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-   -   Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33703747)

Osem 07-07-2017 19:57
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by weenie (Post 35906545)
Well Taf on the plus side you have your boy's file that you can use and show to the relevant parties in the hope that they will be more understanding your daughter's needs. I really hope and pray they will be more understanding and you and your daughter this time around therefore with a bit of luck your family will not need to go through all the past stress again.

One can hope anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35906585)
Sorry to hear that Taf but i hope things will go easier for you living on benefits these days is anything but a life of leisure not only do you have to endure and adapt as best you can to your medical conditions but living with the constant stress of the assessments takes a mental toll. Can only wish you the best and hope it doesn't get too tough for you meaningless as that is practically.
Agree and now they know you have had a successful appeal I think they'll be keen to give you a fair hearing first time out. You've been through the process now so I think second time around should be easier. :tu:

RichardCoulter 07-07-2017 20:10
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35905383)
The simple fact that the ATOS / Capita "medical professionals" who carry out the very short assessments (less than an hour) are usually paramedics, physiotherapists or young nurses shows how the system is being rigged to deny applicants the aid they deserve.

At least at tribunal you get a proper time-served doctor, a disability specialist and an unbiased serving judge.

But not for long, as moves are afoot again to move everything online with DWP-paid tribunal panels.
Indeed. Too many independent tribunals are coming to the wrong decision as far as this Government is concerned.

As a result they want to scrap personal tribunals (where appellants generally do better) and remove the disability specialist.

Taf 08-07-2017 11:30
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35906595)
Agree and now they know you have had a successful appeal I think they'll be keen to give you a fair hearing first time out. You've been through the process now so I think second time around should be easier. :tu:
A FB forum is full of people who were already on PIP at the higher levels being dropped to zero points by ATOS-Capita-DWP. Some fully win at tribunal, many don't. It's a lottery loaded against claimants, with rules being changed by the DWP to ensure more failures.

OLD BOY 09-07-2017 18:02
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35906599)
Indeed. Too many independent tribunals are coming to the wrong decision as far as this Government is concerned.

As a result they want to scrap personal tribunals (where appellants generally do better) and remove the disability specialist.
H'mm. If the independent tribunals keep coming to the wrong conclusion, maybe we should be insisting on referring these to the ECJ.

Not.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35906678)
A FB forum is full of people who were already on PIP at the higher levels being dropped to zero points by ATOS-Capita-DWP. Some fully win at tribunal, many don't. It's a lottery loaded against claimants, with rules being changed by the DWP to ensure more failures.
I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.

Kursk 09-07-2017 18:41
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906886)
I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.
Absolutely 100% spot on Old Boy. However, you risk being lynched here for even expressing such a heinous suggestion. The very mention of benefit controls sends lots of people into a flat spin. Enjoy :D

papa smurf 09-07-2017 18:44
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906886)
H'mm. If the independent tribunals keep coming to the wrong conclusion, maybe we should be insisting on referring these to the ECJ.

Not.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------



I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.
theres plenty of advice how to get a good decision on here

denphone 09-07-2017 18:55
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906886)
H'mm. If the independent tribunals keep coming to the wrong conclusion, maybe we should be insisting on referring these to the ECJ.

Not.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------



I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.
Have you got proof of this wildly exaggerated statement OB?.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906886)
H'mm. If the independent tribunals keep coming to the wrong conclusion, maybe we should be insisting on referring these to the ECJ.

Not.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------



I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.
While there is a small minority that cheat the system the vast majority of claimants are genuine unless you read the usual demonising culprits of our so called media OB.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906886)
H'mm. If the independent tribunals keep coming to the wrong conclusion, maybe we should be insisting on referring these to the ECJ.

Not.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------



I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.

The problem is, that there are so many people abusing the system. The issue is how to get the balance right.

I would not wish any genuine claimant to lose out, but we do need to stop paying out taxpayer's money to those who are claiming under false pretences.
Anybody who cheats the system should have to face the full wrath of the law IMO.

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35906894)
Absolutely 100% spot on Old Boy. However, you risk being lynched here for even expressing such a heinous suggestion. The very mention of benefit controls sends lots of people into a flat spin. Enjoy :D
Nothing of the sort as we know there is a small minority that cheat the system just like other society systems but don't exaggerate it like you usually do.

Taf 09-07-2017 18:56
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906886)
I don't know whether this is the lottery some claim, or whether people are just annoyed that their benefits are being terminated.
The tribunals work to the same rules as ATOS and Capita, but they actually read all the evidence prepared by medical experts.

Unlike ATOS and Capita that make unjust decisions to keep to the DWP plan of cutting benefits for the majority.

ATOS and Capita receive funding to pay for the sourcing medical-expert evidence, but they don't do it, preferring that the claimant pays the bill.

denphone 09-07-2017 18:57
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35906895)
theres plenty of advice how to get a good decision on here
Good grief you are rather pathetic sometimes papa as l thought you being a educated man you would think before offering your wonderful considered advice..

papa smurf 09-07-2017 18:59
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35906910)
Good grief you are rather pathetic sometimes papa as l thought you being a educated man you would think before offering your wonderful considered advice..
wuhh i thought i was being helpful :(

denphone 09-07-2017 19:04
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35906911)
wuhh i thought i was being helpful :(
Not being clever myself in the vast majority of things l think you know exactly what your meaning was as yes crack down hard on those who cheat the system but don't espouse that cheating the system is widespread because it most certainly ain't..

nomadking 09-07-2017 19:13
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35906908)
The tribunals work to the same rules as ATOS and Capita, but they actually read all the evidence prepared by medical experts.

Unlike ATOS and Capita that make unjust decisions to keep to the DWP plan of cutting benefits for the majority.

ATOS and Capita receive funding to pay for the sourcing medical-expert evidence, but they don't do it, preferring that the claimant pays the bill.
For ESA reports it's part of the GPs contract and for PIP they are paid.

Quote:
There is a contractual obligation for any GP who has issued a Med3 (fit note) to provide medical reports in relation to Universal Credit or Employment and Support Allowance on an ESA113. This should be done free of charge as covered by the contractual arrangements between GPs and the relevant Primary Care Trust..
From 2013
Quote:
The PIP replaced the disability living allowance this week and GPs will be required to give details of the diagnosis, history, variability, treatment and the impact of the condition on the patients’ life, for which they will be paid £33.50 per form.

OLD BOY 09-07-2017 19:16
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35906912)
Not being clever myself in the vast majority of things l think you know exactly what your meaning was as yes crack down hard on those who cheat the system but don't espouse that cheating the system is widespread because it most certainly ain't..
Well, Den , I think you will find that the majority of people in work do think that many claims are fraudulent. This is precisely why so many people are concerned about it.

If Channel 4 and others have no difficulty in exposing these people, how on earth can you come to the conclusion that this is not a widespread problem?

I have nothing but contempt for these people, because not only is my money being used to support these people - criminals - but also, they are making untold problems for genuine claimants, who ard looked upon with suspicion.

The government needs to be one step ahead of the criminals and not let the odd mistake shake tbeir resolve.

denphone 09-07-2017 19:28
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906918)
Well, Den , I think you will find that the majority of people in work do think that many claims are fraudulent.
Facts OB and these are by the DWP.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...es-2016-17.pdf

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906918)
[B]If Channel 4 and others have no difficulty in exposing these people, how on earth can you come to the conclusion that this is not a widespread problem? [B]
Reading things in the media or watching them on TV does not make benefit cheating widespread end off...

papa smurf 09-07-2017 19:29
Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906918)
Well, Den , I think you will find that the majority of people in work do think that many claims are fraudulent. This is precisely why so many people are concerned about it.

If Channel 4 and others have no difficulty in exposing these people, how on earth can you come to the conclusion that this is not a widespread problem?

I have nothing but contempt for these people, because not only is my money being used to support these people - criminals - but also, they are making untold problems for genuine claimants, who ard looked upon with suspicion.

The government needs to be one step ahead of the criminals and not let the odd mistake shake tbeir resolve.
well it makes one wonder why so many are failing the assessment but of course it's always the wrong decision when you don't get a pay day


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