable disposition, didn't need to ask that question.

To add some colour, though:

1/
Israel was murderously attacked on 7-Oct-23. 1200+ brutally murdered and hundreds of innocent people abducted by Hamas terrorists to Gaza.

2/
Israel then attacked Hamas targets, with significant collateral civilian damage as the assault progressed. Hamas used the civilian population as shields, for example tunnel entrances in schools or hospitals.

3/
As this dragged on, the destruction as shown on TV attracted criticism from all quarters through application of the vague term "proportionate".

So - what is proportionate to what Hamas did? What is "proportionate" about not wiping Hamas out - who are ideologically and suicidally obsessed with murdering Israelis and Jews?

4/
That brings us to the UK. It is well known that antisemites more-or-less equate Israelis with all Jews; the "who would you cheer at a football match" syndrome.

5/
As soon as 09-Oct-23, the Jew haters were out on London's streets with their infamous banners wishing genocide on Israeli Jews. Anti-Jewish hate incident took place immediately, including physical violence on Jews.

6/
With the most recent incidents appearing to become common, it is very clear that Jew haters are coming out of the woodwork and equally clear that the government doesn't know how to deal with it (given the Muslim vote in Labour constituencies).

7/
So, there you have it. Jews are being murdered by people of alien ideology. Nobody is murdering Muslims in the UK. The government is "appalled", "there is no place for antisemitism in the UK", "our thoughts and prayers ..."; all weasel words.

What is worse, the impressionable teenagers find it easy to criticise Israel to the extent of distaste for British Jews

Oh yes - the enemy is already here in critical mass, and still coming.

How much of what I've said above is drivel @TheDaddy?

Hugh 03-05-2026 15:30
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Fair enough - possibly. But it seems to me that everyone else, or at least everyone of a reasonable disposition, didn't need to ask that question
[img]Download_Failed_Error_2[/img]


You appear to be implying that because Mr M asked that question, he is not of a reasonable disposition...


https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2026/05/1.jpg

Sephiroth 03-05-2026 15:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36214839)
[img]Download_Failed_Error_2[/img]


You appear to be implying that because Mr M asked that question, he is not of a reasonable disposition...

<SNIP>
Trust you to twist things round to stir the pot


---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

Oh - and it is not reasonable to accuse me of always posting "drivel".

Hugh 03-05-2026 16:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214840)
Trust you to twist things round to stir the pot


---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

Oh - and it is not reasonable to accuse me of always posting "drivel".
How - you said that people of a reasonable disposition didn’t need to ask that question.

The obvious corollary of that is that by asking the question, the questioner isn’t of a reasonable disposition.

If that’s not what you meant, what did you mean?

Sephiroth 03-05-2026 17:42
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36214844)
How - you said that people of a reasonable disposition didn’t need to ask that question.

The obvious corollary of that is that by asking the question, the questioner isn’t of a reasonable disposition.

If that’s not what you meant, what did you mean?
What I meant is what I said - leaving others, including you, to make of that what they will.

Why would you want to draw me out on this?

Hugh 03-05-2026 18:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Because of your consistent equivocation on the subject - if what you say what you said is what you meant, so as previously stated, the corollary of that is obviously what you meant as well…

Sephiroth 03-05-2026 18:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36214864)
Because of your consistent equivocation on the subject - if what you say what you said is what you meant, so as previously stated, the corollary of that is obviously what you meant as well…
The corollary doesn't add to the substance of the topic.

My point in the debate is around the central issue of antisemitism, not the corollary you so pedantically wish to pursue.

It's no coincidence that the title of this thread includes three entities committed to destruction of Israel and its Jews.

It is a tragedy that their proxies, plus seasoned antisemites, plus gullible youth should take to the streets in such numbers that they intimidate our Jewish population. There are c. 300,00 Jews in the UK and 4 million Muslims. In the earlier days the pro-Palestine/Hamas demonstrators outnumbered the entire UK Jewish population.

Antisemitism in the UK is out of control and all @The Daddy can do is to blame Israel for what's happening here. Sure, that's what the pro-Palestinians are using to justify their demonstrations. But the murder of several Jews at the hands of Muslims and other terrorist acts is the true indicator of what's going on.

Obviously, more drivel from me.


Paul 03-05-2026 20:25
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214867)

Obviously, more drivel from me.
Something we all can agree on. ;)

45rpm 04-05-2026 00:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214837)
Fair enough - possibly. But it seems to me that everyone else, or at least everyone of a reasonable disposition, didn't need to ask that question.

To add some colour, though:

1/
Israel was murderously attacked on 7-Oct-23. 1200+ brutally murdered and hundreds of innocent people abducted by Hamas terrorists to Gaza.

2/
Israel then attacked Hamas targets, with significant collateral civilian damage as the assault progressed. Hamas used the civilian population as shields, for example tunnel entrances in schools or hospitals.

3/
As this dragged on, the destruction as shown on TV attracted criticism from all quarters through application of the vague term "proportionate".

