Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

If the EU goes into a fishing agreement with another country on the basis they are going to respect the rights of that country over the fish, they then can't say "It may be your waters, but it's not your fish". There is no longer "good faith" that the EU will follow the agreement.
You can't in "good faith" come to an agreement over rights you don't consider exist in the first place.

This is actually what the term means ĺhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith_(law)

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36048898)

Exactly.

And Covid has put the EU and the UK into the GDP doldrums and there is no sign that having a trade deal with the EU right now would lead to any better a long term outcome since everything is stagnant. So we rebuild in competition with the EU, which we always were anyway.

With integrated global supply chains, you can't compete in sectors like car manufacturing with just a market of 64m. Let's not go back to the government picking and subsidising winners as Cummings and Corbyn like. Instead, let's agree to a level playing field with the EU and kick socialism into touch.

OLD BOY

07-09-2020 16:00

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36048929)

Repeating it doesn’t make it so - can you highlight which part of the WA supports your proposition, please?

From the EU Commission

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1599483764

Well, if they give us a free trade deal, we'll keep the treaty.

The political declaration stated clearly that both sides wanted a free trade deal. So where is it?

No deal, no treaty. No cake and eat it, as they say.

And for good measure, ze clock eez ticking.

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36048937)

With integrated global supply chains, you can't compete in sectors like car manufacturing with just a market of 64m. Let's not go back to the government picking and subsidising winners as Cummings and Corbyn like. Instead, let's agree to a level playing field with the EU and kick socialism into touch.

Er, let's not!

jonbxx

07-09-2020 16:16

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36048941)

I believe this paragraph (paragraph 17 of the political declaration is a major sticking point;

Quote:

Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic
interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition,
encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field. The precise nature of
commitments should be commensurate with the scope and depth of the future relationship
and the economic connectedness of the Parties.

This basically says no level playing field, no deal

Sephiroth

07-09-2020 16:50

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

So no deal it is. Much better than a bad deal that ties our hands behind our backs.

papa smurf

07-09-2020 17:00

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36048945)

So no deal it is. Much better than a bad deal that ties our hands behind our backs.

Gets my vote :tu:

OLD BOY

07-09-2020 17:25

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36048945)

So no deal it is. Much better than a bad deal that ties our hands behind our backs.

Agreed. What is the point of gaining our own sovereignty and freedom to trade how we want, only to throw away those freedoms immediately and be enslaved forever to the EU, with no say in the legislation they introduce?

How does that not sound like a bad deal to anyone on this forum?

Hugh	07-09-2020 18:41

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Welll, when you put it so even-handedly and unemotionally, using such concise and logical reasoning, how can anyone disagree?

OLD BOY

07-09-2020 18:52

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36048960)

Welll, when you put it so even-handedly and unemotionally, using such concise and logical reasoning, how can anyone disagree?

Sounds simple enough to me. Brexit is Brexit. What's not to understand?

1andrew1

07-09-2020 18:56

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36048945)

So no deal it is. Much better than a bad deal that ties our hands behind our backs.

No level playing field lets socialism in through the front door. You've let Margaret Thatcher's legacy and British business down by endorsing such views.

Sephiroth

07-09-2020 19:07

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36048960)

Welll, when you put it so even-handedly and unemotionally, using such concise and logical reasoning, how can anyone disagree?

Your sarcasm adds nothing to the debate.

OB and I have correctly analysed the situation and just because you are a Remainer who doesn't like what's happening, you should show more respect.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36048964)

No level playing field lets socialism in through the front door. You've let Margaret Thatcher's legacy and British business down by endorsing such views.

That's a stretch, Andrew.

You well know that the EU wants to tie our hands - to punish us as well. We cannot agree to that. Remember, we have left the EU.

As a Brit, you should be looking forward as to how we can make the best from this, especially as we must build away from Covid at the same time as the EU but without having to consult another 27 countries.

jonbxx

07-09-2020 19:07

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

So if the government agreed to paragraph 17 of the political declaration and signed off on it but had no intention of following through, does the 'good faith' test apply on our side?

Surely it would be simpler to simply say 'see ya' and walk off into the sunset and not pay Sir David Frost et al travel expenses? The fact that the government is negotiating suggest, despite what Boris Johnson says, that they do want a deal

1andrew1

07-09-2020 19:07

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36048966)

Your sarcasm adds nothing to the debate.

OB and I have correctly analysed the situation and just because you are a Remainer who doesn't like what's happening, you should show more respect.

I'm not sure we're allowed to mark our own tests on this forum. For better or worse, we mark one another's

Sephiroth

07-09-2020 19:42

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36048968)

Some merit in what you say.

Still, we shouldn't give in to EU bullying.

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36048969)

I'm not sure we're allowed to mark our own tests on this forum. For better or worse, we mark one another's

For worse in the case of Remainers.

Anyway, I was marking Hugh who specialises in sarcasm without contributing much to the debate itself.

Damien

07-09-2020 21:18

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

I said it before that the nature of how politics is in this country and with what was promised means the U.K Government isn't in a position to make concessions. It was true a year ago and it's in true today. Everything has been ramped up to such a level than any concession towards the EU would be portrayed as a betrayal.

Boris Johnson and the Government have tried for an EU deal entirely on our terms and it isn't working.

People will cheer this round but the same problem with crop up with any other trade deal.

1andrew1

07-09-2020 21:39

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36048983)

At the end of the day, we need a close trade deal with the EU. If BoJo's government won't make it then Sunak's or Sir Keir's will. The forces of geoeconomics can't be overcome by empty slogans.

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