Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The closest to Old Boy's conspiracy theory is the Liberal Democrat's request to give people a vote in 2019 on the deal with the EU and staying a member, although that's not necessarily an option. That's nowhere near Old Boy's conspiracy theory though but it's the closest.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Aren't the LD's pushing for a vote on whatever deal is agreed first????

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

With the growing problems within the EU atm mainly immigration and the southern financial nightmare I'd say in the last year the EU has moved closer to collapse or a reduction in member states which would be a disaster of a different magnitude. Add in that anti EU feeling is growing within all member states and depending how organised they become could start impacting the EU within the next five to ten years only a fool would talk in terms of the EU continuing longterm. The establishment in the EU has demonstrated time and again that they are at best slow to address issues and often just disregard them such was the attitude when cameron went to try and get meaningful reform and instead came back with nothing of real worth.

Quite a few EU politicians felt quite chuffed with themselves sending cameron back with nothing i wonder how chuffed they felt after we voted to leave and the prospect of no trade deal with the UK being gauranteed. Whilst remainers always want to frame the debate about what we in the UK will lose or pay more in the future they forget we trade many goods with the EU that if no deal is reached will impact various EU member states. It's become default with some to talk about the UK as a nation that does nothing and was only able to keep going because of our membership of the EU and their generosity hard to believe the UK was the second net contributor to the EU.

There are many models that have been prepared and more that will be prepared and not all are negative but no doubt the focus will be on the one's that are negative as that suits the tired old tactic of scare and exaggerate that's been the remain sides only tactic thus far. I've still not seen an explanation for how the UK being able to trade with the rest of the world on our terms will be less economically beneficial then continuing to mainly trade with twenty seven nations the terms not ours to control. This isn't and never has been a one side is completely correct and the other completely wrong issue for the UK and lets hope that better people then any of us on this forum deal with things better.

This debate on this and many other forums is now totally pointless as it's mainly the die hards from both sides waging the same tired arguments and propaganda and being honest both sides have enough with their heads up their backsides that there is no new ground to be covered. I'm going to now do the only beneficial thing anyone can do and leave the debate as I'm not convinced by the constant barrage of negativity that now exists on both sides and again being honest lifes too damn short to keep taking part in a daily bout of depression so have at it.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I never thought I'd say this but Charles André Joseph Marie de Gaulle is my hero. He did his best to keep us out!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Not from where I'm sitting. They've done precious little to sort out the fundamental problems affecting the banking sector, Greek debt, uncontrolled migration, huge unemployment etc. etc.

There also seems to be some doubt abput the veracity of Spanish economic data:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...y-Dijsselbloem

Now where have we heard that before? Greece wasn't it...

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Personally I'm waiting for the dust to settle before commenting too much.

But, "The influential Evening Standard"? Are you serious? Isn't that the newspaper now edited by Brexit doom and gloom king, and Dodgy Dave's mate, Georgie boy?

They have a right to a biased view, but understand where the Editor is coming from, and it aint a balanced view point.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I would imagine back in April as that's the date of the article.
At the moment, the recovery in the Eurozone is the surprise story of 2017. https://identityspace.wordpress.com/...story-of-2017/

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

It may be edited by six-jobs George but it's still highly influential and apparently thriving under his editorship.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Where did you get that fact, from another blog ?

You never learn blogs are just opinions. If I lacked maturity, I'd be suggesting to Osem, that we should perhaps have drink every time you link to a blog. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I fear you'd be pretty thirsty Mick as my links - aside from the rare one - are to the mainstream media.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Ok but the imminent collapse of the Eurozone has been imminent for a long while.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Think you'll find his name is Gideon....

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

So, reading over the past couple of pages, I see that we cannot model Brexit (so leavers don't actually know what they voted for) But the EU will definitely collapse... So you can't model one country but you can model a union of 27. Is this right?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

a sample of 27 is more accurate than a sample of 1 ,thank you for pointing that out .

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

And that sample of 27, will now only have 9 actual net contributors once we leave, we were in the 10 who do while 18 other member countries get a piggy back.

The fundamental question is and requires only a one worded question....

Sustainable? :erm:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

with a £10 billion economic black hole ? :shrug:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

'Project Fear is back!' Seething Farage launches savage attack on BBC's 'anti-Brexit bias'

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/827...oday-programme

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Foreign Secretary: Boris Johnson says EU's Brexit bill extortionate and they can 'go whistle'.

You tell them imbeciles Boris. :D

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-john...onate-10944564

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Isn't that pretty much how any economically diverse alliance (country) works? eg the UK? - more regions cost the country more than they contribute.


Cheers


Dave

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's perfectly obvious that the Beeb has a pro-EU stance. Anything negative economically is portrayed as a whole or partial consequence of Brexit whilst any good news tends to presented as being 'in spite of' Brexit.

Yes we know what effect Sterling has had on our economy but it wasn't that long ago that it was virtually at parity with the Euro and over the last decade it's only been at a significantly higher level for a few years and that had nothing to do with Brexit.

https://www.ofx.com/en-gb/forex-news...average-rates/

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

How terrible of him. I think he should have just asked them to name their price and whatever else they want from the UK, just like Corbyn's crew, the Lib-Dems, SNP and greens would. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You mean just like your beloved Conservatives have done to form yet another 'coalition' governement that nobody actually voted for :rolleyes:


Cheers


Dave

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

:D:D
Watch out Grim, the mob of angry Brexiteers will be back soon with their sharpened pitch forks.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Beloved Conservatives? Really? :rofl: Hatred of Labour and their track record doesn't require love of the alternative you know. The Tories are the least worst option right now and at least they honoured the previous PM's promise of a referendum unlike the Labour party who reneged on theirs.

As for coalitions, minority governments and the like, forgotten the Lib-Lab pact have you? Wasn't that long ago that your chum Corbyn wanted his own minority government. I suppose another Labour Govt. which even fewer people voted for would be much better in your opinion. Classic hypocrisy as usual. :rofl:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Whereas Corbyn's communist Labour party would never have dreamed of doing anything like that...:rolleyes:

Ooh Arrrr. Oill dang 'e with my fork.:D

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Maybe so, but they'll still be full of hypocrisy and the proverbial you know what!! (and it's a slow day so could do with a giggle)


Cheers


Dave

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Pot calling the kettle black.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

No it's not like they tapped up the UDP themselves is it. Utter hypocrites.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I never said they wouldn't whereas Osem (as usual) implies they are the only ones who would consider capitulating to unrealistic demands ;).


Cheers


Dave

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Didn't see my mention of the SNP, Greens, Lib Dems then? Odd because you quoted it. :rolleyes:

Also Labour are the official opposition so clearly what they say/do is more important than the rest.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Ooops , my mistake don't know where I got the idea you where true blue - maybe something to do with the disdain you seem to show for anyone else....


As the blues now seem to be realising how popular some of the Labour policies are they have obviously realised to stay in power they need to look to the left and learn.


Anyway suppose we should stick to the topic.


Cheers


Dave

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Strangely I haven't seen you challenge my supposed disdain for 'everyone else', only when it's Labour. Maybe you just don't like your beloved Labour criticised. ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

No. that is not how 'pretty much' it should work because collectively, the EU is not a Country.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Countries work that way because they act, with the consent of the people, as a single democratic unit.

The EU is not a single democratic unit. Our contributions have been financing projects in foreign countries. It is altogether different than the funding of a new bypass around Hull.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's easier to predict the actions and opinions of 27 governments than it is just one and that's the one for the country you live in?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'm curious why you have a problem with us funding 'foreign countries'. Of course there will be remitters and beneficiaries in any transaction. The hope was by helping other countries within the EU would help create an even bigger market and therefore make everyone richer.

It also worth reminding you that the UK's contribution to the EU budget is time compared to all other outlays.

In the fiscal year ending in 2016, total UK public spending was £761.9 billion. The UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £13.6 billion, however the UK received £2.8 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK's net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £10.8 billion.

£10.8bn out of £761.9bn is a tiny traction of our annual expenditure. The return from that £10.8bn outweighs our spending on many other areas.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Hope springs eternal, however there is at least one ghost airport in Spain that I can think of off the top of my head.

I have no problem with foreign aid as a concept, however I believe it should be controlled by the British government, not handed over to a bureaucracy in Brussels and then handed on as if it's their largesse. It seems you agree with the notion that foreign aid, where possible, should ultimately be of benefit to the benefactor, for example in the creation of a market for our goods. I agree with that too, and I think the British government is better placed to ensure our foreign aid is spent to that end.

Quibbling over the amount of our contribution is somewhat besides the point, in any case. It was an argument for or against leaving the EU, and that's an argument that was decided over a year ago. There is no point re-running those arguments now. Nevertheless, while £10bn may be only a small proportion of our overall annual expenditure, it is still in absolute terms a very large sum of money and one that I am glad will now be under our control.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

... and if there's sufficient pressure from the electorate it may well be that a good proportion can be spent on the NHS which is what so many people seem to be exercised about.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The EU is definitely not perfect. A number of schemes which were partially funded with EU money were poorly thought through. Mistakes also happen with national funding. I am sure we can all think of projects which probably should not have been invested in by the British government.

The EU makes policy at an overall EU level. This is to rise above national governments (at the appropriate times) and seek to help make policy and fund projects which help the overall European Union succeed (i.e. single market). Do you really want all of the 28 member states making decisions on every project across the entire union? That would make for very poor decision making. Also handing this funding and decision making back to national governments would mean that there are no funds available to help fund projects which benefit more than one member state.

I'm sorry, but your comment above is absurd. If we took that approach, then perhaps all of you should have stopped complaining after the 1975 vote when we voted to join/remain part of the EEC/EU.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

After we have left, the 27 can do whatever they choose to do. Britain will make our own independent decisions.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Yup, they can spend as much time as they like arguing the toss amongst themselves choosing which EU rules they do/don't obey and who's going to make up the shortfall when the UK's huge contribution to the Brussels coffers disappears.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

As expected, you have dodged the actual topic about what is happening now.

As expected, you have dodged the actual topic about what is happening now.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

What is happening now is that we are leaving the EU and as someone who firmly believes the EU is based on a fatally flawed concept and has no future, I'm very comfortable with that prospect and believe the UK's future is more secure in our own hands.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Dodged the question again.

Curious however to know why you think it is flawed, especially when the actual concept of the EU was actually a Churchill/Marshall idea. In fact Churchill at one point was even suggesting the UK and France join together as a single country (Franco-British Union), however I am sure you will regard this an inconvenient truth.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

or your dodging the answer ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I've not dodged anything.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

De Gaulle is my hero!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You can have as many hero's as you want.;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Don't forget the Nazis.

The NAZIS and FASCISTS who founded the THE EU and their influence today - Rodney Atkinson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nf5KeC4dAs

(Oh, and Bilderberg gets a mention re Nazi influence)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That's complete tin foil hat territory. Not interested in going there. Reality always better. :)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'm surprised it's so unpopular here :erm:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

So you watched the documentary then? A 37 minute documentary in 10 minutes!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That is quite a rarity sometimes on this forum.;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's still reality, even if it's reality from a few years ago. Not understanding the forces and philosophy that brought the EU into reality from the get-go is a mistake, because you won't have a clue what its ultimate destination aim is.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'm waiting for Osem's answer too.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

good for you

remember it's the brexit thread so it could take two years to get an answer unless you want to leave without one

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

:rofl:

What it's become (a fixation with ever closer union, single currency, single economic policy etc and all with 28 very different member states) in my lifetime is a flawed concept but maybe before jumping to conclusions about what I may/may not consider to be inconvenient truths, you might want to have a look at the threads listed below. My numerous posts therein along with many others will give you an insight into what I (and many others here think) and why. When you've done that I'll be happy to clarify any questions you think I've dodged. ;)

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...light=Eurozone

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ght=referendum

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

IIRC Churchill did more than suggest union he actually offered it, however I don't see how it's an inconvenient truth as he didn't do it out of love for France or Europe but to keep them in WWII

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

He wanted to keep them in WWII? That's a new one on me. My understanding is that he felt it would be good for the populations of both countries and offer stability. Effectively act as a large counterweight to the Germans at the time.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...colate-orange/
What a shambles, led by weak and wobbly Theresa. I can see at the end of this us going back to the EU and saying 'sorry for wasting your time but we want to stay after all..' Wouldn't blame them if they said 'get lost' !

Have to take issue with him on one point. No way do chocolate oranges always come apart easily. I've often had to take a hammer to them, this Govt. isn't that tough ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You must give me the name of your oculist. :D

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

that's not how you spell occultist :)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I never knew about the 1939 talks, I had only heard about the offer in 1940. It's always good to learn something new :tu:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-British_Union

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Corbyn's EU interference could WRECK Brexit deal... and save us BILLIONS, says Rees-Mogg

The staunch Brexiteer said the Labour and SNP leaders are entitled to attempt to dip their oar into the European Union.

However, he insisted suggestions they will have any influence over the final negotiations is nonsense - and if they tempt Brussels’ into punishing the UK, then leaving the EU without a deal will benefit Britons.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...t-negotiations

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The are suppose to be all educated people, they should stop fighting each other and get together and get a good deal. I think some of them think if they vote against each it won't go through, Like weans in a play school

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

If there's no deal it's WTO rules, NOT stay in the EU. Don't they understand that?

TBQH That's what I voted for: Complete leave, not some kind of EU lite.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Diane James (glorious UKIP leader for 18 days for anyone who blinked) currently has a poll she commissioned on twitter, "should Britain still leave the EU"
For those who can't resist looking I wonder if it's binding or just advisory ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

How does irrelevant sound? :dozey:

One poll mattered and the result has been enacted and process of leaving, is in transition.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

My question was rhetorical, but I think the poor woman was just looking for reassurance, a bit like when Theresa May called a snap election.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Twitter is not an accurate place to gauge any kind of accurate assessment, given anyone in the whole world could have voted on that poll, giving an erroneous set of results.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'm not sure many in the rest of the world give a monkeys what we do.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Do a Twitter poll and find out.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

What does the Daily Mail think ?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

No idea but you were pondering what other nations think about what we do so I suggest you find out.

Meanwhile back in Brexit land:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40593588

Where there's a will there's a way.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

This kind of posting is getting silly and it will end immediately.

Accusing people of reading certain newspapers because what ? A view opposes yours?

FFS Grow up. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Chill pill people, back to the topic :)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

[QUOTE=Osem;35907716]No idea but you were pondering what other nations think about what we do so I suggest you find out.

Meanwhile back in Brexit land:


Actually it was Mick who was suggesting foreign nationals voted in the poll, I don't think this was the case and to suggest I run a poll to find out is pretty silly as well. As for why Diane James would consider twitter (via a Brexit site) a good place to run a poll then better ask her.

---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

I was responding to Osems equally silly comment to run a poll, and he often quotes the mail.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Really? Wrong again. I fairly rarely quote the mail and certainly don't read it so wouldn't know what its views on what other nations think of the UK's actiions are.

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 ----------

This is why I mentioned running a Twitter poll, you mentioned someone else's.


... and meanwhile back in Brexitland:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-poli...erish-millions

Still pushing the notion that the people voted to leave when really what they wanted was to stay... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

[QUOTE=Osem;35907762]Really? Wrong again. I fairly rarely quote the mail and certainly don't read it so wouldn't know what its views on what other nations think of the UK's actiions are.

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 ----------

Fair enough. I was just replying to a dismissive one liner with one of my own. No malice intended. ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

[QUOTE=daveeb;35907768]Likewise. :tu:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's comforting to see that Ed Balls is still making a public fool of himself:

https://order-order.com/2017/07/14/e...single-market/

His face when challenged said it all - the look of a man who's been rumbled.

These people just won't stop trying to undermine the process will they.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

the problem is when their IQ is lower than their shoe size it's not possible for them to grasp the facts ,you see they really had no idea what brexit was or is about it's not their fault they are just dumb :dunce:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

There was never going to be any other decision despite Brextremists pipe-dreaming otherwise. Who would want to sign trade deals with a country that didn't honour its financial commitments?
https://www.ft.com/content/be2b22ce-...6-7b38dcaef614

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Stupid statement. Get over yourself Andrew. Of course Brexit will honour any fair and accurate bill.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Yup, but of course some folks won't admit it because it reduces their capacity to scare people.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Admit what? A Brexit MP has gone on record as saying that we do not have to pay the EU anything when we leave. I hope it does not scare anyone.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/01/uk-wi...brexit-mp.html

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:17 ----------

I posted an entirely accurate statement saying "There was never going to be any other decision despite Brextremists pipe-dreaming otherwise". What's wrong with that?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

oh yes wolf ... wolf... wolf.... wolf

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

He may be a remoaner and I may despise the man but at last a bit of common sense from Blair.

Link

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

be careful he wants back into politics ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The only bit he's right about is the Corbyn bit. Corbyn would soon leave the UK on it's back just like previous Labour governments have.

Bliar's a first class, grade A egotist of the highest order. He can't take a step back from the political limelight any more than he can accept he's wrong. The only democracy he's interested in is that which supports his view, if it doesn't it's because the electorate have got it wrong and need to be better informed.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Can I just clarify - is that you or Tony you're taking about? ;););)

Cheers

Dave

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's not anti-democratic for someone to believe a democratic choice that has been made was wrong and to argue against it.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That's the only part I was referring to and he totally got it spot on. Corbyn would be a disaster as PM.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Phew - for a minute I thought you'd lost your marbles... ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

no it's contempt for democracy

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

To lose them I would have to have some in the first place!:D

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

He can argue against the decision 'til the cows come home that's up to him. What's not up to him and what is anti-democratic is to lobby behind the scenes to try to change the result or try to keep us in the EU when we voted to leave.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That's what Nigel Farage did after the previous referendum. Was he showing contempt for democracy too?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

ask him

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Lost me.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

My reply was re the specific part of your post that I quoted.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I referenced Brextremists like John Redwood not Brexiters.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Well it seems Labour wants to have its cake and eat it when it comes to Brexit.
Who said so? Shadow Business Secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey who I'm sure would be the first to condemn any Tory who dared to utter such words as being arrogant, provocative, intransigent, out of touch, blah, blah, blah...

https://order-order.com/2017/07/16/r...want-cake-eat/

Can anyone seriously imagine the mess the UK would be in if people like this were actually in power? :spin: