Cable Forum
Page 25 of 64 « First 1521222324 25 2627282935 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Coronavirus (OLD) (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708712)

Pierre 21-04-2020 16:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36032238)
Again you choose to focus on the media pieces that fit your narrative and in doing so try to prove a universal truth that nearly all journalists are prioritising unwarranted attacks over objective truth. Of course the real world is different to your perception. There will always be journalists in both camps but you insult a lot of professionals to imply that the vast majority are in the former.
your defence of the media is heart warming, but this is all about perceptions. At the moment, although there may be reputable journalists out there, what we are seeing and hearing is not an even handed summary of the situation.

Piers Morgan was atrocious this morning, already claiming that if they don't reach the 100,000 testing benchmark they were aiming for that Hancock should resign!

I believe that many peoples perception of the media right now tallies with the author of that article.

TheDaddy 21-04-2020 17:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032242)
your defence of the media is heart warming, but this is all about perceptions. At the moment, although there may be reputable journalists out there, what we are seeing and hearing is not an even handed summary of the situation.

Piers Morgan was atrocious this morning, already claiming that if they don't reach the 100,000 testing benchmark they were aiming for that Hancock should resign!

I believe that many peoples perception of the media right now tallies with the author of that article.
When does accountability kick in, they make these bold claims and tell even bolder lies and nothing happens, at worst they'll be sacked for a short time and then brought back into another top job that they proved they weren't up to last time, seems to me they want all the privileges of power and none of the responsibility

Pierre 21-04-2020 18:17
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36032243)
When does accountability kick in, they make these bold claims and tell even bolder lies and nothing happens, at worst they'll be sacked for a short time and then brought back into another top job that they proved they weren't up to last time, seems to me they want all the privileges of power and none of the responsibility
what lies? and accountability is always there. A proper inquiry afterwards would decide if there was any "negligence". Negligence can be atoned for, but you're not suggesting we go after people that may have made genuine mistakes do you?

pip08456 21-04-2020 19:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
Meanwhile...

Quote:
Matt Hancock announces Oxford vaccine project will be ready to trial vaccine in humans from THIS THURSDAY. Scientists there will get £20m for accelerated trials with support of regulators. £22.5m for Imperial phase 2 scheme too.
Source

OLD BOY 21-04-2020 20:11
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36032226)
Wrong as usual. I would be making the same points if Labour made the same mistakes.
I'll take your word for that.

Regardless, you are in the minority.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36032243)
When does accountability kick in, they make these bold claims and tell even bolder lies and nothing happens, at worst they'll be sacked for a short time and then brought back into another top job that they proved they weren't up to last time, seems to me they want all the privileges of power and none of the responsibility
It's a target. That is what he's aiming for.

TheDaddy 22-04-2020 01:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032245)
what lies? and accountability is always there. A proper inquiry afterwards would decide if there was any "negligence". Negligence can be atoned for, but you're not suggesting we go after people that may have made genuine mistakes do you?
What lies :confused: That's all they do, that's why public faith in them is at an all time low. With regard to this specifically are you suggesting they should just be excused mistakes that cost peoples lives just because they were genuine? There was a time not so long ago when people held their hands up and offered their resignation over things a lot less serious.

It's not like the mistakes aren't still happening, on my way to my key worker job today I was flabbergasted at the amount of people out and about, it was like a particularly busy normal day, I went passed a small block of flats and whole families were mingling together without a care in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36032247)
It's a target. That is what he's aiming for.
Yes I believe that's the standard procedure wirh a target. Self medicating with booze is as good a way as any to get through the lockdown, I won't judge you for it.

Pierre 22-04-2020 09:51
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36032256)
What lies :confused: That's all they do, that's why public faith in them is at an all time low.
. Just thought you could come up with some examples as you accused them, obviously not.

Quote:
With regard to this specifically are you suggesting they should just be excused mistakes that cost peoples lives just because they were genuine?
As I said there needs to be an enquiry to ascertain if there was any carelessness or negligence. If somebody in the run up to this estimated that 2million PPE gowns would be sufficient, but it turned out we actually needed 4million - that’s a mistake, I wouldn’t sack anyone for that.

Quote:
There was a time not so long ago when people held their hands up and offered their resignation over things a lot less serious.
Never been one for the instant resignation, depending on what the error is

Quote:
It's not like the mistakes aren't still happening, on my way to my key worker job today I was flabbergasted at the amount of people out and about, it was like a particularly busy normal day, I went passed a small block of flats and whole families were mingling together without a care in the world.
That’s not the government, that is the public, get them to resign.

---------- Post added at 09:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Typically the BBC is headlining the news on TV right now with the story of the flight full of PPE equipment arriving from Turkey, they're not saying "oh great more vital PPE", no. They are focusing that it is 3 days late - yes that's the real story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52378491

Secondly they are criticising the government for joining an EU scheme purchase PPE late.

Although the scheme has not yet delivered 1 box of PPE or 1 ventilator.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52377087

tweetiepooh 22-04-2020 09:57
Re: Coronavirus
 
Mutations in corona virus
I've not gone into the detail yet but this report suggests over 30 strains of corona virus with some more virulent than others. It also suggests that Europe has had more of the virulent form and the US more of a milder strain (at least in some places). If true this could explain higher death rates in some places that others.

nomadking 22-04-2020 09:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
That is the thing about the EU scheme that I don't get. If it was so successful, why isn't the EU awash with PPE stuff, and still suffering from shortages?

Carth 22-04-2020 10:25
Re: Coronavirus
 
I think the PM and his band of merry men people have made decisions and given statements of intent purely on the basis of the advice given to them by the many experienced experts in their fields.

Didn't do (everyones favourite) Tony Blair any harm did it?

Hugh 22-04-2020 10:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36032267)
That is the thing about the EU scheme that I don't get. If it was so successful, why isn't the EU awash with PPE stuff, and still suffering from shortages?
Because the entire world is trying to get hold of it, and it takes weeks/months to manufacture and ship - the orders are in, they are being manufactured.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36032271)
I think the PM and his band of merry men people have made decisions and given statements of intent purely on the basis of the advice given to them by the many experienced experts in their fields.

Didn't do (everyones favourite) Tony Blair any harm did it?
If you believe that, I've got a bridge you can buy... ;)

Politicians (of whatever party/country) use the expert advice as advice, which is then shaped by the political climate/persons in charge.

nomadking 22-04-2020 10:40
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032274)
Because the entire world is trying to get hold of it, and it takes weeks/months to manufacture and ship - the orders are in, they are being manufactured.

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 ----------

If you believe that, I've got a bridge you can buy... ;)

Politicians (of whatever party/country) use the expert advice as advice, which is then shaped by the political climate/persons in charge.
So no advantage whatsoever in being part of an EU scheme that would control and limit allocation anyway.:rolleyes: So what is all the fuss and nonsense about?

Hugh 22-04-2020 10:52
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36032276)
So no advantage whatsoever in being part of an EU scheme that would control and limit allocation anyway.:rolleyes: So what is all the fuss and nonsense about?
Seriously?

So, it's no advantage in being part of a scheme that started over a month ago, and has orders with suppliers and shippers that will be arriving soon, rather than scrambling for orders from places like Turkey that get held up because they don't have local Government clearance (in this case, a Turkish export licence), on goods that have multiple weeks/months supply chain requirements, and haven't even received final NHS approval?

https://www.ft.com/content/a265fac3-...d-769d281fa42f
Quote:
There were chaotic scenes in Turkey, where British officials desperately worked with Ankara to source PPE to load on to an RAF plane after an initial order with a Turkish supplier for 84 tonnes of equipment failed to materialise.

Whitehall officials said on Tuesday that part of a Turkish PPE consignment — originally scheduled to arrive on Sunday — had finally arrived at Istanbul airport, but had not been cleared by customs or received final NHS approval.

However, the RAF plane waiting on the tarmac at Istanbul to deliver the PPE to the UK has a maximum capacity of 25 tonnes. Two further military aircraft, which are still at Brize Norton airfield in Oxfordshire, were awaiting orders to depart for Turkey.
Quote:
Meanwhile, next week the first British-made surgical gowns will go into production. Don & Low, a rare producer in the UK of the specialist non-woven material required, has signed a government contract to make enough for 3m-3.5m gowns over three months.

Burberry, the fashion house, and other clothing makers will stitch the gowns. Will Campbell, sales manager of Don & Low, told the FT they had to “build a supply chain from the ground up . . . The problem is the whole world is buying 10, 12 times the normal requirements. We don’t traditionally make gowns in the UK.”

He said his company was first approached by the government about three weeks ago.
tl:dr - the sooner we placed the orders in an agreed procurement process, the sooner we would have received the equipment required, as there is intense competition for PPE which often has a long materials supply chain.

1andrew1 22-04-2020 11:03
Re: Coronavirus
 
Roche has released its results today and in amongst them are some interesting comments

Confirmation that our testing infrastructure is below those of the better countries but is improving:

Quote:
Roche’s chief executive has said the UK has not invested enough in healthcare and testing infrastructure in recent years — leaving it to lag behind other countries and hindering its response to coronavirus. The Swiss company is one of the diagnostics “big four”, providing molecular tests that look for the presence of the virus using so-called “high throughput” machines, which can process many tests in short amounts of time. “You cannot just start a lab on a greenfield,” Severin Schwan, Roche’s chief executive, said on Wednesday, as he gave a first-quarter trading update.“One of the learnings of this crisis is you see some of the countries who have invested in healthcare, in testing infrastructure over the last [few] years, such as certain countries in Asia, [like] Singapore, or, say, South Korea. Or, if you look in Europe: Germany, Switzerland,” he said. “Those countries now have a huge advantage.” “And then you have other countries who under-invested in healthcare infrastructure, but now it shows,” he said.“There are certain regions in the UK where there is no single high throughput platform,” Mr Schwan went on to say. “In Switzerland, there are 20.”
But things are now improving in the UK
Quote:
Roche said bottlenecks in testing were down to the lack of infrastructure, rather than a lack of tests, but noted that the UK had made advances in the past few weeks. There has been a “lot of co-operation with authorities, so they should get some credit for what they’ve done”, said Mr Schwan.“The UK and other governments are under enormous pressure,” he said. “To a certain degree nobody could really foresee that and they’re really working hard.”He added Roche was installing new testing infrastructure in the UK and that this “was only possible” because the government supported it.
https://www.ft.com/content/9e3dfb65-...8-a26613ac2c79

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36032276)
So no advantage whatsoever in being part of an EU scheme that would control and limit allocation anyway.:rolleyes: So what is all the fuss and nonsense about?
People dying through lack of PPE is not fuss and nonsense in most people's eyes.

pip08456 22-04-2020 11:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36032281)
People dying through lack of PPE is not fuss and nonsense in most people's eyes.
And as the EU procurement program has yet to supply 1 piece of PPE then being part of it or not is fuss and nonsense as you well know Andrew.

