Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think if assurances about Brexit are being given to companies then Parliament should know yes. They're the representatives after all and whilst I don't think any private deals the government makes should be debated in Parliament I do think it's wrong for companies to be getting information about the plan for Brexit that isn't given to us.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Carney is staying: https://www.ft.com/content/5107a124-...e-abe238dee8e2

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Lots of talk about the UK doing free trade deals for particular industry sectors like the car industry. Any free trade agreement must cover substantially all (goods) trade according to Article XXIV of the GATT/WTO so a deal that just covered the car industry is not possible. There was a Canada-US Auto Pact with zero tariffs, but the WTO found this to be contrary to Article XXIV, see: https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e..._e/ds139_e.htm

So any free trade deal would have to cover all industries.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

All goods but not services? :(

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

As I understand it, all goods because services require a large degree of freedom of movement of people which countries are more reluctant to agree to.

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Bank of England governor Mark Carney says he will step down in June 2019.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37829069

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So later than the Brexiters wanted but earlier than his full term.

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He is doing a pretty good job so it would have been crazy for him to leave now so l am glad he is staying put until mid 2019.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

can you please explain in detail what exactly he is doing and what the reasoning behind it is ?

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Matter of opinion Den. He was right to warn of the disaster Brexit is going to be, but he's been constantly wrong on forecasting when interest rate rises will happen.

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i would have sacked him for trying to rig the referendum .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He never tried to rig the referendum at all as he quite clearly explained as is his job the economic problems that would come with Brexit and unless you have your biased rose tinted glasses on which you usually do even Brexiteer's admit that the road ahead is going to be pretty rocky unless you think otherwise.

---------- Post added at 19:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

As we know economic forecasts are pretty hard to get right as there can be a awful lot of different variables to deal with Mr K.

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:24 ----------

He is doing a unbiased and decent job unlike your ad nauseum habit of reading papers that are so biased and only give one side of the story as its pretty important to get both sides of the argument IMO.

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I would have give him a pay rise for him steering us through a self created situation

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no government needs a back seat driver .

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

so no idea then :dunce:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Cometh the hour, cometh the man. When everyone else was sleeping, only two people seemed to be doing anything on Brexit morn. Nigel Farage was in evidence and Mark Carney was busy doing his job providing reassurance to the markets. His reward has been to be attacked by Brexiters but he correctly has identified that the campaign against him damages the UK's interests and reduces confidence in a weakened economy. The weakness of the Pound reflects this.
I think he should be supported and not sniped at. In supporting him, we will be supporting the UK economy and hopefully the Pound can start to climb back up from its current 31-year low.
But I admit that every time I hear Theresa May saying he has her full confidence, he sounds like a football manager who's about to be sacked.
For the sake of the UK, I hope he stays.

[Edited at 21:17 - correction from Mike to Mark, credit to eagle-eyed papa smurf]

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

its commendable that you support mike Carney but who the heck is he ???

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The people need a government that was leading and no one was doing that

And the government need experts who actually know what they are talking about rather than sabre rattling rhetoric

Considering he is from Ye old British empire you would of thought brexiteers would approve

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Woops - Mark Carney but my points stand - he filled an enormous vacuum and stood up to defend the British economy whilst others slept or drafted their resignation speeches.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

EU countries enticing companies to relocate from the UK

Japanese companies in UK 'already receiving offers from EU'
"Japanese companies based in Britain have already started to receive offers from other European countries and could postpone investment decisions if the government fails to negotiate a close economic relationship with the EU.
That was the stark warning of Haruki Hayashi, president of the Japanese chambers of commerce in Britain and the European CEO of Mitsubishi [makers of Princes canned fish, Branston baked beans and Batchelor's soup] who said businesses needed more than “general reassurances” if his country’s investment presence in Britain was to be maintained."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ness-secretary

France 'to appoint Brexit team to lure British banks away from UK after EU withdrawal'
"France will set up a special task force of corporate leaders and politicians aimed at luring businesses and talents from London as the UK prepares to leave the EU.
The news comes after Paris’ financial district has unveiled an advertising campaign aimed to underscore the attractiveness of the French capital for business in the wake of the Leave vote with the slogan: “Tired of the fog? Try the frogs. Choose Paris La Defense”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7388881.html

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Honestly some brexiters make me embarassed to have voted leave as they are turning on anyone and everyone that isn't screaming support 24\7, mark carney has done a good job since taking over and I'm sure he's more then earning his salary right now helping steer the UK. Just because someone isn't constantly stating support doesn't make them any less competent or valuable and for that small group of rabid brexiters remember the tale of boris fervent supporter and campaigner for brexit during the campaign and completely selfish using the country for his own ends at the end of it. Not all that is brexit is necessarily good and there is benefit in some people not getting dragged into it.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

i thought he was part of project fear and spent most of his time telling the world how the UK would go down the toilet if we voted to leave the EU, seems to me he did his best to destabilise the economy while he was hanging onto Osborn's shirt tail ,and now after a sharp u turn he wants to guide us to prosperity .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

To be fair a lot of the criticism comes from Micheal Gove whose never met an expert who knows more about their domain than he does.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Which is why forecasting a figure for 2030 was always so dishonest

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I liked this article this morning: https://www.ft.com/content/5dc6fd46-...e-abe238dee8e2

We don't want purely technocratic governments but the likes of Gove and Hannan take the view that all technical or expert interventions are undemocratic intrusions upon their right to make everything a philosophical debate. It doesn't matter if it's a Bank of England Governor commenting on fiscal policy or major scientific bodies advising on global warming, their position as elected politicians doesn't just give them the authority to decide how to act on technical advice but to determine what that technical advice should be. Dougless Carswell recently joined the ranks of the revolt against the technocratic elite by insisting the Sun and not the the Moon causes tides. It didn't matter than the person he was arguing with was the head of Scientific research at Sussex or that it is the moon which causes tides. He believes the Sun causes them and he isn't going to let some jumped up scientist tell him otherwise.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

well what you don't know is where the sun goes at night it actually drops down into the ocean and just like when a fat bloke gets in the bath the water rises- in the day time the sun rises and the moon drops into the ocean and because it has a lower mass[ the science bit:shocked:] the tide goes down .;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He gave a projection of what might happen if the UK invoked Article 50 on 24 June. This event did not happen so we will never know if he was right or wrong.

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"Interest rates will go up. I meant down. No, up. Down. Up. Doh".

On the bright side when we can finally shoehorn him out of his cushy, overpaid job, he can go home and manage the newly signed EU/Canadian trade deal. The one that doesn't insist on free movement of people...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

your pretty good at the money game you should apply for his job ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

:D

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Britain will discover that distance still matters in trade

"...Not only have so-called gravity models of trade shown that the distance to a trading partner and the size of its economy matter for goods but, remarkably, they also reveal that the same seems to be true for services.

The negative effect of distance on trade has been evident for decades, even if economists struggled to explain its persistence. The ubiquity of the standard shipping container, the computerisation of transport logistics and the digitisation of production processes, enabling dispersed economies to be woven into a single supply chain, have not reduced the importance of proximity.

The standard analysis for goods is that each doubling of distance with a trading partner halves trade between them. A survey of Canadian services exports found that each 1 per cent increase in distance with a trading partner reduced trade by a third. The International Monetary Fund, which generated some estimates for the UK, found that the effect of distances on services trade was even higher than for goods."
https://www.ft.com/content/964afa06-...8-d3778b55a923

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

thats a bummer for Canada and the EU trade deal then .

nice link to a paywall

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Well you seem to be the ever wise sage on this forum regarding all and sundry so perhaps you are better qualified to apply for it.;)

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just a patriotic Brit rooting for his country ,i have never claimed to be anything other , and i have a job which involves taking large amounts of money from VM for my services ;)

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It's a registration wall, like some newspapers a limited number of articles are free.
Canada's a population of 36m and a long way away so possibly not a major EU export market.

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Bluff and double bluff. The EU has plenty of history of wanting to curtail and tax the banks and that's the reason there won't be any wholesale movement of banking into the EU.

The French are making noises in order to influence our negotiating position and if they weren't we'd all be greatly surprised. They're going to make all sorts of gestures to try to undermine what our govt. is trying to negotiate on our behalf. The banks will be playing that game too just as they have done in the past in order to influence government regulation here. It's laughable really - it wasn't that long ago that an awful lot of people were saying let the banks sod off given the massive mess they created. Now we're once again being scared into thinking that they'll do it. They won't leave in droves because the EU will always be a less profitable and more highly regulated market for them to operate in. That's what the EU is at it's core - more regulated, more bureaucratic and more expensive to operate within.

I think we all need to remember that there are huge banking problems in store within the EU and when they come to the fore again everyone will be banging on about how toxic all these banks are. At that point the French will no doubt start going on about more stringent controls/taxes and how it's bankers who caused all the world's ills as opposed to politicians who created the flawed regulatory framework they exploited and cooked the books to allow Greece into their silly club. I dare say Hollande (if he lasts that long) will then claim they'll be seeking compensation from us for the role the City of London played back in the lead up to 2008. Maybe we'll even be timid enough to pay them off rather than telling them where to go... Alternatively May could organise some overtures to all those French companies suffering badly right now, reminding them that life's a lot cheaper and simpler in the UK.

This is negotiating at it's very best and it's going to continue for some time so we can expect companies as well as countries to try to exploit the situation to secure price rises etc. for the very same reason. The UK needs to remain strong and not be panicked into anything which ends up with us snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The one that's taken 10 years to put together and compared to the deal we need is positively basic, is that the one

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

this one ?
Don't celebrate Justin Trudeau signing the Ceta deal with the EU – like TTIP, it is a ticking time bomb
This toxic trade deal has been subject to the same massive protest movement that greeted TTIP. Nearly 3.5 million Europeans said they didn’t want either deal and there are hundreds of TTIP and CETA-free local authorities across Europe

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7388841.html

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A sign of things to come, doesn't bode well for our deal

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Nissan deal 'won't persuade others to invest'

This important adviser recommended Nissan build its plant in the UK. What does he say now? "Until that final shape of the UK is clear, we will have to hold the investment decisions."
What does he have to say about Nissan's recent decision? "I don't think other companies will follow suit."

Quite an enlightening interview. I would have expected other companies to follow Nissan's lead.

More details http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37835797

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He also said, "We don't have enough information to make a prudent judgement."

As a strategist, I'd not expect him to say anything else.

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It's a paywall!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's a bit of an unusual model. You can access three articles a day if you access them via Google. I wasn't aware it was such a complicated set-up or would have clarified this aspect.
http://digiday.com/publishers/financ...subscriptions/

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Nevertheless, via any link you or anyone posts on this or any other forum then it's paywalled.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Clicking on the link does not take non-subscribers to the article but unlike 100% paywalled content like The Times there is a way to read them as the FT allows you to read three articles daily, but you have to access them via Google.
As I explained, I wasn't aware it was now such a complicated set-up or would have clarified how to read the article...which is to cut and paste the link into Google.
I'm sorry about any inconvenience this has caused but hopefully this has provided a good opportunity to show how non-subscribers can read FT articles.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Inflation could soar to 4% next year amid impact of Brexit says the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR).

http://news.sky.com/story/cbi-slashe...rexit-10641203

Brexit is so complex it could overwhelm politicians, warn senior academics.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...hanging-europe

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Ok Michael here goes, assuming alternative views are allowed...

http://news.sky.com/story/cbi-slashe...rexit-10641203

Going well isn't it ? Inflation up to 4%, economy stumbling. The reason Brexiters don't like Carney is because he reminds them how 'foolish' they've been.

better? ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't think your conclusions are justified by an article making predictions about the future. Not when predictions about the immediate aftermath of the vote have so far proven to be very wide of the mark.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Indeed. Dyed-in-the-wool remoaners will sieze upon any possible bad news to justify the predictions of project fear. They were wrong then and they're wrong now.

Stop talking down your country.

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Agree Chris. Fed up of these petty folk, who have real issues accepting the democratic vote and are still to this day, spreading doom and gloom any where and everywhere but not just this, adding their prejudice, where it is not warranted or justified.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Accepting a democratic vote means you accept it happened and the result is valid. I don't think anyone on here is contesting it. It doesn't mean you're no longer allowed to have an opinion or to think it was a mistake.

Would supporters of Brexit have shut up about the flaws in the EU had Remain won? Thrown themselves into the European Project wholeheartedly? Of course not nor should they have. Democracy allows dissenting views and the idea Brexit would put an end to this argument is mistaken.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It all depends on your definition of "accepting a democratic vote". To accept a mandate to leave the EU, if it means anything, is to become engaged in the process of making the best of (what you perceive to be) a bad situation. Obviously we're not all in the government, we're not all going to be negotiating with the EU or Frau Merkel, but we can surely be engaged in the debate about what our future should look like, and how to make it as good as it can be.

Restricting your commentary to the latest speculation about how badly wrong everything is about to go, is not acceptance, it is denial.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think we need to leave the EU, However there is still considerable scope for debate as to what that would entail. How much do we compromise in exchange for 'access to the single market' and so on. I do not like the way the Government is claiming a mandate for whatever they want to implement on the back of a Brexit vote. The 48% should be permitted input in that whilst accepting we do need to leave the EU itself and probably put controls on EU migration.

Personally I am impacted by the fall in Sterling. My own incentive is not to hope it crashes so I can go 'I told you so' but for that to stop.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The problem with that idea Damien is that any of the 48% that could take part in the brexit process are completely committed to us remaining in the EU and that's the only option as far as their concerned. Including them will create far more problems then it might solve and they would do everything possible to subvert the referendum.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There was a 72% turnout at the referendum, meaning those that voted in favour only represented 37% of the electorate. That ignores those that aren't registered to vote, mostly the young who this will affect most. If you take the UK population as a whole only 27% voted to leave. The mandate is far from convincing.

The problem for Brexiters is they are only now just waking up the economic results of their decision. However they'd have to admit they'd been duped, which no one wants to do. It isn't totally their fault, we've become so cynical about politicians/dodgy dossiers that no one believes the figures they spout at elections/referendums. However this time some of them were right.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well that's the governments prerogative. Still the 48% still have a voice and are entitled to use it. The vote entitles, obliges even, the government to go ahead with Brexit but it doesn't mean the 48% have to be quiet.

I think it's a mistake the way the Government seem to have chosen a very confrontational approach to those who lost the referendum as if it were a landslide. They seemed to delight in stirring the worst fears of Remainers such as refusing to guarantee the status of EU workers which, since they almost certainly will be ok, was just pointlessly provocative.

There will be hard Remainers that will stop at nothing but that's not the bulk of the 48%. Many are normal people with concerns about their jobs, pensions and so on. They should be brought on board and not dismissed as Remoaners. I believe most people Brexit or Remain are very similar and want similar things, the ideologues are a minority in both camps.

We've seen in Scotland what happens when you make the issue all-or-nothing and I think May's conference speech was the equivalent of Cameron's speech the morning after the Independence vote. A spurned opportunity to call for a consensus in favor of appeasing to your base.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There is debating Damien, but having a debate, should not allow people who have real issues accepting the result, to apply prejudice and lay subtle insults or digs at the brexiteers, or being directly or indirectly provocative or offensive. I won't put up with it, not on this forum, nor will I accept these wild views that the leave voters some how made a mistake. Some may feel that they had, that's ok but let them admit that. I won't have anyone telling me or dictating to me, that I made a mistake, or I had no idea what I was doing. Clue: I did and I still do and I still do not regret it, at all-end of.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You can attempt to de-legitimise the result any way you like, it won't alter reality. Democracy is what it is; imperfect, but better than any other means of government we have yet devised. A result derived by a tried and tested means, with a solid turnout (love the way you try to co-opt everyone who didn't vote as a disenfranchised remainer, by the way), leading to a clear majority result.

And as a hard-line remainer who is clearly in deep denial, I don't think I'll be paying too much attention to your claims to know what those of us who voted leave are thinking or feeling right now.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

l respect totally the Brexit decision of the electorate as that is how it is but if some and l say some Brexiteer's think we should all keep quiet and go into a little dark corner and not debate rationally the significant consequences of the Brexit decision and what it all entails for all our futures then that is rather disappointing.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Theresa May is one of the 48%. If she wasn't leading the country I'm not sure who from the Brexit side of Government would step into her shoes.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

This is not about stifling the conversation or insisting the remain side stays silent, I have not done anything to suggest or change this. But what I am not going to put up with is people being derogatory towards the brexiteers, that's what I am going on about. So no need to be disappointed.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Perhaps that has to work both ways, with derogatory names like 'remoaners' being deemed inappropriate as well, as well as calling people 'traitors' if they don't fully subscribe to others' views?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There seems to be a lot of anger on here, manly from people trying to convince themselves mostly that they made the right choice.

The 'hard Brexit' route we seem to be hell bent on is burying heads in the sand even more. The figures for the decision don't add up, heart has ruled the head for many.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't consider the term 'remoaner' inappropriate, it's a descriptive term, not necessarily derogatory or offensive, to insult, is not implied here nor do I see any obvious malice and clearly, this must be the case when I have noticed a few people, on the remain side, have added it to the user titles.

Just out of interest, I have checked if there is a definition of Remoaner yet... It's been added to the Urban dictionary, it comes up with the following:-

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=remoaner

It's just like when someone is constantly not happy about something, they are classed as a moaner, again, to insult is not implied, i.e no malice intention.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Whether people have made the right choice or the wrong choice Mick and Hugh's point is that it is important that both sides of the divide remain civil to each other and don't start to throw derogatory comments at each other and debate things in a rational adult debating way.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's me though and it's meant to be ironic as I am not really one for caring if people call me a Remoaner or Traitor. ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

In lighter news, Brexit could block a reunion of The Smiths!
http://www.theweek.co.uk/brexit/6546...r-eu-nationals

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Check out the descriptive terms numbered 1 - 6 for Remoaner, in my previous post, if you strongly feel any of those apply to you, everything stays as is (optionally), but if none of those apply, you're not really a Remoaner.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That brings back a few memories from a long time ago.:Yikes::eeek:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Maybe Dave C could fill in as he's not up to much.
"I promised a referendum and I got a referendum and heaven knows I'm miserable now..."

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

In fairness to Dave, his Smiths fave is This Charming Man. https://www.theguardian.com/music/mu...loyd-favourite

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Angela Merkel's top economic advisors tell her to STOP BREXIT claiming it ISN'T done deal

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ain-leaving-EU

The German Chancellor Angela Merkel was handed a report on Wednesday by her top economic advisers urging her and other European politicians to block Britain from exiting - despite the country’s referendum result.

In a move which Brexiteers will see as outrageous meddling in the June 23 referendum result for Britain to exit the EU, the German Council of Economic Experts also warned that, in its view, leaving the bloc was not a done deal.

The annual report said the European Union will not be better off without Britain.

It stated: “The German Council of Economic Experts calls for constructive negotiations to prevent an exit, or at the least to come to an agreement that minimizes the damage on both sides.”

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

They can say what they want us leaving the EU is a done deal and the government has confirmed that, what it shows is that certain germans do support a balanced settlement between the UK and the EU a view that isn't only in Germany. I know it's the in thing to talk down the UK and get all enthusiastic about any potential bad economic news but the UK's bargaining position is stronger then many realise and the government is aware of that hence the tough rhetoric. They will be interesting negotiations with sabre rattling on both sides for the first twelve months the final agreement will be finalised in the second year.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Exactly Rizzy. What I can't understand about the remoaners is the continuous harping of about the present economic downturn and the forecasts for next year.

Even the most ardent Brexiter has said from the beginning that they (myself included) expected this in the short term and it was a price we were prepared to pay to rid this country of the EU shackles.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If you keep using the toddler name calling, you will just keep winding people up .. this applies to both sides.

If you can't debate without resorting to childish names then why bother?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Even if you're not one you still get labeled it anyway or a remainiac, I didn't think we did this childish nonsense here anyway

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...24&postcount=3

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...medium=twitter

Personally I think that's a bit unpatriotic. Why does he want the national anthem at the end of the day when no one will be watching? We should have the national anthem played on the hour, every hour, across television.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

https://youtu.be/CmSL41CAR6o

Go to bed, spotty :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I hope you stood up whilst that was playing. I did.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm not a remoaner (and like others I don't think it's a constructive term) but the current economic situation is unique. So it's interesting to observe the effects on the economy.

Many have said that there will be no bad effects "I've seen nothing rise in price so it's not happening" is one comment I've heard. Others have said a recession is highly likely. Only this week, Crispin Odey, a leave campaigner said this.
So documenting changes in the economy, both good and bad helps us to understand the situation better.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The Government has lost the case on Article 50: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/s...18615322820608

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Gosh, so an election looks more likely then.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

March deadline might be a bit close too although there is still a possible appeal.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Overtime for the lawyers. May's Conservative Conference promises like all-Academy schools and workers on company boards and now article 50 seem to be facing extreme difficulties.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If they appeal and lose, then it goes to Parliament. What then? If sufficient MPs vote against, directly overruling their constituents in many cases, May's next obvious move is to call an election. I wouldn't fancy being a Labour MP under those circumstances, and there might be one or two nervous arch-Europhile Tories as well.

A general election in early 2017 would be an absolute gift to UKIP under Paul Nuttall also.

No, I think if they find themselves faced with the reality of overturning Brexit, most MPs will find their instinct for self preservation kicking in.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Not such a done deal now is it......

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Brexiteers are touchingly terrified of the Parliamentary sovereignty they supposedly champion

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

As Boris Johnson said last night at The Spectator Awards, "Brexit will be a Titanic success"

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Who's terrified?

Parliamentarians represent us, and if we're not happy with their representations we replace them. They know this.

I think we may find, in the coming weeks, that a lot of MPs who were happy to blow hard about the necessity of a vote as long as they thought they weren't actually going to get one, will start moderating their tone.

Remainers are still touchingly unaware that they were in a minority last June and, according to polls, still are.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The worry about Parliament is that they'll want details of the plan before voting to issue Article 50 which the Government wanted to do. Most people don't think they'll vote it down.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Parliament may vote according to what their local constituents want. In my area it is very pro remain so does my MP vote to the country or to his constituents? Have some people changed their minds now we have a downturn in economy (that may have happened anyway)?

I pity the poor MP's who are now going to get flooded with letters from both sides to vote their way. Do they vote with the nation or with their area or with their own beliefs or party line?

Personally I think they should follow the national will in this but then I support leaving.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

National will: Brexit.
Most MPs constituencies: Brexit.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Will be interesting to see how this impacts the Richmond by-election. Zac Goldsmith is popular with his constituents but 72% of them voted to remain in the EU.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's why they'll probably have an early general election first, then they can vote against their constituents without fear.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well the gov has confirmed it will appeal to the Supreme Court so we'll have to see what happens next.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The Government should just call the vote imo.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't think they can, not now the question is open. A court ruling limiting the Royal Prerogative isn't something the government can just leave halfway up the court system. The prerogative is, essentially, the means by which the British government gets away with doing anything that hasn't been explicitly authorised by Parliament. If it's a critical constitutional issue - and it is - then it has to be pursued to the end. The outcome is likely to be cited in any and every future challenge to the boundary between the powers of Crown and Parliament so it has to be settled decisively now.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If only it were that simple.

The problem is that Parliament want to debate the strategy etc relating to A50 thereby weaking our hand in any Brexit negotiations, that's why it was taken to court.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

For timeliness, can't they do both - appeal and call the vote? (They'll win the vote so what have they got to lose? They've already lost face with this decision today.)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

For all those who've been banging on about how May needs to get on with this, well this decision isn't going to help and we all know what uncertainty results in. I think we're in danger of undermining the UK's interests to such an extent that the result is the worst of both worlds as opposed to the best. I dare say, also, that there'll be those who take perverse 'satisfaction' from the fact that they helped make it happen because from the midst of the resulting economic damage they'll be able to whine on about how 'we told you so'...

The fact is that what's going on right now is making the UK appear weak to the very people we need to be negotiating with and who from anyone reading this would opt for that approach in their own personal or business lives I wonder?... :shrug: