Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35939459)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...MCNEWEML6619I2
Well so much for uniting everyone. :erm:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35939461)

A party riven by deep disunity with a weakened leader being led by others sadly...

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35939492)

Calling people you disagree with ‘sheep’ is inappropriate, whichever your political views.

If you can’t agree on something, there’s no need to be insulting - if you have to be abusive, your argument is weak.

Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35939515)

Brexit isn't the problem. It's all the political infighting that is, Cameron created a political crap storm then did one. He should really be held accountable for his actions

Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35939515)

Brexit isn't the problem. It's all the political infighting that is, Cameron created a political crap storm then did one. He should really be held accountable for his actions

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939544)

The trouble is, whilst Cameron handled the referendum badly, the Conservative Party (and Labour) was heavily divided on the issue. He thought he could solve party divisions once and for all with a referendum.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35939545)

Sadly none of that has transpired even 20 months after the referendum.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939540)

I don't know. At least Cameron exposed the lie that the UK actually had a say in the direction of the EU.He presented a set of really straight forward and positive reforms and they sent him packing.:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35939551)

He still, like every other living Prime Minister, recommended we Remain.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939558)

And probably dead ones like Churchill would have done so too. ;)

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35939565)

well he wanted a united states of Europe so it a certainty


http://www.churchill-society-london..../astonish.html

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35939551)

He still, like every other living Prime Minister, recommended we Remain.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35939461)

A party riven by deep disunity with a weakened leader being led by others sadly...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939576)

And so did I, but the Eurocrats botched it up, didn't they? The sooner we get out, the better for all of us. Time will prove me right on this

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939601)

You seem very confident of your position but do you have any supporting evidence? You made a valid, evidence-based case for TV migrating from channels to on-demand but this contrasts with your Brexit trade beliefs.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939601)

You seem very confident of your position but do you have any supporting evidence? You made a valid, evidence-based case for TV migrating from channels to on-demand but this contrasts with your Brexit trade beliefs.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939632)

Belief is a good choice of word:



This will not matter if you have Faith. Faith is based on conviction rather than proof.

When Brexit plays out and those that repeat everyday that "I know what I voted for" discover that they are indeed worse off in a variety of ways, will of course accuse those who voted Remain that that they betrayed them and had we all "come together and acted positive", all would have been peachy.

There is no winning here: for those who voted to Leave and those who said Remain.

The sad part is that the sections of England who were duped into believing that their own personal situation was all the EU's fault and that Leaving will improve their own personal wealth will be disappointed. If they were asked at the time: "Would you vote Leave if it means you will be poorer in the short, medium and long term?" A lot of people would have said "No".

Anyway, the Trick was played and we are where we are. No problem really: we can all put on our Empire glasses and wave our Union Jacks. I mean, "When I was a lad, we were fine. We had no EU and we traded with most of the world. So where's the problem is just winding the clock back?"

The PM's shallow speech entreating we all "come together" was a waste of time. The country is fundamentally divided and the Tories are to blame, no one else. No excuse to blame Labour. Any political party who proposes a referendum winnable by a simple numeric majority that will radically change the structural & economic future of the country based on no plan and no ideas will be judged harshly by history.

The biggest joke of them all is when the very people who whined and complained for 40+ years about being in the EU now complain about people complaining we are Leaving ...

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939632)

Belief is a good choice of word:



This will not matter if you have Faith. Faith is based on conviction rather than proof.

When Brexit plays out and those that repeat everyday that "I know what I voted for" discover that they are indeed worse off in a variety of ways, will of course accuse those who voted Remain that that they betrayed them and had we all "come together and acted positive", all would have been peachy.

There is no winning here: for those who voted to Leave and those who said Remain.

The sad part is that the sections of England who were duped into believing that their own personal situation was all the EU's fault and that Leaving will improve their own personal wealth will be disappointed. If they were asked at the time: "Would you vote Leave if it means you will be poorer in the short, medium and long term?" A lot of people would have said "No".

Anyway, the Trick was played and we are where we are. No problem really: we can all put on our Empire glasses and wave our Union Jacks. I mean, "When I was a lad, we were fine. We had no EU and we traded with most of the world. So where's the problem is just winding the clock back?"

The PM's shallow speech entreating we all "come together" was a waste of time. The country is fundamentally divided and the Tories are to blame, no one else. No excuse to blame Labour. Any political party who proposes a referendum winnable by a simple numeric majority that will radically change the structural & economic future of the country based on no plan and no ideas will be judged harshly by history.

The biggest joke of them all is when the very people who whined and complained for 40+ years about being in the EU now complain about people complaining we are Leaving ...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939636)

My opinion is based on a huge number of reports, articles and observations on what is going on - I am sure there's a short snappy article I could lay my hands on, but I'm not spending time trawling through them.

However, I would point out that the Euro is by no means out of the wood, a number of southern EU economies are still in the mire and disaffe tion with the EU is increasing in EU countries. The EU is not willing to listen, and so this little powder jkeg will sooner or later explode.

What is more, the EU is the worse performing large economy and sooner or later the whole bureaucratic, rule bound mess will implode. This is not the Europe I hoped for back in the day.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939638)

The Conservatives have addressed it, so all credit to them for that.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35939644)

Other than the fact the EU are our biggest trading partner another reason we really need to secure a decent trade deal with them is that it looks like the US deal isn't going to be so great for us: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...-war-gg8x2pd6f

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35939649)

and still the Brextremists says it gonna be easy to do deals all living in fantasy island

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939640)

Old Boy, again you post things like the worst-performing large economy when this clearly isn't true. I don't pretend the EU's a bed of roses but it's not the worst-performing one and the EU 27 are growing faster than the UK at the moment. I encourage you to look at the evidence and then form your opinion.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939656)

Well, one of the worst. I agree that they did beat Japan.

However, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, Brazil, South Korea, United States, Canada, Mexico, South Africa and Australia all did better.

The UK hasn't done so well just lately, but don't forget that we are in the EU stranglehold that we are prising ourselves free from, and our economic growth will go from strength to strength when we leave and put the Brexit uncertainties behind us.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939656)

Well, one of the worst. I agree that they did beat Japan.

However, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, Brazil, South Korea, United States, Canada, Mexico, South Africa and Australia all did better.

The UK hasn't done so well just lately, but don't forget that we are in the EU stranglehold that we are prising ourselves free from, and our economic growth will go from strength to strength when we leave and put the Brexit uncertainties behind us.

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35939659)

fantasy island there OB

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939665)

Any evidence to support that growth comparison? Reality is that the Eurozone has outperformed the USA for the last 2.5 years!

https://www.ft.com/content/8db37b0a-...9-9f94ee97d996

Nail on the head, Dave!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939638)

Well, Labour is part of the entrenched elite that so many people (not only in this country) have rejected. I can still hear snotty nosed Ed Miliband giving us all his pompous statements about how things were going to be 'because it's the right thing to do' which brought the worst out in a lot of people.

The fact that Labour would not address the mounting feeling of resentment about the Westminster and EU elite really does them no credit at all. The Conservatives have addressed it, so all credit to them for that.

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35939659)

fantasy island there OB

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35939679)

No it’s not and far from it.

OB is correct.

Italy won’t be far behind us, by the looks of things, based off Eurosceptic parties gaining power in the elections yesterday. Itaxit a real possibility.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939683)

Didn't they say that about Austria, Hungary, France, Catalonia and the Netherlands too?

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35939659)

fantasy island there OB

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939665)

Any evidence to support that growth comparison? Reality is that the Eurozone has outperformed the USA for the last 2.5 years!

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939671)

OB doesn't need facts, as George says, you gotta have Faith :)

---------- Post added at 22:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------



I am not sure how you are blaming Labour for the mess that the Tories created? I guess it is a tribal thing ..

So let's discuss:



What parallel universe did this happen in? The Tories have "addressed the mounting feeling of resentment about the Westminster and EU elite"?

Come on, really? The degradation of the UK-owned manufacturing base, the lack of robust tax policies over the last decade to address offshore tax evasion, non-existent Corporation tax payments for globals, runaway housing inflation fueled by uncontrolled foreign investment (inc. money laundering), spending billions on projects intended to favour the City & big business, running down public services while watching the City & privatised national services taking billions out of this country, etc.

The list is endless to be honest. To say that the Tories are addressing the problems of the Elite is jaw dropping. They are part of this problem.

Also, while I am on my high horse :), we have a PM and Cabinet who, believe and campaigned against Leave not 18 months ago. They expressed their views many times on why Leaving is bad for this country. Now the very same people stand up and say the *exact* opposite and expect the country to believe them!

If they had a shred of honesty they should have resigned, all of them. Power is a seductive mistress so here we are, witnessing a group conversation on the road to Damascus.

Ah, you say, but they are only enacting the mythical "will of the people" and they must put aside they own personal convictions and carry out their sacred duty. Rubbish, I say! You cannot believe a word they utter.

It is the same thing as Monsieur Farage becoming Foreign Secretary in the case of a Remain win and enthusiastically representing the UK Government at the EU summit. No chance ...

Lastly, I am curious, why do you add a derogatory, personal insult when discussing someone you do not agree with?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939691)

Well, as far as the growing resentment of the EU elite is concerned, we were given a referendum, and the electorate gave their verdict.

As far as your rant about what, in your opinion, this government has not done, do remind yourself that the Northern Powerhouse is a Conservative idea (where is Labour's plan for the North?), tax evasion and tax avoidance is being tackled, whereas Labour did nothing when in power, housing inflation is being tacled through a variety of measures, including immigration controls and more house building, and public services have suffered due to the austerity measures that have been introduced following the financial mess that Labour left us in.

The fact that the Conservatives are now pretty united in taking forward Brexit is credit to them. Many did not want this, it's true, but at least they have listened to the electorate. You appear not to like that.

As for Ed Milliband, OK, fair dos, but he brings out the worst in people! :D

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939691)

Well, as far as the growing resentment of the EU elite is concerned, we were given a referendum, and the electorate gave their verdict.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939700)

It is a weak argument to always fall back and blame the party last in power 9 years ago. The clear and present danger is the current Government and the dangerous course it has set this country on solely due to internal party politics.

We can have a long discussion on the validity of the IndyRef but let's not, it has been done to death. That said, 37% of the Electorate gambling the long term structural & economic future of the country is not a closed book.

You raise points that are I am afraid just right-wing media spin:

- housing inflation is being tackled
- austerity was caused by Labour and not the City owned sub-prime banking crisis
- (this is my favorite) immigration controls

I guess you could call IndyRef "immigration controls" but it was a crude weapon. The controls were already there but the Government choose not to use them for reasons known only to themselves.

The Tories are trying to say things that will deflect attention from the obvious failing of the current free-market system but, truth be known, their heart is not really in it is it? It can't be, they are children of Thatcher, it is in the DNA.

The evidence is mounting: the old fool Corbyn with all his dubious baggage nearly won the last election by just pointing out the obvious.

Lastly, saying "that the Conservatives are now pretty united in taking forward Brexit is credit to them." made me spit out my coffee! The veneer is paper thin.

Here's the adult approach to negotiating the future of our country when it is on the precipice:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939691)

I apologise for including the USA. I had forgotten that the US had fallen back recently in comparison with the EU. However, it does not change the thrust of what I said about the slow economic growth of the EU compared with other large economies.

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35939711)

Quick question - which measure are you using to compare the EU growth. I checked the OECD figures comparing the EU, the Eurozone and the G7 in both quarterly and year on year growth and the figures look OK - http://www.oecd.org/sdd/na/QNA-GDP-Growth-Q317-Eng.pdf

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35939734)

In addition to wanting us to drop agriculture standards, losing BA's ability to operate in the states as a 'first-party' operator (i.e preference to American airlines) they also want us to drop name protection so they can sell 'Scotch': https://www.scotsman.com/news/us-lob...isky-1-4700965

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939740)

Some sobering facts for those Brexiters who staked their reputations on the US giving us a good deal.

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35939745)

:LOL: staking our reputations on . . . really?

You seem to find it extremely difficult to grasp that many of us wanted OUT of the European club that many of us think have no reputation left at all :p:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939752)

Not the reputations of esteemed but anonymous posters but people like Liam Fox who promised it would be easy. http://uk.businessinsider.com/liam-f...brexit-2017-10

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35939704)

Ianch, plenty of anomalies in your above post.

Corbyn didn’t ‘nearly’ win the election at all, he was thankfully, about 60 seats short.

This 37 % is a Fake figure because people ineligible to vote or could not be bothered, cannot be included in any so called percentage of the population of the UK of a total vote, either way, it does not matter. Leave won and it is a closed book, we are leaving.

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------



Agreed. They certainly did. 17.4 Million out of about 33 Million.

Leave had a over a Million more votes. Those who bothered to register to vote and actually voted, made their voice heard. Remain came up short. Those who were not eligible or could not be bothered to vote do not count in any so called percentage. This is just another weak attempt by Remainers to delegitimise a very legit and legal, democratic process.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939710)

W

So the fact that Labour left a financial mess for the Conservatives (as they did in 1979) isn't relevant to where we are now? I'm sorry, but that is the whole reason for the austerity measures that had to be taken. You may wish to ignore facts that are inconvenient to you, but really!

Once again, I am not blaming Labour for the sub prime issue that caused the financial crisis, of course not. But Labour with their financial mismanagement of our economy raided every budget and spent their way through every financial device they could think of. They raided our pensions, created more debt and didn't think of the consequences. When the financial crash came, there was no money available to protect us against the full impact, and the rest is history. You may try to ignore that little inconvenient truth, but this is a gentle reminder that non-Labour voters have not forgotten.

Similarly, you want to ignore the referendum, for reasons best known to yourself. It happened, and the electorate voted to leave, so get over it. I understand you might have misgivings, but throwing your toys out of the pram because it didn't go your way is not going to help and cuts no ice with me. The government are simply implementing the will of the electorate, even though some started off with a heavy heart. That is democracy in action. The EU would have had us call another referendum because it was not 'the right result', which of course would have been for 'More Europe'. :rolleyes:

In case you haven't noticed, Theresa May is going all out to get more houses built and is now putting pressure on those developers who are holding onto land. Where I live, there are huge housing developments going on all around, and sadly destroying our countryside. This, together with lower immigration levels, will tackle house inflation, so I don't know why you can't see that.

As for the free market system, this is what brings the wealth into the country that enables us to pay for the services we receive. Imperfect it may be, but it works, unlike Communism, which has failed everywhere it has been practised. Again, Labour never tackled the abuses such as tax evasion, so they are in no position to criticise the Conservatives for their considerable efforts in trying to put this right.

Whatever you may say, Theresa May has done her best to make the Brexit decision work and she has achieved unity in her party on this issue, which is no mean feat. Which is more than Labour has done.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939754)

We disagree on what constitutes "legit" so let's agree to differ :)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939754)

No anomalies, just uncomfortable reading :)

If Labour had won seven seats narrowly taken by the Conservatives, he would have had the opportunity to form a “progressive alliance” with all other smaller parties excluding the DUP. So as I said he was very nearly in Government .. scary, right?

Please, 37% of Electorate voted Leave is fake? Really ..

We disagree on what constitutes "legit" so let's agree to differ :)

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:47 ----------



OB, less of the emotive windups: "throwing your toys out of the pram", "get over it" :) We just have different views, don't take it personally.

You seem to fall into the same debating style as the Daily Mail: if you criticise unregulated, free market economics, you must be a Communist! In the real world, outside of the right wing media bubble, there are choices in between these two endpoints. One example is the Nordic Model but it may be too sensible for some :)

Again, you cite Labour again. If you criticise the Tories, you are not then automatically suggesting that the Labour solution is appropriate.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939760)

Well, sorry, launch, but it does make me curious as to why so many people expect democracy but don't accept the referendum result! This continual resistence to what people have voted for is a bit wearing.

I think that many who criticise the free market do, in fact, want Communism, but if that is not your position, I accept that, of course. However it would be good if when people criticise, they should set out what they would do instead. That would certainly help understanding.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939761)

Many politicians and individuals criticise the current free market. For some, it's not free enough and for others, it's too free. But I wouldn't call all people who criticise it Communists, that's a very small number of people.
Have you made any progress on locating the underlying date for your country growth rates?;)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939766)

I cannot remember which site I was on at the time, but you should be able to Google the information. You're not disputing the fact that those other advanced economies are doing better than the EU in terms of growth, are you? I accept that I stated incorrectly that the US was one of them, that was my bad.

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35939786)

Robert Peston, definitely a voice worth listening to . . for a giggle

Robert Peston forgot who he works for in a hilarious gaffe during a press conference at Theresa May's Brexit speech.

All the debate about leaving or staying in a customs union may have confused the respected journalist so much that he introduced himself as working for the BBC, which he left a few years ago for ITV.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...eston-12115564

See how easy it is to post selective articles?

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35939796)

Merely pointing out that what a reporter writes about is his opinion, nothing more

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35939786)

Robert Peston, definitely a voice worth listening to . . for a giggle

Robert Peston forgot who he works for in a hilarious gaffe during a press conference at Theresa May's Brexit speech.

All the debate about leaving or staying in a customs union may have confused the respected journalist so much that he introduced himself as working for the BBC, which he left a few years ago for ITV.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...eston-12115564

See how easy it is to post selective articles?

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35939796)

Merely pointing out that what a reporter writes about is his opinion, nothing more

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35939786)

Robert Peston, definitely a voice worth listening to . . for a giggle

Robert Peston forgot who he works for in a hilarious gaffe during a press conference at Theresa May's Brexit speech.

All the debate about leaving or staying in a customs union may have confused the respected journalist so much that he introduced himself as working for the BBC, which he left a few years ago for ITV.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...eston-12115564

See how easy it is to post selective articles?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939760)

Well, sorry, launch, but it does make me curious as to why so many people expect democracy but don't accept the referendum result! This continual resistence to what people have voted for is a bit wearing.

I think that many who criticise the free market do, in fact, want Communism, but if that is not your position, I accept that, of course. However it would be good if when people criticise, they should set out what they would do instead. That would certainly help understanding.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939682)

There is a lot of discussion on following the pros & cons of the Nordic Model:

Not perfect but a good starting point?

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939823)

You mean like this?



BTW, you can call me 'launch" if you like :) No worries ..

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939821)

I find it amusing that this man actually seems to believe that Theresa May is aware that her Brexit stance will never be accepted but is just 'kicking the can down the road', with only one more year to go before it will happen.

Such nonsense. If she knew for sure she was not getting a deal from Europe, she would be preparing now for a no-deal Brexit, and she would be going all out to prepare industry for that as well.

These were silly comments and I would expect better from a half competent journalist.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35939836)

Same story available in the Gruniad for the snobs. ;)

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35939836)

Same story available in the Gruniad for the snobs. ;)

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939830)

Those of us following events closely know Robert to be correct. Today, reports state that the UK's plea for services to be included in any free trade deal will be rebuffed. So, the UK will get its transition deal and an offer of a Canada-style deal for goods but this won't be accepted by Parliament so the UK will stay in transition mode, something that the EU will accept as we'll abide by its rules and continue funding it.

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35939883)

The EU never demanded €100bn, that was an estimate by the FT and was before rebates and and money that was due to be sent back to the UK. See https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35939883)

The EU never demanded €100bn, that was an estimate by the FT and was before rebates and and money that was due to be sent back to the UK. See https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35939883)

The EU never demanded €100bn, that was an estimate by the FT and was before rebates and and money that was due to be sent back to the UK. See https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35939889)

I don’t think Philip Hammond has received the latest hymn sheet. Here’s what he said today on the EUs draft guidelines in the upcoming trade talks;

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939890)

I cannot see anything to disagree with there. This is why we are keeping our cards close to our chests, much to the annoyance of the press and remainers.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939888)

What's this then?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#6633346732f8

David Davis flatly dismissed Brussels demands for a £92billion (€100billion) divorce bill today after it emerged Germany, France and Poland had ganged up to inflate the sum.

EU negotiators have doubled the charge the UK was thought to be facing in order to cover farm subsidies and plug the giant hole in its budget up until 2020.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939890)

I cannot see anything to disagree with there. This is why we are keeping our cards close to our chests, much to the annoyance of the press and remainers.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939891)

You mean the cunning card that Hammond has that says:



That's a Hard brexit then .. anyone for Tea (and cake)?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939911)

Um, Theresa May's speech set out our cake-and-eat it approach. The EU has published its detailed guidelines long in advance. This is not a deal for negotiating a contract for printer paper with multiple suppliers, there's just two sides with pretty few surprises on either of them.

I do genuinely believe that something like Robert's Peston's scenario is a credible one, ie that the deal offered to the UK will be unacceptable to Parliament but that we'll negotiate a transition period that will go on for some time.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35939891)

You mean the cunning card that Hammond has that says:



That's a Hard brexit then .. anyone for Tea (and cake)?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939928)

Incidentally, the 'transition period' will actually be an 'implementation period' because we will already have left the EU by 2019. If there is nothing to implement because there's no deal, we would be out, and that's that.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35939931)

In news that may annoy Brextremists like Rees-Mogg, the Government will today publish its future contribution payments to the EU. It will also reiterate that there will be no Brexit dividend; payments that would have gone to the EU will now fund equivalent UK bodies and extra money may be needed if by any chance we are allowed to have associate membership of EU regulatory bodies such as the one for medicines.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939934)

Nothing new here, Andrew; the savings from ceasing contributions to the EU always were unlikely to be realised in the early years.

The biggest advantage for the UK will be increased trade with the rest of the world. That's the dividend I'm interested in.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939928)

Make mine a large slab, with some nice Australian wine. :D

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939934)

Nothing new here, Andrew; the savings from ceasing contributions to the EU always were unlikely to be realised in the early years.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939934)

Nothing new here, Andrew; the savings from ceasing contributions to the EU always were unlikely to be realised in the early years.

The biggest advantage for the UK will be increased trade with the rest of the world. That's the dividend I'm interested in.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35940014)

Better get that Bus repainted then :)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35940014)

Better get that Bus repainted then :)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35940015)

As it happens, the government has pledged to continue paying various grants for an interim period in line with payments currently paid by the EU (eg agricultural grants to farmers) so that money was never going to be available straight away anyhow.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35940019)

Better still get Boris to do it.;)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35939934)

The biggest advantage for the UK will be increased trade with the rest of the world. That's the dividend I'm interested in.

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35940052)

Let's wait and see, shall we? We have vague promises from the likes of Trump that they will trade with us, but let's see what they offer to a group of negotiators negotiating on behalf of one country of 70 million compared to those representing several countries, and 400 million people.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35940054)

The Brexit Committee's own report kicks OB's assertion well and truly into the long grass. Per slide 14, such deals will only add 0.2% - 0.7% to GDP. By leaving the EU and adopting a free trade agreement with it, the report suggests a reduction in GDP of 3%.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...l-Briefing.pdf

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35940078)

Well now that she's solved her local difficulties she can get back to running the EU. :erm:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35940879)

Iceland were effective in protecting their territorial waters from our fishermen. We should be prepard for the same.

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35940906)

It seems our EU Parliamentary representative to the EU Fisheries Committee, one N. Farage wasn't very effective. Maybe turning up to more than one out of 42 meetings of the committee would have better represented our interests

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35940879)

Iceland were effective in protecting their territorial waters from our fishermen. We should be prepard for the same.