Cable Forum - Brexit (Old)

They want us to stay with the same regulatory framework because it's in their interests economically (i.e easier trade) and politically (Ireland). Not because they are nasty.

[SEPH]: They have no business wanting us to be a vassal state. If that's what you're defending, shame on you.

Walking away from a deal because it's bad is different to walking away because they're being nasty. However I think if you are walking away from a deal you need to have a plan as to how to do better than you would with the deal. It's like threatening to quit your job if you don't get a rise, it might work but you better be prepared to actually quit and have a plan b.

And this is a problem we have since we don't have any other trade deals and when we leave the EU not only do we leave the biggest economic bloc but we also leave the other trade deals we have via them. We become a major economy without a single trade deal. We're in a weak position to walk away from the only path to one we currently have.

[SEPH]: On the No Deal point, you're quite right. But they're still nasty. Our guvmin have screwed up big time because there was a Remainer in charge who was/is incompetent anyway. But this deal, which seals us in as a vassal state cannot be right. Staying in the EU would be better.

Damien

24-11-2018 18:19

Re: Brexit

Quote:

They have no business wanting us to be a vassal state. If that's what you're defending, shame on you.

I am not 'defending' anything, I am explaining the reality of the situation. I didn't want this entire process to happen in large part because this is what I thought would occur.

1andrew1

24-11-2018 18:20

Re: Brexit

Spain-EU-UK have agreed a deal for Gibraltar.

jfman

24-11-2018 18:30

Re: Brexit

That's us sold out the Rock. Northern Ireland next.

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:26 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35972333)

I am not 'defending' anything, I am explaining the reality of the situation. I didn't want this entire process to happen in large part because this is what I thought would occur.

It's unfortunate that those who would have preferred to remain anyway are seen as somehow 'pro-EU' or 'defending' the EU.

I think there's extreme social and economic problems in this country. Extreme poverty is a reality for far too many. However, those in extreme poverty aren't in that situation because of the EU - they are because of failed UK government policies (both colours) since the 1980s. Nor will they be helped out of that situation if the economy takes a hit.

Pierre

24-11-2018 18:42

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35972336)

That's us sold out the Rock.

Need to Sean Connery in and sort the *******s out.

Quote:

It's unfortunate that those who would have preferred to remain anyway are seen as somehow 'pro-EU' or 'defending' the EU.

It’s not that, it’s the inability to move on. I voted remain. I knew if we tried to leave we’d end up in this shitstorm half in half out purgatory.

After the referendum, I believe in Democracy, although I didn’t agree with the result, I got fully on board with leaving, because I didn’t want the half in/ half out, if we’re leaving we should bloody well leave, fully and totally. That’s where i’m Coming from.

I’m either 100% in or 100% out. People may think that too binary, but I like to keep it simple.

Quote:

I think there's extreme social and economic problems in this country. Extreme poverty is a reality for far too many. However, those in extreme poverty aren't in that situation because of the EU - they are because of failed UK government policies (both colours) since the 1980s. Nor will they be helped out of that situation if the economy takes a hit.

Well now we have an opportunity to do things differently, may work, may not. Don’t know until you try.

jfman

24-11-2018 18:48

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35972341)

Need to Sean Connery in and sort the *******s out.

It’s not that, it’s the inability to move on. I voted remain. I knew if we tried to leave we’d end up in this shitstorm half in half out purgatory.

After the referendum, I believe in Democracy, although I didn’t agree with the result, I got fully on board with leaving, because I didn’t want the half in/ half out, if we’re leaving we should bloody well leave, fully and totally. That’s where i’m Coming from.

I’m either 100% in or 100% out. People may think that too binary, but I like to keep it simple.

Well now we have an opportunity to do things differently, may work, may not. Don’t know until you try.

Like an MOT certificate the referendum as a measure of democracy is a measure on one day and one day only.

It's a betrayal of democracy to deny the public the right to change their mind should they choose to do so.

Can you source any quantitative or qualitative research into how we are could become better off as a result of Brexit? Or is it totally unsourced guesswork? After all it could be "50 years" before we find out. (Jacob Rees-Mogg).

Pierre

24-11-2018 18:59

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35972342)

Like an MOT certificate the referendum as a measure of democracy is a measure on one day and one day only.

By that logic we could have General Election every day. But we don’t, we allow the incoming government time to implement their policies. Like wise as with Scottish referendum and this one it should be a once a generation. We don’t know what Brexit will be until we leave. We need to leave see what it’s like. If our kids think we screwed the pooch they can change it.

Quote:

Can you source any quantitative or qualitative research into how we are could become better off as a result of Brexit? Or is it totally unsourced guesswork? After all it could be "50 years" before we find out. (Jacob Rees-Mogg).

I don’t need to offer any. Like I say, no one can predict anything. The only way is to let it play out. 50 years may be a stretch, but certainly we should have another referendum,if indeed we needed one, for at least 30.

jfman

24-11-2018 19:10

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35972344)

We could, but it wouldn't be cost effective so up to every 5 years is deemed as valid.

There are no rules by which EU/Scottish independence or any other referendums could or should take place. We don't have a constitution, or any generally accepted practices, that could not be overcome by the political will of the people however they deem to demonstrate it.

Quote:

So sources, no facts, nothing. Simple.

Gavin78

24-11-2018 21:36

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35972336)

That's us sold out the Rock. Northern Ireland next.

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:26 ----------

It's unfortunate that those who would have preferred to remain anyway are seen as somehow 'pro-EU' or 'defending' the EU.

You mean one-upmanship on remain part regarding the EU I haven't seen anything to suggest they aren't 'pro-EU' or 'defending' the EU

1andrew1

24-11-2018 21:55

Re: Brexit

Some worrying analysis from Richard Dearlove, a former head of MI6, on the government's Brexit agreement with the EU.

Quote:

We have on occasion been willing to make favourable noises about the Common Security and Defence Policy. But in reality we have always put Nato first, relied primarily in defence on our bilateral links with the US and regarded “Five Eyes” (the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) as our crucial intelligence and security alliance.
A close examination of the “administrative agreements” and “participation criteria” suggests that when they are taken together they require full subordination of the UK to the EU defence rule book. That means the draft withdrawal document actually commits us to a European defence role without any say in its formulation, and would effectively end the UK’s successful policy of denying the European Commission the development of a military or security role.

https://www.ft.com/content/d1e17788-...8-d36339d835c0

jfman

24-11-2018 22:27

Re: Brexit

Shock horror that if we leave we can’t dictate their defence policy.

denphone

25-11-2018 05:18

Re: Brexit

May begs the public: unite behind me on Brexit deal.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-open-letter

Quote:

An increasingly desperate Theresa May on Sunday appeals to the British people to unite behind her Brexit deal as she calls on Leavers and Remainers to end hostilities and use the UK’s departure from the European Union to usher in a period of national “renewal and reconciliation”.

Good luck Mrs May as you are going to need it.

heero_yuy

25-11-2018 08:15

Re: Brexit

Only thing the public are united on is hatred of the traitress.

denphone

25-11-2018 08:23

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35972373)

Only thing the public are united on is hatred of the traitress.

What else can you expect as many politicians are full of contradictions and insincerity sadly.