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-   -   Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered ! (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704414)

1andrew1 17-07-2017 21:05
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
And so the shambles continues.
Quote:
The former head of the Vote Leave campaign has branded the Brexit Secretary as “thick as mince” and “as lazy as a toad”. Dominic Cummings said David Davis’s Repeal Bill contained provisions that would allow ministers to cave into EU demands at the last minute.
Mr Cummings’s outburst reflects continuing disagreement between different wings of the Brexit movement, which saw intense infighting at the time of last year’s EU referendum.
It comes on the same day that Mr Davis made a half-day trip to Brussels to negotiate with EU officials, where he faced criticism for being pictured sitting down for talks without any notes. In the photograph, Mr Davis’s approach was in stark contrast to the European Commission negotiators, who sat with large piles of briefing papers in organised binders.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7845911.html

papa smurf 17-07-2017 21:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
wow organised binders eh

i'm having mince for tea tomorrow .

Kursk 18-07-2017 00:26
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908213)
wow organised binders eh
We know they're good at bureaucracy, one of the many reasons for getting out.

TheDaddy 18-07-2017 07:25
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908213)
wow organised binders eh

i'm having mince for tea tomorrow .
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail, or something like that. Whilst we're at it are toads particularly lazy, bit toadist if you ask me. Anyway enjoy the mince, hope it's nice and thick.

pip08456 18-07-2017 07:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
He wasn't there to negotiate though.

Quote:
Brexit secretary David Davis took part in less than an hour of discussions with the EU on the first day of substantive negotiations with Brussels before his early return to Westminster...

...Davis’s departure from Brussels came shortly after he had called for the negotiating teams to “get down to business”.

TheDaddy 18-07-2017 09:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35908236)
He wasn't there to negotiate though.
Just as well, what with him having no fancy binders, wonder if him being lazy played a part in him not negotiating to

pip08456 18-07-2017 09:17
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35908243)
Just as well, what with him having no fancy binders, wonder if him being lazy played a part in him not negotiating to
They have negotiating teams to negotiate, Politicians only attend for photoshoots!

TheDaddy 18-07-2017 09:19
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35908245)
They have negotiating teams to negotiate, Politicians only attend for photoshoots!

See lazy, Dominic shortcummings was right

papa smurf 18-07-2017 10:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35908245)
They have negotiating teams to negotiate, Politicians only attend for photoshoots!
maybe he was dictating what they are getting rather than the other way round .

or he was waiting for Badger mole and ratty to do the talking

heero_yuy 18-07-2017 13:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35907924)
It's not anti-democratic for someone to believe a democratic choice that has been made was wrong and to argue against it.
Mmm. So even though my MP got a majority I can campaign against the decision on the basis that the voters weren't given the full story and need to have another "go". Glad you like democracy in action. :rolleyes:

Ramrod 18-07-2017 13:28
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
The concensus on the Today programme on R4 this moring was that you should be prepared enough in negotiations that you don't need reams of paper and organised binders in front of you. Any more than a notebook or piece of card for notes and something is wrong with your approach.

daveeb 18-07-2017 15:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35908283)
The concensus on the Today programme on R4 this moring was that you should be prepared enough in negotiations that you don't need reams of paper and organised binders in front of you. Any more than a notebook or piece of card for notes and something is wrong with your approach.
Good luck to anyone trying to condense Brexit down to a few bullet points on a crib card. :shocked:

Ramrod 18-07-2017 16:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
No one would :confused:

daveeb 18-07-2017 17:23
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35908315)
No one would :confused:
It's not notes you need , it's information to hand. A bit like a barrister in a court case, they take in trolley loads of paperwork and Brexit is bound to be more complex than any one court case. If there was an easier way of doing things i'm sure it would be adopted by now.

papa smurf 18-07-2017 17:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35908319)
It's not notes you need , it's information to hand. A bit like a barrister in a court case, they take in trolley loads of paperwork and Brexit is bound to be more complex than any one court case. If there was an easier way of doing things i'm sure it would be adopted by now.
didn't the PDA replace trolley loads of paperwork several years ago and any one can fit one in a jacket pocket even david davis ;)

these days it's ipads and smartphones even i have a notepad app

Microsoft Word Document

200 words in a one page Microsoft word doc = 8KB
That = 128 pages in 1MB (1,024 divided by 8)
That = 131,072 pages in 1GB (1,024 times 128)

roughly 130,000 Word pages per 1GB of memory.

daveeb 18-07-2017 18:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908320)
didn't the PDA replace trolley loads of paperwork several years ago and any one can fit one in a jacket pocket even david davis ;)

these days it's ipads and smartphones even i have a notepad app

Microsoft Word Document

200 words in a one page Microsoft word doc = 8KB
That = 128 pages in 1MB (1,024 divided by 8)
That = 131,072 pages in 1GB (1,024 times 128)

roughly 130,000 Word pages per 1GB of memory.
I bet he forgot his usb charger in that case :dozey:

denphone 18-07-2017 20:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35907924)
It's not anti-democratic for someone to believe a democratic choice that has been made was wrong and to argue against it.
It is on here.;)

daveeb 18-07-2017 20:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35908349)
It is on here.;)
:D:D

1andrew1 18-07-2017 21:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35908349)
It is on here.;)
:D:D

Lol, true!

Damien, get with the programme or you'll be sent on holiday with Mr K!

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35907875)
Stupid statement. Get over yourself Andrew. Of course Brexit will honour any fair and accurate bill.
Not sure they read your words of wisdom, sir.
Quote:
EU diplomats have hit out at Britain’s failure to agree it must pay a hefty financial settlement for Brexit, suggesting the controversy will “stall” the talks.
The second round of the negotiations appeared to have run into trouble within 24 hours of resuming in Brussels, over the vexed issue of the so-called “divorce bill”
Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, was preparing to tell the British side that the negotiations served little purpose until Britain engaged seriously with the issue of payments.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7847641.html

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908320)
didn't the PDA replace trolley loads of paperwork several years ago and any one can fit one in a jacket pocket even david davis ;)

these days it's ipads and smartphones even i have a notepad app

Microsoft Word Document

200 words in a one page Microsoft word doc = 8KB
That = 128 pages in 1MB (1,024 divided by 8)
That = 131,072 pages in 1GB (1,024 times 128)

roughly 130,000 Word pages per 1GB of memory.
You might think so but in 2017, for easy reference hard copy is king in court and other meetings. No one wants to tell the judge to hang on as the wifi's playing up! :D How many words in a megabyte doesn't cut the mustard.

passingbat 18-07-2017 21:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35908355)



Not sure they read your words of wisdom, sir.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7847641.html

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------


Quote:
a hefty financial settlement for Brexit, suggesting the controversy will “stall” the talks.

Have the EU given proof that the hefty amount they are demanding is a justified and accurate amount? They need to produce the figures justifying the amount.

1andrew1 18-07-2017 21:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35908364)
---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------





Have the EU given proof that the hefty amount they are demanding is a justified and accurate amount? They need to produce the figures justifying the amount.
It's in those folders. :D
Clock ticking.

jonbxx 19-07-2017 09:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35908245)
They have negotiating teams to negotiate, Politicians only attend for photoshoots!
Unelected bureaucrats!!!

OLD BOY 20-07-2017 16:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35908299)
Good luck to anyone trying to condense Brexit down to a few bullet points on a crib card. :shocked:
It's quite easy if you plan to leave with no deal.

papa smurf 20-07-2017 17:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
There’ll be an ‘EXPLOSION’ Barnier warns of EU meltdown if Britain doesn't pay Brexit bill

In comments likely to provide a boost to British officials the bloc’s chief negotiator warned there would be total chaos across the continent with thousands of publicly financed programmes having to be scaled down or scrapped.

The Frenchman’s candid remarks came in newly published transcripts of evidence he gave before the House of Lords EU Committee, which grilled him during at a special meeting convened in the Belgian capital last week.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...y-divorce-bill :cleader:

Osem 21-07-2017 11:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908611)
There’ll be an ‘EXPLOSION’ Barnier warns of EU meltdown if Britain doesn't pay Brexit bill

In comments likely to provide a boost to British officials the bloc’s chief negotiator warned there would be total chaos across the continent with thousands of publicly financed programmes having to be scaled down or scrapped.

The Frenchman’s candid remarks came in newly published transcripts of evidence he gave before the House of Lords EU Committee, which grilled him during at a special meeting convened in the Belgian capital last week.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...y-divorce-bill :cleader:
Maybe they should have thought about all that when David Cameron tried to reason with them before the referendum and was told to do one. Typical EU arrogance and intransigence.

1andrew1 30-07-2017 13:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Interesting thought piece on a UK-US trade deal from Sky News. My thought is that Trump may not be around when we leave the EU!
Quote:
The US president sees the world as a zero sum game. He wins, others lose.
Of course, in the world of "Yes, but", there are those who will say he has a soft spot for the UK because his mother was Scottish and he has a golf course there.
But he used to like Jeff Sessions as well.
The man he called "a great guy", "the gold standard", "a man of integrity, a man of principle and a man of total, utter resolve" became the man, appointed as Attorney-General by him, who he subjected to the most remarkable presidential bullying.
So, Trump's your best mate until it is not in his interest.
And what is Trump's priority from any trade deals anyway?
He campaigned - and won the election - on among other things, creating jobs for American workers. He continues to rail against countries he believes have been ripping off the US over trade for years.
Why should we think he will suddenly sign off the sort of win-win he doesn't believe exists?
A couple of weeks ago Trump told the world that his favourite word is "reciprocity". We haven't yet seen the evidence that he also likes the concept.
And all of this assumes we can take any Trump statement at face value. Not long ago, the New York Times filled a full broadsheet page with tiny print of what they referred to as "Trump's Lies".
Dismiss that as the failing/fake/mainstream media as you will, and as Trump's supporters do, but there has been enough contradiction in his tweets to make us all wonder what he actually does believe.
http://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-...teers-10967076

Mick 31-07-2017 13:35
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
BREAKING: Free movement of people to end March 2019 : On Sky News: Link to follow.

http://news.sky.com/story/free-movem...-says-10968663

Damien 31-07-2017 13:49
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Still not clear what that entails.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40774251

Quote:
But amid claims of splits in cabinet, No 10 has moved to make clear free movement will end when the UK leaves.

It said: "It would be wrong to suggest it... will continue as it is now."
Downing Street's move followed days of uncertainty over future immigration policy during any transitional phase after Brexit.

The PM's spokesman said plans for a registration system for migrants arriving after March 2019 had been set out last week, and Prime Minister Theresa May had raised, as long ago as January, the prospect of a transition period before the post-Brexit system was implemented.
It won't continue 'as it is now' but will it stop? Many EU countries already have a registration system that is compatible with freedom of movement. Is that all we're talking about? Or are they going to demand applications for Visas?

papa smurf 31-07-2017 14:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35910009)
Still not clear what that entails.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40774251



It won't continue 'as it is now' but will it stop? Many EU countries already have a registration system that is compatible with freedom of movement. Is that all we're talking about? Or are they going to demand applications for Visas?
we won't be an EU country i would say stop means stop not soft stop etc....

1andrew1 31-07-2017 20:11
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Interesting analysis of which regions will suffer least from Brexit - those that voted leave.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/0...t-from-brexit/

Also some good industry analysis here on page 5.
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit10.pdf

Mr K 31-07-2017 20:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910007)
BREAKING: Free movement of people to end March 2019 : On Sky News: Link to follow.

http://news.sky.com/story/free-movem...-says-10968663
BREAKING: this Govt. doesn't agree with itself and doesn't have a clue what Brexit will mean. ( Sorry, that's not 'breaking' its the same old news, from the same old divided party...:rolleyes:)

Mick 31-07-2017 20:41
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910113)
Interesting analysis of which regions will suffer least from Brexit - those that voted leave.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/0...t-from-brexit/

Also some good industry analysis here on page 5.
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit10.pdf
No it's not interesting Andrew. It's yet another blog. That's why I have no intentions of clicking the link. Wonder if the other brexiteers will bother too. #StillNoRegets

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35910121)
BREAKING: this Govt. doesn't agree with itself and doesn't have a clue what Brexit will mean. ( Sorry, that's not 'breaking' its the same old news, from the same old divided party...:rolleyes:)
Haha. Bollocks.

But you believe that if it makes you feel better. :rolleyes:

Freedom of movement is ending. As it should. Fantastic news. The brexit I and 17.4 Million others voted for. Because leave means leave.

Mr K 31-07-2017 20:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910122)
No it's not interesting Andrew. It's yet another blog. That's why I have no intentions of clicking the link. Wonder if the other brexiteers will bother too. #StillNoRegets
#headinthesand

Mick 31-07-2017 20:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35910126)
#headinthesand
Yes I knows yours is. You did not need to confirm it. :dozey:

1andrew1 31-07-2017 21:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910122)
No it's not interesting Andrew. It's yet another blog. That's why I have no intentions of clicking the link. Wonder if the other brexiteers will bother too. #StillNoRegets
It's an academic study, it's not a Tweet or YouTube from Trump, Farage or Corbyn so I appreciate it may not appeal to everyone on the forum.

papa smurf 31-07-2017 21:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7PuSl7AbUo

1andrew1 31-07-2017 21:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35910121)
BREAKING: this Govt. doesn't agree with itself and doesn't have a clue what Brexit will mean. ( Sorry, that's not 'breaking' its the same old news, from the same old divided party...:rolleyes:)
Lol. The Cabinet is totally divided on this issue. I genuinely thought that when Theresa May went on holiday they'd sorted out things like adults but there's almost more agreement between you and Mick than there is between Liam Fox and Philip Hammond! ;)
The only saving grace for Theresa May is that the Labour Party is pretty divided on the issue too and Who? kip sorry Ukip are a spent force. And the LibDems are still recovering from a poor leader.

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35910137)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y323GrCsN_Y

Osem 02-08-2017 12:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Deutsche Bank has reaffirmed its commitment to the City, despite saying just weeks ago that it would “inevitably” move jobs to Frankfurt, after Land Securities Group (Landsec) confirmed today that the lease agreement for Deutsche's new London headquarters would go ahead.

Deutsche announced in March it had agreed a pre-let deal with landlord Landsec, as the pair have “worked closely” to design a 564,000 square foot building. By comparison, 20 Fenchurch Street (The Walkie Talkie) has 690,000 square feet of office space while 30 St Mary Axe (The Gherkin) has around 500,000 square feet.

Read more: The Walkie Talkie has been sold for £1.3bn to a herbal medicine maker

The German bank will retain flexibility over how much space it will occupy, but has committed to take at least 469,000 square feet on a 25-year lease.
http://www.cityam.com/269491/deutsch...ent-city-signs

Mick 02-08-2017 13:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
I see those spiteful old pricks in the EU have introduced tighter controls at the borders for Non-Schengen States. Big queues being reported for British passport holders. My advice, the World is a big place.

All this meant to curb terrorism, absolute bollocks. :rolleyes:

Osem 02-08-2017 18:00
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
As long as they're tightening up checks on who leaves the Schengen zone to come here I don't mind to be honest. All sorts of terrorists and criminals have enjoyed far too much freedom of movement thanks to EU ideology.

papa smurf 02-08-2017 18:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
no passport required here in cleethorpes for British holiday makers :)

booK early or all the best caravans will be gone ;)

OLD BOY 02-08-2017 19:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35910440)
no passport required here in cleethorpes for British holiday makers :)

booK early or all the best caravans will be gone ;)
Let us know when it stops raining.

This is no holiday in my book.

Damien 02-08-2017 20:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910371)
I see those spiteful old pricks in the EU have introduced tighter controls at the borders for Non-Schengen States. Big queues being reported for British passport holders. My advice, the World is a big place.

All this meant to curb terrorism, absolute bollocks. :rolleyes:
It's for other members not in Schengen as well (basically Ireland). It's stricter border controls because terrorists were using fake EU passports wasn't it? At least we can still use the EU border gates rather than 'rest of the world'. I think the Mail are trolling to complain it's harder to get into Europe. Wait until we're out :rolleyes:

1andrew1 02-08-2017 20:24
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910371)
I see those spiteful old pricks in the EU have introduced tighter controls at the borders for Non-Schengen States. Big queues being reported for British passport holders. My advice, the World is a big place.

All this meant to curb terrorism, absolute bollocks. :rolleyes:
This makes us safer and saves innocent lives so no bad thing in my book. Yes, a few spoilt snowflakes will have undoubtedly moaned to the Express about the extra airport time but a few minutes' delay in this world is better than a premature arrival in the next.
Where is easier to travel to overseas outside the EU now even with these enhanced anti-terror measures in place?

Mick 02-08-2017 20:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35910463)
It's for other members not in Schengen as well (basically Ireland). It's stricter until border controls because terrorists were using fake EU passports wasn't it? At least we can still use the EU border gates rather than 'rest of the world'. I think the Mail are trolling to complain it's harder to get into Europe. Wait until we're out :rolleyes:
Not sure why you mention the Mail, I did not get the news from there.

I did say this affects Non-Schengen areas, that in my post you quoted and as I understand this, no we cannot use the EU border gates now because of this new rule.

I have no need to wait until we are out, I have no desire to visit any where in Europe any time soon. This won't bother me in the slightest. I'm simply highlighting how spiteful the EU is getting, these checks were not meant to start until October.

1andrew1 02-08-2017 20:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35910456)
Let us know when it stops raining.

This is no holiday in my book.
You can't beat Blighty in good weather. We may not have it at the moment but give the country a week and it'll come right.

Damien 02-08-2017 20:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910470)
Not sure why you mention the Mail, I did not get the news from there.
No, I just thought their headline was trolling generally.

Quote:
I did say this affects Non-Schengen areas, that in my post you quoted and as I understand this, no we cannot use the EU border gates now because of this new rule.
Pretty sure you can, otherwise what would be the point of them? The stronger checks are still at EU gates. Can we really not use them?

tbh I went a month or two ago and the passport control at Eurostar was already much longer than other times. At lot of this might just be that plus the massive load of tourists now the summer holidays have started.

Quote:
I have no need to wait until we are out, I have no desire to visit any where in Europe any time soon. This won't bother me in the slightest.
You should go, Brexit or not, Europe is a pretty amazing continent and we're right here.

pip08456 02-08-2017 20:43
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910469)
This makes us safer and saves innocent lives so no bad thing in my book. Yes, a few spoilt snowflakes will have undoubtedly moaned to the Express about the extra airport time but a few minutes' delay in this world is better than a premature arrival in the next.
Where is easier to travel to overseas outside the EU now even with these enhanced anti-terror measures in place?
How does it make us safer? We don't live in the Schengen area.

Damien 02-08-2017 20:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35910478)
How does it make us safer? We don't live in the Schengen area.
Harder to get to Calais.

1andrew1 02-08-2017 23:11
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35910364)
Sadly, still looks like some lost UK jobs and taxes.
Quote:
Deutsche Bank’s most likely Brexit scenario foresees shifting about 4,000 jobs to continental Europe from the UK over several years, according to those briefed on the planning.
The bank will transfer most of the positions to Frankfurt and Berlin when the UK quits the European Union, the source discussing internal planning said, who asked not to be identified.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7872156.html

pip08456 02-08-2017 23:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35910479)
Harder to get to Calais.
I don't want to go to Calais.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910506)
Sadly, still looks like some lost UK jobs and taxes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7872156.html
I have all the sympathy in the world for those that work in investment banking!

papa smurf 03-08-2017 08:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35910508)
I don't want to go to Calais.

word

I have all the sympathy in the world for those that work in investment banking!
door ass way out.. they know the drill

OLD BOY 03-08-2017 16:43
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910506)
Sadly, still looks like some lost UK jobs and taxes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7872156.html
What about the new jobs? What about the increased trade with the rest of the world?

papa smurf 03-08-2017 16:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35910623)
What about the new jobs? What about the increased trade with the rest of the world?
it is andrew your talking to he only does negative ;)

OLD BOY 03-08-2017 16:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910471)
You can't beat Blighty in good weather. We may not have it at the moment but give the country a week and it'll come right.
Good luck with that prediction. You do know it's August, right, and the kids are on holiday?

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35910508)
I don't want to go to Calais.
:rofl:

Osem 04-08-2017 13:24
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35910623)
What about the new jobs? What about the increased trade with the rest of the world?
They and that don't matter. For some people nothing will compensate for leaving the EU. The UK could be twice as well off with half the unemployment and they'd still only find something negative to say about Brexit. Thankfully the referendum proved they're in the minority however.

1andrew1 04-08-2017 21:07
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
I would describe myself as positive yet realistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35910625)
it is andrew your talking to he only does negative ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910471)
You can't beat Blighty in good weather. We may not have it at the moment but give the country a week and it'll come right.

Mick 05-08-2017 13:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35910826)
I would describe myself as positive yet realistic.
You positive, about Brexit? :rofl:

Mr K 05-08-2017 14:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910896)
You positive, about Brexit? :rofl:
I would say Andrew gives a balanced view and has presented both pros and cons of Brexit. It's unusual for posters on here !

ianch99 05-08-2017 14:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35910902)
I would say Andrew gives a balanced view and has presented both pros and cons of Brexit. It's unusual for posters on here !
Totally agree. He can't help it if there are more cons than pros.

daveeb 05-08-2017 14:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35910902)
I would say Andrew gives a balanced view and has presented both pros and cons of Brexit. It's unusual for posters on here !
Agreed, Andrew shows far more objectivity than most on here and manages to rise above the name calling.

Mick 05-08-2017 15:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35910907)
Agreed, Andrew shows far more objectivity than most on here and manages to rise above the name calling.
What name calling? You must be reading the wrong forum.

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35910906)
Totally agree. He can't help it if there are more cons than pros.
You have no idea how many cons and pros there will be. I am sure everyone knows there will be 'some' issues but is is a price worth paying than staying in a failing entity, which is what it is.

Big con staying in a place that is not economically balanced, only 10 countries making net contributions out of 28?

Soon to be 27 or even 26, as there is big tensions between Poland and the EU at the moment, Polexit is looking like a certainty. ;)

The other pathetic issue is, Jean-Claude Juncker was hinting at the possibility of still allowing Turkey to join the EU, which is showing their desperation given how Turkey's President now has more dictatorial powers, which is totally against EU membership criteria. :rolleyes:

Osem 05-08-2017 19:29
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910910)
What name calling? You must be reading the wrong forum.

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------



You have no idea how many cons and pros there will be. I am sure everyone knows there will be 'some' issues but is is a price worth paying than staying in a failing entity, which is what it is.

Big con staying in a place that is not economically balanced, only 10 countries making net contributions out of 28?

Soon to be 27 or even 26, as there is big tensions between Poland and the EU at the moment, Polexit is looking like a certainty. ;)

The other pathetic issue is, Jean-Claude Juncker was hinting at the possibility of still allowing Turkey to join the EU, which is showing their desperation given how Turkey's President now has more dictatorial powers, which is totally against EU membership criteria. :rolleyes:
Some won't admit there will be any possible 'pros' resulting from Brexit. They just peddle the 'life outside the EU will be dire' line endlessly. The rest of us know there will be gains and losses and the extent of these will be determined by the EU's intransigence since they're the ones making all the pre-trade talks demands.

ianch99 05-08-2017 23:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35910945)
Some won't admit there will be any possible 'pros' resulting from Brexit. They just peddle the 'life outside the EU will be dire' line endlessly. The rest of us know there will be gains and losses and the extent of these will be determined by the EU's intransigence since they're the ones making all the pre-trade talks demands.
Another blinkered response to add to the pile. If you had read the post you would have seen that it said pros and cons :dunce:

Mr K 06-08-2017 09:11
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Lib Dem leader claims older voters with views coloured by nostalgia for an imperial past have ‘shafted’ younger pro-EU generation
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

No great fan of the old duffer, but don't think I've ever agreed with a politician more. God help our kids as we really have messed it up for them. At least we've given them a nice ever warming climate... :rolleyes:

Mr K 06-08-2017 09:11
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Oh and a decent health service with no staff...
Quote:
Janet Davies, chief executive of the nurses' union, said some EU workers were already leaving and hospitals would not be able to cope if significant numbers followed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/he...-a7879056.html

1andrew1 06-08-2017 09:49
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35910293)
I cannot believe you are still peddling this BS. Change the record FFS. :rolleyes:
Not BS. In fact, Alan Sugar - is now calling for Boris and Gove to have a criminal record for their lies
Quote:
Lord Sugar, a former Labour peer who now sits with no party, said the pair should “100 per cent absolutely be thrown in jail for claiming the NHS would be £350 million richer if Britain left the EU.
“I mean, absolutely. Or at least they should have a criminal record,” he told BBC Radio 5 Live’s Emma Barnett show when asked whether the Tory ministers should be imprisoned.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7877601.html

---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35910861)
Agreed: the Tories talked about reintroduction in their party manifesto but of course it would be conditional on the free parliamentary vote.
Mick, can you agree with this?

Mick 06-08-2017 09:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35911001)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

No great fan of the old duffer, but don't think I've ever agreed with a politician more. God help our kids as we really have messed it up for them. At least we've given them a nice ever warming climate... :rolleyes:
First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?

Stop taking the piss, remember Glastonbury Music Festival, where Corbyn preaching about saving the Earth, to these kids, blah blah?

Remember the scene after the event. Rubbish left everywhere by these caring kids you speak of.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gl...-a3572861.html

Quote:
Clean-up teams have begun the mammoth task of clearing the heaps of filth and rubbish left by revellers after Glastonbury Festival.

Worthy Farm was once again left looking like a dump with tonnes of litter strewn across muddy fields and the site’s 15,000 bins overflowing with waste.

Despite organisers urging the 200,000 festival-goers to pack up and take their tents home, many campers left them scattered across the West Country farm.

On Monday, litter pickers were seen collecting leftover drink cans, bottles and food waste from the ground in front of the Pyramid stage after a weekend of non-stop trampling by thousands of fans.
Yeah sure, the young care about the environment. The pictures taken after the event, showing the rubbish strewn all over the place, left by the young, show this is total bollocks. :rolleyes:

Secondly, no, the old people have not messed up anything for the young at all. The EU is a failing pile of garbage. #StillNoRegrets

1andrew1 06-08-2017 10:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911016)
First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?

Stop taking the piss, remember Glastonbury Music Festival, where Corbyn preaching about saving the Earth, to these kids, blah blah?

Remember the scene after the event. Rubbish left everywhere by these caring kids you speak of.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gl...-a3572861.html

Yeah sure, the young care about the environment. The pictures taken after the event, showing the rubbish strewn all over the place, left by the young, show this is total bollocks. :rolleyes:

Secondly, no, the old people have not messed up anything for the young at all. The EU is a failing pile of garbage. #StillNoRegrets
Where has Mr K said anything about kids caring for the environment? That statement's not just a straw man it's a Wicker Man

More rumours on the size of the settlement bill. This time round, it's looking like about four years' net contributions. For balance, I present another source denying the rumour.

Quote:
Britain is prepared to pay up to £36 billion to the EU to settle the so-called Brexit divorce bill, The Telegraph can reveal.

Senior Whitehall officials have concluded that such an offer - the first time a precise figure has been proposed - is the only way to break the current deadlock in negotiations.
However, the UK will only agree to pay the sum - equivalent to €40 billion - it if the EU agrees to negotiate the financial settlement as part of a deal on future relations, including a trade deal.
There separate sources in Whitehall and government with knowledge of the UK’s negotiating strategy confirmed the figure, dismissing previous reports that Theresa May would agree to a £50bn bill as “too high”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...u-talks-trade/

Quote:
However, a senior government source told Sky News that the report was "not correct at all".
They said they had "no idea" where the speculation had come from.
http://news.sky.com/story/uk-prepare...ports-10976372

Mick 06-08-2017 10:25
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911021)
Where has Mr K said anything about kids caring for the environment?
Open your eyes Andrew.

Mr K, said at the end of the post in question, about us giving the young a nicer warmer climate, insinuating that the old don't care about the climate changes and the environment. I just demonstrated this to be total nonsense. :rolleyes:

And what's this silly obsession with calling every other post that you don't agree with, a 'straw man argument' ?

1andrew1 06-08-2017 10:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911026)
Open your eyes Andrew.

Mr K, said at the end of the post in question, about us giving the young a nicer warmer climate, insinuating that the old don't care about the climate changes and the environment. I just demonstrated this to be total nonsense. :rolleyes:

And what's this silly obsession with calling every other post that you don't agree with, a 'straw man argument' ?
Mr K said sarcastically "At least we've given them a nice ever warming climate..." suggesting that we've contributed to global warming.

Your reply to him says "First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?" and then go on to criticise them for littering Glastonbury.

Mr K has never said that the so-called kids have cared about the environment. You make this argument yourself then proceed to pull it apart. That's the definition of a straw man argument.

Mick 06-08-2017 10:44
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911009)
Not BS. In fact, Alan Sugar - is now calling for Boris and Gove to have a criminal record for their lies

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7877601.html
Sigh, for the 5464464646th time, they did not tell lies, they did not make any promises, it was a suggestion, "Let's give" is totally different to "We will give".

You remainers clutch at the slightest detail because it still bothers you why the remain side lost.

And suggesting we lock up MPs for telling porkies. The House of Commons chamber would be practically empty if we were to listen to Sugar. :rolleyes:

1andrew1 06-08-2017 10:51
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911032)
Sigh, for the 5464464646th time, they did not tell lies, they did not make any promises, it was a suggestion, "Let's give" is totally different to "We will give".

You remainers clutch at the slightest detail because it still bothers you why the remain side lost.

And suggesting we lock up MPs for telling porkies. The House of Commons chamber would be practically empty if we were to listen to Sugar. :rolleyes:
You're skipping the first line of the statement, which was the lie. We do not send £350m to Brussels every week, it's under £250 million a week. https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

Mick 06-08-2017 11:00
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911034)
You're skipping the first line of the statement, which was the lie. We do not send £350m to Brussels every week, it's under £250 million a week. https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/
I'm not skipping anything.

I'm well aware of the true figure. But it still was not a promise.

1andrew1 06-08-2017 11:03
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911037)
I'm not skipping anything.

I'm well aware of the true figure. But it still was not a promise.
It was not a promise, it was a lie as we don't send that amount to Brussels.

ianch99 06-08-2017 11:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Vince Cable accurately sums up the attitude of a significant numbers of (older) Leavers:

Vince Cable: Young 'shafted' over Brexit

Quote:
Older people who voted for Brexit have "comprehensively shafted the young", Sir Vince Cable has said.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, the Lib Dem leader accused the over-65s of being "self-declared martyrs" who claim leaving the EU is worth the cost.

"The martyrdom of the old comes cheap," he said, as fewer have jobs to lose and living standards are protected by the triple lock on pensions.

"For the Brexit martyrs, paradise beckons," he added.

Quoting statistics that 64% of over-65s voted for Brexit - compared with 71% of under-25s who voted Remain - Sir Vince said he was "struck by the heavily Remain sentiment in colleges and schools, and the heavily Brexit mood of church-hall meetings packed with retired people" during the referendum campaign.

He claimed that austerity measures had largely affected the working population, with pensioners suffering "relatively little" after the financial crisis.

Young people, he said, have the added problems of "prohibitive housing costs, growing job insecurity and limited career progression".

"The old have comprehensively shafted the young," added Sir Vince. "And the old have had the last word about Brexit, imposing a world view coloured by nostalgia for an imperial past on a younger generation much more comfortable with modern Europe."
I liked his last remark :)

Quote:
"At this rate, we will have Brexit thought crimes before long," said Sir Vince.

Mick 06-08-2017 11:18
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911038)
It was not a promise, it was a lie as we don't send that amount to Brussels.
You keep telling yourself this. I don't agree that any lie was given. I accept that the figure was clearly incorrect because it did not take into account regarding reductions for rebates & benefits. But I do not accept a lie was made.

And in any sense, it did not help me to sway my vote to leave the failing corrupt entity.

ianch99 06-08-2017 11:22
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911042)
You keep telling yourself this. I don't agree that any lie was given. I accept that the figure was clearly incorrect because it did not take into account regarding reductions for rebates & benefits. But I do not accept a lie was made.

And in any sense, it did not help me to sway my vote to leave the failing corrupt entity.
Lie: "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood"

Seems black and white to me.

Mick 06-08-2017 11:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911027)
Mr K said sarcastically "At least we've given them a nice ever warming climate..." suggesting that we've contributed to global warming.

Your reply to him says "First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?" and then go on to criticise them for littering Glastonbury.

Mr K has never said that the so-called kids have cared about the environment. You make this argument yourself then proceed to pull it apart. That's the definition of a straw man argument.
No it's not.

I stand by my post because we can't have folk like Mr K, make out that one set of specific people have caused more harm to the environment and then the young are suppose to be not part of this cause ?

Utter rubbish, literally.

Mick 06-08-2017 11:33
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35911043)
Lie: "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood"

Seems black and white to me.
Yes, the definition of the word 'Lie', is black and white, no argument regarding the semantics.

But I don't agree it applied to the 'suggestion' Boris and Gove made.

Nor do I agree with Lord Sugar's assertion that criminal records have to be issued. It's remainers desperation and clutching at straws because they struggle to accept, they lost.

1andrew1 06-08-2017 11:43
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911048)
Yes, the definition of the word 'Lie', is black and white, no argument regarding the semantics.

But I don't agree it applied to the 'suggestion' Boris and Gove made.

Nor do I agree with Lord Sugar's assertion that criminal records have to issued. It's remainers desperation and clutching at straws because they struggle to accept, they lost.
The obvious lie resides in the first sentence. It was a lie to say we send £350m a week to the EU when the true figure is £250m or less. This was exasperated by their not correcting it when told. You accept that £350m was wrong "I'm well aware of the true figure" which implies you accept the £350m was a lie.
As to the suggestion that it go instead t the NHS, some marketing materials painted this as a suggestion, some painted it as an explicit promise. The more centrally-controlled the promotional materials, the vaguer the promise!

1andrew1 06-08-2017 11:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911045)
No it's not.

I stand by my post because we can't have folk like Mr K, make out that one set of specific people have caused more harm to the environment and then the young are suppose to be not part of this cause ?

Utter rubbish, literally.
Mr K has not talked about rubbish. He's talked about us leaving a legacy of global warming to future generations and that is correct.

He's also not said one set of people has done more harm to the environment than another set.

Mick 06-08-2017 11:50
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911056)
Mr K has not talked about rubbish. He's talked about us leaving a legacy of global warming to future generations and that is correct.

He's also not said one set of people has done more harm to the environment than another set.
No but he insinuated it. I still stand by my post!

1andrew1 06-08-2017 12:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911057)
No but he insinuated it. I still stand by my post!
Whilst I can't read any insinuation into his words whatsoever, the only person who can say for sure is the man himself who doubtless has better things to do on a sunny Sunday then spend it on a forum with the likes of you and me. :)

daveeb 06-08-2017 12:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911016)
First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?

Stop taking the piss, remember Glastonbury Music Festival, where Corbyn preaching about saving the Earth, to these kids, blah blah?

Remember the scene after the event. Rubbish left everywhere by these caring kids you speak of.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gl...-a3572861.html



Yeah sure, the young care about the environment. The pictures taken after the event, showing the rubbish strewn all over the place, left by the young, show this is total bollocks. :rolleyes:

Secondly, no, the old people have not messed up anything for the young at all. The EU is a failing pile of garbage. #StillNoRegrets
How can you leave a site with 200,000 people attending without a serious footprint afterwards. The fact that 15000 bins were overflowing suggests the organisers need to supply more bins. I'll bet if there had been 200,000 friends of the earth there you'd still get a load of mess, it's inevitable wherever there are large groups of people. At least it was relatively easy to clean the damage up afterwards.

Mick 06-08-2017 13:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35911061)
How can you leave a site with 200,000 people attending without a serious footprint afterwards. The fact that 15000 bins were overflowing suggests the organisers need to supply more bins. I'll bet if there had been 200,000 friends of the earth there you'd still get a load of mess, it's inevitable wherever there are large groups of people. At least it was relatively easy to clean the damage up afterwards.
I do not call a £785,000 clean up bill, 'easy'.

Event Organisers to event guests: "Please take home your tents."

Guests to other guest friends: "Leave the tent and all the other crap just strewn about, the bins are full, but we cannot be arsed to clean up our own waste and place it in bags or carrier bags and take it home, you know, just to help out and still be friendly to the Earth." :rolleyes:

RizzyKing 06-08-2017 13:39
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Are we still seriously discussing the damn bus it's not as though there weren't plenty of lies on both sides during the referendum campaign this obsession by some on the bus i guess allows them to ignore the lies remain spread during the campaign. Until i read about it here i didn't even know about the bus so it certainly didn't influence my vote and none of those i know that voted leave were influenced by a slogan on a bus. Both sides ran an utterly abysmal campaign there is no high ground to be taken by either side in relation to the campaigns and the only ones that suffered were those who were not already certain how they would vote as no real information was readily available for them from the campaigns.

nomadking 06-08-2017 14:20
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
The £350m figure wasn't correct, it is more.
Quote:
The figures, from the UK's current account published by the Office for National Statistics, say that, before the application of the rebate, the UK's gross contribution was £19.6bn a year - about £376m a week.

1andrew1 06-08-2017 14:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35911077)
The £350m figure wasn't correct, it is more.
The weekly amount sent to Brussels is always after the rebate. It's less than £250m and therefore less than £376m. ;)
That's why I posted that fact-checking link to help us all be on the same page.

nomadking 06-08-2017 15:05
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35911082)
The weekly amount sent to Brussels is always after the rebate. It's less than £250m and therefore less than £376m. ;)
That's why I posted that fact-checking link to help us all be on the same page.
1) It took several years to get the rebate, so all that time there was no rebate,
2) The rebate is far from guaranteed and if we had voted to stay it would almost have certainly been stopped. It had already been reduced.
Either way it is a TRUE reflection of what we have had to pay in the past, what they want us to pay, and what we would have to pay in the near future if we stayed.
Quote:
The level of the UK rebate is decided every seven years, as part of the EU's long-term budget, the Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF), which is negotiated by the EU leaders. The long-term budget determines EU spending levels and priorities and it has to be approved unanimously by all 28 EU leaders.
IE if just one EU country disagrees with the rebate, then no rebate at all.
Quote:
Tony Blair last night brokered an agreement on the EU budget which will see Britain give up £7bn of the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher more than 20 years ago as part of a broad deal to pay the bill for Europe's enlargement to the east.

ianch99 06-08-2017 16:10
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
1 Attachment(s)
Saw this in the Times a few days ago, interesting perpsective on immigration:

Attachment 27045

ianch99 06-08-2017 16:16
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35911084)
1) It took several years to get the rebate, so all that time there was no rebate,
2) The rebate is far from guaranteed and if we had voted to stay it would almost have certainly been stopped. It had already been reduced.
Either way it is a TRUE reflection of what we have had to pay in the past, what they want us to pay, and what we would have to pay in the near future if we stayed.
IE if just one EU country disagrees with the rebate, then no rebate at all.
Your reply gives the impression that the UK rebate can be taken away without our say so. You forgot the minor point that the UK has a veto over the process that would scrap or reduce it. The EU leaders are required to approve the MFF unanimously.

See: Reality Check: How vulnerable is the UK's rebate?

daveeb 06-08-2017 16:28
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911065)
I do not call a £785,000 clean up bill, 'easy'.

Event Organisers to event guests: "Please take home your tents."

Guests to other guest friends: "Leave the tent and all the other crap just strewn about, the bins are full, but we cannot be arsed to clean up our own waste and place it in bags or carrier bags and take it home, you know, just to help out and still be friendly to the Earth." :rolleyes:
I'm sure the cleanup bill is factored into the hefty admission charge. As for who caused the mess, how can you be sure it was labour voting youngsters who caused it all ? I'm sure there are slobs in all subsets of those attending.

As for the point about the clean up I suggested it was relatively easy, i.e. in comparison with fixing global pollution.

Mick 06-08-2017 17:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35911094)
I'm sure the cleanup bill is factored into the hefty admission charge. As for who caused the mess, how can you be sure it was labour voting youngsters who caused it all ? I'm sure there are slobs in all subsets of those attending.

As for the point about the clean up I suggested it was relatively easy, i.e. in comparison with fixing global pollution.
I'm slightly perplexed. Nowhere have I said or accused the messy revellers, were Labour supporters ?

Damien 06-08-2017 17:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911042)
You keep telling yourself this. I don't agree that any lie was given. I accept that the figure was clearly incorrect because it did not take into account regarding reductions for rebates & benefits. But I do not accept a lie was made.

And in any sense, it did not help me to sway my vote to leave the failing corrupt entity.
To go back to my original point, this is why a law against lying in politics would be unworkable. Politicians rarely outright lie, there is always a way out.

Damien 06-08-2017 17:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911016)
First of all....these so called kids caring about the environment?

Stop taking the piss, remember Glastonbury Music Festival, where Corbyn preaching about saving the Earth, to these kids, blah blah?

Remember the scene after the event. Rubbish left everywhere by these caring kids you speak of.

[url]http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/glastonbury-festival-2017-mammoth-cleanup-begins-as-revellers-leave-behind-filth-and-waste-a3572861.html[/b]
'Kids' is a massive demographic (and incidentally Glastonbury trends older, 20-40 probably) and there will be people there who care about the environment to those who don't. I would suggest logic dictates it's more likely to be the latter who littered. A massive festival is always going to leave a lot of mess as well. None of this really negates that there are conscientious people, maybe skewed towards the young, who care about the environment.

Anyway Glastonbury plans for this, as any one holding a large event should, so the land would have been cleaned up before the entire organisation left the farm. I don't really see how this proves anything.

Mick 06-08-2017 17:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
It's not about proving anything. I just refute the suggestion, the older generation are the cause for a warmer climate. Every human, that walks on this Earth is accountable.

Other issue is, how we got on to this topic when climate changes, has nothing to do with Brexit.

daveeb 06-08-2017 18:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35911100)
I'm slightly perplexed. Nowhere have I said or accused the messy revellers, were Labour supporters ?
I thought earlier in the thread there was a mention of the irony of Corbyn banging on about pollution to lots of applause then the mess left by the revellers, the inference being Corbyn followers were being hypocritical. I fully accept that you didn't say that it was Labour supporters yourself.

pip08456 06-08-2017 18:15
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35911091)
Your reply gives the impression that the UK rebate can be taken away without our say so. You forgot the minor point that the UK has a veto over the process that would scrap or reduce it. The EU leaders are required to approve the MFF unanimously.

See: Reality Check: How vulnerable is the UK's rebate?
As we are leaving it's a moot point now anyway.

nomadking 06-08-2017 19:12
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35911091)
Your reply gives the impression that the UK rebate can be taken away without our say so. You forgot the minor point that the UK has a veto over the process that would scrap or reduce it. The EU leaders are required to approve the MFF unanimously.

See: Reality Check: How vulnerable is the UK's rebate?
Quote:
The level of the UK rebate is decided every seven years, as part of the EU's long-term budget, the Multiannual Financial Framework (MFF), which is negotiated by the EU leaders.
That implies it has to be agreed afresh each time. For the 2020 agreement, everybody would have to agree the UK rebate for it to continue. If anybody disagreed, the rebate would no longer apply. If it was permanent then a decision wouldn't have to be made in order for it to continue, only for it to be stopped. A decision has to be made every 7 years, therefore it has to be positively approved each time.

What would happen if a country insisted on vetoing the long-term budget? Everything would grind to a halt, therefore realistically no country can veto it. Just as you occasionally see in the US when the Federal budget isn't agreed with the threat of "Shutdown", which does actually happen.

Quote:
In 2012, the EP(European Parliament) called for the elimination of all existing correction mechanisms, including the UK rebate, adding that any new compensation schemes should be temporary in nature and based on objective economic criteria
...
In its reports on the operation of the own resources system, the European Commission has also highlighted a number of issues related to the UK rebate and the other correction mechanisms. In 2011, for example, the Commission said that the financing system was perceived as unfair by many stakeholders, with correction mechanisms playing a significant role in this perception. The Commission added that, while the UK rebate was perfectly justifiable when it was created in the 1980s (see section above on objective, origin and legal basis), the conditions underpinning it have since changed significantly (including a reduction in the share of the EU budget spent on agriculture; a smaller share of EU revenue originating from the VAT-based resource; and an increase in the relative prosperity of the UK in terms of GNI per capita).
...
In 2004 and again in 2011, the European Commission tabled proposals for reform of the own resources system.27 Both proposals included a significant overhaul of corrections, by eliminating all existing ad hoc mechanisms and introducing new provisions, to correct excessive negative budgetary balances, more in line with the principle of equal treatment. The aim was to address the above-mentioned concerns about complexity, opacity and lack of fairness that surround the existing correction mechanisms.
Austria, Germany, Holland, and Sweden also have their own system of rebates. We had an exemption to the "Social Chapter", but look what happened with the "Working Time Directive". It was forced upon us anyway. Blair relinquished part of the Rebate, so who's to say somebody else(eg Corbyn) wouldn't do the same?


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