So - what is proportionate to what Hamas did? What is "proportionate" about not wiping Hamas out - who are ideologically and suicidally obsessed with murdering Israelis and Jews?

4/
That brings us to the UK. It is well known that antisemites more-or-less equate Israelis with all Jews; the "who would you cheer at a football match" syndrome.

5/
As soon as 09-Oct-23, the Jew haters were out on London's streets with their infamous banners wishing genocide on Israeli Jews. Anti-Jewish hate incident took place immediately, including physical violence on Jews.

6/
With the most recent incidents appearing to become common, it is very clear that Jew haters are coming out of the woodwork and equally clear that the government doesn't know how to deal with it (given the Muslim vote in Labour constituencies).

7/
So, there you have it. Jews are being murdered by people of alien ideology. Nobody is murdering Muslims in the UK. The government is "appalled", "there is no place for antisemitism in the UK", "our thoughts and prayers ..."; all weasel words.

What is worse, the impressionable teenagers find it easy to criticise Israel to the extent of distaste for British Jews

Oh yes - the enemy is already here in critical mass, and still coming.

How much of what I've said above is drivel @TheDaddy?


I agree with all of the above. However what you forgot to say was: Israel left Gaza some 20 years back; this was like a reverse ethnic cleansing. Yes 100% of Israelis left the Strip.

The Gazans had a golden opportunity to develop farms, factories, etc. Instead they chose to become world leaders in rocket technology and tunnel building. Even worse, they decided to store their arms caches under schools and hospitals.

Bizarrely the anti-Zionists accuse Israel of being an "apartheid state" and a "terrorist state". Surely that description fits Gaza exactly.

1andrew1 04-05-2026 06:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45rpm (Post 36214877)

I agree with all of the above. However what you forgot to say was: Israel left Gaza some 20 years back; this was like a reverse ethnic cleansing. Yes 100% of Israelis left the Strip.

The Gazans had a golden opportunity to develop farms, factories, etc. Instead they chose to become world leaders in rocket technology and tunnel building. Even worse, they decided to store their arms caches under schools and hospitals.

Bizarrely the anti-Zionists accuse Israel of being an "apartheid state" and a "terrorist state". Surely that description fits Gaza exactly.
With sanctions on Gaza, Israel has intentionally prevented it developing. Israelis may have left Gaza but they're now illegally land-grabbing in the West Bank instead.

Sephiroth 04-05-2026 08:47
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36214881)
With sanctions on Gaza, Israel has intentionally prevented it developing. Israelis may have left Gaza but they're now illegally land-grabbing in the West Bank instead.
Really? Surely "sanctions on Gaza" by Israel are a counter-terrorism measure.

And yes - it doesn't help that Israel is "illegally land-grabbing in the West Bank".

But, and here is more drivel, obviously, it doesn't justify the antisemitism taking place in the UK by Islamist provocateurs.

Hugh 04-05-2026 09:01
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214886)
Really? Surely "sanctions on Gaza" by Israel are a counter-terrorism measure.

And yes - it doesn't help that Israel is "illegally land-grabbing in the West Bank".

But, and here is more drivel, obviously, it doesn't justify the antisemitism taking place in the UK by Islamist provocateurs.
Totally agree - Jewish people (anywhere in the World) should not be held responsible for the actions of the Israeli Government.

It is wrong when provocateurs blame an entire community for the actions of a few.

Sephiroth 04-05-2026 09:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ld-of-britain/

Here is the nub of the matter - selected quote follows:

Quote:
How anti-Semitism was allowed to take hold of Britain

David Feldman, a historian of anti-Semitism and director of the Birkbeck Institute for the Study of Anti-Semitism, believes it’s wrong to suggest that Jew hate is a uniquely Muslim problem. In his research, he draws a distinction between dyed-in-the-wool anti-Semites, who have an animus against Jews, and those – as many as one in three of the population – who sometimes slip into anti-Semitic ways of thinking, drawing on what he describes as a “reservoir” of anti-Semitism.

“There was a really important survey in 2017 conducted by the CST and by Jewish Policy Research that found that the percentage of people surveyed who are hard-core anti-Semites is relatively small [just 2 per cent],” Feldman says. “But the people who would respond affirmatively to just one of the anti-Semitic myths or stereotypes that were offered to them rose to as high as 30 per cent.”

Ideas in the “anti-Semitic reservoir” that many people dip into, without even realising, include the notion that Jews are more money-orientated than other people, and that they hold too much power in the media.

When Jews or Israel are “salient”, he says – such as when the Israel-Palestine conflict is in the headlines – many people often draw on the anti-Semitic “reservoir” to offer explanations. He is not optimistic about the prospect of eliminating that instinct. “I absolutely understand why a politician might want to say that they want to stamp anti-Semitism out, but given it’s been around for 1,000 years, that’s not really a realistic goal,” he says. “I do think, however, that education can make some progress.” He also believes that work between communities to improve relations can increase goodwill.
In other words, Israel does questionable or bad things or even defends itself, then the Jews in the UK get it.

And here is the real eye-opener (a quote from Braverman):

Quote:
“Jews are leaving the country because they feel safer in Israel – and it’s a war zone. It’s not just about the Jewish communities, it’s about British values. Jews are an integrated part of Britain, and they are under siege right now.”

TheDaddy 04-05-2026 15:28
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214837)
[mass, and still coming.

How much of what I've said above is drivel @TheDaddy?
I'd say the word being used was disproportionate, not proportionate, you know in regards to ambulances being attacked and then trying to cover the attack up, targeting aid workers, targeting journalists, torturing prisoners and repeatedly attempting and finally succeeding in murdering three hostages who took it upon themselves to try and secure release, all that sounds really reasonable and proportionate, Gaza was just lucky they were attacked by the most moral army in the world

Hugh 04-05-2026 18:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
1 Attachment(s)
Trump’s "ceasefire" is going well…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1777917722

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crl4gxgkkylo

1andrew1 04-05-2026 18:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36214886)
Really? Surely "sanctions on Gaza" by Israel are a counter-terrorism measure.

And yes - it doesn't help that Israel is "illegally land-grabbing in the West Bank".

But, and here is more drivel, obviously, it doesn't justify the antisemitism taking place in the UK by Islamist provocateurs.
The reason for the sanctions is a side issue of which there will be differing opinions.The point is that its has prevented Gaza from developing along the lines that 45rpm suggested it might have done and that not to develop was a matter of choice.

The point about Israel's seizing land in the West Bank was that 45rpm only showed one side of the story - Israelis leaving Gaza.

There's no justification for anti-Semitism. Period.

1andrew1 05-05-2026 11:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Not a big fan of hers, but good to see Reeves not folding to her fanatical US counterpart.

Quote:
Rachel Reeves clashed with Scott Bessent over Iran war criticism

Dispute between UK chancellor and US Treasury secretary underscores allies’ diverging stances on the conflict

US Treasury secretary Scott Bessent had a fierce row with UK chancellor Rachel Reeves in Washington last month over her outspoken criticism of the Iran war, according to people familiar with the matter.

The chancellor, who was in Washington for the spring meetings of the IMF, gave an interview to CNBC on April 15 claiming the goals of the Iran war had “never been clear”. Reeves expressed the view that she was “not convinced” that “we are safer today than we were a few weeks ago”, prompting furious criticism from Bessent.

When the pair met later that day Bessent berated Reeves over the remarks, according to people familiar with the situation. The Treasury secretary insisted the world was safer because of the US-Israeli war against Iran, even invoking the spectre of Tehran launching a nuclear attack on London.

Reeves responded angrily by telling Bessent she did not work for him and disliked how he had spoken to her.

She also reiterated her argument about the Iran conflict lacking clear goals and not necessarily making the world safer...

The UK’s decision to come out so strongly and publicly in favour of de-escalation has been driven in part by the economic damage the conflict is doing domestically.

In its World Economic Outlook issued that week, the IMF downgraded its forecasts for UK growth by more than any other G7 country, in part because of the heavy blow higher energy prices are expected to inflict on Britain.
https://www.ft.com/content/85f851c6-...syn-25a6b1a6=1

Hugh 05-05-2026 13:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Whatever Hegseth’s drinking, can I have some…

https://wapo.st/4thlzN9

Quote:
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the U.S. mission to protect commercial ships in the Strait of Hormuz would be temporary and other nations would soon have to take responsibility, emphasizing that the fragile ceasefire with Iran remained in place despite attacks on U.S. ships on Monday.

Hegseth said the U.S. had established a powerful “red, white and blue dome” over the strait as a “gift” to other nations to allow commercial ships to pass through. “Soon we will hand that responsibility back to you,” Hegseth said in a briefing Tuesday, alongside Gen. Dan Caine, Joint Chiefs chairman, regarding the U.S. efforts to help allies’ ships navigate the narrow strait.
a) you can’t hand something "back" to someone if they didn’t have it before
b) it was open before, so no one needed to take responsibility for it

Carth 05-05-2026 13:30
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Probably drinking from the same bottle as Trump . . without wiping it.

Speaking of Trump, he's now far too busy to be messing about with the problem he created with Iran, he's got another 3 assassination attempts to organise and his acceptance speech to write for winning 'footballer of the year' at the world cup :D

papa smurf 06-05-2026 07:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Ladies and Gentlemen it's TACO day

Trump announces 'Project Freedom' in Strait of Hormuz to be paused


Donald Trump says the US effort to guide stranded vessels out of the Strait of Hormuz is paused while America aims to finalise a deal with Iran. It comes after a cargo ship was reported to have been hit in the key waterway.

https://news.sky.com/story/iran-war-...banon-13509565


https://news.sky.com/video/trump-pau...ormuz-13540571

Hugh 06-05-2026 08:06
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
So, Operation Epic Fury is concluded, Operation Freedom is on pause, does that leave us with Operation No One Can Find Their Aerse With A Map, Mirror, And Detailed Directions?

And why is this happening?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/h...ng-of-iran-war

Quote:
In divisions of the State Department that typically would handle the Iran response, numerous veteran diplomats with decades of collective experience were fired, retired or were reassigned — replaced by more junior officials or political appointees. The administration cut more than 80 staffers in Near Eastern Affairs, according to numbers compiled by a State Department employee who was terminated last year based on surveys of colleagues.
Quote:
For instance, the administration appears to have been caught off guard by what would happen once the U.S. struck Iran — something Trump himself acknowledged this week when he expressed surprise that Tehran retaliated with strikes on American allies in the region. "Nobody expected that. We were shocked. They fought back," Trump told reporters this week.

Pigott said staffing reductions "are not having any negative impact on our ability to respond to this operation, our ability to plan, and our ability to execute in service to Americans." He added that the department "rejects the premise that key decisions were made without meaningful input from experienced professionals."

But Iranian retaliation on U.S. allies was predictable, according to former officials, as well as previous wargames and conflict models run by both the U.S. military and private organizations. The National Security Council, which Trump has pared, typically would have presented the president with analysis from experts within the bureaucracy.

Instead, decisions are made by a small group of officials close to the president without the planning or coordination of the larger machinery of government, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who also serves as the president's national security adviser.
How to be "smartest person in the room"? Fire the really smart, experienced people who know what they’re talking about…

Hugh 10-05-2026 21:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
https://wapo.st/4wl2BI3

Something, something, "holding all the cards", something, something. "so much winning"…

Quote:
President Donald Trump on Sunday called Iran’s response to the latest U.S. proposal to end the war “totally unacceptable.”

Trump’s comments came hours after Tehran said, according to state media, that it sent a response to the peace plan through Pakistani mediators — after an exchange of hostilities around the Strait of Hormuz in recent days highlighted the fragility of a ceasefire the two sides reached more than a month ago.

“I have just read the response from Iran’s so-called ‘Representatives.’ I don’t like it — TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! Thank you for your attention to this matter,” Trump said in a post on Truth Social, without providing details.
Also from that article

Quote:
Asked about the Strait of Hormuz’s continued closure, Mike Waltz said: “That’s why we’re pushing now another U.N. resolution that says Iran cannot do this. No country can do what Iran is doing in international waterways.”
Meanwhile, in international waterways in the Caribbean and the Pacific…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...astern-pacific

Quote:
The US military on Friday said it struck a vessel in the eastern Pacific, killing two people and leaving one survivor in the latest attack on boats suspected of transporting narcotics. This brings the death toll from strikes on such vessels in the Caribbean and Pacific to more than 190 people since September...

… The military has attacked multiple alleged drug-running boats in the eastern Pacific in recent weeks, including a strike on Tuesday that killed three people. According to a tally by the Intercept, there have now been 58 such boat strikes since September amounting to a death toll of 193 people with four survivors.

The legality of these boat strikes is under scrutiny, with legal experts saying the attacks amount to unlawful extrajudicial killings by the Pentagon with a complete lack of accountability. Human rights groups, including Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, have condemned the strikes.

The Pentagon has framed its operations in the region as a campaign against “narco-terrorism”, but has provided scant evidence of coordinated drug-smuggling rings.

papa smurf 19-05-2026 06:06
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
once again it's TACO time


President Trump says he's called off a 'very big' attack on Iran
Donald Trump says he's postponed 'very big' attack on Iran as mediators believe a deal to end the conflict is close.

blah blah bigly attack blah bigliest ever seen blah blah......

https://news.sky.com/video/president...-iran-13545720

Hugh 19-05-2026 08:27
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
But, but, but…

If, as Trump (frequently) states, the US military have completely destroyed the Iranian’s military capabilities, and annihilated their nuclear reprocessing facilities, what is there to bomb?

papa smurf 19-05-2026 08:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36215752)
But, but, but…

If, as Trump (frequently) states, the US military have completely destroyed the Iranian’s military capabilities, and annihilated their nuclear reprocessing facilities, what is there to bomb?
children,that seems to be popular :(

1andrew1 19-05-2026 15:28
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36215753)
children,that seems to be popular :(
Sadly true, when it comes to US bombings, it does seem to be women and children first.
Quote:
Right at the start of America's war with Iran, something went very, very wrong.

We can say that with even more clarity as the first news team from outside Iran to reach where it happened....

It was by any measure an abomination and almost certainly the work of the US military.

The missiles fired at the school on the first day of the war were US Tomahawks. Only America had been targeting numerous sites in the area that day.

Disgracefully, President Trump's first reaction to the atrocity at Minab was an obvious falsehood. It was Iran's fault, he said. They also use Tomahawks. But they don't.

A preliminary US investigation is reported to have concluded this was an American mistake. But that has not been confirmed publicly. Officially, all the Trump administration has said for almost three months now is that it's "under investigation".

Past incidents of mass civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan produced a public admission of responsibility from the Americans within days, at most, a few weeks.

Whatever else the US military was targeting in the area that day, this was a primary school that had been, for more than 10 years, marked clearly on maps.

If it was deliberately targeted, that would be a war crime. If it was misidentified, that potentially is also a breach of the rules of war.

America's reputation is at stake, but so are the lives of more innocent civilians in future. So far, the Pentagon appears to be foot-dragging...
https://news.sky.com/story/utter-hor...wrong-13545757

TheDaddy 19-05-2026 16:13
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36215774)
Sadly true, when it comes to US bombings, it does seem to be women and children first.
And not surprising when you consider they shut the Civilian Protection centre because that drunk hegseth wants to prioritise lethality over protecting the innocent and avoid accountability

Hugh 23-05-2026 21:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Here’s hoping…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmp121z3z8o

Quote:
US President Donald Trump said on Saturday that an agreement with Iran had been "largely negotiated" and details would be announced soon.

The deal would include the opening of the Strait of Hormuz, he said, without giving further details.

Both sides, however, have been cautious, and Iran's foreign ministry spokesperson earlier said the key issue of nuclear weapons would not be part of initial proposals.

On social media, Trump said he had a "very good call" with the leaders of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and others about a "Memorandum of Understanding pertaining to PEACE".

"An agreement has been largely negotiated, subject to finalization between the United States of America, the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the various other Countries, as listed," Trump said.

"Final aspects and details of the deal are currently being discussed, and will be announced shortly," he said.

He also said he had a call on Saturday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, which "went very well".

Chris 23-05-2026 22:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
It would be nice, but the basis of this story is just another brain fart by Trump on his personal social media platform. Iran is saying something rather different. Best case, Trump’s just due his next dose of meds. Worst case, one of his pals has just had yet another price-sensitive tip off and is about to buy or sell their way to their next $billion.

Hugh 23-05-2026 22:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Yeh, just seen the FARS response - you’re right…

ianmcc 23-05-2026 23:35
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
<removed>

.

Paul 24-05-2026 02:37
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
If you joined just to post nonsense like that, dont bother, this isnt twitter.

Dude111 24-05-2026 13:15
I heard they threatend Donnys family.

.

Hugh 29-05-2026 15:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
https://wapo.st/4dOzhBs


Quote:
The United States and Iran have reached a tentative agreement to end their months-long war in the Middle East, senior officials on both sides said Thursday, but it comes with the major caveat that President Donald Trump and his counterparts in Tehran are reviewing it.

Senior U.S. officials acknowledged the framework deal following a night in which U.S. and Iranian forces exchanged drone and missile fire in the region, highlighting the shaky nature of the ceasefire that was declared in April.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent told reporters at the White House that the tentative agreement is “multifaceted” and awaiting Trump’s potential approval.
This time he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize - what other world leader has ended the same war six or seven times (sorry, I've lost count with all the ceasefires, end of wars, temporary cessation of hostilities, etc.) - it's been announced it's ending at least twice in the last week...

I found this quote from the above article to be an interesting interpretation of ”ceasefire"...

Quote:
A U.S. official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss military operations, described the U.S. actions as “measured, purely defensive, and intended to maintain the ceasefire.”
ceasefire

Quote:
A ceasefire is an arrangement in which countries at war agree to stop fighting for a time.



Hugh 13-06-2026 17:58
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1781373452

a) I thought it was already open?

b) which Sunday?

jem 13-06-2026 19:06
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36217268)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1781373452

a) I thought it was already open?

b) which Sunday?
a) It is open, it’s biggly open, more open than any time in history..... and it’ll be even more open.

b) Sixth Sunday in July

c) But this is the big one, 'remove enriched uranium at an undetermined date' - which often translates to ’never’, because we don’t have a clue as to how to do it.

Sigh.

Hugh 17-06-2026 16:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
So much winning…

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/06/17/m...-mou-text-intl

Quote:
Under the draft agreement, the US will allow Iran to sell its oil and petrochemical products, and Tehran may be able to tap into a $300 billion development fund if it meets commitments related to its nuclear program in further negotiations. The document does not include specifics on what will become of Iran’s highly enriched uranium.

…
4 — Immediately upon the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, the United States lift the naval blockade and prevent any interference or obstruction against the Islamic Republic of Iran, and restore traffic within a maximum of 30 days to its full capacity; the traffic of ships shall be proportional to the pre-war volume of traffic on the part of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States also undertakes to withdraw its forces from the surrounding areas within 30 days after the final agreement.

5 — Upon signing this Memorandum of Understanding, the Islamic Republic of Iran will immediately take steps to ensure that the movement of merchant ships from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of Oman and vice versa is resumed within 30 days to the pre-war volume, taking into account the need for the removal of technical obstacles and the neutralization of mines by Iran.

6 — The United States undertakes, together with its regional partners, to create a comprehensive plan agreed upon by both parties for the rehabilitation and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran, while ensuring financing of at least $300 billion. The implementation mechanism of this plan, as part of the final agreement, will be formulated within 60 days.

7 — The United States commits to ending, on a schedule to be agreed upon as part of the final agreement, all types of sanctions currently facing the Islamic Republic of Iran, including resolutions of the United Nations Security Council and the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and all unilateral U.S. sanctions, both primary and secondary.

8 — The Islamic Republic of Iran reiterates that it will never produce nuclear weapons. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States have agreed that the fate of enriched material and the fate of all other mutually agreed nuclear-related issues, including Iran’s nuclear needs, will be adequately addressed in a final agreement; the final agreement will confirm the provisions of this Article.


9 — The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States agree that, pending a final agreement, they will maintain the status quo: Iran will maintain the status quo on its nuclear program, and the United States will not impose new sanctions on Iran or strengthen its forces in the region.

10 — The United States undertakes that immediately after the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, and until the date of the lifting of sanctions, the United States Treasury Department will issue waivers for exports of Iranian crude oil, petrochemical products and their derivatives, and all related services, including banking, insurance, transportation, and the like.

11 — The United States undertakes that, in light of the progress of negotiations towards a final agreement, frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran will be released and made fully available. These funds, whether held in the master account or transferred, will be used for any final beneficiary payment determined by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran and will be fully available for use. The United States undertakes to issue all necessary permits and licenses on this basis.
It would appear we are back to where we were before the JCPOA was ripped up in 2018, except Iran can access $300 billion of development funds, and the USA has used up $90 billion of weapons, and quite a lot of people, including over 100 children, have been killed…

pip08456 17-06-2026 16:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36217562)
So much winning…

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/06/17/m...-mou-text-intl



It would appear we are back to where we were before the JCPOA was ripped up in 2018, except Iran can access $300 billion of development funds, and the USA has used up $90 billion of weapons, and quite a lot of people, including over 100 children, have been killed…
Why don't you just tell it as it is. Trump has surrender to Iran. Or you can explain what America and the world gained form this unneccessary war (or Special Military operation) has gained for anyone other than Iran?

papa smurf 17-06-2026 17:07
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
he deserves an award -the worlds bigliest dick head, well done dumbo and let's not forget he's also knackered the white house

Carth 17-06-2026 17:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Yep, he's fought a hard won (7 times) war that nobody wanted - - apart from Israel and Iran (ongoing until the end of time)

The death toll is horrendous but nobody is to blame . . . 'sigh'

Most of the Western world has been crippled in some way by the blockage of shipping in the Hormuz Strait

oh, and . .
Quote:
The document does not include specifics on what will become of Iran’s highly enriched uranium.
Is that the same stuff they'd already destroyed, or a different batch Iran made with the equipment (again, already destroyed). Gosh, I wonder where it will end up :shrug:

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 17:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36217563)
Why don't you just tell it as it is. Trump has surrender to Iran. Or you can explain what America and the world gained form this unneccessary war (or Special Military operation) has gained for anyone other than Iran?
Maybe to commitment not to build a nuclear weapon. That is if you trust those religious zealots.

Hugh 17-06-2026 17:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36217566)
Maybe to commitment not to build a nuclear weapon. That is if you trust those religious zealots.
You mean like there was under the JCPOA that Trump ripped up?

thenry 17-06-2026 17:46
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36217565)
Gosh, I wonder where it will end up :shrug:
Aim at Volodymyr Zelenskyy :D

jfman 17-06-2026 17:58
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36217563)
Why don't you just tell it as it is. Trump has surrender to Iran. Or you can explain what America and the world gained form this unneccessary war (or Special Military operation) has gained for anyone other than Iran?
The world should have learned that Israel is fundamentally a terrorist state with no interest in peace in the region. At every turn it has spurned Trump’s attempts to end hostilities, even today as it rains down missiles in civilian areas in Lebanon knowing it is a red line for the Iranians.

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 18:06
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36217571)
The world should have learned that Israel is fundamentally a terrorist state with no interest in peace in the region. At every turn it has spurned Trump’s attempts to end hostilities, even today as it rains down missiles in civilian areas in Lebanon knowing it is a red line for the Iranians.
Utter gollox.

Hezbolllah, Hamas and Iran are the terrorists, dedicated to Israel's destruction and the death of its population (as in Jews). If you don't recognise that, there's something wrong with you.

There is much for which Israel can be criticised in regard to its behaviour in the West Bank; that is down to the policies of the right wing religious party and they might be out of power in October (also maybe not).

But not a "terrorist state".

jfman 17-06-2026 18:20
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
It entirely is. In no way does it act within the norms of acceptable behaviour and, thankfully, American foreign policy appears to have woken up to it. European foreign policy has recognised it to some degree and it’s apologists among the population will learn it soon enough when taxes go up to pay for replenishing weapons stockpiles Israel have burned on some of the most defenceless people on the planet - and a tiny minority who probably deserved it.

Sure, some politicians will deploy the Russian bogeyman that’s progression is best measured in yards not miles for the last three years in the SMO.

pip08456 17-06-2026 18:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
A post by Andrew Neil.


The US has circulated its version of the Memo of Understanding with Iran to G7 leaders in France. It’s as bad if not worse than expected.
— The moment it’s signed (Friday) sanctions on the export of Iran oil are lifted. So the regime can start replenishing its coffers immediately.
— The US commits to doing nothing to undermine or destabilise the Iranian regime (it started the war to remove it).
— The US specifically commits to ending its blockade of the Strait of Hormuz but Iran does not commit specifically to returning the Strait to toll/fee free transit exactly as before the war, with no Iranian control/regulation whatsoever .
— All sanctions against Iran will be dropped should phase two negotiations go well. And America will withdraw its forces from the region.
— The US ‘undertakes’ to work with Iran and Gulf allies to create a $300 billion reconstruction package for Iran. So America will now become a partner with the tyrants of Tehran, who Trump only recently wanted to overthrow, in rebuilding their economy.
— All matters related to Iran’s nuclear capabilities are kicked into the ‘final agreement’ in 60 days time (or longer if necessary).
— No mention of Iran’s ballistic missile capabilities or its financing of terrorist proxies.
And that’s just about it. When Trump insisted the war would only end with ‘unconditional surrender’ it never crossed my mind he meant his own.

Make of it what you will.

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 18:37
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36217575)
It entirely is. In no way does it act within the norms of acceptable behaviour and, thankfully, American foreign policy appears to have woken up to it. European foreign policy has recognised it to some degree and it’s apologists among the population will learn it soon enough when taxes go up to pay for replenishing weapons stockpiles Israel have burned on some of the most defenceless people on the planet - and a tiny minority who probably deserved it.

Sure, some politicians will deploy the Russian bogeyman that’s progression is best measured in yards not miles for the last three years in the SMO.
That's always the case: a few baddies can murder 1200 innocent Israelis (except you regard those Israelis as part of a 'terrorist state); the Hamas, are cheered on by nearly every Moslem in the UK and, no doubt in Gaza. Israel retaliates - and how do you do this without collateral damage?

This would be solved if Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran changed their stance on Israel, as did the UAE, Egypt, Jordan et al.

And then there is the exported terrorism in Manchester and Golders Green.

jfman 17-06-2026 18:47
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36217579)
That's always the case: a few baddies can murder 1200 innocent Israelis (except you regard those Israelis as part of a 'terrorist state); the Hamas, are cheered on by nearly every Moslem in the UK and, no doubt in Gaza. Israel retaliates - and how do you do this without collateral damage?

This would be solved if Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran changed their stance on Israel, as did the UAE, Egypt, Jordan et al.

And then there is the exported terrorism in Manchester and Golders Green.
There’s a wild difference between collateral damage and the mass destruction of the homes of 2 million people.

Iran has come to their rescue by exposing the weaknesses of the American/Israeli alliance. No more can the gulf oil states rely on the global policeman to guarantee their security. Nor can they guarantee traffic through the Strait of Hormuz as a key artery for the global economy.

Iranian target practice has probably gave the Russians and Chinese incredible insight into weaknesses in state of the art American military technology. And the world is a far less safe place place for it.

The terrorism on our own doorstep is indeed alarming, which is why we shouldn’t bind our foreign policy to the bloodlust of Benjamin Netanyahu. The best case scenario is he loses the election and someone more moderate takes his place.

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 19:25
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36217583)
There’s a wild difference between collateral damage and the mass destruction of the homes of 2 million people.

Iran has come to their rescue by exposing the weaknesses of the American/Israeli alliance. No more can the gulf oil states rely on the global policeman to guarantee their security. Nor can they guarantee traffic through the Strait of Hormuz as a key artery for the global economy.

Iranian target practice has probably gave the Russians and Chinese incredible insight into weaknesses in state of the art American military technology. And the world is a far less safe place place for it.

The terrorism on our own doorstep is indeed alarming, which is why we shouldn’t bind our foreign policy to the bloodlust of Benjamin Netanyahu. The best case scenario is he loses the election and someone more moderate takes his place.

Quote:
There’s a wild difference between collateral damage and the mass destruction of the homes of 2 million people.
Those people shouldn't have voted for a terrorist administration (Hamas).

Quote:
Iran has come to their rescue by exposing the weaknesses of the American/Israeli alliance. No more can the gulf oil states rely on the global policeman to guarantee their security. Nor can they guarantee traffic through the Strait of Hormuz as a key artery for the global economy.
Are you real? Iran is the terrorist state. What have I misunderstood?

Quote:
The terrorism on our own doorstep is indeed alarming, which is why we shouldn’t bind our foreign policy to the bloodlust of Benjamin Netanyahu. The best case scenario is he loses the election and someone more moderate takes his place.[
There's considerable merit in your final sentence above. But the preceding sentence is nonsense. We don't bind our foreign policy to Israel. We are anti-terrorism (as in Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran). We also recognise the right of Israel to defend itself. It's a pity that Netanyahu is the one doing the defending, though given how Hamas and Hezbollah hide within the population, how would you suggest those terrorist elements are destroyed?

Hugh 17-06-2026 19:42
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Those people shouldn't have voted for a terrorist administration (Hamas).
As has been pointed out before, the last election was in 2006, 20 years ago - 75% of the population is under 25, so pretty sure they didn’t vote anyone in…

https://worldpopulationreview.com/cities/palestine/gaza

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 19:53
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36217590)
As has been pointed out before, the last election was in 2006, 20 years ago - 75% of the population is under 25, so pretty sure they didn’t vote anyone in…

https://worldpopulationreview.com/cities/palestine/gaza
I know. Gaza is/was a terrorist state. Israel holds elections every four years.

Hugh 17-06-2026 19:58
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36217596)
I know. Gaza is/was a terrorist state. Israel holds elections every four years.
If you know, why did you state

Quote:
Those people shouldn't have voted for a terrorist administration (Hamas).
In response to

Quote:
There’s a wild difference between collateral damage and the mass destruction of the homes of 2 million people
when at least 75% didn’t vote for Hamas?

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 20:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36217600)
If you know, why did you state



In response to



when at least 75% didn’t vote for Hamas?
Because the people who voted for Hamas 20 years ago were also hell-bent on the destruction of Israel.

The House of Commons Library, no less, reported on the Hamas election victory from which I have selected a relevant paragraph:

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...17/RP06-17.pdf


Quote:
It is the position adopted by Hamas on the peace process, however, that has caused concern in Israel and internationally. The movement’s charter calls for the destruction of the Jewish state and its paramilitary wing has played a leading role in the second Intifada, carrying out numerous suicide bomb attacks and rocket strikes against Israeli civilians. The Israeli Government has said it will not cooperate with a Palestinian administration that includes Hamas, while the Middle East Quartet (UN, EU, Russia and United States) have called on Hamas to renounce violence and to recognise Israel, or face a dramatic cut in aid to the Palestinian Authority. Hamas says it will seek funding from Arab states and other sources to compensate for any shortfall.

TheDaddy 17-06-2026 20:31
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36217583)

The terrorism on our own doorstep is indeed alarming, which is why we shouldn’t bind our foreign policy to the bloodlust of Benjamin Netanyahu. The best case scenario is he loses the election and someone more moderate takes his place.
Someone like Rabin, who they murdered...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36217602)
Because the people who voted for Hamas 20 years ago were also hell-bent on the destruction of Israel
Yes and 75% of the people currently existing there never voted for them..

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 20:48
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36217603)
Someone like Rabin, who they murdered...




Yes and 75% of the people currently existing there never voted for them..
Don't you think it likely that, had there not been the recent events, that 75% would have voted for Hamas in any election? Were the 75% complaining that there was no election? Did the 75% cheer the Hamas murders?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...es-2023-12-14/

Quote:
JERUSALEM, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found.

The Palestinian Center for Policy Survey and Research (PCPSR) findings were published as international alarm grows over the spiralling Palestinian civilian toll in the Israeli counter-offensive against Hamas, now in its third month.
Seventy-two percent of respondents said they believed the Hamas decision to launch the cross-border rampage in southern Israel was "correct" given its outcome so far, while 22% said it was "incorrect". The remainder were undecided or gave no answer.

Hamas, which is sworn to Israel's destruction, has ruled Gaza since splitting with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in 2007. The PA exercises limited governance in the West Bank.

TheDaddy 17-06-2026 21:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36217604)
Don't you think it likely that, had there not been the recent events, that 75% would have voted for Hamas in any election? Were the 75% complaining that there was no election? Did the 75% cheer the Hamas murders?
If the facts don't suit just change the question till you can shoehorn it into an answer that does...

Chris 17-06-2026 21:16
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36217605)
If the facts don't suit just change the question till you can shoehorn it into an answer that does...
To be fair, the line about people in Gaza today not having voted for Hamas is a pretty blatant ordering of facts in order to prove a point not supported by those facts.

The lack of an election simply tells you that you don’t have an election to tell you what people think. It certainly does not tell you that 75% of Gazans don’t support Hamas, which is always the inference dangled by those who raise this point.

There are other ways of determining levels of support for Hamas in Gaza. Interviewing Gazans is a decent one. I don’t see too many of them willing to denounce Hamas.

Sephiroth 17-06-2026 21:54
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Those terrorists hate Israel, hate Jews and murder them across the world. And all in the name of Islam.


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