Quote:
The European Commission said the UK would miss out on the first orders of ventilators and protective equipment which have been placed but have yet to be delivered.
Quote:
The UK now has 10,000 ventilators - 3,000 of which are not being used. From early May, 1,500 a week should be supplied by ventilator consortium.

Pierre 22-04-2020 11:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032274)
Because the entire world is trying to get hold of it, and it takes weeks/months to manufacture and ship - the orders are in, they are being manufactured.
So it's perfectly acceptable for the EU to trot that excuse out, but when the Government say it, they get criticised and lambasted for not forward planning?

1andrew1 22-04-2020 11:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36032283)
And as the EU procurement program has yet to supply 1 piece of PPE then being part of it or not is fuss and nonsense as you well know Andrew.
That's a non-sequitur as you should know.

Pierre 22-04-2020 11:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032279)
that will be arriving soon
Soon? not a very accurate ETA is it. Some people may consider a few weeks being "soon"

Quote:
the sooner we placed the orders in an agreed procurement process, the sooner we would have received the equipment required, as there is intense competition for PPE which often has a long materials supply chain.
We wouldn't have got any kit any quicker via the EU, that's for sure.

Hugh 22-04-2020 12:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Some good news

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...oved-ckh2s2mhj
Quote:
A consortium of British companies will make 15,000 new ventilators in the next few months to fill the NHS’s shortfall.

Ministers placed an unexpectedly large order yesterday for the Penlon ESO2 devices, which are the first to receive approval after Boris Johnson challenged industry to join the national fight against coronavirus.

The order will bring the number of ventilators in the NHS to more than 25,000. At the start of the pandemic it had only 8,000 and there were fears that hospitals would not have enough to treat the influx of patients.


---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032284)
So it's perfectly acceptable for the EU to trot that excuse out, but when the Government say it, they get criticised and lambasted for not forward planning?
No, I have always said that it is not fair to criticise them for that - what I have criticised is not having the emergency just in case stocks in place, and not joining the EU procurement initiative so that we will get the PPE equipment quicker.

My post from the 18th

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36031973)
I think the problem is that it is expected that, during a world-wide shortage of PPE, and an unforeseen requirement for PPE in Care Homes (the supply requirement went from a couple of hundred Trusts to over 58,000 organisations), there would/should be enought for everyone - this is a massive shift in requirements in a time of crisis, and a complex supply chain, mostly from overseas.

Could things have been done better - probably; does it help blaming people until we know the facts - probably not.

There have been shortfalls in lots of places - an example would be in Care Homes, where the group that my mum-in-law is in got supplies of PPE early in the crisis, whilst other Care Home organisations didn't; the other care homes shouldn't be blamed for not being as forward thinking as the one mum's in, because at the beginning very few people thought it would come to this. Should all the GP Surgeries, which are in effect private businesses, be blamed for not having ordered PPE equipment earlier?

In the vast complexity of Health and Social Care, whatever the Government does, it won't be enough - review afterwards, critique constructively during, but blaming is inappropriate at this stage, imho (especially without evidence, as in the comments about NHS managers).

From the Times
On the 13rh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36031457)
Reasonably balanced article in the Times today.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...TM_1Imag_CR1_2

Washington Post view

https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-r...m=4&linktot=78

At this time, I think the Government made decisions based on what they thought was best for the country at that time, then changed when evidence within and without the country showed differently - I hope we learn from this, but any witch hunt will only make that more difficult.

denphone 22-04-2020 12:43
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032292)

No, I have always said that it is not fair to criticise them for that - what I have criticised is not having the emergency just in case stocks in place, and not joining the EU procurement initiative so that we will get the PPE equipment quicker.
Even if there is just a small chance of it turning into a full scale epidemic one should should always have have the stock just in case.

Pierre 22-04-2020 13:00
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032292)
and not joining the EU procurement initiative so that we will get the PPE equipment quicker.
They've got some quicker, just flew in from Turkey.

Hugh 22-04-2020 13:27
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032295)
They've got some quicker, just flew in from Turkey.
The EU countries already have some, the EU procurement initiative was planning for when there were greater shortfalls due to increased demand...

Anyway, on a more humorous note, people were explaining why Jacob Rees-Mogg was in the HoC for the resumption of Parliament, rather than video-conferencing, when some one said on Twitter
Quote:
Jacob doesn’t appear on screens or mirrors...
:batty: :D

nomadking 22-04-2020 13:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032298)
The EU countries already have some, the EU procurement initiative was planning for when there were greater shortfalls due to increased demand...

Anyway, on a more humorous note, people were explaining why Jacob Rees-Mogg was in the HoC for the resumption of Parliament, rather than video-conferencing, when some one said on Twitter

:batty: :D
So how come Spain, Italy, and France all had shortages?

pip08456 22-04-2020 13:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032295)
They've got some quicker, just flew in from Turkey.
That's just the first load (25 tons of 84 tons total).

1andrew1 22-04-2020 15:19
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032287)
We wouldn't have got any kit any quicker via the EU, that's for sure.
Were you blessed with this knowledge back in March when the decisioon to join or not was made?

jonbxx 22-04-2020 16:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
Acquisition of PPE is a public health issue and so does not normally fall under the EUs umbrella as public health is a national issue, not an EU wide one so the European Commission has started from scratch on this one.

So why did countries ask/allow the EU to take on PPE procurement? I am guessing cost is a big issue. If 27 countries (or 28 if someone checks their email) plus a few other countries are all bidding for a limited supply of PPE, a bidding war will start which doesn't help anyone but most impacts the less well off countries which have been hit hard by the virus.

papa smurf 22-04-2020 17:04
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36032300)
That's just the first load (25 tons of 84 tons total).
is all this stuff single use or do scrubs get cleaned and reused?

pip08456 22-04-2020 17:08
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36032310)
Acquisition of PPE is a public health issue and so does not normally fall under the EUs umbrella as public health is a national issue, not an EU wide one so the European Commission has started from scratch on this one.

So why did countries ask/allow the EU to take on PPE procurement? I am guessing cost is a big issue. If 27 countries (or 28 if someone checks their email) plus a few other countries are all bidding for a limited supply of PPE, a bidding war will start which doesn't help anyone but most impacts the less well off countries which have been hit hard by the virus.
Do you think there isn't already a bidding war for PPE.

Quote:
"Where we are now, 50 states all trying to buy the same equipment from China, and then the federal government comes in with (the Federal Emergency Management Agency), which is trying to purchase the same equipment," Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York, a Democrat, said on April 2 during an appearance on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show."

"I bought 17,000 ventilators – ordered 17,000 ventilators from China – but I think what's happening is when somebody else outbids you, your order just is gone. I haven't even received 1,000."
Source

Chris 22-04-2020 17:09
Re: Coronavirus
 
70% of journalists and media professionals polled by the Press Gazette think journalists are not doing a good job of holding the government to account over the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/poll-...spondents-say/

Hugh 22-04-2020 17:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36032313)
70% of journalists and media professionals polled by the Press Gazette think journalists are not doing a good job of holding the government to account over the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/poll-...spondents-say/
I think most of us would agree...

Too many click bait questions.

jonbxx 22-04-2020 18:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36032312)
Do you think there isn't already a bidding war for PPE.



Source
I don't think for a minute that there isn't to be honest but at least this way, the EU and a few other nations aren't competing against each other for the same products. Plus bulk buying (€1.5bn on PPE and €750m on ventilators) often works out cheaper.

Nothing to stop nation states buying their own kit of course but delegating the procurement can help. It's why NHS procurement at the trust level is such a dumb idea

nomadking 22-04-2020 18:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Surely an EU scheme entails the EU also being in control of allocation and complete control of purchasing. The UK wouldn't been able to buy anything, only the EU would've been allowed to. Otherwise the UK and other EU countries would be bidding against the EU itself.


Has the EU scheme achieved anything yet? Apparently not, so joining or not joining is a complete irrelevance, as the current situation wouldn't have been any better.:rolleyes:

Pierre 22-04-2020 18:52
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36032307)
Were you blessed with this knowledge back in March when the decisioon to join or not was made?
That, as I’m sure you know, is totally irrelevant.

Paul 22-04-2020 18:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
1 Attachment(s)
NHS England has started compiling deaths by the date on which they happened.
The daily figures released by government [atm] represent when deaths are recorded, not when they happened.

Quote:
The peak - in England at least - seems to have happened on 8 April, experts say.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...chmentid=28316

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52374513

Pierre 22-04-2020 18:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36032320)
I don't think for a minute that there isn't to be honest but at least this way, the EU and a few other nations aren't competing against each other for the same products.
Who decides what nations get what amount!

denphone 22-04-2020 18:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
l thought Professor Chris Whitty made some very key points today as he stated that “very socially disruptive” measures would almost certainly have to remain in force for the rest of the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...latest-updates

Quote:
He also said that we are going to have to do a lot of things for really quite a long period of time, the question is what is the best package and this is what we’re trying to work out.

Quote:
In the long run, the exit from this is going to be one of two things, ideally. A vaccine, and there are a variety of ways they can be deployed ... or, and/or, highly effective drugs so that people stop dying of this disease even if they catch it, or which can prevent this disease in vulnerable people.
Quote:
Until we have those, and the probability of having those any time in the next calendar year are incredibly small and I think we should be realistic about that.

Quote:
We’re going to have to rely on other social measures, which of course are very socially disruptive as everyone is finding at the moment.
Quote:
But until that point, that is what we will have to do but it will be the best combination that maximises the outlooks but it’s going to take a long time and I think we need to be aware of that.

Hugh 22-04-2020 20:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36032322)
Surely an EU scheme entails the EU also being in control of allocation and complete control of purchasing. The UK wouldn't been able to buy anything, only the EU would've been allowed to. Otherwise the UK and other EU countries would be bidding against the EU itself.


Has the EU scheme achieved anything yet? Apparently not, so joining or not joining is a complete irrelevance, as the current situation wouldn't have been any better.:rolleyes:
So, when I placed my online food shopping order at Morrison, it was a complete irrelevance for the three weeks until the food arrived?

Best cancel it then... :rolleyes:

nomadking 22-04-2020 21:03
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032337)
So, when I placed my online food shopping order at Morrison, it was a complete irrelevance for the three weeks until the food arrived?

Best cancel it then... :rolleyes:
What has that got to do with anything?:rolleyes:
The criticism is about current, recent past, and near future supply. The EU scheme is merely theoretical as it hasn't yet produced anything physical. Even if we had joined whatever the scheme is meant to be, it wouldn't have improved the current, recent past, or near future supply situation.
If anything, it PROVES we shouldn't have joined the scheme, as it couldn't be relied upon to provide anything. We would be idly waiting for whatever the EU sent our way, rather being able to make our own arrangements.
A bit like waiting for a supermarket delivery, when you're(not personally) perfectly able to go to the shops yourselves, and then complaining when they don't have certain items in stock, and haven't made sensible replacements and so are short on what you expected.

RichardCoulter 22-04-2020 21:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36032329)
l thought Professor Chris Whitty made some very key points today as he stated that “very socially disruptive” measures would almost certainly have to remain in force for the rest of the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...latest-updates
Especially as WHO are now saying that only 2 or 3% seem to be developing immunity:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...20-4?r=US&IR=T

Pierre 22-04-2020 21:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032337)
So, when I placed my online food shopping order at Morrison, it was a complete irrelevance for the three weeks until the food arrived?
:
No ETA for the EU has been given...”soon”. Is the best they can come up with.

If it was say 2 months before your order arrived? What then? You’d have to do something or go hungry...................


In the mean time the U.K. has nipped to the shops.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36032339)
Especially as WHO are now saying that only 2 or 3% seem to be developing immunity:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...20-4?r=US&IR=T
No they’re not saying that, bottom line is they don’t know enough yet.

Also the question mark is around the tests

Quote:
Van Kerkhove said: "Right now, we have no evidence that the use of a serological test can show that an individual has immunity or is protected from reinfection." Serological tests are those which test the blood for antibodies.
They don’t know. However I am yet to see lots of reports of people being re-infected.

Hugh 22-04-2020 21:43
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032342)
No ETA for the EU has been given...”soon”. Is the best they can come up with.

If it was say 2 months before your order arrived? What then? You’d have to do something or go hungry...................


In the mean time the U.K. has nipped to the shops.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------



No they’re not saying that, bottom line is they don’t know enough yet.

Also the question mark is around the tests



They don’t know. However I am yet to see lots of reports of people being re-infected.
As have the EU, so not sure of your point...

The point of the EU Procurement Exercise was to provide a central stockpile, using co-ordinated mass buying power, to be called off as required after delivery, with regular agreed future orders, rather than individual countries having to continually scrabble around competing against the rest of the world.

Consortiums get better deals, as they have more buying power - it’s how procurement works...

1andrew1 22-04-2020 21:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36032338)
What has that got to do with anything?:rolleyes:
The criticism is about current, recent past, and near future supply. The EU scheme is merely theoretical as it hasn't yet produced anything physical. Even if we had joined whatever the scheme is meant to be, it wouldn't have improved the current, recent past, or near future supply situation.
If anything, it PROVES we shouldn't have joined the scheme, as it couldn't be relied upon to provide anything. We would be idly waiting for whatever the EU sent our way, rather being able to make our own arrangements.
A bit like waiting for a supermarket delivery, when you're(not personally) perfectly able to go to the shops yourselves, and then complaining when they don't have certain items in stock, and haven't made sensible replacements and so are short on what you expected.
I'm not sure it's early enough to say this yet.

nomadking 22-04-2020 21:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
The thing to remember is that if you get it and recover, you can still have it in your system. After all, how else is an immune system meant to work if the virus or whatever, is not in your blood for it to attack? The immune system doesn't raise an invisible shield around you. It just manages to keep it under control.

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36032348)
I'm not sure it's early enough to say this yet.
So when exactly is this EU scheme expected to deliver anything? It's a seller's market, so discounts aren't going to be had.

Pierre 22-04-2020 21:52
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032347)
As have the EU, so not sure of your point...
It’s not difficult Hugh.

The may have “placed an order” but nothing has arrived and there doesn’t seem to be a hard delivery date.

U.K. has physically gone to Turkey put the items in the trolley and gone home with them.


Quote:
The point of the EU Procurement Exercise was to provide a central stockpile, using co-ordinated mass buying power, to be called off as required after delivery, with regular agreed future orders, rather than individual countries having to continually scrabble around competing against the rest of the world.
Well it hasn’t provided anything yet.

Also there is no detail as to how the stockpile will be managed, who will manage it and who will get what and when.

What if we put all our faith in this EU scheme and nothing turned up for 3-4 weeks and when it did a lesser amount arrived in the first shipment and we got allocated a smaller % than Italy and Spain, and not enough for our needs.....................

No doubt the media would be very understanding that we didn’t go out and procure our own stuff?

1andrew1 22-04-2020 22:00
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032353)
U.K. has physically gone to Turkey put the items in the trolley and gone home with them.
Nope, they only got some of it. A bit like my first few attempts at shopping post lock-down. ;)

Quote:
Turkey PPE supplier doesn't have enough stock to meet UK order - as first batch lands
A commercial supplier in Turkey did not have enough stock to fulfil an order for 84 tonnes of protective equipment supposed to be bound for the UK, Turkish officials have said.
British sources said the UK government was working with the company and the Turkish authorities to secure the shipment "as soon as possible" - though no time frame was given.

Pierre 22-04-2020 22:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36032354)
Nope, they only got some of it. A bit like my first few attempts at shopping post lock-down. ;)
And? They’re free to back and collect the rest when available. 30% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

1andrew1 22-04-2020 22:32
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032355)
And? They’re free to back and collect the rest when available. 30% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
That's correct but your earlier assertion that they had collected their order is incorrect.

Pierre 22-04-2020 22:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36032356)
That's correct but your earlier assertion that they had collected their order is incorrect.
Don’t think that was my “assertion”. I merely stated they shopped and bought.

But we’re getting a bit finicky now.

Paul 23-04-2020 02:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36032357)
But we’re getting a bit finicky now.
This whole constant bickering and ever more stupid nit picking is getting very tiresome.

I posted some figures a while back that were actually relevant to the topic, and all anyone could do was continue their stupid arguments and/or finger pointing.

If this continues to simply be a moaning & bitching topic, its going to take a break.

Hugh 23-04-2020 08:27
Re: Coronavirus
 
Another clinical trial about to start.

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/...vaccine-trial/
Quote:
BioNTech and Pfizer have secured approval from the German regulatory authority, Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, to conduct a Phase I/II clinical trial of a Covid-19 vaccine candidate.

The candidate, BioNTech’s BNT162, is intended to prevent Covid-19 infection. BioNTech and Pfizer are co-develping the vaccine programme.

Said to be the first Covid-19 vaccine trial to launch in Germany, the study is part of a global development programme.

The partners expect to receive US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval and conduct a trial in the country shortly.

Carth 23-04-2020 08:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36032361)
This whole constant bickering and ever more stupid nit picking is getting very tiresome.

I posted some figures a while back that were actually relevant to the topic, and all anyone could do was continue their stupid arguments and/or finger pointing.

If this continues to simply be a moaning & bitching topic, its going to take a break.
It's the Brexit thread all over again isn't it :D

The whole World is waiting for something to happen, and until it does, the media (in all its formats) will be running in circles regurgitating the same news using different words, playing on the fears and weaknesses of the population, rolling out a raft of 'expert' opinions from people you've never heard of . . . . and becoming increasingly desperate to be seen as knowledgeable ;)

Russ 23-04-2020 09:11
Re: Coronavirus
 
Sounds like a typical day on CF :D

ianch99 23-04-2020 13:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36032313)
70% of journalists and media professionals polled by the Press Gazette think journalists are not doing a good job of holding the government to account over the Covid-19 crisis.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/poll-...spondents-say/
Just to be clear, the question posed in the above poll was:

Quote:
Do you think journalists have done a good job of holding the Government to account during the daily UK Covid-19 press briefings
I think most of us would agree that the press briefings are a waste of time. Both, from the perspective of the invited journalists holding the Government to account and to the spokespeople treating the country like adults.

Carth 23-04-2020 14:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Must be a quiet news day . . . knife crime has hit the headlines again

. . . along with the usual stuff (guesswork) about schools re-opening, the lock down, UK borrowing, the nurse who saved Boris, and the WHO now saying 'up to' 50% of deaths are in care homes . . . . although I heard the other day that the ethnic communities accounted for more than is normal (whatever that is? )

oh, and Prince Louis got his hands covered in paint

and there's an upcoming vacancy for the England womens football team manager if anyone fancies a change of career

Sephiroth 23-04-2020 14:11
Re: Coronavirus
 
The Torygraph today (pay wall so no link) analysed the Guvmin's strategy in the context of suggesting that herd immunity was their ultimate aim.

Strand 5 of the Torygraph's analysis focused on Nightingale hospitals, their number and size.

The killer quote was this:

Asked whether the Nightingale Hospitals were being kept for a possible second wave, a Downing Street spokesman has said "I am not aware of any plans to stand down these Nightingale Hospitals and some are still being built.

Carth 23-04-2020 14:20
Re: Coronavirus
 
They're still building them because if they stopped, the public would go ape shit* . . . .


. . .


*like bat shit but with frenzied arm gesticulation

Hugh 23-04-2020 14:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36032386)
The Torygraph today (pay wall so no link) analysed the Guvmin's strategy in the context of suggesting that herd immunity was their ultimate aim.

Strand 5 of the Torygraph's analysis focused on Nightingale hospitals, their number and size.

The killer quote was this:

Asked whether the Nightingale Hospitals were being kept for a possible second wave, a Downing Street spokesman has said "I am not aware of any plans to stand down these Nightingale Hospitals and some are still being built.
Probably in case the second wave coincides with the flu season...

Pierre 23-04-2020 14:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36032386)
Asked whether the Nightingale Hospitals were being kept for a possible second wave, a Downing Street spokesman has said "I am not aware of any plans to stand down these Nightingale Hospitals and some are still being built.
As has been pointed out on here many times by many people. Infection rates may decline and rise continually for some time.

The one and only aim of lockdown and social distancing was to ensure that ICU demand did not outstrip supply. Initial forecasts of 80% of the population being infected most likely still stand.

People will no doubt continue to be infected for many many months to come, probably well into next year.

People at risk, and family members around them, will have to be very careful for a long time.

The initial aim of "herd immunity" is still the end game - if indeed it is a defence against this virus, but like I say there doesn't seem to be any papers stating that reinfection is likely.

downquark1 23-04-2020 14:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36032386)
The Torygraph today (pay wall so no link) analysed the Guvmin's strategy in the context of suggesting that herd immunity was their ultimate aim.

Strand 5 of the Torygraph's analysis focused on Nightingale hospitals, their number and size.

The killer quote was this:

Asked whether the Nightingale Hospitals were being kept for a possible second wave, a Downing Street spokesman has said "I am not aware of any plans to stand down these Nightingale Hospitals and some are still being built.
Heard immunity is everyone's ultimate aim. Either through careful exposure or vaccination.

RichardCoulter 23-04-2020 14:49
Re: Coronavirus
 
Sniffer dogs could be used to sniff out the virus:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-11637592

Pierre 23-04-2020 15:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36032392)
Sniffer dogs could be used to sniff out the virus:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-11637592
and Mickey Mouse has developed a cure.

denphone 23-04-2020 15:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
Some thoughts here from James Forsyth the Spectators political editor.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...down-be-lifted

Paul 23-04-2020 15:57
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36032392)
Sniffer dogs could be used to sniff out the virus:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-11637592
Ummmmm, that links to this ;

Quote:
Wellworths forced to change name by Woolworths owner
:confused:

Russ 23-04-2020 16:00
Re: Coronavirus
 
:rofl:

RichardCoulter 23-04-2020 16:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36032395)
Ummmmm, that links to this ;

:confused:
Not sure what happened there! https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/52351553

Pierre should now be able to read it before commenting.

Bucking the trend of the rest of the world, the Scottish Island of Berneray is coronavirus free! Let's hope it stays that way. Nevertheless, the islanders are still social distancing and are on lockdown.

Taf 23-04-2020 16:16
Re: Coronavirus
 
If you try to hold your breath for a long time, it's not a lack of oxygen that forces you to breathe but the build-up of carbon dioxide in your blood. Whales and other animals can turn off this response, so can dive for extended periods. Covid 19 is perhaps doing this too, as some people are not feeling breathless but the levels of oxygen in their blood are dangerously low?

RichardCoulter 23-04-2020 16:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36032401)
If you try to hold your breath for a long time, it's not a lack of oxygen that forces you to breathe but the build-up of carbon dioxide in your blood. Whales and other animals can turn off this response, so can dive for extended periods. Covid 19 is perhaps doing this too, as some people are not feeling breathless but the levels of oxygen in their blood are dangerously low?
Let's hope that dogs will be able to help the situation; they have been known to be able to sniff cancer etc. It would be quicker and cheaper than using testing kits.

There was actually some fake news going round that if you could hold your breathe for 20 seconds, then you didn't have Covid-19.

papa smurf 23-04-2020 16:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
And on a lighter note this made me smile
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...campaign-video

Hugh 23-04-2020 17:23
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36032401)
If you try to hold your breath for a long time, it's not a lack of oxygen that forces you to breathe but the build-up of carbon dioxide in your blood. Whales and other animals can turn off this response, so can dive for extended periods. Covid 19 is perhaps doing this too, as some people are not feeling breathless but the levels of oxygen in their blood are dangerously low?
Strangely enough, I had the very same conversation with my bro-in-law today (he lives in Connecticut) - his partner has had symptoms, so he got hold of a Sat02 monitor because he is finding from hospital colleagues and unpublished data that patients are getting low Sat02 in absence of respiratory symptoms then crashing, leading to devastating effects.

(Sat02 monitor - blood oxygen saturation monitor, clips on the end of your finger)

nomadking 23-04-2020 17:34
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032409)
Strangely enough, I had the very same conversation with my bro-in-law today (he lives in Connecticut) - his partner has had symptoms, so he got hold of a Sat02 monitor because he is finding from hospital colleagues and unpublished data that patients are getting low Sat02 in absence of respiratory symptoms then crashing, leading to devastating effects.

(Sat02 monitor - blood oxygen saturation monitor, clips on the end of your finger)
Also known as a pulse oximeter.

Sephiroth 23-04-2020 17:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Taf's post makes complete sense. So I've ordered an oximeter in case my chances would need improving. Hope never to use it in other than out of curiosity. Prolly beats a virus test.

pip08456 23-04-2020 17:51
Re: Coronavirus
 
Less than £20

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fingertip...0AAOSwxrJemBRo

denphone 23-04-2020 17:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36032413)
l have had mine for 9 years now although it cost £23.70 then and it still works.:)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

RichardCoulter 23-04-2020 18:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36032414)
l have had mine for 9 years now although it cost £23.70 then and it still works.:)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
You have a very good memory to remember what it cost 9 years ago!

denphone 23-04-2020 18:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36032415)
You have a very good memory to remember what it cost 9 years ago!
Quite a poor memory actually :D as all one has to do is type in a product one previously ordered from Amazon and it shows up with the complete order details.

Paul 23-04-2020 18:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36032415)
You have a very good memory to remember what it cost 9 years ago!
It probably only cost £25 or so back in January ....

papa smurf 23-04-2020 18:39
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36032415)
You have a very good memory to remember what it cost 9 years ago!
Unless the price is still on the box it came in.

pip08456 24-04-2020 02:43
Re: Coronavirus
 
Trump has totally lost the plot.

https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/s...50176510992384

The disinfectant he's talking about is isopropol alcohol.

Paul 24-04-2020 02:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
I'm not sure he ever had the plot. :erm:

Hugh 24-04-2020 07:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
"What if we bring the light inside the body?"

Have they tried shrinking a submarine and its crew, then injecting them into the body?

Sephiroth 24-04-2020 09:11
Re: Coronavirus
 
Someone must have set Trump up! He'll be hopping mad now!

Maggy 24-04-2020 09:30
Re: Coronavirus
 
He needs to shut up and let the adults talk.

jonbxx 24-04-2020 09:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
Any essential workers here going to apply for their test today?

I'm interested to get a result but, in all honesty, I probably don't need to get a test right now as I am not leaving the house right now. I will probably leave it a couple of weeks until the initial kerfuffle has died down or until the need to travel for work raises its' head.

papa smurf 24-04-2020 09:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36032445)
Any essential workers here going to apply for their test today?

I'm interested to get a result but, in all honesty, I probably don't need to get a test right now as I am not leaving the house right now. I will probably leave it a couple of weeks until the initial kerfuffle has died down or until the need to travel for work raises its' head.
according to the jeremy vine show you can't even get on the web site.

Russ 24-04-2020 10:00
Re: Coronavirus
 
Does anyone need any more proof that Trump is an absolute tool?

denphone 24-04-2020 10:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36032446)
according to the jeremy vine show you can't even get on the web site.
All of today's coronavirus home test kits for key workers have gone already it states on the the GOVUK site and it says check back here tomorrow.

1andrew1 24-04-2020 10:37
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36032442)
Someone must have set Trump up! He'll be hopping mad now!
Lol Of course he was set up. Not. :D:D:D

Carth 24-04-2020 10:39
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36032438)
"What if we bring the light inside the body?"

Have they tried shrinking a submarine and its crew, then injecting them into the body?
I remember that, but can't for the life of me recall the series name :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36032445)
Any essential workers here going to apply for their test today?
I work in a food factory, but don't think I'm on an 'essential' list anywhere. I guess there may be a difference between essential and expendable :p: :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36032449)
All of today's coronavirus home test kits for key workers have gone already it states on the the GOVUK site and it says check back here tomorrow.
Supply & demand isn't it. If you really really want to get tested, just turn up at your local casualty dept and tell them you don't feel well . . . see if they test you :D


*todays post has been brought to you by a bored person with a snapped top E string and no spare*

Chris 24-04-2020 10:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36032448)
Does anyone need any more proof that Trump is an absolute tool?
I'm still not entirely convinced. Maybe if we asked him to give a demo though?

Carth 24-04-2020 10:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36032453)
I'm still not entirely convinced. Maybe if we asked him to give a demo though?
But what if that turned him into some kind of mentally deranged super hero with a strange hair style . . . oh, hang on

heero_yuy 24-04-2020 11:06
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Quote from The Sun: KIM Jong-un travelled to an exclusive beach resort after people around him tested positive for the coronavirus, it has been reported.

The North Korean dictator reportedly left the capital Pyongyang on his private train and headed to Wonsan-Kalma peninsula last week where he has a private villa.

Kim, who is believed to be 36, opted to head to the Wonsan-Kalma peninsula, on the east coast of the country, after members of his inner circle fell ill, Korean outlet Ichannela reported.
Do you think he'll get ronery? :D

Taf 24-04-2020 11:09
Re: Coronavirus
 
So Homeland Security is testing the virus for its characteristics in respect to how long it can remain viable in certain circumstances (temperature, humidity, UV and types of surface).

I would have expected this to have been investigated very early on so that we had an idea as to how to protect ourselves a little better?

Or were the results so scary that they don't want to tell us?

Chris 24-04-2020 11:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
1 Attachment(s)
Sky News has commissoined a wide-ranging coronavirus themed opinion poll from Yougov and the results are in. Unsurprisingly they’re not leading on the absolutely shocking approval ratings both TV and newspaper hacks have received.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-poll-11977655

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1587723552

Russ 24-04-2020 11:36
Re: Coronavirus
 
People trust Boris? :confused:

denphone 24-04-2020 11:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36032464)
People trust Boris? :confused:
Nearly every major leaders popularity in all the main countries has improved.

There was a programme on about 2 weeks ago and one of guests on there came out with view on this and he called it the rally around the flag effect which generally happens when there is a major international crisis or war.

Chris 24-04-2020 11:49
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36032464)
People trust Boris? :confused:
He's the only senior politician with a net positive approval rating, because 51% of respondents said they positively approve of him, whereas only 39% disapproved - a net positive rating of 12.

12 is also the %age of those who were neutral on the question.

If you say you actively don't trust Boris, the stats suggest you are in a significant minority of the population. If you don't know anyone who does trust him, then that suggests your peer group isn't representative of the country as a whole.

Statistics are fun. :D

Russ 24-04-2020 12:00
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36032467)
He's the only senior politician with a net positive approval rating, because 51% of respondents said they positively approve of him, whereas only 39% disapproved - a net positive rating of 12.

12 is also the %age of those who were neutral on the question.

If you say you actively don't trust Boris, the stats suggest you are in a significant minority of the population. If you don't know anyone who does trust him, then that suggests your peer group isn't representative of the country as a whole.

Statistics are fun. :D
To start with I don't trust any politician. And I do mean any.

But especially not a proven liar who thinks people will continue to be fooled by his "loveable bumbling" gimmick.

But hell, some people must be sucked in by it. I'm glad he's making a good recovery but trust him? Never.

Maggy 24-04-2020 12:07
Re: Coronavirus
 
All politicians are untrustworthy..but some more than others. The trick is working out to what degree they are untrustworthy.

jonbxx 24-04-2020 12:31
Re: Coronavirus
 
It's the British version of the 'Rally Round the Flag Effect'. Leaders almost always become more popular in times of crisis. I would be more concerned if the net approval since this started was unchanged such as Donald Trumps right now

Chris 24-04-2020 12:59
Re: Coronavirus
 
Yes, I know about it - I also know that it is frequently used by ineffective opposition parties to excuse their failure to win elections. There are whole sections of the British Left that still think Michael Foot only lost in 1983 because of the Falklands.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:04.
Page 25 of 64 « First 1521222324 25 2627282935 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum