Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

You really don't understand Brexit, being so overcome by bitterness.

The average Leave supporter was not fooled by any "sunny upland" spiel any more than he/she was fooled/worried by Osborne's dire warning of being £4,300 worse off per year.

The average leave supporter just wanted to get out of the EU's clutches and very obviously understood there would be a period of economic adjustment.

Admittedly it doesn't help that we have a shit PM at the moment who can't be trusted to take good economic decisions. But Covid has spannered the works somewhat and the likes of you should be supporting the UK's move forward rather than whinging on the sidelines.

Drop the personal attacks please.

I understand Brexit very well. There is no "average" Leave voter as such. Some voted for altruistic reasons, some voted uncaring of the damage it would cause because the hatred of the EU outweighed any cost, some voted the way that their favourite media outlet encouraged them to, some voted in a perverse xenophobic temper tantrum, etc.

What is clear, and will remain clear in spite of your personal attacks, is that most thought that there would be no real serious downside:

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/0...endum-and-why/

Quote:

The impact:

More than three quarters (77%) of those who voted to remain thought “the decision we make in the referendum could have disastrous consequences for us as a country if we get it wrong”.

More than two thirds (69%) of leavers, by contrast, thought the decision “might make us a bit better or worse off as a country, but there probably isn’t much in it either way”.

Just so we are clear: long term 4% loss of GBP is not "a period of economic adjustment"

Carth

28-12-2021 16:34

Re: Britain outside the EU

Lord Ashcroft didn't consult me, and I'm going to guess he also didn't consult anyone I know.

Any old fool can show results from a poll of 'choice' participants :D

Mad Max

28-12-2021 16:42

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36107241)

Lord Ashcroft didn't consult me, and I'm going to guess he also didn't consult anyone I know.

Any old fool can show results from a poll of 'choice' participants :D

Correct, whatever fits their agenda.

OLD BOY

28-12-2021 17:01

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36107240)

Drop the personal attacks please.

I understand Brexit very well. There is no "average" Leave voter as such. Some voted for altruistic reasons, some voted uncaring of the damage it would cause because the hatred of the EU outweighed any cost, some voted the way that their favourite media outlet encouraged them to, some voted in a perverse xenophobic temper tantrum, etc.

What is clear, and will remain clear in spite of your personal attacks, is that most thought that there would be no real serious downside:

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/0...endum-and-why/

Just so we are clear: long term 4% loss of GBP is not "a period of economic adjustment"

That works both ways.

Actually, as a remainer, you simply do not understand what the average Brexiteers wanted. You assume, and you assume wrong.

Most voted to control immigration, escape EU bureaucracy and regain our sovereignty. Our destiny lies in our ability to make our own laws, not to accept laws designed by a remote bureaucracy with no electoral mandate.

The difficulties we are having in the first year post Brexit are transitional, including your 4% loss of GDP. This will be recouped in bounds in future years.

ianch99

28-12-2021 17:10

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36107245)

Correct, whatever fits their agenda.

Bless

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107252)

I do not assume anything. I am informed by the information I research. I would encourage this approach.

Please no more sunlit uplands rubbish. If you have evidence, share it otherwise cease the baseless propaganda.

Mad Max

28-12-2021 17:20

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36107254)

Bless

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------

I do not assume anything. I am informed by the information I research. I would encourage this approach.

Please no more sunlit uplands rubbish. If you have evidence, share it otherwise cease the baseless propaganda.

PMSL....:D:D

Sephiroth

28-12-2021 17:40

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36107254)

First of all, I have not made any insults towards you. Just because I judge you to be whinging, and say so, does not constitute an insult. Obviously, I wouldn't want to cause you any offence.

But I do want to stick it to you on Brexit.

On the bit I highlighted, yeah yeah, yeah. You've been an arch-Remainer since day 1 of this debate and I'd bet your allegiance to the Remain cause had nothing to do with any researched information. You may even have believed the Project Fear rubbish and that isn't impressive. You mention a 4% reduction in GDP since Brexit; putting aside Covid effects, UK business now has to make the adjustments which I expect to take years. Government needs to play its part in assisting the development of manufacturing.

As we keep telling you, escaping the EU's smothering regulations and clutches is what this is all about. Not 4% of GDP which will be recovered.

1andrew1

28-12-2021 17:56

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107259)

First of all, I have not made any insults towards you. Just because I judge you to be whinging, and say so, does not constitute an insult. Obviously, I wouldn't want to cause you any offence.

I suspect "being so overcome by bitterness" can be read as an insult even if it was not intended to be so.

The 4% reduction in GDP is permanent, not a temporary matter and is on top of any reduction from Covid 19. We're choosing to erect non-tariff trade barriers with our large trading bloc in exchange for a little bit more sovereignty. These non-tariff barriers come at a cost.

OLD BOY

28-12-2021 18:04

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36107254)

The information you research appears to be from the perspective of remainers. You read what you want to read and reject opposing views.

As for sunlit uplands, you need to be patient. The transition from winter to summer is not instant.

Hugh	28-12-2021 18:09

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107263)

The information you research appears to be from the perspective of remainers. You read what you want to read and reject opposing views.

As for sunlit uplands, you need to be patient. The transition from winter to summer is not instant.

Do you mean the Poll he quoted from Lord Ashcroft, the staunch Brexiteer?

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/14742/

Sephiroth

28-12-2021 18:50

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107261)

I hope you don't find this insulting, Andrew: You're singing Ian's tune. "... for a little bit more sovereignty". 52% of the voting population bought into that. Sovereignty (not the illusory "sunny uplands").

From our sovereign position, we can build without worrying what the French will say as they try to dominate the EU in Merkel's absence.

You have no idea whether or not the 4% reduction in GDP is permanent. I'd say that the UK will eventually sail past this - with better government, of course and that's not certain.

ianch99

28-12-2021 19:31

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107259)

First of all, I have not made any insults towards you. Just because I judge you to be whinging, and say so, does not constitute an insult. Obviously, I wouldn't want to cause you any offence.

But I do want to stick it to you on Brexit.

On the bit I highlighted, yeah yeah, yeah. You've been an arch-Remainer since day 1 of this debate and I'd bet your allegiance to the Remain cause had nothing to do with any researched information. You may even have believed the Project Fear rubbish and that isn't impressive. You mention a 4% reduction in GDP since Brexit; putting aside Covid effects, UK business now has to make the adjustments which I expect to take years. Government needs to play its part in assisting the development of manufacturing.

As we keep telling you, escaping the EU's smothering regulations and clutches is what this is all about. Not 4% of GDP which will be recovered.

I really do not care why you voted for Leave. You can justify it to yourself until the cows come home. It really does not matter one iota. You can call me this name or that name, again it really does not matter. If you get your kicks doing this, great good for you.

What I care about is the damage done to the country and the poisonous legacy it has gifted our children.

---------- Post added at 19:31 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107263)

I oppose sunlit uplands hot air in the same way you rejected 'Project Fear". So, I await your submissions of the myriad Brexit benefits that surround us.

Carth

28-12-2021 19:37

Re: Britain outside the EU

Some people care enough about it, they keep telling us why we voted even though we've never been asked :D

ianch99

28-12-2021 19:39

Re: Britain outside the EU

Warning, Brexit joke ahead! Those with a sensitive disposition, please look away now

Quote:

Apparently, the first task for the newly launched James Webb telescope will be to search the universe for Brexit benefits. :)

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